On 18 Nov 2023 20:30:12 GMT
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:

> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
> switched over to NiMH.

Eeek - definitely ignore anything that talks about memory effect.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 18 Nov 2023 20:33:50 GMT
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:

> On 2023-11-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 04:44:08 -0600

> > That's good advice - although some laptops (the work Macbook for
> > example) do their own battery protection by turning off the charging
> > circuitry from time to time.
>
> And every other laptop and phone made in the last ten years or more.

I did not know it was that widespread - I don't buy laptops often
(my own Macbook is a 2012 model, rarely used and its battery is good for
maybe an hour, the work one is only two and a half years old - hmm I
probably rate a new one soonish) and my phone only spends lengthy periods
on charge when being used as a splatnav.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

In article <20231118223825.846a1723e764b08d3d26d1a2@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 22:38:25 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 18 Nov 2023 20:30:12 GMT
>Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>
>> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
>> switched over to NiMH.
>
> Eeek - definitely ignore anything that talks about memory effect.
>
Unless you are still using a NiCad battery?
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <krsl6kF3034U1@mid.individual.net>, Bernard Peek
<bap@shrdlu.com> on Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 20:30:12 awoke Nicholas from
his slumbers and wrote
>On 2023-11-18, vickiebee <prairiedove73505@aol.com> wrote:
>> Hymermut wrote:
>>> On 18/11/2023 00:31, vickiebee wrote:
>>>>> I don't ever shut mine down. I don't do updates either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tone
>>>> ~~~ Eek, I only plug mine in for 2 or 3 hours a day. Is that bad? I
>>>> got into the habit because we have sudden leckky storms with big
>>>> lightning boomers.
>>>
>>> I was told by somebody that knows these things that more wear and
>>> tear is likely to be done to 'puters by shutting them down and
>>> restarting them than by leaving them on, or in sleep mode.
>>>
>>> I'm sure knowledgeable sheddi will either confirm or poo poo this.
>>>
>>> Tone
>> ~~~
>> Welluh, I checked with a techie over in Quora:
>>
>> "Should a PC always be plugged in?
>> Depends on the computer. If it is a laptop I wouldn't leave it plugged
>> in, unless you want to ruin the battery."
>
>That was true in the early days of lithium batteries. These days the
>electronics can manage batteries better than you can. Leaving a laptop
>plugged in will have no adverse effects. The really dangerous thing is to
>let the battery go completely flat. Doing that just once can wreck it.

Most, if not all, modern controllers will switch off the device if the
remaining battery power falls below a safe amount. Both my phobile and
potpal close down at about 5-2%.
>
>A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
>switched over to NiMH.
>

--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 18/11/2023 20:30, Bernard Peek wrote:
>
> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
> switched over to NiMH.
>
Yes - a game changer that was..

Chris

On 19/11/2023 08:00, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <20231118223825.846a1723e764b08d3d26d1a2@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 22:38:25 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On 18 Nov 2023 20:30:12 GMT
>> Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
>>> switched over to NiMH.
>>
>> Eeek - definitely ignore anything that talks about memory effect.
>>
> Unless you are still using a NiCad battery?

I doubt (hope?) there are none still active!

Chris

In article <kru9o3Feg45U2@mid.individual.net>, chrisnd@privacy.net
<chrisnd@privacy.net> on Sun, 19 Nov 2023 at 11:26:59 awoke Nicholas
from his slumbers and wrote
>On 19/11/2023 08:00, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <20231118223825.846a1723e764b08d3d26d1a2@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 22:38:25 awoke
>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> On 18 Nov 2023 20:30:12 GMT
>>> Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
>>>> switched over to NiMH.
>>>
>>> Eeek - definitely ignore anything that talks about memory effect.
>>>
>> Unless you are still using a NiCad battery?
>
>I doubt (hope?) there are none still active!
>
I still use a radio which has a (built in NiCad) battery. There is no
equivalent battery. It does not run for long on its battery.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 11:25:58 +0000
"chrisnd@privacy.net" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

> On 18/11/2023 20:30, Bernard Peek wrote:
> >
> > A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before
> > NiCd switched over to NiMH.
> >
> Yes - a game changer that was..

Especially when the low self discharge variant was developed.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:06:58 +0000
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:

> I still use a radio which has a (built in NiCad) battery. There is no
> equivalent battery.

You could make one with a lithium cell and DC-DC converter as used
in various batteries with USB charging ports. The charging circuit wouldn't
work though so that would take some fettling - or just an off the shelf USB
charging board.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 19/11/2023 12:06, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <kru9o3Feg45U2@mid.individual.net>, chrisnd@privacy.net
> <chrisnd@privacy.net> on Sun, 19 Nov 2023 at 11:26:59 awoke Nicholas
> from his slumbers and wrote
>> On 19/11/2023 08:00, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>> In article <20231118223825.846a1723e764b08d3d26d1a2@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 22:38:25 awoke
>>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>> On 18 Nov 2023 20:30:12 GMT
>>>> Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A lot of the battery care advice on the 'net is from the days before NiCd
>>>>> switched over to NiMH.
>>>>
>>>> Eeek - definitely ignore anything that talks about memory effect.
>>>>
>>> Unless you are still using a NiCad battery?
>>
>> I doubt (hope?) there are none still active!
>>
> I still use a radio which has a (built in NiCad) battery. There is no
> equivalent battery. It does not run for long on its battery.

Oooh!
What type (of battery) is it?

Chris

On 2023-11-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:06:58 +0000
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>> I still use a radio which has a (built in NiCad) battery. There is no
>> equivalent battery.
>
> You could make one with a lithium cell and DC-DC converter as used
> in various batteries with USB charging ports. The charging circuit wouldn't
> work though so that would take some fettling - or just an off the shelf USB
> charging board.

There are battery protection circuits for lithium cells that include
circuitry for charging them from 5v. Some cells are sold with the circuits
built-in. ZuLand have power-banks that include a single 18650 lithium cell
and the protection/charging circuit. I've just disassembled a power bank
that had three 18650 cells in parallel. The charging circuitry sacrificed
itself to protect them.

--
Bernard Peek
bap@shrdlu.com
Wigan

Richard Robinson <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
> Tim+ said:
>> Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>> In article <20231117130349.058fa1b3b2a99eb8166b5a98@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 at 13:03:49 awoke
>>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>> On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 12:34:31 +0000
>>>> Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 17/11/2023 11:44, vickiebee wrote:
>>>>>> this dinosaur still uses a desktop
>>>>>
>>>>> Nowt wrong with that. I've got two on the go.
>>>>
>>>> Makes three of us using desktops - at least (although my desktop is a tower
>>>> under the desk).
>>
>> I am so far ahead of you all in the dotage stage apparently. I only boot up
>> my PC if I absolutely have to, otherwise I use my iPad or phone. Can’t
>> imagine waiting to boot up a PC to read and post a few newsgrope massages,
>> buying stuff, booking tickets, sending e-men, general web browsing etc,
>> etc.
>
> You leave your other gadgets running ?
>
>

You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a tiny
fraction of what a PC consumes. Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s tech.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ said:
> Richard Robinson <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tim+ said:
>>> Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <20231117130349.058fa1b3b2a99eb8166b5a98@eircom.net>,
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 at
>>>> 13:03:49 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 12:34:31 +0000 Hymermut <tone@email.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/11/2023 11:44, vickiebee wrote:
>>>>>>> this dinosaur still uses a desktop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nowt wrong with that. I've got two on the go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes three of us using desktops - at least (although my desktop
>>>>> is a tower under the desk).
>>>
>>> I am so far ahead of you all in the dotage stage apparently. I only
>>> boot up my PC if I absolutely have to, otherwise I use my iPad or
>>> phone. Can’t imagine waiting to boot up a PC to read and post a few
>>> newsgrope massages, buying stuff, booking tickets, sending e-men,
>>> general web browsing etc, etc.
>>
>> You leave your other gadgets running ?
>
> You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a
> tiny fraction of what a PC consumes.

I find it tedious having to fret about keeping them charged, however
little it costs. And the screens are so small ...

> Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s tech.

Amusingly, my shoes are a-few-millenia-old tech and still do the wbo.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article <uje40p$3qk$1@dont-email.me>, Richard Robinson
<richard@qualmograph.org.uk> on Sun, 19 Nov 2023 at 22:59:37 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>Tim+ said:
>> Richard Robinson <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Tim+ said:
>>>> Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <20231117130349.058fa1b3b2a99eb8166b5a98@eircom.net>,
>>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 at
>>>>> 13:03:49 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 12:34:31 +0000 Hymermut <tone@email.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17/11/2023 11:44, vickiebee wrote:
>>>>>>>> this dinosaur still uses a desktop
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nowt wrong with that. I've got two on the go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes three of us using desktops - at least (although my desktop
>>>>>> is a tower under the desk).
>>>>
>>>> I am so far ahead of you all in the dotage stage apparently. I only
>>>> boot up my PC if I absolutely have to, otherwise I use my iPad or
>>>> phone. Can’t imagine waiting to boot up a PC to read and post a few
>>>> newsgrope massages, buying stuff, booking tickets, sending e-men,
>>>> general web browsing etc, etc.
>>>
>>> You leave your other gadgets running ?
>>
>> You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a
>> tiny fraction of what a PC consumes.
>
>I find it tedious having to fret about keeping them charged, however
>little it costs. And the screens are so small ...

How anybody does serious work on a smart phone or an iPad beats me. Not
only are the screens small but typing on to a tiny screen is impossible,
beyond a short SMS message. Keeping your data safe on these portable
devices is next to impossible.
>
>> Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s tech.
>
>Amusingly, my shoes are a-few-millenia-old tech and still do the wbo.
>
>

--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 19/11/2023 20:35, Tim+ wrote:

> You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a tiny
> fraction of what a PC consumes. Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s tech.
>
I find the user interface a lot better than anything using a touch screen.

Tablets are handy for viewing stuff, but very poor if I need to input
stuff. Typing this message would have taken much longer on the touch
screen device.

Phones are good for making calls and the occasional diary entry. I use
mine mostly for short messages, traffic reports, and finding new places.

As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm, and
given the choice, I quite like gas lamps.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 08:21:26 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 19/11/2023 20:35, Tim+ wrote:
>
> > You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a
> > tiny fraction of what a PC consumes. Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s
> > tech.
> >
> I find the user interface a lot better than anything using a touch screen.

There's a lot that can't be done on a phone or tablet. For example I
can't run openscad and slicers on tablets for 3D printing design work, even
if I could I wouldn't want to, the user interface would be positively
hostile.

On a PC I have a choice of operating systems that never go out of
support at the whim of the manufacturer - try getting updates for a five
year old phone or tablet! Most of them never phone home TAAAW,

I have desktop, laptop (for travel) and phone. I haven't found a
real use for a tablet although I keep getting tempted to molish a virtual
pinball table (like the Sharpin ones) from one.

> As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm, and
> given the choice, I quite like gas lamps.

Ugh I wouldn't have gas in my home, but to each their own goat.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 2023-11-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 08:21:26 +0000
> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 19/11/2023 20:35, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>> > You mean my iPad and smart phone? I think their power consumption is a
>> > tiny fraction of what a PC consumes. Seriously, PCs are yesterday’s
>> > tech.
>> >
>> I find the user interface a lot better than anything using a touch screen.
>
> There's a lot that can't be done on a phone or tablet. For example I
> can't run openscad and slicers on tablets for 3D printing design work, even
> if I could I wouldn't want to, the user interface would be positively
> hostile.
>
> On a PC I have a choice of operating systems that never go out of
> support at the whim of the manufacturer - try getting updates for a five
> year old phone or tablet! Most of them never phone home TAAAW,
>
> I have desktop, laptop (for travel) and phone. I haven't found a
> real use for a tablet although I keep getting tempted to molish a virtual
> pinball table (like the Sharpin ones) from one.
>
>> As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm, and
>> given the choice, I quite like gas lamps.
>
> Ugh I wouldn't have gas in my home, but to each their own goat.
>

My daughter has a friend that wrote her thesis using a smart phone,
60,000 words.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Death to the Influencers, hung, drawn and quartered is more than they deserve.
BringBack(Bonking)Boris..

On 20 Nov 2023 10:17:48 GMT
maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:

> My daughter has a friend that wrote her thesis using a smart phone,
> 60,000 words.

Her poor thumbs.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

John Williamson said:
>
> As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm

I lit mine yesterday, for the 2nd time this autumn. It was too hot. I
can't keep the fire in without it giving too much heat.

Not a bad problem to have, really. The disruption of getting the place
properly (well, much better) insulated is definitely having an effect.

But when I moved here 25 years ago it would have been cold enought to
start lighting it for a month or so by now.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 20/11/2023 12:14, Richard Robinson wrote:
> John Williamson said:
>>
>> As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm
>
> I lit mine yesterday, for the 2nd time this autumn. It was too hot. I
> can't keep the fire in without it giving too much heat.
>
Mine's been ticking over for a couple of weeks now. Inside is kept at my
preferred 20 to 25 degrees C.

I had your problem with the old one. Light it, wait half an hour and
open the windows to let the excess heat out...

> Not a bad problem to have, really. The disruption of getting the place
> properly (well, much better) insulated is definitely having an effect.
>
Yes, good insulation pays for itself in a few ways.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson said:
> On 20/11/2023 12:14, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> John Williamson said:
>>>
>>> As for old tech, I like my new solid fuel stove for keeping warm
>>
>> I lit mine yesterday, for the 2nd time this autumn. It was too hot. I
>> can't keep the fire in without it giving too much heat.
>>
> Mine's been ticking over for a couple of weeks now. Inside is kept at my
> preferred 20 to 25 degrees C.
>
> I had your problem with the old one. Light it, wait half an hour and
> open the windows to let the excess heat out...

Yes, I was finding 25° too hot. Softwood may be the trouble - there was
a bloke does some joinery jbex, caught on that I like to be given
offcuts that'd save him dumping them in the landfill. So huge big bags
clogging up the backyard & ginnel, they're in the way; flare up quick
and then nothing left, throw more in quick. Maybe I should let it go out
& relight it later.

>> Not a bad problem to have, really. The disruption of getting the place
>> properly (well, much better) insulated is definitely having an effect.
>>
> Yes, good insulation pays for itself in a few ways.

I should live so long ...

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 14:09:12 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Yes, good insulation pays for itself in a few ways.

Yes, it took five years to pay for the insulation and the pellet
burner installation in this place based on what we were spending on oil in
the (smaller) place we were renting before we bought this place and
finished the build.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 20/11/2023 17:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 14:09:12 +0000
> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, good insulation pays for itself in a few ways.
>
> Yes, it took five years to pay for the insulation and the pellet
> burner installation in this place based on what we were spending on oil in
> the (smaller) place we were renting before we bought this place and
> finished the build.
>
And while it was paying itself off in cash, you were all more comfortable.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 20-Nov-23 10:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2023 10:17:48 GMT
> maus <maus@deb2.org> wrote:
>
>> My daughter has a friend that wrote her thesis using a smart phone,
>> 60,000 words.
>
> Her poor thumbs.
>
A bit like some chap who wrote an entire novel without using the letter "e".
Amazing achievement and all that, but... Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby_(novel)

--
Sam Plusnet

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 18:21:05 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 20/11/2023 17:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 14:09:12 +0000
> > John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, good insulation pays for itself in a few ways.
> >
> > Yes, it took five years to pay for the insulation and the pellet
> > burner installation in this place based on what we were spending on oil
> > in the (smaller) place we were renting before we bought this place and
> > finished the build.
> >
> And while it was paying itself off in cash, you were all more comfortable.

Ho yus - and still are five years later. Some time ago there was an
article in the paper about how a pensioner in a small flat was having
difficulties with their heating costs which quoted their heating bills. The
heating and hot water costs for this six bedroom floor and a half bungalow
with five people in it were about 2/3 what that pensioner was paying to
heat a small flat.

When people suggest I should downsize (two of those five are no
longer breathing and another has moved out) to save money I laugh - besides
I wouldn't be able to use the Marshall half cab when I feel like playing
loud.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency