john ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes:

> On 15/04/2024 13:37, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>> nick <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:
>>
>>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14/04/2024 20:43, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> ...on second toughts, I might just plump for "should have known
>>>>> better." He called Lake Superior "Gitche Gumee" that could be twice in
>>>>> one poem that accuracy has been sacrificed for art.
>>>>> Mind you, Canadian legend Gordon Lightfoot did exactly the same in
>>>>> The
>>>>> Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but I can forgive him for that because
>>>>> I think it's one of the best songs he ever wrote and all the better
>>>>> for breaking nearly all the rules of songwriting.
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
>>>>> Nick
>>>
>>>> https://xkcd.com/2910/
>>>
>>> BTN for Randall Munroe!
>> I'm referring this upstairs to establish what you and Nick are on
>> about.
>> Rosie
>
> As BTM Emeritus (and without wishing to undermine the present
> incumbent or to suggest any notion that I might be regarde as
> "uostairs (and cetainly not in the bedroom of the window dresser from
> Bourne and Hollingsworth (Arcane References R Us))) (That's enough
> parentheses, Ed) Might I venture that if it is so arcane that you need
> to refer it to a higher authority, even with all your knowledge,
> erudition and worldly experience, then without an extremely good
> explanation it's unlikely to offend enough Aunt Ednas to qualify as
> BaD Taste. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.

Please, no interfering with the Third Umpire. That's also me by the way,
in my investigative capacity and also while I go out for some cat food
and loo rolls and then have a nap. I'm not as young as I was – I'm
nearly 70 – and I find an afternoon nap therapeutic.

Anyway, I'm awake now, and this is my longer-than-usual ruling.

The name Randall Munroe wasn't fully familiar to me, but the xkcd online
comic is, and I have often found it amusing and on the nail. I have
ascertained that Mr Munroe is the creator of xkcd. I examined the item
alleged to be the source of the Bad Taste, but found I could not reach a
conclusion either way without knowing more about Gordon Lightfoot's song.

I know Gordon Lightfoot by name but I have to say, without prejudice, that
to me he has always been the 'other' Canadian singer-songwriter as
opposed to Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young or Robbie Robertson
and I am unfamiliar with his œuvre. So I listened to the song a couple
of times and looked into the background story. I was then able to make a ruling.

In the matter of Mr Lightfoot, I find that his song The Wreck of the
Hesperus¹, sorry, the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, was enjoyable but
contains errors of fact the writer must have known were potentially
defamatory since no cause of the wreck had been established when he
allowed the song to be broadcast even as the families of the dead were
in mourning. There may have been a case for a BTN if one had been raised
but I'd have had to have been in a very peculiar mood to allow it. But
one wasn't. And that was another country and besides the wench is
dead. As is Gordon Lightfoot, and I am using this ruling to establish,
without binding my successors, that during my tenure as BTM I will not
be allowing BTNs against deceased people. Not even Nigel Pargetter.

In the matter of Mr Munroe, I found his comic rather funny in the
circumstances. It was a well-aimed barb but not an undeserved one, and
was not in my view either in Bad Taste or Mere Vulgarity. I therefore
clear Mr Munroe and turn down the nomination.

Who's have thought that being BTN could be such an afternoon's
education!

Rosie

¹ By HW Longfellow of course, which is where we came in although set on
the coast of Maine rather than the shores of Gitche-Goomee (which
Lightfoot seems to equate, incorrectly, with Lake Superior while the
Onondaga inhabited what is now Central and Western New York on the
southern shore of Lake Ontario) . I think Longfellow should have stuck
with what he knew instead of wading blindly and uninvited into the ways
of the Onondaga poeple of the Iroquois Confederacy, of which he knew
sod all.

On 15-Apr-24 13:55, john ashby wrote:
> On 15/04/2024 13:37, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>> nick <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:
>>
>>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14/04/2024 20:43, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> ...on second toughts, I might just plump for "should have known
>>>>> better." He called Lake Superior "Gitche Gumee" that could be twice in
>>>>> one poem that accuracy has been sacrificed for art.
>>>>> Mind you, Canadian legend Gordon Lightfoot did exactly the same in
>>>>> The
>>>>> Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but I can forgive him for that because
>>>>> I think it's one of the best songs he ever wrote and all the better
>>>>> for breaking nearly all the rules of songwriting.
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
>>>>> Nick
>>>
>>>> https://xkcd.com/2910/
>>>
>>> BTN for Randall Munroe!
>>
>> I'm referring this upstairs to establish what you and Nick are on about.
>>
>> Rosie
>
> As BTM Emeritus (and without wishing to undermine the present incumbent
> or to suggest any notion that I might be regarde as "uostairs (and
> cetainly not in the bedroom of the window dresser from Bourne and
> Hollingsworth (Arcane References R Us))) (That's enough parentheses, Ed)
> Might I venture that if it is so arcane that you need to refer it to a
> higher authority, even with all your knowledge, erudition and worldly
> experience, then without an extremely good explanation it's unlikely to
> offend enough Aunt Ednas to qualify as BaD Taste. Your mileage may (and
> probably will) vary.

