I have been watching the original series of NCIS on Amazon Prime and got
to series 18 when I can no longer watch without paying for individual
episodes or finding a subscription that includes series 18 & 19.

I find it pretty well impossible to see from any listings what the
different services offer, they all to want you to sign up for 5 minutes
free then pay.

Do people in here have subscriptions? If so do you switch them if a series
you follow changes provider or do you have buckets of subscriptions?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Have you ever noticed that all the instruments searching for intelligent
life are pointing away from Earth?

On 30 May 2023 21:34:33 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
>I have been watching the original series of NCIS on Amazon Prime and got
>to series 18 when I can no longer watch without paying for individual
>episodes or finding a subscription that includes series 18 & 19.
>
>I find it pretty well impossible to see from any listings what the
>different services offer, they all to want you to sign up for 5 minutes
>free then pay.
>
>Do people in here have subscriptions? If so do you switch them if a series
>you follow changes provider or do you have buckets of subscriptions?

I joined Amazon Prime years ago when I checked how much stuff I was
ordering from them anyway and realised the delivery savings would be
worth having. I then realised they had a lot of TV and movies I could
watch for nothing extra so I built a PC specifically for this (which
has subsequently been replaced by various streaming devices).

Later I subscribed to Netflix, and have found quite a lot of good
stuff there.

I've also subscribed to All4+ because they have a good selection of
foreign dramas with subtitles and for a small payment you can watch
them without adverts.

Recently I've tried Disney+ though so far I haven't found very much
that interests me there, so I might cancel that one. Also, I find the
user interface to be the least friendly of all the ones I've tried so
far, but maybe that's just me. If I'm choosing a movie or TV drama to
watch on any streaming service, I find the best way is to use a laptop
with IMDB to check the details of any that look interesting, because
the streaming services themselves don't show much on the screen.

I realise of course that there are more subscription channels than any
sensible person would subscribe to all at once, so there are lots of
programmes I will never see, but this was always the way, if you think
about it, even when we only had broadcasts. Internet streaming has
simply opened our eyes to the vast amount of stuff that's available
from all over the world but nobody will live long enough to watch. We
simply have to get used to this idea just as we accept that there are
more books than anyone could possibly read. Each of us can only live
our own life and experience our own experiences.

It now seems quaintly oldfashioned to have to wait till a programme is
broadcast before watching it, even if I set a machine to record it
automatically for me. With streaming services I don't even need to
bother with recordings because they've already been done for me and I
can watch them whenever I want to on equipment with no moving parts.

I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
things first...

Rod.

In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
<big snip>
>I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
>need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>things first...

I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I turn
75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
> Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
> <big snip>
>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
>> need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>> things first...
>
> I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I turn
> 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.

Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
universal.

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 10:32:16 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7...@4ax.com>, Roderick
> > Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
> > <big snip>
> >> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
> >> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
> >> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
> >> need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
> >> things first...
> >
> > I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I turn
> > 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
> Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
> universal.

There is loads of this, cheap broadband, free TV license, reduced council tax (you still get a whole vote though), housing benefit etc., but only if you were imprudent enough before retirement to be able to claim benefits. Any savings etc. well spend them - a sort of tax after the fact.

On 31/05/2023 in message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>
Roderick Stewart wrote:

>I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
>need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>things first...

Many thanks for that very extensive reply Rod :-)

When I was about 5 there was a choice of watching BBC in B&W or listening
to the wireless, it's much more complex now. I like the idea of starting
with IMDB to see where things are and your parting comment brings home how
relatively expensive the BBC tax is!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
How does a gender neutral bog differ from a unisex bog ?
It has a non-binary number on the door.

In message <kdoigtFkoiaU1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
<hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>> <big snip>
>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's
>>>a need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>things first...
>> I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I
>>turn 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>
>Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
>universal.

Oh, I didn't know that. Is that a recent change or has it always been
the case?
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Wed, 31 May 2023 16:32:35 +0100, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <kdoigtFkoiaU1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
><hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>>On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>>Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>> <big snip>
>>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>>years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>>this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's
>>>>a need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>>things first...
>>> I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I
>>>turn 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>>
>>Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
>>universal.
>
>Oh, I didn't know that. Is that a recent change or has it always been
>the case?

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/free-tv-licences
--
Roger

In message <7ose7i5i8ehps9t24mvjoto1p3clopta75@4ax.com>, Roger
<invalid@invalid.invalid> writes
>On Wed, 31 May 2023 16:32:35 +0100, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <kdoigtFkoiaU1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
>><hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>>>On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>>>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>>>Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>> <big snip>
>>>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>>>years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>>>this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's
>>>>>a need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>>>things first...
>>>> I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I
>>>>turn 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>>>
>>>Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
>>>universal.
>>
>>Oh, I didn't know that. Is that a recent change or has it always been
>>the case?
>
>https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/free-tv-licences

Thanks. So it's not "and", as Norman suggested, but "or". So I should
get my free licence.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On 31/05/2023 18:05, John Hall wrote:
> In message <7ose7i5i8ehps9t24mvjoto1p3clopta75@4ax.com>, Roger
> <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 16:32:35 +0100, John Hall
>> <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <kdoigtFkoiaU1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
>>> <hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>>>> On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>>>>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>>>> Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>>>> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>>>> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's
>>>>>> a  need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>>>> things first...
>>>>>  I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I
>>>>> turn  75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>>>>
>>>> Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit.  It's not
>>>> universal.
>>>
>>> Oh, I didn't know that. Is that a recent change or has it always been
>>> the case?
>>
>> https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/free-tv-licences
>
> Thanks. So it's not "and", as Norman suggested, but "or". So I should
> get my free licence.

I think you need to read it again.

Especially the bit that says:

"You can get a free TV licence if you’re 75 or older *and* you either:

- get Pension Credit
- live with your partner who gets Pension Credit".

In message <kdpo5rFqmg9U1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
<hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>On 31/05/2023 18:05, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <7ose7i5i8ehps9t24mvjoto1p3clopta75@4ax.com>, Roger
>><invalid@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 16:32:35 +0100, John Hall
>>> <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <kdoigtFkoiaU1@mid.individual.net>, Norman Wells
>>>> <hex@unseen.ac.am> writes
>>>>> On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>>>>>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>>>>> Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>>>>> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>>>>> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's
>>>>>>> a  need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>>>>> things first...
>>>>>>  I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I
>>>>>> turn  75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit.  It's not
>>>>> universal.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I didn't know that. Is that a recent change or has it always been
>>>> the case?
>>>
>>> https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/free-tv-licences
>> Thanks. So it's not "and", as Norman suggested, but "or". So I
>>should get my free licence.
>
>
>I think you need to read it again.
>
>Especially the bit that says:
>
>"You can get a free TV licence if you’re 75 or older *and* you either:
>
> - get Pension Credit
> - live with your partner who gets Pension Credit".
>

Yes, you're right. Sorry! How on Earth did I manage to misread it when
reading it again it seems perfectly clear?
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

I stopped watching it when three of the main characters left.
Its not the same any more, too much agro and soul searching. They are
running them on one of the terrestrial channels but apart from having AD as
standard, the stories are crap. I think its time to pension it off.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:xn0o2gyfkbjp19b00n@news.individual.net...
>
> I have been watching the original series of NCIS on Amazon Prime and got
> to series 18 when I can no longer watch without paying for individual
> episodes or finding a subscription that includes series 18 & 19.
>
> I find it pretty well impossible to see from any listings what the
> different services offer, they all to want you to sign up for 5 minutes
> free then pay.
>
> Do people in here have subscriptions? If so do you switch them if a series
> you follow changes provider or do you have buckets of subscriptions?
>
> --
> Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
> Have you ever noticed that all the instruments searching for intelligent
> life are pointing away from Earth?

I must say I think you are right. In my view once one of the main
characters becomes a producer the programme starts to go downhill as
he/she will naturally push their own character forward all the time.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If Björn & Benny had been called Syd and Dave then ABBA would have been
called ASDA.

