Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product. Does
anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?

Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
as the SNOM300) ?

--
Graham J

On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 09:42:53 +0000, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

>Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product. Does
>anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>
>Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>as the SNOM300) ?

I think it is proprietory, but this is not a problem for me because I
just plugged my existing BT phone into the socket on the back and it
works exactly as before. Sound quality is at least as good as the
landline, if not slightly better. Wi-fi range and speed are slightly
better than with the Draytek modem/router I had before, which
surprised me because I thought Draytek was supposed to be good.

The Fritzbox includes a DECT base station, but I couldn't get a BT
handset to work with it. Fritz FON handsets are available but they're
expensive and the arrangement I already have does what I need so I
probably won't bother to investigate further.

Rod.

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product. Does
> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>
> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
> as the SNOM300) ?

I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a rebrand
of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.

No personal experience, though.

Theo

On Friday, 3 March 2023 at 12:18:21 UTC, Theo wrote:
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> > Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product. Does
> > anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
> >
> > Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
> > Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
> > as the SNOM300) ?
> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a rebrand
> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
> own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.

Same with BT's digital line.

>
> No personal experience, though.
>
> Theo

On 03 Mar 2023 12:18:17 +0000 (GMT)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> > Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.
> > Does anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
> >
> > Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
> > Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone
> > (such as the SNOM300) ?
>
> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
> rebrand of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials
> to use your own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.
>
> No personal experience, though.
>
> Theo

I am hazy abut how this all works, but I notice that Zen's website
refers to SOGEA, it this makes any sense.
--
Davey.

Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 03 Mar 2023 12:18:17 +0000 (GMT)
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.
> > > Does anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
> > >
> > > Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
> > > Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone
> > > (such as the SNOM300) ?
> >
> > I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
> > rebrand of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials
> > to use your own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.
> >
> > No personal experience, though.
>
> I am hazy abut how this all works, but I notice that Zen's website
> refers to SOGEA, it this makes any sense.

SOGEA is VDSL without analogue voice. In practice that means that customers
on SOGEA have to either take the digital voice product or do without (or do
their own thing with a third party provider).

According to Zen:
https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d

"Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
inconvenience caused."

so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
be done through them.

This is why it makes a lot of sense to use a third party for VOIP, and
so it's no longer tied to whatever happens with your line or ISP.

Theo

On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product. Does
>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>
>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>> as the SNOM300) ?
>
> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a rebrand
> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
> own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.
>

You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.

I found all the details I would need to setup VoIP but as the fritzbox
works just fine with hardwired phones I did not bother.

On 04 Mar 2023 13:19:46 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>According to Zen:
>https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
>
>"Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
>full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
>inconvenience caused."
>
>so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
>to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
>be done through them.

Which is not a problem if you have no need to upgrade your router
because it works perfectly well for what you are using it for.

Rod.

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:52:54 +0000
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 04 Mar 2023 13:19:46 +0000 (GMT), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >According to Zen:
> >https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
> >
> >"Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our
> >fritzbox in full router mode and not with any other router,
> >apologies for any inconvenience caused."
> >
> >so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you
> >want phone to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your
> >router it has to be done through them.
>
> Which is not a problem if you have no need to upgrade your router
> because it works perfectly well for what you are using it for.
>
> Rod.

As it does with me. I do not need anything complicated, if it works,
that's all I need, and so far, it has been faultless.
--
Davey.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03 Mar 2023 12:18:17 +0000 (GMT)
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.
>>>> Does anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>
>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone
>>>> (such as the SNOM300) ?
>>>
>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>> rebrand of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials
>>> to use your own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.
>>>
>>> No personal experience, though.
>>
>> I am hazy abut how this all works, but I notice that Zen's website
>> refers to SOGEA, it this makes any sense.
>
> SOGEA is VDSL without analogue voice. In practice that means that customers
> on SOGEA have to either take the digital voice product or do without (or do
> their own thing with a third party provider).
>
> According to Zen:
> https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
>
> "Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
> full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
> inconvenience caused."
>
> so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
> to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
> be done through them.
>
> This is why it makes a lot of sense to use a third party for VOIP, and
> so it's no longer tied to whatever happens with your line or ISP.
>

Pretty much the same argument for not using an email address provided by
your ISP. When we eventually move to FTTP (probably with Zen), I suspect
I’ll be porting my number elsewhere.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 03 Mar 2023 12:18:17 +0000 (GMT)
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.
>>>>> Does anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone
>>>>> (such as the SNOM300) ?
>>>>
>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>> rebrand of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials
>>>> to use your own VOIP hardware. So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>
>>>> No personal experience, though.
>>>
>>> I am hazy abut how this all works, but I notice that Zen's website
>>> refers to SOGEA, it this makes any sense.
>>
>> SOGEA is VDSL without analogue voice. In practice that means that customers
>> on SOGEA have to either take the digital voice product or do without (or do
>> their own thing with a third party provider).
>>
>> According to Zen:
>> https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
>>
>> "Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
>> full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
>> inconvenience caused."
>>
>> so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
>> to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
>> be done through them.
>>
>> This is why it makes a lot of sense to use a third party for VOIP, and
>> so it's no longer tied to whatever happens with your line or ISP.
>>
>
> Pretty much the same argument for not using an email address provided by
> your ISP. When we eventually move to FTTP (probably with Zen), I suspect
> I’ll be porting my number elsewhere.
>
> Tim
>

Exactly. ISPs are going to be using voice as a method of making it more
difficult to move to another ISP. I’ve consciously avoided bundling any
service, TV, phone, Internet, email. Zen have just decided to double the
price of my landline rental (it’s a line that carries no broadband) so I’ve
moved it to Andrews and Arnold voip for £1.50/month. I’ve further
subscribed to their sip2sim service which delivers the call to a mobile
sim. This for £2/month. A £40 desktop GSM phone arrives today. Admittedly
no use if you have no mobile reception at home. Call charges work out to
around 3p/min for national normal type calls. Almost all of our voice
traffic goes via our mobile phones, this is just a backup via a different
mobile carrier. At £3.50/month rental it seemed worth keeping the old
“landline”.

On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>
>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>
>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>> rebrand
>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>
>
> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>

You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
I have said will not work.

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
wrote:

>On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>
>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>
>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>> rebrand
>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>
>>
>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>
>
>You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>I have said will not work.

Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
phone service too?

Rod.

On 06/03/2023 08:38, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>> rebrand
>>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>
>>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>>
>> You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>> I have said will not work.
> Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
> code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
> phone service too?
>

Yes, but often to another propriety VoIP service

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 04 Mar 2023 13:19:46 +0000 (GMT), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >According to Zen:
> >https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
> >
> >"Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
> >full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
> >inconvenience caused."
> >
> >so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
> >to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
> >be done through them.
>
> Which is not a problem if you have no need to upgrade your router
> because it works perfectly well for what you are using it for.

People often moan that their ISP's wifi coverage isn't good enough, and
compare ISPs based on how strong their supplied router's wifi is. ISPs try
to upsell them based on a fancier router.

Of course it's possible to fit third party wifi access point(s) that don't
involve changing the router, but that's not how an awful lot of people see
it.

Theo

I find myself being mildly irritated when people seem think wi-fi comes down a cable to their house whereas of course it's broadband that comes in and the router that produces the wi-fi

On 06/03/2023 08:38, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>>
>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>> rebrand
>>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>>
>>
>> You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>> I have said will not work.
>
> Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
> code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
> phone service too?
>
> Rod.
I am personally happy with Zen but I presume you are right.

I was going to use sipgate but as the only reason we kept our landline
was to prevent certain people getting our mobile numbers. The VoIP
service is incoming only really.

The answering machine is a good way of screening calls.

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 08:43:07 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/03/2023 08:38, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>>>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>>> rebrand
>>>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>>
>>>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>>>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>>>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>>>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>>>
>>> You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>>> I have said will not work.
>> Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
>> code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
>> phone service too?
>>
>
>Yes, but often to another propriety VoIP service

Who cares, as long as it works?

Rod.

On 06/03/2023 13:22, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 08:43:07 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 06/03/2023 08:38, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>>>>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>>>> rebrand
>>>>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>>>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>>>>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>>>>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>>>>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>>>>
>>>> You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>>>> I have said will not work.
>>> Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
>>> code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
>>> phone service too?
>>>
>> Yes, but often to another propriety VoIP service
> Who cares, as long as it works?
Well, this sub thread is all about the ability to use your own hardware
rather than ISP supplied, or perhaps one of us has mis understood ?

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 04:05:43 -0800 (PST)
Murmansk <stainburn@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find myself being mildly irritated when people seem think wi-fi
> comes down a cable to their house whereas of course it's broadband
> that comes in and the router that produces the wi-fi

Only mildly? It seems to me to be a basic concept. Maybe they think
that everything works like a mobile.

--
Davey.

On Mon 06/03/2023 11:11, Theo wrote:
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 04 Mar 2023 13:19:46 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> According to Zen:
>>> https://community.ui.com/questions/Digital-Voice-Zen-Full-Fibre-on-UniFi-UDM/ea6c8812-6a08-4bc6-b825-a4046c4dbc9d
>>>
>>> "Unfortunately our digital voice service will only work with our fritzbox in
>>> full router mode and not with any other router, apologies for any
>>> inconvenience caused."
>>>
>>> so if you take Digital Voice you have to use their router if you want phone
>>> to work. It also means any time you want to upgrade your router it has to
>>> be done through them.
>>
>> Which is not a problem if you have no need to upgrade your router
>> because it works perfectly well for what you are using it for.
>
> People often moan that their ISP's wifi coverage isn't good enough, and
> compare ISPs based on how strong their supplied router's wifi is. ISPs try
> to upsell them based on a fancier router.
>
> Of course it's possible to fit third party wifi access point(s) that don't
> involve changing the router, but that's not how an awful lot of people see
> it.
>

Of course many people will have a router hanging around from their days
with another ISP. Few/almost none of them however will know how easy it
is to turn that router into an access point!

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 13:29:29 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/03/2023 13:22, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 08:43:07 +0000, Mark Carver
>> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/03/2023 08:38, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 15:32:07 +0000, grinch <grinch@sommewhere.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/03/2023 13:47, grinch wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/03/2023 12:18, Theo wrote:
>>>>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Zen offer a Fritzbox 7530 router to support their VoIP product.  Does
>>>>>>>> anybody here know whether the protocol they use is proprietary?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Further, has anybody here any experience with using their "Digital
>>>>>>>> Voice" product with an ordinary router and a standard VoIP phone (such
>>>>>>>> as the SNOM300) ?
>>>>>>> I think the conclusion from posts here was that it's SIP, but it's a
>>>>>>> rebrand
>>>>>>> of a service from BT, and they won't tell you the credentials to use your
>>>>>>> own VOIP hardware.  So it's their router or no voice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are correct, but its trivially simple to get the information you
>>>>>> need. From the fritzbox http://192.168.178.1/#sip_edit for the
>>>>>> user/server details and the password can be found from the telephony
>>>>>> tech part of your personal account login on the Zen website.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You can no longer get you VoIP password from the new Zen logon so what
>>>>> I have said will not work.
>>>> Presumably if you're not happy with Zen you could ask them for a MAC
>>>> code and migrate everything to another ISP? Wouldn't that migrate the
>>>> phone service too?
>>>>
>>> Yes, but often to another propriety VoIP service
>> Who cares, as long as it works?
>Well, this sub thread is all about the ability to use your own hardware
>rather than ISP supplied, or perhaps one of us has mis understood ?

I understand that, but what puzzles me is why anyone wouldn't want to
use the hardware supplied by the ISP if it does the job. It would make
sense to use something else if the supplied hardware was deficient in
some way, but what sort of deficiency are we considering here -
reliability? wi-fi coverage? or lack of some special feature that you
absolutely cannot manage without? Most people will just want the
ability to do the usual things like browse web pages and stream TV
programmes, in which case it would surely be easiest to use the kit
provided by the ISP, as it'll have been tested on their system, and
detailed help will be readily available if there are any problems.

Rod.

In article <ic8c0i1jlm37r8s5nslm2jnl5b10ki58vs@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> I understand that, but what puzzles me is why anyone wouldn't want
> to use the hardware supplied by the ISP if it does the job. It
> would make sense to use something else if the supplied hardware was
> deficient in some way, but what sort of deficiency are we
> considering here - reliability? wi-fi coverage? or lack of some
> special feature that you absolutely cannot manage without?

I'm sure for "most people" you are correct.

Myself, I use a few slightly less usual features like;
DHCP MAC address reservations.
Multiple Guest account Wi-Fi.
Mac filtering on Wi-Fi (yes, I know....)

Essential? No but I'd not be happy without them.
Then there is how well a router does things like DHCP reservations.

On my ISP router yes you can do it but it's very cumbersome and
quirky. You can only add a pairing for devices the normal router DHCP
has no record of. So if you connect something and then later wish to
set or change the ip address allocation you first have to get the
router to forget the device. That means disconnecting the device and
re-booting the router and doing that is painfully slow.

Similarly, my isp router does not give you the ability to decide if
the guest wi-fi accounts can "see" the main Lan items or not and the
guest accounts cannot be set to use IP addresses on a different
scheme to the main LAN. My own router can.

I don't consider any of those features unreasonable to expect from a
decent router but I agree, they're not common.

Bob.

On 06/03/2023 19:55, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <ic8c0i1jlm37r8s5nslm2jnl5b10ki58vs@4ax.com>,
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I understand that, but what puzzles me is why anyone wouldn't want
>> to use the hardware supplied by the ISP if it does the job. It
>> would make sense to use something else if the supplied hardware was
>> deficient in some way, but what sort of deficiency are we
>> considering here - reliability? wi-fi coverage? or lack of some
>> special feature that you absolutely cannot manage without?
> I'm sure for "most people" you are correct.
>
> Myself, I use a few slightly less usual features like;
> DHCP MAC address reservations.
> Multiple Guest account Wi-Fi.
> Mac filtering on Wi-Fi (yes, I know....)
>
> Essential? No but I'd not be happy without them.
> Then there is how well a router does things like DHCP reservations.
>
> On my ISP router yes you can do it but it's very cumbersome and
> quirky. You can only add a pairing for devices the normal router DHCP
> has no record of. So if you connect something and then later wish to
> set or change the ip address allocation you first have to get the
> router to forget the device. That means disconnecting the device and
> re-booting the router and doing that is painfully slow.
>
> Similarly, my isp router does not give you the ability to decide if
> the guest wi-fi accounts can "see" the main Lan items or not and the
> guest accounts cannot be set to use IP addresses on a different
> scheme to the main LAN. My own router can.
>
> I don't consider any of those features unreasonable to expect from a
> decent router but I agree, they're not common.
>
There's also the inability of some ISP supplied routers to set
alternative DNS servers.

Our lad is on Sky, there are a couple of websites (nothing dodgy either)
that Sky's DNS servers can't 'see', impossible to change the default
(other than setting it client side).

On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 19:55:10 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

>> I understand that, but what puzzles me is why anyone wouldn't want
>> to use the hardware supplied by the ISP if it does the job. It
>> would make sense to use something else if the supplied hardware was
>> deficient in some way, but what sort of deficiency are we
>> considering here - reliability? wi-fi coverage? or lack of some
>> special feature that you absolutely cannot manage without?
>
>I'm sure for "most people" you are correct.
>
>Myself, I use a few slightly less usual features like;
>DHCP MAC address reservations.
>Multiple Guest account Wi-Fi.
>Mac filtering on Wi-Fi (yes, I know....)
>
>Essential? No but I'd not be happy without them.
>Then there is how well a router does things like DHCP reservations.

Fair enough. You do whatever works for you. I haven't investigated
everything the Zen Fritzbox can do but I think it can manage a few
extras. The most customisation I've done is to change the local IP
address range and the SSID to what I had been using with the previous
router, deciding it would be less bother than changing all my
connected devices. I also like to use a fixed range of local addresses
for things that are actually fixed, such as the main desktop, TV
streamers etc, and allow DHCP to do its thing with laptops and phones
and everything else, and the Fritzbox can do this easily, so I'm happy
with that too.

When the internet was new, it was all fun and exciting and
interesting, so I read about it and experimented and tinkered about
with settings that should perhaps really be left alone, as I expect we
all do with new stuff, but eventually it has become a basic utility,
and all I want is something that just works. Maybe this means I'm
becoming more sensible, or maybe it's just a feature of old age.

Rod.