Verging on BUMRA and BURMA in a single post! Well done.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 15/04/2024 18:26, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
> john ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On 15/04/2024 13:37, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>>> nick <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/04/2024 20:43, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> ...on second toughts, I might just plump for "should have known
>>>>>> better." He called Lake Superior "Gitche Gumee" that could be twice in
>>>>>> one poem that accuracy has been sacrificed for art.
>>>>>> Mind you, Canadian legend Gordon Lightfoot did exactly the same in
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but I can forgive him for that because
>>>>>> I think it's one of the best songs he ever wrote and all the better
>>>>>> for breaking nearly all the rules of songwriting.
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>> https://xkcd.com/2910/
>>>>
>>>> BTN for Randall Munroe!
>>> I'm referring this upstairs to establish what you and Nick are on
>>> about.
>>> Rosie
>>
>> As BTM Emeritus (and without wishing to undermine the present
>> incumbent or to suggest any notion that I might be regarde as
>> "uostairs (and cetainly not in the bedroom of the window dresser from
>> Bourne and Hollingsworth (Arcane References R Us))) (That's enough
>> parentheses, Ed) Might I venture that if it is so arcane that you need
>> to refer it to a higher authority, even with all your knowledge,
>> erudition and worldly experience, then without an extremely good
>> explanation it's unlikely to offend enough Aunt Ednas to qualify as
>> BaD Taste. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.
>
> Please, no interfering with the Third Umpire. That's also me by the way,
> in my investigative capacity and also while I go out for some cat food
> and loo rolls and then have a nap. I'm not as young as I was – I'm
> nearly 70 – and I find an afternoon nap therapeutic.
>
> Anyway, I'm awake now, and this is my longer-than-usual ruling.
>
> The name Randall Munroe wasn't fully familiar to me, but the xkcd online
> comic is, and I have often found it amusing and on the nail. I have
> ascertained that Mr Munroe is the creator of xkcd. I examined the item
> alleged to be the source of the Bad Taste, but found I could not reach a
> conclusion either way without knowing more about Gordon Lightfoot's song.
>
> I know Gordon Lightfoot by name but I have to say, without prejudice, that
> to me he has always been the 'other' Canadian singer-songwriter as
> opposed to Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young or Robbie Robertson
> and I am unfamiliar with his œuvre. So I listened to the song a couple
> of times and looked into the background story. I was then able to make a ruling.
>
> In the matter of Mr Lightfoot, I find that his song The Wreck of the
> Hesperus¹, sorry, the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, was enjoyable but
> contains errors of fact the writer must have known were potentially
> defamatory since no cause of the wreck had been established when he
> allowed the song to be broadcast even as the families of the dead were
> in mourning. There may have been a case for a BTN if one had been raised
> but I'd have had to have been in a very peculiar mood to allow it. But
> one wasn't. And that was another country and besides the wench is
> dead. As is Gordon Lightfoot, and I am using this ruling to establish,
> without binding my successors, that during my tenure as BTM I will not
> be allowing BTNs against deceased people. Not even Nigel Pargetter.
>
> In the matter of Mr Munroe, I found his comic rather funny in the
> circumstances. It was a well-aimed barb but not an undeserved one, and
> was not in my view either in Bad Taste or Mere Vulgarity. I therefore
> clear Mr Munroe and turn down the nomination.
>
> Who's have thought that being BTN could be such an afternoon's
> education!
>
> Rosie
>
>
> ¹ By HW Longfellow of course, which is where we came in although set on
> the coast of Maine rather than the shores of Gitche-Goomee (which
> Lightfoot seems to equate, incorrectly, with Lake Superior while the
> Onondaga inhabited what is now Central and Western New York on the
> southern shore of Lake Ontario) . I think Longfellow should have stuck
> with what he knew instead of wading blindly and uninvited into the ways
> of the Onondaga poeple of the Iroquois Confederacy, of which he knew
> sod all.
>

Every day is a school day.

john

On 15/04/2024 11:07, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> On 15/04/2024 09:12, Jane Vernon wrote:
>> On 14/04/2024 19:39, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>>> Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fair enough. But in the context of a quiz where questions are being
>>>>> read
>>>>> out it helps to use a pronunciation most people can understand.
>>>>> (I've just
>>>>> remembered Anne Robinson on 15-to-1 asking a question about
>>>>> "Zaddock" the
>>>>> priest.)
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't Rob the keen quizzer who once used to post here?
>>>
>>> He's got an OBE now, he's above that sort of thing these days!
>>>
>>
>> Rob Linham has?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, a decade ago, for services to human rights policy
>
> <https://www.gov.uk/government/people/rob-linham>
>

Thank you, that's very interesting.

--
Jane
The Amethyst Artist
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 18:26:25 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
<rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> wrote:

>john ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On 15/04/2024 13:37, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>>> nick <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/04/2024 20:43, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> ...on second toughts, I might just plump for "should have known
>>>>>> better." He called Lake Superior "Gitche Gumee" that could be twice in
>>>>>> one poem that accuracy has been sacrificed for art.
>>>>>> Mind you, Canadian legend Gordon Lightfoot did exactly the same in
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but I can forgive him for that because
>>>>>> I think it's one of the best songs he ever wrote and all the better
>>>>>> for breaking nearly all the rules of songwriting.
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>> https://xkcd.com/2910/
>>>>
>>>> BTN for Randall Munroe!
>>> I'm referring this upstairs to establish what you and Nick are on
>>> about.
>>> Rosie
>>
>> As BTM Emeritus (and without wishing to undermine the present
>> incumbent or to suggest any notion that I might be regarde as
>> "uostairs (and cetainly not in the bedroom of the window dresser from
>> Bourne and Hollingsworth (Arcane References R Us))) (That's enough
>> parentheses, Ed) Might I venture that if it is so arcane that you need
>> to refer it to a higher authority, even with all your knowledge,
>> erudition and worldly experience, then without an extremely good
>> explanation it's unlikely to offend enough Aunt Ednas to qualify as
>> BaD Taste. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.
>
>Please, no interfering with the Third Umpire. That's also me by the way,
>in my investigative capacity and also while I go out for some cat food
>and loo rolls and then have a nap. I'm not as young as I was – I'm
>nearly 70 – and I find an afternoon nap therapeutic.
>
>Anyway, I'm awake now, and this is my longer-than-usual ruling.
>
>The name Randall Munroe wasn't fully familiar to me, but the xkcd online
>comic is, and I have often found it amusing and on the nail. I have
>ascertained that Mr Munroe is the creator of xkcd. I examined the item
>alleged to be the source of the Bad Taste, but found I could not reach a
>conclusion either way without knowing more about Gordon Lightfoot's song.
>
>I know Gordon Lightfoot by name but I have to say, without prejudice, that
>to me he has always been the 'other' Canadian singer-songwriter as
>opposed to Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young or Robbie Robertson
>and I am unfamiliar with his œuvre. So I listened to the song a couple
>of times and looked into the background story. I was then able to make a ruling.
>
>In the matter of Mr Lightfoot, I find that his song The Wreck of the
>Hesperus¹, sorry, the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, was enjoyable but
>contains errors of fact the writer must have known were potentially
>defamatory since no cause of the wreck had been established when he
>allowed the song to be broadcast even as the families of the dead were
>in mourning. There may have been a case for a BTN if one had been raised
>but I'd have had to have been in a very peculiar mood to allow it. But
>one wasn't. And that was another country and besides the wench is
>dead. As is Gordon Lightfoot, and I am using this ruling to establish,
>without binding my successors, that during my tenure as BTM I will not
>be allowing BTNs against deceased people. Not even Nigel Pargetter.
>
>In the matter of Mr Munroe, I found his comic rather funny in the
>circumstances. It was a well-aimed barb but not an undeserved one, and
>was not in my view either in Bad Taste or Mere Vulgarity. I therefore
>clear Mr Munroe and turn down the nomination.
>
>Who's have thought that being BTN could be such an afternoon's
>education!
>
>Rosie
>
>
>¹ By HW Longfellow of course, which is where we came in although set on
>the coast of Maine rather than the shores of Gitche-Goomee (which
>Lightfoot seems to equate, incorrectly, with Lake Superior while the
>Onondaga inhabited what is now Central and Western New York on the
>southern shore of Lake Ontario) . I think Longfellow should have stuck
>with what he knew instead of wading blindly and uninvited into the ways
>of the Onondaga poeple of the Iroquois Confederacy, of which he knew
>sod all.

If this doesn't qualify as the longest BTN refusal in umratic history
then it certainly ought to qualify as one of the most interesting and
entertaining. Thank you, Rosie, I enjoyed that.

Nick

Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:

> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 18:26:25 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
> <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>john ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 15/04/2024 13:37, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
>>>> nick <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14/04/2024 20:43, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...on second toughts, I might just plump for "should have known
>>>>>>> better." He called Lake Superior "Gitche Gumee" that could be twice in
>>>>>>> one poem that accuracy has been sacrificed for art.
>>>>>>> Mind you, Canadian legend Gordon Lightfoot did exactly the same in
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but I can forgive him for that because
>>>>>>> I think it's one of the best songs he ever wrote and all the better
>>>>>>> for breaking nearly all the rules of songwriting.
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://xkcd.com/2910/
>>>>>
>>>>> BTN for Randall Munroe!
>>>> I'm referring this upstairs to establish what you and Nick are on
>>>> about.
>>>> Rosie
>>>
>>> As BTM Emeritus (and without wishing to undermine the present
>>> incumbent or to suggest any notion that I might be regarde as
>>> "uostairs (and cetainly not in the bedroom of the window dresser from
>>> Bourne and Hollingsworth (Arcane References R Us))) (That's enough
>>> parentheses, Ed) Might I venture that if it is so arcane that you need
>>> to refer it to a higher authority, even with all your knowledge,
>>> erudition and worldly experience, then without an extremely good
>>> explanation it's unlikely to offend enough Aunt Ednas to qualify as
>>> BaD Taste. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.
>>
>>Please, no interfering with the Third Umpire. That's also me by the way,
>>in my investigative capacity and also while I go out for some cat food
>>and loo rolls and then have a nap. I'm not as young as I was – I'm
>>nearly 70 – and I find an afternoon nap therapeutic.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm awake now, and this is my longer-than-usual ruling.
>>
>>The name Randall Munroe wasn't fully familiar to me, but the xkcd online
>>comic is, and I have often found it amusing and on the nail. I have
>>ascertained that Mr Munroe is the creator of xkcd. I examined the item
>>alleged to be the source of the Bad Taste, but found I could not reach a
>>conclusion either way without knowing more about Gordon Lightfoot's song.
>>
>>I know Gordon Lightfoot by name but I have to say, without prejudice, that
>>to me he has always been the 'other' Canadian singer-songwriter as
>>opposed to Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young or Robbie Robertson
>>and I am unfamiliar with his œuvre. So I listened to the song a couple
>>of times and looked into the background story. I was then able to
>> make a ruling.
>>
>>In the matter of Mr Lightfoot, I find that his song The Wreck of the
>>Hesperus¹, sorry, the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, was enjoyable but
>>contains errors of fact the writer must have known were potentially
>>defamatory since no cause of the wreck had been established when he
>>allowed the song to be broadcast even as the families of the dead were
>>in mourning. There may have been a case for a BTN if one had been raised
>>but I'd have had to have been in a very peculiar mood to allow it. But
>>one wasn't. And that was another country and besides the wench is
>>dead. As is Gordon Lightfoot, and I am using this ruling to establish,
>>without binding my successors, that during my tenure as BTM I will not
>>be allowing BTNs against deceased people. Not even Nigel Pargetter.
>>
>>In the matter of Mr Munroe, I found his comic rather funny in the
>>circumstances. It was a well-aimed barb but not an undeserved one, and
>>was not in my view either in Bad Taste or Mere Vulgarity. I therefore
>>clear Mr Munroe and turn down the nomination.
>>
>>Who's have thought that being BTN could be such an afternoon's
>>education!
>>
>>Rosie
>>
>>
>>¹ By HW Longfellow of course, which is where we came in although set on
>>the coast of Maine rather than the shores of Gitche-Goomee (which
>>Lightfoot seems to equate, incorrectly, with Lake Superior while the
>>Onondaga inhabited what is now Central and Western New York on the
>>southern shore of Lake Ontario) . I think Longfellow should have stuck
>>with what he knew instead of wading blindly and uninvited into the ways
>>of the Onondaga poeple of the Iroquois Confederacy, of which he knew
>>sod all.
>
> If this doesn't qualify as the longest BTN refusal in umratic history
> then it certainly ought to qualify as one of the most interesting and
> entertaining. Thank you, Rosie, I enjoyed that.

Thank you Nick.

Rosie