On 01/06/2023 in message <u59o5d$2oij9$1@dont-email.me> Brian Gaff wrote:

>I stopped watching it when three of the main characters left.
>Its not the same any more, too much agro and soul searching. They are
>running them on one of the terrestrial channels but apart from having AD
>as standard, the stories are crap. I think its time to pension it off.
>Brian

Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
own a receiver.

I don't subscribe merely cos when we all had videos, you were often still
looking at the Christmas at Easter. There now so many other things to do
than watch TV, and people are doing that. I can see a huge crash coming if
every company thinks we will pay yet another subscription, merely to watch
stuff. I was quite impressed with Apple TV, but still not enough to pay them
any money for it.
Offcom were interviewed the other day saying that they will regulate
streaming stations in order to preserve more free to air content, they also
mooted that many of the companies are being urged world wide to combine
their subscriptions to make it easier to actually find stuff. Good luck with
that, I thought.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6jud7idhcg82c6ll7rrhkknknk4g9dpe04@4ax.com...
> On 30 May 2023 21:34:33 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have been watching the original series of NCIS on Amazon Prime and got
>>to series 18 when I can no longer watch without paying for individual
>>episodes or finding a subscription that includes series 18 & 19.
>>
>>I find it pretty well impossible to see from any listings what the
>>different services offer, they all to want you to sign up for 5 minutes
>>free then pay.
>>
>>Do people in here have subscriptions? If so do you switch them if a series
>>you follow changes provider or do you have buckets of subscriptions?
>
> I joined Amazon Prime years ago when I checked how much stuff I was
> ordering from them anyway and realised the delivery savings would be
> worth having. I then realised they had a lot of TV and movies I could
> watch for nothing extra so I built a PC specifically for this (which
> has subsequently been replaced by various streaming devices).
>
> Later I subscribed to Netflix, and have found quite a lot of good
> stuff there.
>
> I've also subscribed to All4+ because they have a good selection of
> foreign dramas with subtitles and for a small payment you can watch
> them without adverts.
>
> Recently I've tried Disney+ though so far I haven't found very much
> that interests me there, so I might cancel that one. Also, I find the
> user interface to be the least friendly of all the ones I've tried so
> far, but maybe that's just me. If I'm choosing a movie or TV drama to
> watch on any streaming service, I find the best way is to use a laptop
> with IMDB to check the details of any that look interesting, because
> the streaming services themselves don't show much on the screen.
>
> I realise of course that there are more subscription channels than any
> sensible person would subscribe to all at once, so there are lots of
> programmes I will never see, but this was always the way, if you think
> about it, even when we only had broadcasts. Internet streaming has
> simply opened our eyes to the vast amount of stuff that's available
> from all over the world but nobody will live long enough to watch. We
> simply have to get used to this idea just as we accept that there are
> more books than anyone could possibly read. Each of us can only live
> our own life and experience our own experiences.
>
> It now seems quaintly oldfashioned to have to wait till a programme is
> broadcast before watching it, even if I set a machine to record it
> automatically for me. With streaming services I don't even need to
> bother with recordings because they've already been done for me and I
> can watch them whenever I want to on equipment with no moving parts.
>
> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
> need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
> things first...
>
> Rod.

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>own a receiver.

No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
*broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.

There's a lot of misunderstanding about this, which the BBC and their
licence collecting agencies do nothing to dispel. This is hardly
surprising since it's in their financial interests to sell as many
licences as they can, regardless of who actually needs one. You don't
need a licence to watch recorded material on streaming services, with
the sole exception being BBC iPlayer.

You'll need a screen to display what you watch of course, the biggest
and best available being sold as TV sets rather than just display
monitors, so it's almost impossible to buy a screen of any size that
doesn't include a TV tuner even if you never use it, but you don't
need a licence just to own one of these.

Rod.

On 31/05/2023 12:00, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 10:32:16 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
>> On 31/05/2023 10:17, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <6jud7idhcg82c6ll7...@4ax.com>, Roderick
>>> Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>> <big snip>
>>>> I haven't watched any broadcast TV at all for at least a couple of
>>>> years, and very little of what I do watch has been from the BBC, so
>>>> this might be the year I decide to ditch the BBC licence. If there's a
>>>> need to economise, it makes sense to get rid of the most expensive
>>>> things first...
>>>
>>> I'm happy that this year the BBC licence will be ditching me, as I turn
>>> 75 in September and my next renewal isn't due till after that.
>> Only if you or your partner are in receipt of pension credit. It's not
>> universal.
>
> There is loads of this, cheap broadband, free TV license, reduced council tax (you still get a whole vote though), housing benefit etc., but only if you were imprudent enough before retirement to be able to claim benefits. Any savings etc. well spend them - a sort of tax after the fact.

Like a lot of these will be unclaimed. Deadline 30 June.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/claim-your-energy-voucher-day-launches-final-push-to-get-remaining-130-million-in-support-to-prepayment-meter-customers

£400 ...

--
Adrian C

On 01/06/2023 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>> own a receiver.
>
> No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
> *broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.

You actually need a licence to 'install' a television receiver too,
whatever that means these days.

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:04:55 +0100, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:

>On 01/06/2023 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>>> own a receiver.
>>
>> No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
>> *broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.
>
>You actually need a licence to 'install' a television receiver too,
>whatever that means these days.

What if you 'install' one while you have a licence, and then cancel
the licence? You wouldn't then need to install a TV without a licence
because you'd just be using what was already there.

What if I 'install' a TV set as a display monitor and don't connect
the tuner? What if the tuner is connected but I don't use it?

It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up. It's an
absolutely ridiculous system.

Rod.

Well, not always, but the problem is that the production folk seem not to
know why their viewers watch, and then wonder why people stop watching. NCIS
had a number of characters who seemed to work well together, all are now no
longer in it, and it is basically just like all the other shows now, and you
have used up the good stories.
At least with the CSI franchises, there were enough of the originals left
and indeed some came back again, and they were fun. The oddest one I never
could get into was CSI Miami, whose boss had raging ginger hair, was big and
had a bloody cannon for a hand gun. I maintain most of the plots were in
fact from old fashioned Western films with modern attributes added.
The thought of a real CSI being allowed to go around with a gun blasting
people was ludicrous. I thought CSI Cyber had more legs, but it only seemed
to last a couple of series, but it had some very good actors in it.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:xn0o2kn3i2s48l000@news.individual.net...
>
> I must say I think you are right. In my view once one of the main
> characters becomes a producer the programme starts to go downhill as
> he/she will naturally push their own character forward all the time.
>
> --
> Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
> If Bj�rn & Benny had been called Syd and Dave then ABBA would have been
> called ASDA.
>
> On 01/06/2023 in message <u59o5d$2oij9$1@dont-email.me> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>>I stopped watching it when three of the main characters left.
>>Its not the same any more, too much agro and soul searching. They are
>>running them on one of the terrestrial channels but apart from having AD
>>as standard, the stories are crap. I think its time to pension it off.
>>Brian

On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:04:55 +0100, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
> wrote:
>
>> On 01/06/2023 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>>>> own a receiver.
>>>
>>> No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
>>> *broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.
>>
>> You actually need a licence to 'install' a television receiver too,
>> whatever that means these days.
>
> What if you 'install' one while you have a licence, and then cancel
> the licence? You wouldn't then need to install a TV without a licence
> because you'd just be using what was already there.

Well, what the law says is:

"A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence"

It's a matter for debate whether 'be installed' is passive and means
present in an installed state, or whether it is active and only covers
the process of installation whatever that may be.

> What if I 'install' a TV set as a display monitor and don't connect
> the tuner? What if the tuner is connected but I don't use it?

If it has a tuned in tuner, it is clearly capable of receiving TV
signals with minimal effort, and I would say that's the critical point.
Otherwise, you could just pull the aerial out of the back or turn it off
and allege it wasn't installed, which I don't think would attract much
sympathy in court.

> It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
> to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up. It's an
> absolutely ridiculous system.

Detection is different from illegality.

On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:04:55 +0100, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
> wrote:
>> On 01/06/2023 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>>>> own a receiver.
>>>
>>> No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
>>> *broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.
>>
>> You actually need a licence to 'install' a television receiver too,
>> whatever that means these days.
>
> What if you 'install' one while you have a licence, and then cancel
> the licence? You wouldn't then need to install a TV without a licence
> because you'd just be using what was already there.

You take the valves out and put them in a drawer.

--
Max Demian

On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
> It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
> to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up.
>

Enforcement officers rarely seek and get a warrant from the
Magistrates/Sheriffs but when they do so they are most definitely
entitled to enter and search your home.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 12:15:50 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>
>> It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
>> to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up.
>>
>
>Enforcement officers rarely seek and get a warrant from the
>Magistrates/Sheriffs but when they do so they are most definitely
>entitled to enter and search your home.

Wouldn't they have to be accompanied by a police officer? It would
then actually be the police officer who obtains and serves the
warrant. As far as I know, the 'licence enforcement officers' despite
their grandiose title are actually just salesmen and have no more
legal rights than any other member of the general public. Do you think
you or I could obtain a warrant to enter somebody else's home?

Whoever is legally entitled to apply for warrants, I don't think
they're just handed out like sweeties, otherwise the goons would just
turn up with bundles of them and march in wherever they felt like it.
There would surely have to be some reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing
of some sort, at least partially based on evidence.

Rod.

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 11:08:58 +0100, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:

>On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:04:55 +0100, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/06/2023 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 10:33:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Under the current arrangements its hard to ditch bbc, as its a licence to
>>>>> own a receiver.
>>>>
>>>> No it isn't. It's a licence to *use* a receiver to receive television
>>>> *broadcasts*. You don't need a licence to own one.
>>>
>>> You actually need a licence to 'install' a television receiver too,
>>> whatever that means these days.
>>
>> What if you 'install' one while you have a licence, and then cancel
>> the licence? You wouldn't then need to install a TV without a licence
>> because you'd just be using what was already there.
>
>Well, what the law says is:
>
>"A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
>installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence"
>
>It's a matter for debate whether 'be installed' is passive and means
>present in an installed state, or whether it is active and only covers
>the process of installation whatever that may be.

Good. Then there's room to dispute any fatuous accusation.

>> What if I 'install' a TV set as a display monitor and don't connect
>> the tuner? What if the tuner is connected but I don't use it?
>
>If it has a tuned in tuner, it is clearly capable of receiving TV
>signals with minimal effort, and I would say that's the critical point.
>Otherwise, you could just pull the aerial out of the back or turn it off
>and allege it wasn't installed, which I don't think would attract much
>sympathy in court.

I couldn't pull the aerial out of my TV set because there isn't one
plugged into it. The Freeview disk recorders still have aerial feeds
plugged in but they've been switched off for more than a year, and I
have no intention of unplugging anything to appease someone who has no
right to ask. As I'm not obliged to prove any of this to anyone, and
nobody has the untrammelled right to inspect it, I can't imagine how
the matter would ever get near a court.

Having the capability to do something is not the same as doing it.

>> It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
>> to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up. It's an
>> absolutely ridiculous system.
>
>Detection is different from illegality.

Understood and agreed, but so what? I'm not doing anything illegal,
and if anyone thought I was, the burden of proof would be upon them. I
think the principle of 'innocent unless proven guilty' still applies.

Rod.

In article <cc5fad46-fbe6-3e56-c63d-0233d5ebf076@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 02/06/2023 10:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >
> > It's all academic anyway, as nobody has the right to enter your home
> > to inspect how you have your hi-fi/AV equipment set up.
> >

> Enforcement officers rarely seek and get a warrant from the
> Magistrates/Sheriffs but when they do so they are most definitely
> entitled to enter and search your home.

HMRC Officers don't even need a warrant if they suspect contraband is
being held on the premises.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle