Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by careless or inconsiderate driving.

Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.

The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near Solihull, on January 12 last year.

Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10 years and ordered to pay costs of £459.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/

On 23/06/2023 08:03 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by careless or inconsiderate driving.
>
> Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.
>
> The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near Solihull, on January 12 last year.
>
> Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10 years and ordered to pay costs of £459.
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/

Who was on the bike?

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:03:46 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by careless or inconsiderate driving.
>
> Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.
>
> The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near Solihull, on January 12 last year.
>
> Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10 years and ordered to pay costs of £459.
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/

QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless, she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph with her vision impacted by glare that created a shadow on the verge. ENDS

Shadows now instead of the Sun? Bollocks.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by
> careless or inconsiderate driving.
>
> Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the
> wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.
>
> The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near
> Solihull, on January 12 last year.
>
> Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10
> years and ordered to pay costs of £459.
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/

Something odd here…

Maureen Jesper knocks the cyclist off the bicycle, who is then struck by a
second vehicle that also didn’t see the cyclist.

So why is only one driver being punished?

Shouldn’t the second driver suffer some sanction?

And they both failed to see the cyclist, so was there in fact something
affecting the drivers’ vision as Jesper claimed?

--
Spike

QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless, she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph. ENDS

I'm sure that this Mr Arsehole would take a different view if his client was hit by a cyclist riding at 36mph and hitting his Rhiannon clone playing chicken in the road. He would have been bombing along at "crazy speeds".

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless,
> she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph. ENDS
>
> I'm sure that this Mr Arsehole would take a different view if his client
> was hit by a cyclist riding at 36mph and hitting his Rhiannon clone
> playing chicken in the road. He would have been bombing along at "crazy speeds".

Supposition piled upon supposition and well larded with a mixture of apples
and oranges can result in any petty vindictiveness that you want.

--
Spike

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 9:57:04 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless, she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph. ENDS
>
> I'm sure that this Mr Arsehole would take a different view if his client was hit by a cyclist riding at 36mph and hitting his Rhiannon clone playing chicken in the road. He would have been bombing along at "crazy speeds".

20mph - the speed that drivers find it "impossible" to keep to as it is "too slow" yet they complain about reckless cyclists overtaking them at the same speed.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 9:57:04 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>> QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless,
>> she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph. ENDS
>>
>> I'm sure that this Mr Arsehole would take a different view if his client
>> was hit by a cyclist riding at 36mph and hitting his Rhiannon clone
>> playing chicken in the road. He would have been bombing along at "crazy speeds".

> 20mph - the speed that drivers find it "impossible" to keep to as it is
> "too slow" yet they complain about reckless cyclists overtaking them at the same speed.

Supposition piled upon supposition and well larded with a mixture of apples
and oranges can result in any snide and petty vindictiveness that you want.

--
Spike

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:03:46 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by careless or inconsiderate driving.
>
> Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.
>
> The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near Solihull, on January 12 last year.
>
> Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10 years and ordered to pay costs of £459.
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/

Didn't she get the option of retaking her driving test at the age of 98?
"The war on the poor, innocent and oppressed motorist" - Daily Gammon.

On 24/06/2023 06:05 am, swldx...@gmail.com...

....pretending to answer his own posts, says:

> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:03:46 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Maureen Jesper pleaded guilty to causing the death of Jacqui Witham by careless or inconsiderate driving.
>> Birmingham Magistrates Court was told the 88-year-old was behind the wheel of her Renault Clio when she struck the mum-of-two.
>> The incident took place on Friday Lane in the village of Barston, near Solihull, on January 12 last year.
>> Jesper, of Sambourn Close, Solihull was disqualified for driving for 10 years and ordered to pay costs of £459.
>> https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/pensioner-88-spared-jail-after-mowing-down-cyclist-without-knowing-18985968/
>
> QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless, she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph with her vision impacted by glare that created a shadow on the verge. ENDS
>
> Shadows now instead of the Sun? Bollocks.

Unqualified pundits on Usenet are ALWAYS better apprised of the facts
than the court is, aren't they?

Did you MISS the fact that the lady in question pleaded guilty?

On 24/06/2023 09:57 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> QUOTE: He said that while her failure to see the cyclist was careless, she was driving at a relatively low speed of 36mph. ENDS
>
> I'm sure that this Mr Arsehole would take a different view if his client was hit by a cyclist riding at 36mph and hitting his Rhiannon clone playing chicken in the road. He would have been bombing along at "crazy speeds".

Does being as idiotic as you were there take a lot of practice?

QUOTE: 4 days ago

I doubt if the fact that she has never had an accident before is of much comfort to the dead woman's family! This happened on a country lane, if the driver couldn't see properly, she should have driven more carefully. How could she not even realise she had hit someone? At the end of the day, someone is dead because of her. A small fine and being banned from driving (effectively for life) is not a particularly harsh sentence! As far as I am concerned, any driver who causes a death on the road should be banned for life. ENDS

Sriracha | 3912 posts | 13 min ago
0 likes

So no culpability or punishment all round.

The geriatric ought already to have surrendered her licence long ago, so its suspension is just correcting that administrative oversight.

Meanwhile the second driver is given a pass, all culpability for the death somehow neutralised.

It's like the legal inverse of joint and several liability with each one's actions exculpating the other.

https://road.cc/content/news/88-year-old-caused-death-cyclist-without-noticing-302103#comments

On 24/06/2023 07:37 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Sriracha | 3912 posts | 13 min ago
> 0 likes
>
> So no culpability or punishment all round.
>
> The geriatric ought already to have surrendered her licence long ago, so its suspension is just correcting that administrative oversight.
>
> Meanwhile the second driver is given a pass, all culpability for the death somehow neutralised.
>
> It's like the legal inverse of joint and several liability with each one's actions exculpating the other.
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/88-year-old-caused-death-cyclist-without-noticing-302103#comments

You were hoping that readers would believe that you wrote that.

But "exculpating" is known to be beyond you.

mctrials23 | 103 posts | 7 hours ago
3 likes

And this is why you should have to take your test again every 5 years or so once you hit 60. The number of dangerous elderly drivers on our roads is shocking. The ones you pass on the motorway doing 45. The ones that clearly can't see as they edge out of a side road despite you hurtling towards them.. The ones that are driving so far below the speed limit its dangerous and every time a car comes in the other direction they slow down.

I was passed a few months back by an elderly man who overtook me going about 1mph faster than me and was about 6 inches from my handlebars the entire time. I'm sure he thought he was being entirely safe.

What a load of snivelling rubbish.

It’s easy to see why cyclists as a group are hated.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> mctrials23 | 103 posts | 7 hours ago
> 3 likes

> And this is why you should have to take your test again every 5 years or
> so once you hit 60. The number of dangerous elderly drivers on our roads is shocking.

Cyclists don’t take any tests at all, ever, so what are you complaining
about?

The insurance companies, who know rather more about this than you do,
report that elderly drivers are the safest in the road!

So, ‘up you, sunshine’.

> The ones you pass on the motorway doing 45.

It’s called ‘operating a vehicle within one’s limitations’, clearly a
totally unfamiliar concept to cyclists.

> The ones that clearly can't see as they edge out of a side road despite
> you hurtling towards them.

That’s despite your hi-vis, helmet cam, 5000 lumen headlight, and blaring
Hornit?

> The ones that are driving so far below the speed limit its dangerous and
> every time a car comes in the other direction they slow down.

You do realise that a speed limit is a limit, not a target?

I suppose that as speed limits don’t yet apply to cyclists, that concept
would be unfamiliar to you.

> I was passed a few months back by an elderly man who overtook me going
> about 1mph faster than me and was about 6 inches from my handlebars the
> entire time. I'm sure he thought he was being entirely safe.

I was passed a few months ago by a cyclist, with only inches to spare, with
him travelling several times faster than me. But that was on a pavement. He
probably thought he was safe, but couldn’t give a toss about my safety.

--
Spike

RTA statistics show that it's the very youngest and the very oldests who suffer a greater traffic casuality rate. It's only from aged 70 that a very small proportionate increase in the rate-per-age-group begins to increase. Its the over 80s who are much more likely to become casualties in RTAs than most other age groups. And this is because they are more frail rather than causing more RTAs themselves.When hit by another (even a cyclist) they die more easily.

The larger danger, age-group-wise, are the youngest age-group drivers, who are more likely to also be the cause rather than just the victims of a crash.

See the links given here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-... (link is external)

Like you, I have been concerned about the seeming lack of driving skills seen in many of the very old. Yet they are generally slow (as you mention) and also likely to signal their ineptitude in plenty of time for us to avoid them. Not so with boy racers, some of whom like to actually ambush cyclists (amongst other road users).

Sriracha | 3915 posts | 13 hours ago
12 likes

So the moral of the story is claiming you were totally unaware you hit someone, or claiming you were unable to see anything ahead of you, both are accepted in mitigation rather than being culpatory.

The suspension of the geriatric's licence is no more than an administrative correction to the fact that she had neglected to surrender it already.

And the driver who killed the victim gets the sympathy vote for finding themselves in such a situation.

The dismal logic seems to be, the second driver might not have killed the victim if the first driver hadn't hit them first, and she didn't even see the victim because of the sun's glare (and her geriatric impaired vision no doubt) so really it's nobody's fault.

It's like the inverse of joint and several liability where the fatal combination of two incompetent and lethally negligent drivers' actions somehow conspires to mutually exonerate them.

Sriracha replied to Christopher TR1 | 3915 posts | 14 hours ago
6 likes

I'm in this situation with an elderly relative - we all know they ought not be driving but it's actually very difficult to achieve that end when they won't accept it for themselves and voluntarily surrender tbeir licence. You have to shop them anonymously to the DVLA, and - crucially - have their GP lined up ready to back up your assessment. Without a Power of Attorney the GP probably isn't even going to take your call.

It's got little to do with being old. Inept and dangerous driving is practiced by every age group. Some of the younger ones are much more dangerous as they're much more inclined to the consciously dangerous mode rather then the merely inept mode.

Motorised missiles indeed. Personally, I'd severely reduce the access to the missiles. It seems a bit close-the-gate-after-the-horse-bolt to moan on about bad missile pilots after they've exploded their Audi or BMW on your person.

As to being ready for such a missile or the" busted cataract" )???) ..... easy to pretend that all dangers can be warded away if we are just astute gimlet-eyed road warriors or general life pathfinders. In fact, things do come out of the blue.

On the other hand, there is a cyclists' sixth sense that can be developed. This sums up the various car-twtches, badges and driver-expressions et al into an indication to the bike pilot of just what a nearby motor-missile might be about to do to you, given a chance. Sometimes they can be dodged or even avoided completely.

But sometimes they sneak up

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> RTA statistics show that it's the very youngest and the very oldests who
> suffer a greater traffic casuality rate. It's only from aged 70 that a
> very small proportionate increase in the rate-per-age-group begins to
> increase. Its the over 80s who are much more likely to become casualties
> in RTAs than most other age groups. And this is because they are more
> frail rather than causing more RTAs themselves.When hit by another (even
> a cyclist) they die more easily.
>
> The larger danger, age-group-wise, are the youngest age-group drivers,
> who are more likely to also be the cause rather than just the victims of a crash.
>
> See the links given here:
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-... (link is
> external)
>
> Like you, I have been concerned about the seeming lack of driving skills
> seen in many of the very old. Yet they are generally slow (as you
> mention) and also likely to signal their ineptitude in plenty of time for
> us to avoid them. Not so with boy racers, some of whom like to actually
> ambush cyclists (amongst other road users).

Larding supposition upon supposition is an excellent way of denigrating
your target group, in this case people who are different to you.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sriracha replied to Christopher TR1 | 3915 posts | 14 hours ago
> 6 likes
>
> I'm in this situation with an elderly relative - we all know they ought
> not be driving but it's actually very difficult to achieve that end when
> they won't accept it for themselves and voluntarily surrender tbeir
> licence. You have to shop them anonymously to the DVLA, and - crucially -
> have their GP lined up ready to back up your assessment. Without a Power
> of Attorney the GP probably isn't even going to take your call.

I suppose the despised elderly could always employ a souped-up
electric-motor cycle and kill people that way, and presumably you’d agree
with that because, well, it involves a bicycle.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's got little to do with being old. Inept and dangerous driving is
> practiced by every age group. Some of the younger ones are much more
> dangerous as they're much more inclined to the consciously dangerous mode
> rather then the merely inept mode.
>
> Motorised missiles indeed. Personally, I'd severely reduce the access to
> the missiles. It seems a bit close-the-gate-after-the-horse-bolt to moan
> on about bad missile pilots after they've exploded their Audi or BMW on your person.
>
> As to being ready for such a missile or the" busted cataract" )???) .....
> easy to pretend that all dangers can be warded away if we are just astute
> gimlet-eyed road warriors or general life pathfinders. In fact, things do
> come out of the blue.
>
> On the other hand, there is a cyclists' sixth sense that can be
> developed. This sums up the various car-twtches, badges and
> driver-expressions et al into an indication to the bike pilot of just
> what a nearby motor-missile might be about to do to you, given a chance.
> Sometimes they can be dodged or even avoided completely.
>
> But sometimes they sneak up

Cyclists employing anticipation? Whatever next? Employ their brakes every
now and then? Sheesh.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sriracha | 3915 posts | 13 hours ago
> 12 likes
>
> So the moral of the story is claiming you were totally unaware you hit
> someone, or claiming you were unable to see anything ahead of you, both
> are accepted in mitigation rather than being culpatory.
>
> The suspension of the geriatric's licence is no more than an
> administrative correction to the fact that she had neglected to surrender it already.
>
> And the driver who killed the victim gets the sympathy vote for finding
> themselves in such a situation.
>
> The dismal logic seems to be, the second driver might not have killed the
> victim if the first driver hadn't hit them first, and she didn't even see
> the victim because of the sun's glare (and her geriatric impaired vision
> no doubt) so really it's nobody's fault.
>
> It's like the inverse of joint and several liability where the fatal
> combination of two incompetent and lethally negligent drivers' actions
> somehow conspires to mutually exonerate them.

Larding supposition upon supposition is an excellent way of denigrating
your target group.

--
Spike

QUOTE: Jesper, of Solihull, was said to have heard a "thud" as she drove along the 50mph stretch but failed to realise what happened. A short while later she discovered her door mirror was hanging off. ENDS

Amazing - these low flying Suns can do so much unseen damage.
What a load of bollocks.