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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

SubjectAuthor
* Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
| `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
||`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
||+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
||+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|||`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
||`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
||`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|| `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
| `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
||`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|| `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
|+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
+* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
|+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
|+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
|`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
| `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 | +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 | +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 | |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 | `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |  +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |  `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   |+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   |`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | | `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |  +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |  `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |   +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |   +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |   `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |    +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |    `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |     |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |     +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |+- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |     |`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     | +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     | `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |  +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |     |  +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |  |`* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     |  | `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |     |  +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |  |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     |  +* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |  |`- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | |     |  +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     |  `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |     `* Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killedSimon Mason
 |   | |      +- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   | |      `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 |   | `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike
 |   `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclistJNugent
 `- Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries afterSpike

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Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

<0d4e7638-94a9-491d-9a0f-ff1e6026b159n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 18:09 UTC

Low-traffic neighbourhoods, which use filters to try to reduce motor traffic on residential streets, do not disproportionately benefit more privileged communities, the most comprehensive study of their rollout so far has concluded.

The research, which examined about 400 filters created in London last year, seemingly demolishes the main argument by opponents of such schemes: that they tend to shunt vehicles from richer residential areas on to roads lived in by more deprived people.

One media report last month used an analysis of house prices to support this objection, saying homes tended to be more expensive in streets that benefited from low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs). Controversy over the neighbourhoods, created in cities across the UK by using planters or bollards to prevent through-traffic while leaving the route open for cyclists and walkers, has led to several being scrapped.

But the new study, led by Rachel Aldred, a professor of transport at Westminster University in London, uses detailed and sophisticated data to compare streets, including occupants’ age, ethnicity, disability, employment and car ownership, and the government’s index of multiple deprivation, down to micro-areas of about 300 residents.

Aldred’s team examined all LTNs introduced in the capital between March and September, and found that across the city, people in the most deprived quarter of areas were 2.7 times more likely to live in one of the new LTNs than the least deprived quarter of people.

People without cars were more likely to live in an LTN overall, and black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) Londoners were slightly more likely to than white residents, although this varied by ethnicity, with Asian people slightly less likely to do so than white locals.

At the very local level, the research found, people living inside LTNs tended to be demographically similar to those living just outside it, on streets that connected with an LTN boundary road.

Amid the general figures there was significant variation between local areas over equity, Aldred found, although the median district was more likely to have the most deprived areas in an LTN than the least deprived.

The research, the team concluded, showed that the rollout of LTNs in London had been “broadly equitable at the city level and at the micro level but not always at the district level”.

Groups campaigning for more walking and cycling said the findings meant LTNs should be created more widely, rather than scrapped because of objections, often from a minority of residents.

Mary Creagh, the chief executive of Living Streets, said: “National policymakers and politicians must ensure this levelling up approach is baked into the upcoming rollout of LTNs, so that more people, from all walks of life, can enjoy the health benefits that come from safer, cleaner and less congested streets.”

Simon Munk, a senior infrastructure campaigner at London Cycling Campaign, said the research “adds to the growing body of evidence that demonstrates how important low-traffic neighbourhoods are to improving Londoners’ lives”.

He said: “The boroughs and the mayor must ensure all of these measures are delivered equitably, and this research shows that most schemes delivered in the last year have been. The damaging impact of unnecessary motor traffic across London is felt unequally, and schemes like these help address this.”

However many residents in and around LTNs may continue to have objections. When the Guardian asked readers what they thought of the schemes last year, although many had positive views, we also heard of worries over traffic gridlock and increased pollution around the projects. Some were concerned about negatives impacts on local businesses, or that delivery services might be held up.

Contacted by the Guardian about the findings, Ian Barnes, the deputy leader of Enfield council, said: “Our first LTNs have been implemented in areas where there has been considerable contact and representation from residents in local communities who have asked us about the possibility of introducing an LTN, which has meant plans were further in their development.

“We have plans to engage with residents across the borough to identify future areas for LTNs, including the eastern part of Enfield. The council has recently invested in a major segregated cycling project in the less affluent wards in the borough which provides foundations for more LTN projects.”

The mayor of Hackney, Philip Glanville, said: “This new research helps dispel some of the myths about low-traffic neighbourhoods and sets out why, for us, taking action on air quality and sustainable travel is a social justice issue”.

Late last year, Aldred led a separate study that examined the equity of LTNs by data based on demographic differences between people who live on residential streets and main roads. The research showed there were few that could be detected.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
Date: 14 Nov 2023 19:17:16 GMT
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 by: Spike - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 19:17 UTC

Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid> wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) reduce traffic and air pollution
>> without displacing the problem to nearby streets, new research has shown.
>
>> The study by researchers at Imperial College London looked at three LTNs
>> in London, to identify their impact on both air pollution and traffic
>> within the LTN zones and in the surrounding area.
>
> The first question to ask here is: what was the source of the funding for
> this work?

The Acknowledgements section says this:

“Acknowledgements
We would like to thank Islington Council for their provision of data for
this study and for their support throughout the research process.”

So the source of the funding remains unclear.

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

<8cbfe3b3-f192-4670-9c7a-60dbf1ec533dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 20:04 UTC

> QUOTE:
> But the new study, led by Rachel Aldred, a professor of transport at Westminster University in London, uses detailed and sophisticated data to compare streets, including occupants’ age, ethnicity, disability, employment and car ownership, and the government’s index of multiple deprivation, down to micro-areas of about 300 residents. ENDS

I showed Rachel around the cycling facilities in Hull in 2006 when we had 140 20mph zones around the city.

QUOTE: A council spokesperson says: "Hull City Council has been a pioneer in implementing speed reduction methods. From the mid 1990’s, the council has embarked on a sustained programme of three main schemes that have made our roads safer and seen speed reduction implemented throughout the city. ENDS

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/every-road-hull-cut-20mph-2388710

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
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 by: Spike - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 22:04 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> Low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) reduce traffic and air pollution
> without displacing the problem to nearby streets, new research has shown.

> The LTNs – in St Peter’s, Canonbury and Clerkenwell – were put in place
> between July and September 2020. The team analysed data gathered from
> July 2019 to February 2021. The research is published in Transportation Research Part D.
>
> Because each of the LTNs was set up at a different time and not all
> monitoring sites gathered data continuously, averaging out the results
> between the three LTNs would not provide an accurate overall picture. So
> the team carried out a more complex statistical analysis.

“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better
experiment”
Ernest Rutherford

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:09 UTC

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 8:04:12 PM UTC, Simon Mason wrote:
> > QUOTE:
> > But the new study, led by Rachel Aldred, a professor of transport at Westminster University in London, uses detailed and sophisticated data to compare streets, including occupants’ age, ethnicity, disability, employment and car ownership, and the government’s index of multiple deprivation, down to micro-areas of about 300 residents. ENDS
>
> I showed Rachel around the cycling facilities in Hull in 2006 when we had 140 20mph zones around the city.
>
> QUOTE: A council spokesperson says: "Hull City Council has been a pioneer in implementing speed reduction methods. From the mid 1990’s, the council has embarked on a sustained programme of three main schemes that have made our roads safer and seen speed reduction implemented throughout the city. ENDS
>
> https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/every-road-hull-cut-20mph-2388710

From 1994, there was a widespread introduction of 20mph zones in Hull, and by 2003, there were 120 zones
covering 500 streets. The casualty statistics between 1994 and 2001 showed a drop of 14% in Hull, compared
to a rise of 1.5% in the rest of Yorkshire and Humberside. In the 20mph zones in Hull, there was a decrease in
total accidents of 56% and in fatal and serious injuries of 90%. The biggest reductions were pedestrian
casualties, which fell by 54%, child casualties, which dropped by 54% and child pedestrian casualties, which fell
by 74%. These figures were reported in Local Transport Today.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
Date: 15 Nov 2023 09:09:57 GMT
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 by: Spike - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:09 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 8:04:12 PM UTC, Simon Mason wrote:
>>> QUOTE:
>>> But the new study, led by Rachel Aldred, a professor of transport at
>>> Westminster University in London, uses detailed and sophisticated data
>>> to compare streets, including occupants’ age, ethnicity, disability,
>>> employment and car ownership, and the government’s index of multiple
>>> deprivation, down to micro-areas of about 300 residents. ENDS
>>
>> I showed Rachel around the cycling facilities in Hull in 2006 when we
>> had 140 20mph zones around the city.
>>
>> QUOTE: A council spokesperson says: "Hull City Council has been a
>> pioneer in implementing speed reduction methods. From the mid 1990’s,
>> the council has embarked on a sustained programme of three main schemes
>> that have made our roads safer and seen speed reduction implemented
>> throughout the city. ENDS
>>
>> https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/every-road-hull-cut-20mph-2388710
>
> From 1994, there was a widespread introduction of 20mph zones in Hull,
> and by 2003, there were 120 zones
> covering 500 streets. The casualty statistics between 1994 and 2001
> showed a drop of 14% in Hull, compared
> to a rise of 1.5% in the rest of Yorkshire and Humberside. In the 20mph
> zones in Hull, there was a decrease in
> total accidents of 56% and in fatal and serious injuries of 90%. The
> biggest reductions were pedestrian
> casualties, which fell by 54%, child casualties, which dropped by 54% and
> child pedestrian casualties, which fell
> by 74%. These figures were reported in Local Transport Today.

No data here on changes in levels of traffic…🙄

For example, if casualties drop by 10% but traffic drops by 15%, then the
rate of casualties has gone up!

Always look for the missing data…

Is it easy to drive around Hull instead of through it?

--
Spike

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:41 UTC

QUOTE: It comes as Cllr Paul West's call to implement 20mph zones where needed was backed at the same meeting East Riding Council's full meeting. Cllr West said it was part of the Safer Roads Humber push towards getting zero deaths on local roads.

Cllr Hammond said: "North Dalton is a beautiful village. It has a great pub, village hall, pond and church.

"All of which are sadly located on a very tight bend in the centre of the village. The layout of this bend dictates that any sensible driver would not go around it at the allowed 30mph speed limit.

"But many do, and we regularly get complaints of vehicles crashing into walls and gardens. There's also high pedestrian footfall, so it should be 20mph.ENDS

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
Date: 15 Nov 2023 14:42:23 GMT
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 by: Spike - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:42 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> QUOTE: It comes as Cllr Paul West's call to implement 20mph zones where
> needed was backed at the same meeting East Riding Council's full meeting.
> Cllr West said it was part of the Safer Roads Humber push towards getting
> zero deaths on local roads.

Zero road deaths is an unattainable goal. Road deaths were happening in
the time of the Romans, and they rarely reached as much as 20mph.

It’s a great slogan for those who wish to virtue-signal, though.

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
killed
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:01:17 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:01 UTC

On 15/11/2023 11:41 am, Simon Mason wrote:

> QUOTE: It comes as Cllr Paul West's call to implement 20mph zones where needed was backed at the same meeting East Riding Council's full meeting. Cllr West said it was part of the Safer Roads Humber push towards getting zero deaths on local roads.
>
> Cllr Hammond said: "North Dalton is a beautiful village. It has a great pub, village hall, pond and church.
>
> "All of which are sadly located on a very tight bend in the centre of the village. The layout of this bend dictates that any sensible driver would not go around it at the allowed 30mph speed limit.
>
> "But many do, and we regularly get complaints of vehicles crashing into walls and gardens. There's also high pedestrian footfall, so it should be 20mph.ENDS

So what's the problem in implementing a realistic 20mph limit for a few
tens of yards?

Other than that chav-cyclists like yourself will take pleasure in
boasting that you deliberately exceed the limit, particularly where it
passes schools and particularly on FOOTways?

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:26 UTC

A huge row is raging in Wales after a controversial 20mph speed limit was brought in on residential roads. Supporters say it will save lives and reduce pollution, while opponents argue it will have a negative impact on businesses and the economy.

So how would people feel if the 30mph speed limit was reduced to 20mph on residential roads in Hull and other urban areas around East Yorkshire? To find out, BBC Look North spoke to a driving instructor and people in Newland Avenue, where the speed limit has been set at 20mph for many years.

While there are no plans to bring in such a blanket change in England, councils have long had to consider reducing speed limits in streets where road safety is an issue. But while some Hull people welcomed the idea of more 20mph zones, others described it as a "war on motorists".

Paula, a driving instructor who regularly takes learners on 20mph roads, said: "Some people will think that it is overly cautious and I guess it depends where they roll it out. If a child or a person was knocked over at 20 miles an hour, they're going to stand much more chance of surviving, probably up to like 95 per cent."

Asked if the 20mph speed limit in Newland Avenue had made a difference, one local woman said she thought it made it safer, but "ultimately there are still more cars on the streets". She added: "A lot of kids don't play out like they used to."

Another woman said: "I think it's good in principle, but I don't think people will stick to the 20 miles per hour."

One male driver said he tried to avoid Newland Avenue because of the 20mph limit. "There's a lot of congestion," he added. "It's already hard to park. People are just using the off streets as cut-throughs.

In Wales, nearly 400,000 people have signed a petition to rescind the new 20mph law, amid claims from some motorists that it is causing "gridlock" and is "completely disorganised". However, the Welsh government says the measure will save up to 100 lives and 20,000 casualties in the first decade, while saving the NHS in Wales £92 million a year.

In England, the Liberal Democrats say they would back moves to reduce speed limits in local communities, if it can be shown that there is public support for the measure. Sir Ed Davy, the Lib Dem leader, told reporter Tim Iredale that people who had been consulted on the idea in his constituency liked the idea of reduced air polliution and increased road safety, particularly families living around schools.

Comments sent in to Look North suggest that the issue will continue to divide opinion. Daniel said: "I agree with the 20mph zone but in reality it will not be policed. Don't hold your breath for this to be a success."

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
killed
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:44:39 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:44 UTC

On 15/11/2023 04:26 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> A huge row is raging in Wales after a controversial 20mph speed limit was brought in on residential roads. Supporters say it will save lives and reduce pollution, while opponents argue it will have a negative impact on businesses and the economy.
>
> So how would people feel if the 30mph speed limit was reduced to 20mph on residential roads in Hull and other urban areas around East Yorkshire? To find out, BBC Look North spoke to a driving instructor and people in Newland Avenue, where the speed limit has been set at 20mph for many years.
>
> While there are no plans to bring in such a blanket change in England, councils have long had to consider reducing speed limits in streets where road safety is an issue. But while some Hull people welcomed the idea of more 20mph zones, others described it as a "war on motorists".
>
> Paula, a driving instructor who regularly takes learners on 20mph roads, said: "Some people will think that it is overly cautious and I guess it depends where they roll it out. If a child or a person was knocked over at 20 miles an hour, they're going to stand much more chance of surviving, probably up to like 95 per cent."
>
> Asked if the 20mph speed limit in Newland Avenue had made a difference, one local woman said she thought it made it safer, but "ultimately there are still more cars on the streets". She added: "A lot of kids don't play out like they used to."
>
> Another woman said: "I think it's good in principle, but I don't think people will stick to the 20 miles per hour."
>
> One male driver said he tried to avoid Newland Avenue because of the 20mph limit. "There's a lot of congestion," he added. "It's already hard to park. People are just using the off streets as cut-throughs.
>
> In Wales, nearly 400,000 people have signed a petition to rescind the new 20mph law, amid claims from some motorists that it is causing "gridlock" and is "completely disorganised". However, the Welsh government says the measure will save up to 100 lives and 20,000 casualties in the first decade, while saving the NHS in Wales £92 million a year.
>
> In England, the Liberal Democrats say they would back moves to reduce speed limits in local communities, if it can be shown that there is public support for the measure. Sir Ed Davy, the Lib Dem leader, told reporter Tim Iredale that people who had been consulted on the idea in his constituency liked the idea of reduced air polliution and increased road safety, particularly families living around schools.
>
> Comments sent in to Look North suggest that the issue will continue to divide opinion. Daniel said: "I agree with the 20mph zone but in reality it will not be policed. Don't hold your breath for this to be a success."

Quite what this has to do with lorries delivering goods to business
premises (see thread title) is completely unclear, but imposing a 20mph
limit in a purely residential "destination" street is probably
uncontroversial. In many streets with on-street parking, 20 is probably
at the upper end of what can be done safely.

It's things like reducing the speed limit on a wide dual carriageway
(Park Lane, W1, between Marble Arch and Hyde Park Corner) from 40mph to
20 mph which proves what arrant loonies are in charge of some of our
cities, counties and other local governmental units.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:58 UTC

Hull has implemented 20 MPH zones, selecting areas based on speeding-related collisions. From 1994 there was widespread introduction of 20mph zones in Hull with 120 zones covering 500 streets in place by 2003. As a result in these areas there was a decrease in total accidents of 56%, with fatal and serious injuries reducing by 90% Pedestrian casualties fell by 54%. (BCC September 13 Briefing, p. 3)

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
Date: 15 Nov 2023 21:16:53 GMT
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 by: Spike - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 21:16 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hull has implemented 20 MPH zones, selecting areas based on
> speeding-related collisions. From 1994 there was widespread introduction
> of 20mph zones in Hull with 120 zones covering 500 streets in place by
> 2003. As a result in these areas there was a decrease in total accidents
> of 56%, with fatal and serious injuries reducing by 90% Pedestrian
> casualties fell by 54%. (BCC September 13 Briefing, p. 3)

But what was the fall in traffic?

Without that information the above numbers mean nothing.

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 21:37 UTC

A grandmother has called for speed bumps on a Hull road after witnessing a number of crashes.

Anne Smith, who lives off Runnymede Lane in Kingswood, said drivers were regularly exceeding the 20mph limit and some were abusive when challenged.

She is appealing for speed bumps, more signs, crossings and other measures.

Hull City Council said speeding regulations were in place but it would always work with local people to address any concerns.

The 69-year-old said she feared for her grandchildren's safety, saying she had seen drivers lose control of their cars.

"We're not just talking about people doing 24mph, there's people doing 40mph or 50mph," she told the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

"We've had someone ram into a road sign in Runnymede Lane at 06:00 in the morning, because they were driving too fast.

"From my kitchen window, I've also seen a car skid and do a 360-degree turn, and then just drove off. People here have been bringing these issues up more and more.

"There's nowhere safe for children to cross the road, if they're going to the primary schools of Kingswood Academy there's nowhere safe for them to cross on Runnymede Lane because there's no straight stretches."

Ms Smith said that people suffered abuse when they signalled to the cars to slow down.

"When I've put my hand out to drivers going too fast, I've had effing and blinding, swearing and all sorts," she said.

"But it's not just boy racers doing this, it could be anyone. It tends to happen from about 06.30 to 08.30. Some of the drivers have been women doing the school run.

The council said safety works had been done on roads in the area and the authority was aware of concerns.

"Several areas of Kingswood are subject to a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO), making side streets 20mph, and main spine routes 30mph," a spokesperson said.

"The council is aware of the need to monitor traffic and speeding issues as Kingswood expands. It will always look to work with residents to address their concerns."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-66325847

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
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 by: Spike - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:06 UTC

Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid> wrote:
> Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hull has implemented 20 MPH zones, selecting areas based on
>> speeding-related collisions. From 1994 there was widespread introduction
>> of 20mph zones in Hull with 120 zones covering 500 streets in place by
>> 2003. As a result in these areas there was a decrease in total accidents
>> of 56%, with fatal and serious injuries reducing by 90% Pedestrian
>> casualties fell by 54%. (BCC September 13 Briefing, p. 3)

> But what was the fall in traffic?

> Without that information the above numbers mean nothing.

If casualties fall by 50% and traffic falls by 60%, then the rate of
casualties had gone up!

So the data quoted above is…useless, except to bamboozle the gullible.
Successfully, it would seem…

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
killed
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:46:35 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:46 UTC

On 15/11/2023 05:58 pm, Simon Mason wrote:
>
> Hull has implemented 20 MPH zones, selecting areas based on speeding-related collisions. From 1994 there was widespread introduction of 20mph zones in Hull with 120 zones covering 500 streets in place by 2003. As a result in these areas there was a decrease in total accidents of 56%, with fatal and serious injuries reducing by 90% Pedestrian casualties fell by 54%. (BCC September 13 Briefing, p. 3)

This is at least the second time you have posted the same stream of
consciousness inside twenty-four hours.

What IS the point?

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
killed
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:51 UTC

On 15/11/2023 09:37 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> A grandmother has called for speed bumps on a Hull road after witnessing a number of crashes.
> Anne Smith, who lives off Runnymede Lane in Kingswood, said drivers were regularly exceeding the 20mph limit

Radar vision?

> and some were abusive when challenged.

Attacking people because of your imagination as to their speed is never
going to end well.

If you doubt that, try (as an interesting parallel) tackling a chav on a
chav-bike who is heading along a FOOTway or who has just gone through a
red traffic light.

> She is appealing for speed bumps, more signs, crossings and other measures.
> Hull City Council said speeding regulations were in place but it would always work with local people to address any concerns.
> The 69-year-old said she feared for her grandchildren's safety, saying she had seen drivers lose control of their cars.
> "We're not just talking about people doing 24mph, there's people doing 40mph or 50mph," she told the Local Democracy Reporting Service.
> "We've had someone ram into a road sign in Runnymede Lane at 06:00 in the morning, because they were driving too fast.

Was she there, watching?

At 06:00?

Has she actually got a life?
>
> "From my kitchen window, I've also seen a car skid and do a 360-degree turn, and then just drove off. People here have been bringing these issues up more and more.

Are you sure she isn't in the Streets of San Francisco?

> "There's nowhere safe for children to cross the road, if they're going to the primary schools of Kingswood Academy there's nowhere safe for them to cross on Runnymede Lane because there's no straight stretches."
> Ms Smith said that people suffered abuse when they signalled to the cars to slow down.
> "When I've put my hand out to drivers going too fast, I've had effing and blinding, swearing and all sorts," she said.

She could hear all that while the vehicle sped past her?

Never mind radar vision; has she got super-hearing as well?
>
> "But it's not just boy racers doing this, it could be anyone. It tends to happen from about 06.30 to 08.30. Some of the drivers have been women doing the school run.

The school run from 06:30?

Is she alright in the head?

> The council said safety works had been done on roads in the area and the authority was aware of concerns.
> "Several areas of Kingswood are subject to a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO), making side streets 20mph, and main spine routes 30mph," a spokesperson said.
> "The council is aware of the need to monitor traffic and speeding issues as Kingswood expands. It will always look to work with residents to address their concerns."
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-66325847
>

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 08:01 UTC

QUOTE: "When I've put my hand out to drivers going too fast, I've had effing and blinding, swearing and all sorts," she said. ENDS

Surely you don't think they will care about mowing children down?
It's what they do.
Every day.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
cyclist killed
Date: 16 Nov 2023 10:05:04 GMT
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 by: Spike - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 10:05 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> QUOTE: "When I've put my hand out to drivers going too fast, I've had
> effing and blinding, swearing and all sorts," she said. ENDS
>
> Surely you don't think they will care about mowing children down?
> It's what they do.
> Every day.

Are you talking about cyclists now? All that ‘Get out of the way I’m not
effing stopping’?

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:30 UTC

A PROFESSOR of sustainable transport and former Green Party election council candidate has called on Herefordshire to adopt the Wales-wide approach to 20mph residential speed limits.

The move by John Whitelegg, visiting professor of sustainable transport at Liverpool John Moores University comes as Public Health England rates Herefordshire as “significantly worse than the England average” for road-related deaths and serious injuries.

Professor Whitelegg, who stood unsuccessfully for the Greens in Arrow ward in May, is organising a public meeting in Hereford next week in a bid to build support for the idea.

A House of Commons report, reducing the speed limit from 30 to 20mph can drastically decrease the likelihood of pedestrian fatalities from collisions, he says, with the odds dropping from one in two to one in ten.

John Whitelegg said: “Herefordshire Council agreed to support the 20mph policy in March 2020, but 41 months later there is no sign of implementation.”

While the Welsh Government is set to enforce 20mph limits in built-up areas from September 20, citing both public health and safety benefits, England is no stranger to such restrictions.

Over 20 million residents in England, including those in Lancashire, Oxfordshire, and Cornwall, already reside in 20mph zones.

John Harrington, the county’s head of transport in November 2021, mentioned that the initiative had not been advanced “due to resource constraints”.

Local trials were conducted in areas like Cusop and Pembridge.

The Welsh Conservative Twitter account voiced its opinion on the matter, stating, “Welsh Conservatives support 20mph speed limits in heavily pedestrianised areas, but a blanket 20mph speed limits across Wales is simply ludicrous.”

In addition, a consultation report commissioned by the Welsh Government, said the move in Wales could cost the national economy up to £4.5 billion over the next 30 years, due to slower delivery times and other factors.

Safety is the main argument for the policy. Data from Hull, where 20mph zones were introduced extensively, showed a 56 per cent decrease in total accidents by 2003 and a 90 per cent reduction in fatal and serious injuries. London’s 20mph zones also witnessed a 42 per cent reduction in injury accidents and a 53 per cent drop in fatal or serious accidents.

Air quality is another factor. While driving at 30mph is more fuel-efficient than 20mph, the reality in residential areas is different due to frequent stops and starts. Research from Imperial College London found that 20mph speed limits had no negative impact on exhaust emissions, with smoother driving resulting in fewer particulate emissions.

These particulate emissions, especially PM2.5, are of significant concern as they can penetrate the lungs and enter the bloodstream, potentially leading to various health conditions.

The cost of implementing the 20mph limit, estimated at £32.5 million, is anticipated to be quickly offset by the economic savings from reduced road casualties.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: aero.spike@btinternet.invalid (Spike)
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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after
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 by: Spike - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 13:14 UTC

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> A PROFESSOR of sustainable transport and former Green Party election
> council candidate has called on Herefordshire to adopt the Wales-wide
> approach to 20mph residential speed limits.

No sh1t!

--
Spike

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:09 UTC

An East Riding village plagued by regular car crashes into people's walls and gardens is among those where the speed limit should be lowered to 20mph, a councillor has said.

Conservative Cllr Leo Hammond said the B1246's sharp bend through North Dalton was an example of where 20mph limits were needed as councillors backed calls to extend them. Labour's Cllr Steve Gallant said he was hoping to get funding to pilot a 20mph scheme in Hedon, adding a lack of cash often made lowering speed limits difficult.

It comes as Cllr Paul West's call to implement 20mph zones where needed was backed at East Riding Council's full meeting. Cllr West said it was part of the Safer Roads Humber push towards getting zero deaths on local roads.

Cllr West said: "‘Some people may feel that this is too much, my response to that is one death is too much. It is a fact that a pedestrian or a driver has more chance of surviving a collision if a car is driving at 20 to 25 miles per hour, than if a car is travelling at 30 to 35 miles per hour."

Cllr Hammond said he had roads like the one running through North Dalton in mind when it came to places where 20mph limits would work. But he added he did not believe in a blanket approach to speed limits as some 30mph roads were fine as they are.

Cllr Hammond said: "North Dalton is a beautiful village. It has a great pub, village hall, pond and church.

"All of which are sadly located on a very tight bend in the centre of the village. The layout of this bend dictates that any sensible driver would not go around it at the allowed 30mph speed limit.

"But many do, and we regularly get complaints of vehicles crashing into walls and gardens. There's also high pedestrian footfall, so it should be 20mph

"However in some places 30mph is absolutely fine. Having blanket 20mph limits would devalue their impact."

Cllr Gallant said enforcement measures needed for 20mph roads and dwindling budgets for them meant implementation was a challenge. He said: "The council's traffic calming budget is only around £80,000 a year, it used to be about a quarter of a million.

"I've got a meeting with Police and Crime Commissioner Jonathan Evison to find a way to introduce a 20mph zone in Hedon as a pilot for the whole of the East Riding. Edinburgh introduced 20mph limits five years ago and there's been a 70 per cent reduction in collisions and pedestrian accidents and injuries."

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/cars-crashing-walls-gardens-beautiful-8808506

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:30:20 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:30 UTC

On 16/11/2023 11:30 am, Simon Mason wrote:

> A PROFESSOR of sustainable transport and former Green Party election council candidate has called on Herefordshire to adopt the Wales-wide approach to 20mph residential speed limits.
> The move by John Whitelegg, visiting professor of sustainable transport at Liverpool John Moores University comes as Public Health England rates Herefordshire as “significantly worse than the England average” for road-related deaths and serious injuries.
> Professor Whitelegg, who stood unsuccessfully for the Greens in Arrow ward in May,

"stood for the Greens"?

It is hardly suggestive of much by way of common sense or general
concern for the welfare of others, is it?

> is organising a public meeting in Hereford next week in a bid to build support for the idea.

What has Liverpool to do with Herefordshire?
>
> A House of Commons report, reducing the speed limit from 30 to 20mph can drastically decrease the likelihood of pedestrian fatalities from collisions, he says, with the odds dropping from one in two to one in ten.
> John Whitelegg said: “Herefordshire Council agreed to support the 20mph policy in March 2020, but 41 months later there is no sign of implementation.”
> While the Welsh Government is set to enforce 20mph limits in built-up areas from September 20, citing both public health and safety benefits, England is no stranger to such restrictions.
> Over 20 million residents in England, including those in Lancashire, Oxfordshire, and Cornwall, already reside in 20mph zones.

How many people "reside" in Albert Embankment?

Or in Park Lane, SW1?

> John Harrington, the county’s head of transport in November 2021, mentioned that the initiative had not been advanced “due to resource constraints”.
> Local trials were conducted in areas like Cusop and Pembridge.
> The Welsh Conservative Twitter account voiced its opinion on the matter, stating, “Welsh Conservatives support 20mph speed limits in heavily pedestrianised areas, but a blanket 20mph speed limits across Wales is simply ludicrous.”
> In addition, a consultation report commissioned by the Welsh Government, said the move in Wales could cost the national economy up to £4.5 billion over the next 30 years, due to slower delivery times and other factors.
> Safety is the main argument for the policy. Data from Hull, where 20mph zones were introduced extensively, showed a 56 per cent decrease in total accidents by 2003 and a 90 per cent reduction in fatal and serious injuries. London’s 20mph zones also witnessed a 42 per cent reduction in injury accidents and a 53 per cent drop in fatal or serious accidents.
> Air quality is another factor. While driving at 30mph is more fuel-efficient than 20mph, the reality in residential areas is different due to frequent stops and starts. Research from Imperial College London found that 20mph speed limits had no negative impact on exhaust emissions, with smoother driving resulting in fewer particulate emissions.
> These particulate emissions, especially PM2.5, are of significant concern as they can penetrate the lungs and enter the bloodstream, potentially leading to various health conditions.
> The cost of implementing the 20mph limit, estimated at £32.5 million, is anticipated to be quickly offset by the economic savings from reduced road casualties.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist
killed
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:31:22 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:31 UTC

On 16/11/2023 04:09 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> An East Riding village plagued by regular car crashes into people's walls and gardens is among those where the speed limit should be lowered to 20mph, a councillor has said.
>
> Conservative Cllr Leo Hammond said the B1246's sharp bend through North Dalton was an example of where 20mph limits were needed as councillors backed calls to extend them. [ ... ]

And if that were the way in which such limits were used and implemented,
there would be MUCH LESS criticism of them.

Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed

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Subject: Re: Coroner orders council to act over parked lorries after cyclist killed
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 by: Simon Mason - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 18:02 UTC

Opposition to Wirral’s new 20mph zones is growing louder as a new petition calls for Wirral Council to reverse its plans.

The local authority is planning to reduce the speeds on nearly 1,000 roads in what will be the second of four phases to roll out new zones across the Wirral, with more than 1,700 roads already moved over to the new limit.

The first phase passed smoothly in January with full support from all political parties at an environment committee meeting. The rollout is part of a wider strategy aiming to get the number of people killed or seriously injured (KSI) on roads down to zero by 2040 across the Liverpool City Region.

It is being funded through the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority and is money set aside for the purpose of rolling out new 20mph zones. Data from Merseyside Police found 100 people were involved in KSIs in 2021.

However anger has been growing louder with the council challenged on the issue regularly at meetings and a petition now calling for it to reconsider the scheme getting nearly 900 signatures. Some Conservative councillors have also publicly criticised the plans.

At a council meeting on July 24, several people compared the policy to that of former Soviet communist countries, a whitewash, and antidemocratic. The Liverpool City Region’s Vision Zero strategy to reduce collisions was also labelled as “extreme, alarmist, and totally unattainable" by some of those objecting to the 20mph schemes.

A consultation on the first phase found opposition to every proposed zone but only two received responses from more than 100 people. At the meeting, Wirral resident Anthony Pritchard called the consultation a “failure” arguing many were unaware of the plans succeeding in “creating public confusion and distrust.”

David Felton said: "What is the exact number of people needed to object or the exact proportion of respondents required to stop further 20mph zones from being introduced?"

Councils have had the power to introduce new 20mph zones since 1999 without applying to the government for permission. However the Guardian recently reported government ministers are now considering placing restrictions on council’s abilities to roll out new zones.

According to Queen’s University Belfast, there is evidence that 20mph zones “were associated with a reduction in the number and severity of collisions and casualties” but evidence impacting air pollution and physical activity was insufficient.

A study in Kingston Upon Hull found people walked and cycled more and 60% felt more children played outside as a result. An uncontrolled review of 20mph zones in Hull saw a 56% reduction in total collisions and a reduction of 90% in fatal and serious injuries with the biggest drop being child casualties falling by 74% over the seven year period.

In 1997, a trial of 27 councils in Scotland also found the number of reported accidents every year reduced by 13 with serious or fatal accidents reducing by 6%.

Following a rollout of 20mph zones on 94% of 30mph zones in Portsmouth, half of roads saw a decrease in average speed though 37% did see an increase.

A study looking at the Portsmouth scheme did find perceptions were mixed with 54% saying there had been no change in people’s speed but 40% said they had dropped. However, decreases in casualties on roads in Portsmouth was 8% more than the national average.

However those against the rollout argue “a blanket reduction in speed limits is not an effective solution for our community” and is “based on anecdotal evidence rather than comprehensive studies.”

Alan Jones, the man behind the new petition said: “We request that before implementing such significant changes, the council conducts thorough research and analysis on local accident data, road conditions, and traffic flow patterns.”

They have also argued the rollout is an inefficient use of resources, may result in more congestion, disrupt emergency services, and lead to longer journey times. There are also concerns it “may divert police resources from addressing more pressing issues such as anti-social behaviour or serious crimes within our community.”

He also said: “Studies have shown that simply reducing speed limits does not necessarily lead to a significant decrease in accidents or fatalities unless combined with other road safety measures like improved signage visibility, pedestrian crossings enhancements, or driver education campaigns.”

This is echoed by a Transport Research Laboratory report that showed sign-only schemes only saw speeds reduced by 1km per hour compared to an average of 4km per hour in zones with traffic calming measures. Wirral Council has said such measures would only be considered after signs and lines were installed.

A report by the Department for Transport in 2018 said 20mph zones were most appropriate for quieter streets where people would likely comply with the new rules and police enforcement was key to ensure speeds reduced.

For journey times, most only increase by 1 minute when zones are rolled out according to the Welsh Government. Wirral Council has also said there would be little impact on buses and no anticipated impact on taxi fares.

A January report on the first phase of the scheme said a feasibility study had been done with automatic traffic counts at 200 locations across the Wirral before the rollout began. The report said when planning the rollout, “consideration was given to the feel of the area, what amenities it contains, assessing the impact on surrounding roads and potential collision reduction.”

Environment committee chair Cllr Liz Grey on July 24 said the policy was agreed by the environment committee and at a full council meeting, adding: “It is accepted that 20mph saves lives and that any delays for drivers are likely to be around one minute per person per day.

“With car crashes being the main killer of children and young people as well as a significant cause of death and injury for adults, I would suggest that a minute’s delay is a small price to pay for saving lives.”

She said the consultation had been advertised on local press, social media, emails to residents and on our website, adding: “Results are not ignored. This was not a referendum and all objections were noted and responded to, and where appropriate informed further planning.

“However objections must be valid on the grounds of traffic movement and access and cannot simply be because people do not simply want something.”

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/opposition-grows-new-petition-launched-27461139


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