With Anderson and Robinson both missing, I expected Woakes
to be a cert, especially given his record at Lords, but theyve gone
for Worcesters Tongue instead, rather a surprise. Some websites
have him as fast, but I doubt hes near Woods pace or much
quicker than RFM. Hes got a resonable FC record, much punctuated
by injury layoffs, but 11 wkts at 40+ this season, its still quite a surprise
for him and everyone else. Hve to hope no more injuries becos theyve
really only got 4 bowlers, with stokes knee still a problem. Quite a long
tail without Woakes, even if they have Jonny at 7.

England XI to face Ireland: Ben Duckett, Zak Crawley, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Stuart Broad, Matthew Potts, Josh Tongue, Jack Leach

mike

On Tue, 30 May 2023 12:40:09 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>Zak Crawley,

Hahahaha, I just remembered (or maybe dreamed) that last time against
Ireland Leach opened the batting and got nearly 100.
I'll have to check that.

No pressure Zak..

max.it

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 5:40:10 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> England XI to face Ireland: Ben Duckett, Zak Crawley, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Stuart Broad, Matthew Potts, Josh Tongue, Jack Leach

RH will be very happy with this squad.

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:12:02 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 5:40:10 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> > England XI to face Ireland: Ben Duckett, Zak Crawley, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Stuart Broad, Matthew Potts, Josh Tongue, Jack Leach
> RH will be very happy with this squad.

Nope. Unless he is not fully fit I find the exclusion of Woakes baffling ..... RH

In message <9ad35401-5bb1-4c66-a59a-44599c948e35n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>With Anderson and Robinson both missing, I expected Woakes
>to be a cert, especially given his record at Lords, but theyve gone
>for Worcesters Tongue instead, rather a surprise. Some websites
>have him as fast, but I doubt hes near Woods pace or much
>quicker than RFM.

Probably rather quicker than Broad or Potts, though, so he may provide
more variety than Woakes would have done. Also they no doubt want to
have a look at him in case he's needed for the Ashes at some stage.

> Hes got a resonable FC record, much punctuated
>by injury layoffs, but 11 wkts at 40+ this season, its still quite a surprise
>for him and everyone else. Hve to hope no more injuries becos theyve
>really only got 4 bowlers, with stokes knee still a problem. Quite a long
>tail without Woakes, even if they have Jonny at 7.
>
>England XI to face Ireland: Ben Duckett, Zak Crawley, Ollie Pope, Joe
>Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Stuart
>Broad, Matthew Potts, Josh Tongue, Jack Leach
>
>mike
>

Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.

I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
done their job and we're 560 all out, but some will no doubt blame
bat-waving for us not getting 600.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39 PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
> done their job and we're 560 all out,

i wouldnt underestimate the irish. they suffered in the bangles but
last time england was all out b4 lunch 1st day and the irish led by
120 on 1st innings.

mike

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
>
>i wouldnt underestimate the irish. they suffered in the bangles but
>last time england was all out b4 lunch 1st day and the irish led by
>120 on 1st innings.
>

It doesn't matter who the opponents are. I can stand narrowly failing
to reach 600 against Australia.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
>
>i wouldnt underestimate the irish. they suffered in the bangles but
>last time england was all out b4 lunch 1st day and the irish led by
>120 on 1st innings.

If the Irish manage a lead of 120 on first innings they're probably
going to cause the longest (re-)post about foreigners, bat-waving, the
superior technique of the batters of the 1950s, the brilliance of
their predecessors (none of whom can he possibly have seen play),
especially George Lohmann that has ever been spewed into this ng.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoatghsmuo0hk7bnvanf@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
>>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
>>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
>>> done their job and we're 560 all out,

560 all out seems quite possible, except that I can see Stokes declaring
at around tea-time tomorrow when they only have 450 on the board. (Which
may not go down well with those who have tickets for Sunday, who may see
little if any play if he declares eary.)

>>
>>i wouldnt underestimate the irish. they suffered in the bangles but
>>last time england was all out b4 lunch 1st day and the irish led by
>>120 on 1st innings.
>
>If the Irish manage a lead of 120 on first innings they're probably
>going to cause the longest (re-)post about foreigners, bat-waving, the
>superior technique of the batters of the 1950s, the brilliance of
>their predecessors (none of whom can he possibly have seen play),
>especially George Lohmann that has ever been spewed into this ng.

It looks as though Ireland will do well to reach a lead of 120 over
England even when their second innings runs are added on. Anyway it was
a highly entertaining day's play and a very satisfactory one for
England. Crawley neatly illustrated during his innings both why England
like him and why some of us are - shall we say - less keen.

As I'd missed some of Sky's live coverage, I decided to watch the BBC
highlights package as well. I was startled by how old Michael Vaughan
looked. He seems to have aged by about ten years over the last year or
two. Of course you don't need to be a genius to work out the probable
cause. (He also seemed to have a nasty case of laryngitis.)

Though the public stands looked to be 80-90% full, the Pavilion looked
to be half empty.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:26:53 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoa...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> >On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
> >>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
> >>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
> >>> done their job and we're 560 all out,

lets hope oz bat like the irish then they wont have to. Theyve got a good
platform for tomorrow, but the big Q will be what the 3 absentees do,
whove played no FC cricket at all til now. This is their only chance b4 the
ashes.

> Anyway it was
> a highly entertaining day's play and a very satisfactory one for
> England. Crawley neatly illustrated during his innings both why England
> like him and why some of us are - shall we say - less keen.

he is rather too careless to be an opener. i wonder if thats the highest
score he'll make this summer of tests. I think roy made 72 against
the irish and then little thereafter.

>
> As I'd missed some of Sky's live coverage, I decided to watch the BBC
> highlights package as well. I was startled by how old Michael Vaughan

prob look even older without his gooch/warne wig thing. actually i wondered
how tall isa really is, cos shes in heels but looks tiny. And she was once
the no1 bowler in the world bitd.

i felt sorry for JT, he got picked to bowl the short stuff, and hes not as
quick as joverton , whereas he looked as if he might be quite a decent RFM.
since he nearly gave up the game due to a long shoulder problem
which kept him on the sidelines for over a year [and is now controlled
by botox!], i fear he might be the next injury concern.

also as stokes still has a knee problem [kudos for the captaincy which
meant he didnt need to bow], i would have thought he'd be in the
slips and let 1 of the youngters like zak or potty do the boundary
chasing. Plus if he stood in the slips he would be able to better judge
reviews himself rather rely on others att. Broad and Bairstow always
want to review.

mike

In message <cB$MITBs6OekFw4d@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> writes
>As I'd missed some of Sky's live coverage, I decided to watch the BBC
>highlights package as well. I was startled by how old Michael Vaughan
>looked. He seems to have aged by about ten years over the last year or
>two. Of course you don't need to be a genius to work out the probable
>cause. (He also seemed to have a nasty case of laryngitis.)
>

Vaughan was at a football match last weekend and spent a lot of time
shouting, his voice hasn't recovered yet. Sir Cookie was also at a
football match with similar results. Conclusion seems to be to not go
to football matches.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 7:22:21 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:

> also as stokes still has a knee problem [kudos for the captaincy which
> meant he didnt need to bow], i would have thought he'd be in the
> slips and let 1 of the youngters like zak or potty do the boundary
> chasing.

depending on the exact problem he's got crouching in the slips might cause more problems for the knee than running

In message <e07bd396-4055-4e23-aff4-7c12b25e4962n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
<snip>
>actually i wondered how tall isa really is, cos shes in heels but looks
>tiny. And she was once the no1 bowler in the world bitd.

Even for a woman, she seems very small. It's amazing that she was such a
successful bowler. And she wasn't a spinner either.

>
>i felt sorry for JT, he got picked to bowl the short stuff,

Yes, it looked like they wanted to find out if he could do it, in case
they needed him to do it in an Ashes Test.

> and hes not as quick as joverton , whereas he looked as if he might be
>quite a decent RFM.

Yep. He seems to be on the cusp of RFM and RF. Definitely a bit quicker
than Broad is nowadays or than Anderson and Robinson, but a fair bit
down on Wood.

> since he nearly gave up the game due to a long shoulder problem which
>kept him on the sidelines for over a year [and is now controlled by
>botox!], i fear he might be the next injury concern.

Fingers crossed.
>
>also as stokes still has a knee problem [kudos for the captaincy which
>meant he didnt need to bow], i would have thought he'd be in the slips
>and let 1 of the youngters like zak or potty do the boundary chasing.
>Plus if he stood in the slips he would be able to better judge reviews
>himself rather rely on others att. Broad and Bairstow always want to
>review.

I imagine he wants to field closer to the bowlers to make talking to
them easier. And with a knee problem, maybe diving for a catch would be
problematic?
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 10:22:21 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:26:53 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoa...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> > >On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
> > >>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
> > >>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
> > >>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
> lets hope oz bat like the irish then they wont have to. Theyve got a good
> platform for tomorrow, but the big Q will be what the 3 absentees do,
> whove played no FC cricket at all til now. This is their only chance b4 the
> ashes.

thats if they get to bat at all. i dont wish to upset the irish but i hope
BS doesnt declare until tea tomorrow cos our lads need to do some
batting..

mike

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 10:22:21?PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:26:53?PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>> > In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoa...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>> > >On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> > >>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
>> > >>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
>> > >>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
>> > >>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
>> lets hope oz bat like the irish then they wont have to. Theyve got a good
>> platform for tomorrow, but the big Q will be what the 3 absentees do,
>> whove played no FC cricket at all til now. This is their only chance b4 the
>> ashes.
>
>thats if they get to bat at all. i dont wish to upset the irish but i hope
>BS doesnt declare until tea tomorrow cos our lads need to do some
>batting..
>
>mike

It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.

max.it

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 8:28:21 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 10:22:21?PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:26:53?PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> >> > In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoa...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> >> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> >> > >On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> >> > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
> >> > >>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
> >> > >>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> >Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
> >> > >>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
> >> > >>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
> >> lets hope oz bat like the irish then they wont have to. Theyve got a good
> >> platform for tomorrow, but the big Q will be what the 3 absentees do,
> >> whove played no FC cricket at all til now. This is their only chance b4 the
> >> ashes.
> >
> >thats if they get to bat at all. i dont wish to upset the irish but i hope
> >BS doesnt declare until tea tomorrow cos our lads need to do some
> >batting..
> >
> >mike
> It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.
>

IF he does in this match, england will have lost and it will be one of the greatest
victorys ever. Tector and tucker or someother will have to bat all day.

Even though its only 4 days, and even if stokes didnt want to bat
himself, he should have let brook and bairstow have a go.

mike

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 9:47:42 AM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <e07bd396-4055-4e23...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> <snip>
> >actually i wondered how tall isa really is, cos shes in heels but looks
> >tiny. And she was once the no1 bowler in the world bitd.
> Even for a woman, she seems very small. It's amazing that she was such a
> successful bowler. And she wasn't a spinner either.
> >

ismail of RSA might be even smaller, and shes pretty fierce when
she has the new ball.

mike

On 03 Jun 2023, mike wrote

> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 9:47:42 AM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <e07bd396-4055-4e23...@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> <snip>
>>> actually i wondered how tall isa really is, cos shes in heels
>>> but looks tiny. And she was once the no1 bowler in the world bitd.

>> Even for a woman, she seems very small. It's amazing that she was
>> such a successful bowler. And she wasn't a spinner either.
> ismail of RSA might be even smaller, and shes pretty fierce when
> she has the new ball.

Mr Google tells me Guha is 1.55 metres tall -- 5-foot-1 in old money --
while Ismail is 1.65 metres (5-foot-5).

--
Cheers, Harvey

On 03/06/2023 10:46, mike wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 8:28:21 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 10:22:21?PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:26:53?PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>>>>> In message <j2ah7ipbjrvrkmpoa...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>>>>> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>>>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:41:39?PM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:11:54 +0100, John Hall
>>>>>>>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rather a long tail. One hopes that Bairstow won't be left high and dry.
>>>>>>>> I won't mind the tail scoring 13 collectively if the top order have
>>>>>>>> done their job and we're 560 all out,
>>>> lets hope oz bat like the irish then they wont have to. Theyve got a good
>>>> platform for tomorrow, but the big Q will be what the 3 absentees do,
>>>> whove played no FC cricket at all til now. This is their only chance b4 the
>>>> ashes.
>>>
>>> thats if they get to bat at all. i dont wish to upset the irish but i hope
>>> BS doesnt declare until tea tomorrow cos our lads need to do some
>>> batting..
>>>
>>> mike
>> It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.
>>
>
> IF he does in this match, england will have lost and it will be one of the greatest
> victorys ever. Tector and tucker or someother will have to bat all day.
>
> Even though its only 4 days, and even if stokes didnt want to bat
> himself, he should have let brook and bairstow have a go.
As mentioned by Andy Zaltzman on TMS, Stokes is the first captain in
Test history not to bat, bowl or keep wicket in a match that his team won.

--
David North

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 12:38:53 PM UTC+1, HVS wrote:
> On 03 Jun 2023, mike wrote
> > On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 9:47:42 AM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> >> In message <e07bd396-4055-4e23...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >> <snip>
> >>> actually i wondered how tall isa really is, cos shes in heels
> >>> but looks tiny. And she was once the no1 bowler in the world bitd.
>
> >> Even for a woman, she seems very small. It's amazing that she was
> >> such a successful bowler. And she wasn't a spinner either.
>
> > ismail of RSA might be even smaller, and shes pretty fierce when
> > she has the new ball.
> Mr Google tells me Guha is 1.55 metres tall -- 5-foot-1 in old money --
> while Ismail is 1.65 metres (5-foot-5).
>
> --
> Cheers, Harvey

W£hat you really need to know is the pace she bowled at. Pressing hard again st 40 mph perhaps ? RH

In message <ke161iF265U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On 03/06/2023 10:46, mike wrote:
>> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 8:28:210 <snip>
>>> It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.
>>>
>> IF he does in this match, england will have lost and it will be one
>>of the greatest
>> victorys ever.

England could still have won by one wicket, and it would have been one
of the most exciting Tests ever!

>> Tector and tucker or someother will have to bat all day.

MacBrine and Adair made a pretty good attempt at it. It's a pity neither
got their hundred.

>> Even though its only 4 days, and even if stokes didnt want to bat
>> himself, he should have let brook and bairstow have a go.
>As mentioned by Andy Zaltzman on TMS, Stokes is the first captain in
>Test history not to bat, bowl or keep wicket in a match that his team
>won.
>
One of the more esoteric cricket stats.

A couple of thoughts: Today, when the pitch was pretty benign, the
fastest bowler (Tongue) was unsurprisingly the most effective. He's not
truly fast, though, and we must hope that Wood stays fit enough to play
a major part in the Ashes series, as otherwise I fear England will
struggle to dismiss Australia on good batting pitches. Hopefully Stone
will be fit soon enough to play a part in the last couple of Tests. The
alternative to pace on good pitches is a top quality wrist-spinner, but
of course we lack one of those, unless Baz and Ben pull a rabbit out of
a hat and Adil Rashid suddenly turns up in white England kit. (Rehan
Ahmed might be that bowler in a year or two, but not yet.)

Though I'm a Surrey fan and a great admirer of Pope, I thought that
Duckett should have won the Player of the Match award. I was mightily
impressed by him. He hardly played a false shot, whereas until he
reached 40 or so Pope was a bit more fallible..
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 9:13:49 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <ke161i...@mid.individual.net>, David North
> <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >On 03/06/2023 10:46, mike wrote:
> >> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 8:28:210 <snip>
> >>> It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.
> >>>
> >> IF he does in this match, england will have lost and it will be one
> >>of the greatest
> >> victorys ever.
> England could still have won by one wicket, and it would have been one
> of the most exciting Tests ever!
> >> Tector and tucker or someother will have to bat all day.
> MacBrine and Adair made a pretty good attempt at it. It's a pity neither
> got their hundred.
> >> Even though its only 4 days, and even if stokes didnt want to bat
> >> himself, he should have let brook and bairstow have a go.
> >As mentioned by Andy Zaltzman on TMS, Stokes is the first captain in
> >Test history not to bat, bowl or keep wicket in a match that his team
> >won.

more significantly when he took the catch off root he clearly jarred
his knee. wasnt a good sign. afterwards when isa was interviewing
him alongside vaughn and cook, he seemed very defensive, played
down the importance of the ashes, didnt answer any qs directly.
it seemed very awkward and was even uncomfortable to watch.
he claimed his knee was ok, was never planning to bowl in this
match but didnt say whether he could in the ashes. he turned
his arm over in the warmup b4 the start, well barely. perhaps he
can be a non playing captain like in the ryder cup. when asked
what they planned to do until the 1st test, he mentioned golf,
which seeing what happened to bairstow, seems a bit dodgy.

>
> A couple of thoughts: Today, when the pitch was pretty benign, the
> fastest bowler (Tongue) was unsurprisingly the most effective. He's not
> truly fast, though, and we must hope that Wood stays fit enough to play
> a major part in the Ashes series, as otherwise I fear England will
> struggle to dismiss Australia on good batting pitches. Hopefully Stone
> will be fit soon enough to play a part in the last couple of Tests. The
> alternative to pace on good pitches is a top quality wrist-spinner, but
> of course we lack one of those, unless Baz and Ben pull a rabbit out of
> a hat and Adil Rashid suddenly turns up in white England kit. (Rehan
> Ahmed might be that bowler in a year or two, but not yet.)

yes stokes almost said the same thing afterwards, on a good pitch,
they will struggle to dismiss the opp, whereas oz bowlers are generally
a yard faster [starc if fit much more prob] and lyon has greater control
and threat than leach.

i thought leach was disappointing. he spent the day aiming at the
rough outside leg but just got carted. so many runs went through the
leg side as they wernt any fielders in the deep there for much of the day,
they had a free hit. If stokes cant bowl, it means we only have 4 bowlers
plus root. i suspect oz will target leach, well they did in oz last time,
putting more the burden on our elderly seamers, that is if they all
play.

some other odd things today; i think broad took his wkts from the pavillion
end but started from the nursury end today, with potts when i was
expecting tongue after his wkts yesterday. and then root took the
2nd new ball.
>

mike

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 10:04:53 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:

> when i was
> expecting tongue after his wkts yesterday

i really should have phrased that differently.

mike

In message <180d0b81-e7d5-4389-aa8a-f0f2a3033786n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 9:13:490 >> In message <ke161i...@mid.individual.net>, David North
>> <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>> >On 03/06/2023 10:46, mike wrote:
>> >> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 8:28:210 <snip>
>> >>> It's a shame Tongue didn't get a bat.
>> >>>
>> >> IF he does in this match, england will have lost and it will be one
>> >>of the greatest
>> >> victorys ever.
>> England could still have won by one wicket, and it would have been one
>> of the most exciting Tests ever!
>> >> Tector and tucker or someother will have to bat all day.
>> MacBrine and Adair made a pretty good attempt at it. It's a pity neither
>> got their hundred.
>> >> Even though its only 4 days, and even if stokes didnt want to bat
>> >> himself, he should have let brook and bairstow have a go.
>> >As mentioned by Andy Zaltzman on TMS, Stokes is the first captain in
>> >Test history not to bat, bowl or keep wicket in a match that his team
>> >won.
>
>more significantly when he took the catch off root he clearly jarred
>his knee. wasnt a good sign. afterwards when isa was interviewing
>him alongside vaughn and cook, he seemed very defensive, played
>down the importance of the ashes, didnt answer any qs directly.
>it seemed very awkward and was even uncomfortable to watch.
>he claimed his knee was ok, was never planning to bowl in this
>match but didnt say whether he could in the ashes.

IIRC, when he was interviewed on Sky he didn't seem particularly
defensive and said he would be bowling in the Ashes.

> he turned
>his arm over in the warmup b4 the start, well barely. perhaps he
>can be a non playing captain like in the ryder cup. when asked
>what they planned to do until the 1st test, he mentioned golf,
>which seeing what happened to bairstow, seems a bit dodgy.

Bairstow's was very much a freak accident that could have happened
almost anywhere. I don't regard golf as a high-risk activity. Now if
they were planning to go sky-diving or bungee jumping... :)

>
>>
>> A couple of thoughts: Today, when the pitch was pretty benign, the
>> fastest bowler (Tongue) was unsurprisingly the most effective. He's not
>> truly fast, though, and we must hope that Wood stays fit enough to play
>> a major part in the Ashes series, as otherwise I fear England will
>> struggle to dismiss Australia on good batting pitches. Hopefully Stone
>> will be fit soon enough to play a part in the last couple of Tests. The
>> alternative to pace on good pitches is a top quality wrist-spinner, but
>> of course we lack one of those, unless Baz and Ben pull a rabbit out of
>> a hat and Adil Rashid suddenly turns up in white England kit. (Rehan
>> Ahmed might be that bowler in a year or two, but not yet.)
>
>yes stokes almost said the same thing afterwards, on a good pitch,
>they will struggle to dismiss the opp, whereas oz bowlers are generally
>a yard faster [starc if fit much more prob] and lyon has greater control
>and threat than leach.
>
>i thought leach was disappointing. he spent the day aiming at the
>rough outside leg but just got carted. so many runs went through the
>leg side as they wernt any fielders in the deep there for much of the day,
>they had a free hit.

I wondered if he was unwell, as he went off the field a couple of times.
With his medical problems, that will always be a bit of a concern. The
possibility of losing Leach is perhaps even more of a concern than
losing a seamer; there are plenty more seamers to choose from, but ATM
there's no credible replacement for Leach.

> If stokes cant bowl, it means we only have 4 bowlers
>plus root. i suspect oz will target leach, well they did in oz last time,
>putting more the burden on our elderly seamers, that is if they all
>play.

I imagine England will be rotating their seamers. I'll be surprised if
Anderson and Broad play in all five Tests, and astonished if Wood is
able too. Australia are likely to have similar problems, but have Boland
in reserve, and their all-rounder - Green - is a lot more likeloy to
stay fit than Stokes is.

>
>some other odd things today; i think broad took his wkts from the pavillion
>end but started from the nursury end today, with potts when i was
>expecting tongue after his wkts yesterday. and then root took the
>2nd new ball.

Perhaps even more surprising was that Root shared the second new ball
for a couple of overs before Broad came on.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"