Initial analysis of the impact of widespread implementation of 20mph speed limits across Wales last week suggests a "dramatic" change in traffic speeds, with the results hailed "astonishing and far greater than would have been predicted".

Rod King MBE, a campaign director at 20's Plenty for Us told Wales Online (link is external) he hopes the move will make routes "far more pleasant for walkers and cyclists", his comments coming as a report by transport and public health data analysts Agilysis showed an on average reduction in vehicle speed on new 20mph routes of 2.9mph.

Agilysis' Richard Owen said the results were "astonishing" and showed that Welsh drivers had "on the whole" accepted lower speed limits and "have changed their behaviour accordingly".

"There will remain some drivers who choose to break the limit by significant amounts but the drop in speeds on the fastest urban roads has been marked," he said.

Agilysis undertook the research after the implementation of the default urban speed limit on 17 September, and collected GPS data from mapping company TomTom to retrieve and analyse speed data within 24 hours of the change.

Looking at the data anonymously provided, Agilysis studied "a very significant sample and more than sufficient for this type of analysis" across a selection of vehicle types — privately owned cars, vans, plus commercial vehicles.

In total, 491.8km of roads that changed from 30mph to 20mph, were analysed across areas such as Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, Wrexham, Rhyl, Merthyr Tydfil, Lampeter, Bangor, Haverfordwest and Newtown. Minor local roads and quiet residential roads were excluded from the analysis as they do not have sufficient sample sizes for the time periods selected.

The headline figure pre-implementation of 20mph speed limits was the average weighted median speed across all the routes was 22.7mph, this dropped to 19.8mph post-implementation.

In Cardiff the average weighted median speed dropped from 22.6mph to 19.7mph, while the biggest drop was seen in Rhyl & Prestatyn and Wrexham where the average speeds dropped from 23.2mph to 19.6mph, a reduction of 3.6mph from before the implementation.]

The report concluded the change in speed had been "dramatic" and suggested that compliance is "very good". By using results from Cardiff and Wrexham, the report suggests that drivers' journey times were, on average, between 45 and 63 seconds longer.

"The analysis period covered the 6am to 6pm period and compliance is expected to be lower outside of these times," it suggested. "Fewer vulnerable road users (cyclists and pedestrians) are likely to use the roads at these times however and the impact on those killed or seriously injured may be lower.. Nevertheless, there are opportunities using this approach to review compliance at different times of the day."

Rod King of 20's Plenty for Us added: "Our experience from so many implementations across the UK tells us that 20mph limits work, and they work particularly well on the faster urban roads.

"They are not a silver bullet, but do reduce speeds to make streets far more pleasant for walkers and cyclists, they lower faster speeds and produce a more consistent flow of traffic. This in turn makes it safer for all road users. A default urban/village 20mph limit is key to liveability and community life whilst at the same time retaining mobility for all. Well done Wales."

https://road.cc/content/news/20mph-speed-limit-analysis-hailed-astonishing-304085

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Initial analysis of the impact of widespread implementation of 20mph
> speed limits across Wales last week suggests a "dramatic" change in
> traffic speeds, with the results hailed "astonishing and far greater than
> would have been predicted".
>
> Rod King MBE, a campaign director at 20's Plenty for Us told Wales Online
> (link is external) he hopes the move will make routes "far more pleasant
> for walkers and cyclists", his comments coming as a report by transport
> and public health data analysts Agilysis showed an on average reduction
> in vehicle speed on new 20mph routes of 2.9mph.
>
> Agilysis' Richard Owen said the results were "astonishing" and showed
> that Welsh drivers had "on the whole" accepted lower speed limits and
> "have changed their behaviour accordingly".
>
> "There will remain some drivers who choose to break the limit by
> significant amounts but the drop in speeds on the fastest urban roads has
> been marked," he said.
>
> Agilysis undertook the research after the implementation of the default
> urban speed limit on 17 September, and collected GPS data from mapping
> company TomTom to retrieve and analyse speed data within 24 hours of the change.
>
> Looking at the data anonymously provided, Agilysis studied "a very
> significant sample and more than sufficient for this type of analysis"
> across a selection of vehicle types — privately owned cars, vans, plus commercial vehicles.
>
> In total, 491.8km of roads that changed from 30mph to 20mph, were
> analysed across areas such as Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, Wrexham, Rhyl,
> Merthyr Tydfil, Lampeter, Bangor, Haverfordwest and Newtown. Minor local
> roads and quiet residential roads were excluded from the analysis as they
> do not have sufficient sample sizes for the time periods selected.
>
> The headline figure pre-implementation of 20mph speed limits was the
> average weighted median speed across all the routes was 22.7mph, this
> dropped to 19.8mph post-implementation.
>
> In Cardiff the average weighted median speed dropped from 22.6mph to
> 19.7mph, while the biggest drop was seen in Rhyl & Prestatyn and Wrexham
> where the average speeds dropped from 23.2mph to 19.6mph, a reduction of
> 3.6mph from before the implementation.]
>
> The report concluded the change in speed had been "dramatic" and
> suggested that compliance is "very good". By using results from Cardiff
> and Wrexham, the report suggests that drivers' journey times were, on
> average, between 45 and 63 seconds longer.
>
> "The analysis period covered the 6am to 6pm period and compliance is
> expected to be lower outside of these times," it suggested. "Fewer
> vulnerable road users (cyclists and pedestrians) are likely to use the
> roads at these times however and the impact on those killed or seriously
> injured may be lower. Nevertheless, there are opportunities using this
> approach to review compliance at different times of the day."
>
> Rod King of 20's Plenty for Us added: "Our experience from so many
> implementations across the UK tells us that 20mph limits work, and they
> work particularly well on the faster urban roads.
>
> "They are not a silver bullet, but do reduce speeds to make streets far
> more pleasant for walkers and cyclists, they lower faster speeds and
> produce a more consistent flow of traffic. This in turn makes it safer
> for all road users. A default urban/village 20mph limit is key to
> liveability and community life whilst at the same time retaining mobility
> for all. Well done Wales."
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/20mph-speed-limit-analysis-hailed-astonishing-304085
>

Clearly those who invented these faked up numbers didn’t consider
credibility.

If the average speed is now under change in average speed is under 3mph yet
the change in trio time is only 63 secs, how long are the trips?

(Hint: run the numbers for a 5 mile trip.)

belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
5 likes

Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is what truly dictates average traffic speeds

Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Initial analysis of the impact of widespread implementation of 20mph
>> speed limits across Wales last week suggests a "dramatic" change in
>> traffic speeds, with the results hailed "astonishing and far greater than
>> would have been predicted".

>> https://road.cc/content/news/20mph-speed-limit-analysis-hailed-astonishing-304085

> Clearly those who invented these faked up numbers didn’t consider
> credibility.

> If the change in average speed is under 3mph yet
> the change in trip time is only 63 secs, how long are the trips?

> (Hint: run the numbers for a 5 mile trip.)

You’ll have to do the calculation for him.

Mason was extolling the virtues of the Manchester bike-hire scheme, but
moments with a calculator on the reported numbers revealed that each 1.6
mile journey cost the taxpayer £436. It would have been cheaper to use
stretch limos instead of a bicycle.

In some universe that might make sense, but not in this one.

He hasn’t mentioned it since.

That was for the first 100,000km of the scheme.

When the distance travelled goes up to 10,000,000km, the cost per 1.6 mile
journey would then be £4:36, or several times the bus fare.

Not the sharpest tools in the box, these cyclists.

--
Spike

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
> 5 likes
>
> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
> what truly dictates average traffic speeds

Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?

--
Spike

David9694 | 3260 posts | 35 min ago
1 like

The lead investigator told us "collecting the bears' leavings, recording locations and times, lets us build a pretty good picture of which individuals are about, where in the wood they are ranging, and also some secondary data about family members they are associating with and their diet. We're getting better at determining how long it has been on the ground - we can date to an accuracy of about 12 hours, but temperature and rainfall all have to be taken into account.

A lot of teams swear by observation, but the problem you have there is you got to spend a lot of time at a fixed location and you cannot be 100% sure which individuals you are seeing at different times. We use cameras in some locations, but you have to either get lucky or leave ground bait to get any useable shots.

I guess we're gonna be collecting bear leavings for a little while yet."

On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>> 5 likes
>>
>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>
> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>
They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.

Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
> On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
>> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>>> 5 likes
>>>
>>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>>
>> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>>
> They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
> watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.

That’s not very PC…

--
Spike

Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on the web? It has been reported that significant numbers of the people signing the petition don't live in Wales. The reports of mass hysteria are exaggerated, as the figures above show, most people seem happy to obey the new limit.

The 20mph limit in residential areas is merely correcting a historical mistake as 30mph is far too fast for safety in these areas.

On 27/09/23 11:29, Spike wrote:
> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
>>> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>>>> 5 likes
>>>>
>>>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>>>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>>>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>>>
>>> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>>>
>> They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
>> watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.
>
> That’s not very PC…
>
I am not PC.
Do you want me not to stop at red lights, so that I can be PC?

Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
> On 27/09/23 11:29, Spike wrote:
>> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>>> On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
>>>> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>>>>> 5 likes
>>>>>
>>>>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>>>>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>>>>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>>>>
>>>> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>>>>
>>> They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
>>> watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.
>>
>> That’s not very PC…
>>
> I am not PC.
> Do you want me not to stop at red lights, so that I can be PC?

You seem to have shifted the goalposts there.

--
Spike

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> The 20mph limit in residential areas is merely correcting a historical
> mistake as 30mph is far too fast for safety in these areas.

Having ‘corrected’ one ‘historical mistake’, it’s time to move on and
correct another: dealt with by bringing cycles and cyclists into the same
legal framework as motor vehicles.

<howls of anguish, cries of ‘unfair!’, ‘I’ll look like a tit!’>

--
Spike

OldRidgeback | 4486 posts | 3 hours ago
2 likes

I commute on two wheels along some very busy arterial roads in South London and have done for many years. What always strikes me is how many cars I filter past on my 26km journey. And it's of note how many of them have just one person inside too. People commuting by car seem to have no understanding of how long they sit waiting in traffic queues. On the few occasions I've had to use my car, either to take or get something from the office, the different in commute time is substantial.

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> OldRidgeback | 4486 posts | 3 hours ago
> 2 likes
>
> I commute on two wheels along some very busy arterial roads in South
> London and have done for many years. What always strikes me is how many
> cars I filter past on my 26km journey. And it's of note how many of them
> have just one person inside too. People commuting by car seem to have no
> understanding of how long they sit waiting in traffic queues. On the few
> occasions I've had to use my car, either to take or get something from
> the office, the different in commute time is substantial.

And? Do you expect a medal or something?

--
Spike

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 1:28:00 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
> OldRidgeback | 4486 posts | 3 hours ago
> 2 likes
>
> I commute on two wheels along some very busy arterial roads in South London and have done for many years. What always strikes me is how many cars I filter past on my 26km journey. And it's of note how many of them have just one person inside too. People commuting by car seem to have no understanding of how long they sit waiting in traffic queues. On the few occasions I've had to use my car, either to take or get something from the office, the different in commute time is substantial.

As long as cyclists are not "holding them up" they will happily sit there for hours on end.
Most odd.

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 1:28:00 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
>> OldRidgeback | 4486 posts | 3 hours ago
>> 2 likes
>>
>> I commute on two wheels along some very busy arterial roads in South
>> London and have done for many years. What always strikes me is how many
>> cars I filter past on my 26km journey. And it's of note how many of them
>> have just one person inside too. People commuting by car seem to have no
>> understanding of how long they sit waiting in traffic queues. On the few
>> occasions I've had to use my car, either to take or get something from
>> the office, the different in commute time is substantial.

> As long as cyclists are not "holding them up" they will happily sit there for hours on end.

In the warm, in the dry, relaxing music on the stereo, not suffering the
burping, farting, sneezing, or coughing of close-packed passengers on
grubby public transport; or need to have a shower and change of clothes
after locking up the bicycle.

> Most odd.

Not really…

--
Spike

mattw replied to Gimpl | 727 posts | 1 day ago
6 likes

It isn't a blanket reduction - don't believe what you hear on GB News and Motohoon Youtube Channels.

It is a change of default, with provision for exceptions where Local Highway Authorities deem appropriate. It applies to around 1/3 of roads and streets by mileage only.

Plus we have very robust data that 20mph limits, reasonably enforced, do wonders for road safety. See the ROSPA Factsheet on 20mph limits and road safety.

In short - what's not to like? The only thing I don't like is that we unfortunately have a neanderthal and cycnical Govt in England.

I don't trust the petition. The moto lobby in England (55 million people vs 3 million in Wales) are all tripping over themselves to sign it. And there is no verification against fake postcodes.

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> mattw replied to Gimpl | 727 posts | 1 day ago
> 6 likes

> I don't trust the petition. The moto lobby in England (55 million people
> vs 3 million in Wales) are all tripping over themselves to sign it. And
> there is no verification against fake postcodes.

Where does one sign up? You missed out the url.

--
Spike

Steve K | 1739 posts | 4 hours ago
0 likes

I think we have a winner for a comment from my local "Next Door" discussion on all things War on Motorists. 20mph roads are "too slow and too safe"

:-0

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steve K | 1739 posts | 4 hours ago
> 0 likes
>
> I think we have a winner for a comment from my local "Next Door"
> discussion on all things War on Motorists. 20mph roads are "too slow and too safe"
>
> :-0

Perhaps they don’t want to look like tits - something that cyclists
understand.

--
Spike

On 27/09/23 23:31, Spike wrote:
> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>> On 27/09/23 11:29, Spike wrote:
>>> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
>>>>> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>>>>>> 5 likes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>>>>>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>>>>>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>>>>>
>>>> They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
>>>> watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.
>>>
>>> That’s not very PC…
>>>
>> I am not PC.
>> Do you want me not to stop at red lights, so that I can be PC?
>
> You seem to have shifted the goalposts there.
>
EH?
This thread seems to be about bicyclists and red lights. Some other
aspects were added, such as floosies and PC, but it is still about
bicyclists and red lights.

On 28/09/23 09:55, Spike wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steve K | 1739 posts | 4 hours ago
>> 0 likes
>>
>> I think we have a winner for a comment from my local "Next Door"
>> discussion on all things War on Motorists. 20mph roads are "too slow and too safe"
>>
>> :-0
>
> Perhaps they don’t want to look like tits - something that cyclists
> understand.
>
I do not give a fuck about looking like a tit.
I ride my bicycle.

On 28/09/23 02:58, Spike wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 1:28:00 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
>>> OldRidgeback | 4486 posts | 3 hours ago
>>> 2 likes
>>>
>>> I commute on two wheels along some very busy arterial roads in South
>>> London and have done for many years. What always strikes me is how many
>>> cars I filter past on my 26km journey. And it's of note how many of them
>>> have just one person inside too. People commuting by car seem to have no
>>> understanding of how long they sit waiting in traffic queues. On the few
>>> occasions I've had to use my car, either to take or get something from
>>> the office, the different in commute time is substantial.
>
>> As long as cyclists are not "holding them up" they will happily sit there for hours on end.
>
> In the warm, in the dry, relaxing music on the stereo, not suffering the
> burping, farting, sneezing, or coughing of close-packed passengers on
> grubby public transport; or need to have a shower and change of clothes
> after locking up the bicycle.
>
>> Most odd.
>
> Not really…
>
There is no actual 'need' to have a shower and a change of clothes.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:45:10 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote:

> >
> There is no actual 'need' to have a shower and a change of clothes.

Exactly - I got a shower at home before I set off for work.
Why would I need another one 35 minutes later?

Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
> On 27/09/23 23:31, Spike wrote:
>> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>>> On 27/09/23 11:29, Spike wrote:
>>>> Peter Keller <muzhmuzh@centrum.sk> wrote:
>>>>> On 26/09/23 10:10, Spike wrote:
>>>>>> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> belugabob | 360 posts | 2 hours ago
>>>>>>> 5 likes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most cyclists know this, as they've witnessed MGIF drivers simply get to
>>>>>>> the next set of traffic lights earlier. The traffic light sequence is
>>>>>>> what truly dictates average traffic speeds
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would cyclists be interested in red travel lights?
>>>>>>
>>>>> They are very pretty. They are a signal for me to stop so that I can
>>>>> watch the delicious miniskirted floosies walking by.
>>>>
>>>> That’s not very PC…
>>>>
>>> I am not PC.
>>> Do you want me not to stop at red lights, so that I can be PC?
>>
>> You seem to have shifted the goalposts there.
>>
> EH?
> This thread seems to be about bicyclists and red lights. Some other
> aspects were added, such as floosies and PC, but it is still about
> bicyclists and red lights.

Nope, you shifted the goalposts by introducing ‘delicious miniskirted
floosies ‘…

--
Spike