On 01/08/2023 22:11, William Stickers wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 31/07/2023 22:04, William Stickers wrote:
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 31/07/2023 21:14, William Stickers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your language is a dead giveaway.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're still only guessing. Now tell me how many fingers
>>>>> I'm holding up.
>>>>
>>>> Read my lips, your language is a dead giveaway.
>>>
>>> In English, what colour socks am I wearing?
>>
>> Read my lips, your language is a dead giveaway.
>
> Polly wanna cracker?
> FFS, I can't see your lips, dummy, so I can't read them,

Exactly, that's why I said it, because you can't see my lips, but I know
which way you voted because your language gives it away.

>>>>>> You have a vote, accept that you've used it unwisely, and use it more
>>>>>> wisely in future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only a couple of times have I voted for the winning
>>>>> candidate or side. There is always a losing side. That's
>>>>> democracy. I accept my vote lost and I don't bleat on
>>>>> about it for years afterwards. You seem to think that
>>>>> doing that will make a difference because you're an
>>>>> arsehole. It'll change no one's mind. And I'll continue
>>>>> to vote however I choose to and you can just lump it.
>>>>
>>>> And most probably you'll still get the shit government you deserve.
>>>
>>> We'll get the same government. Tough titties.
>>
>> Which is exactly what I'm complaining about, idiots voting for liars.
>
> All politicians lie, so every vote you've ever cast has
> been for a liar.

Not all politicians lie, and not all those that do betray the country
for personal gain when they do.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive wrote:
>
> On 01/08/2023 22:11, William Stickers wrote:
> > Java Jive wrote:
> >>
> >> On 31/07/2023 22:04, William Stickers wrote:
> >>> Java Jive wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 31/07/2023 21:14, William Stickers wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Java Jive wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your language is a dead giveaway.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're still only guessing. Now tell me how many fingers
> >>>>> I'm holding up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Read my lips, your language is a dead giveaway.
> >>>
> >>> In English, what colour socks am I wearing?
> >>
> >> Read my lips, your language is a dead giveaway.
> >
> > Polly wanna cracker?
> > FFS, I can't see your lips, dummy, so I can't read them,
>
> Exactly, that's why I said it, because you can't see my lips, but I know
> which way you voted because your language gives it away.

My language, (English), doesn't give away how I voted and
snipping like you have is a sure sign that you've lost
the argument.

>
> >>>>>> You have a vote, accept that you've used it unwisely, and use it more
> >>>>>> wisely in future.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only a couple of times have I voted for the winning
> >>>>> candidate or side. There is always a losing side. That's
> >>>>> democracy. I accept my vote lost and I don't bleat on
> >>>>> about it for years afterwards. You seem to think that
> >>>>> doing that will make a difference because you're an
> >>>>> arsehole. It'll change no one's mind. And I'll continue
> >>>>> to vote however I choose to and you can just lump it.
> >>>>
> >>>> And most probably you'll still get the shit government you deserve.
> >>>
> >>> We'll get the same government. Tough titties.
> >>
> >> Which is exactly what I'm complaining about, idiots voting for liars.
> >
> > All politicians lie, so every vote you've ever cast has
> > been for a liar.
>
> Not all politicians lie, and not all those that do betray the country
> for personal gain when they do.

You are naive. They all lie and most of them have their
noses in the trough, hungry for power and to line their
pockets.

>
> My language, (English), doesn't give away how I voted and
> snipping like you have is a sure sign that you've lost
> the argument.
>

and lost the vote SEVEN YEARS AGO - get over it

and ... the idea that you were "outnumbered by idiots" simply doesnt
hold water.

If the polls are to be believed then at least 5 million Remain
supporters simply didnt bother - maybe they were too clever to vote ?

If I had been beaten in any competition by people I thought of as idiots
then I would keep quiet about it, but you appear to rejoice in it - why ?

On 22/07/2023 13:15, Java Jive wrote:
> Mobile roaming charges: Ofcom proposes new rules to curb fees
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66256470
>
> "Mobile networks must tell people if they are going to be charged for
> using their phone abroad under new plans from the UK regulator.
>
> Ofcom wants people to be alerted about potential fees for roaming -
> using minutes, texts or data outside the UK.
>
> It says one in five people currently do not realise they face such fees
> when travelling.
>
> Under the plans, customers must also be told about any action they can
> take to limit roaming-related charges.
>
> Consumer groups say they are currently costing British phone users more
> than half a billion pounds a year.
>
> Ofcom says some mobile networks are charging people approximately £2 a
> day to use their phone abroad.
>
> It says it will make a decision on the new rules in 2024, and will give
> mobile providers six months to implement them."
>
> Ofcom months behind the problem as always.
>

I have just received an email from giffgaff which says (among other
things) ..

" Your data allowance can be used anywhere in the EU and selected
destinations just like you would at home, plus it comes with unlimited
calls and texts to standard rate numbers in the country you are in, as
well as back to the UK."

--
random signature text inserted here

On Wed 02/08/2023 15:44, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 13:15, Java Jive wrote:
>> Mobile roaming charges: Ofcom proposes new rules to curb fees
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66256470
>>
>> "Mobile networks must tell people if they are going to be charged for
>> using their phone abroad under new plans from the UK regulator.
>>
>> Ofcom wants people to be alerted about potential fees for roaming -
>> using minutes, texts or data outside the UK.
>>
>> It says one in five people currently do not realise they face such
>> fees when travelling.
>>
>> Under the plans, customers must also be told about any action they can
>> take to limit roaming-related charges.
>>
>> Consumer groups say they are currently costing British phone users
>> more than half a billion pounds a year.
>>
>> Ofcom says some mobile networks are charging people approximately £2 a
>> day to use their phone abroad.
>>
>> It says it will make a decision on the new rules in 2024, and will
>> give mobile providers six months to implement them."
>>
>> Ofcom months behind the problem as always.
>>
>
>
>
>
> I have just received an email from giffgaff which says (among other
> things) ..
>
> " Your data allowance can be used anywhere in the EU and selected
> destinations just like you would at home, plus it comes with unlimited
> calls and texts to standard rate numbers in the country you are in, as
> well as back to the UK."
>
>
>
I find that interesting as I've just looked at the GG web page (I am a
GG user) and find they limit data in the EU to 5GB for customers that
have a standard Goodybag of more than 5GB, thereafter you <may> be
charged 10p/MB - the emphasis is mine. The text above implies no data
limit when there is one?

I wonder why some other ISPs allow 12GB?

>> I have just received an email from giffgaff which says (among other
>> things) ..
>>
>> " Your data allowance can be used anywhere in the EU and selected
>> destinations just like you would at home, plus it comes with unlimited
>> calls and texts to standard rate numbers in the country you are in, as
>> well as back to the UK."
>>
>>
>>
> I find that interesting as I've just looked at the GG web page (I am a
> GG user) and find they limit data in the EU to 5GB for customers that
> have a standard Goodybag of more than 5GB, thereafter you <may> be
> charged 10p/MB - the emphasis is mine. The text above implies no data
> limit when there is one?
>
> I wonder why some other ISPs allow 12GB?

OK .... I hardly ever use any mobile data, so I make do with the £6
goodybag each month, which means I only get 2GB anyway - but that suits
me fine.

But of course that means theres no need for them to tell me about any
5GB limit, which I suppose is fair enough.

Interestingly, the mail goes on to say that the average giffgaff user
only gets through 2.32 GB when roaming - but then when you get down to
the small print it does mention a "5GB roaming allowance"

The point is that there should be no daily charge or "out of plan" bill
shock for moderate users.

Its also possible that not all of these emails are identical ?

--
random signature text inserted here

On 02/08/2023 08:04, William Stickers wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Exactly, that's why I said it, because you can't see my lips, but I know
>> which way you voted because your language gives it away.
>
> My language, (English), doesn't give away how I voted

You appear to be terminally naive.

> and
> snipping like you have is a sure sign that you've lost
> the argument.

It's a sure sign that 90% of what you write isn't worth quoting.

>> Not all politicians lie, and not all those that do betray the country
>> for personal gain when they do.
>
> You are naive. They all lie and most of them have their
> noses in the trough, hungry for power and to line their
> pockets.

Some is not all.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

>
> I cited the Daily Mail (Brexit exponent) crying about it.
>
> Anyway you may not care less, but millions are now experiencing Brexit reality - huge queues at Dover, higher imported and manually harvested food prices (set to get much worse from November) and shortages, fingerprint ID and visa requirements, small exporters forced out of busines and of course [the subject of this thread] bill shock when they get back from their two weeks in the sun and find out how much they have been ripped off for checking their emails and a couple of phone calls while away.
>
> They are going to cry all the way to the ballot box come the General Election.
>
> They will also be blubbing about inflation, NHS queues, energy prices, mortgage increases, higher taxes and much else.
>
> Oh and voting can change things - like rejoining the customs union to undo some of the damage.

Your periodic Brexit related rants might be therapeutic for you, but I
don’t understand why you include inflation and mortgage interest rates
in them.

The highest inflation rates in my lifetime and the highest mortgage
interest rates occurred during the 70s, shortly after we joined the EEC.

At one point inflation was more than double any (so far recorded) post
Brexit inflation rate.

At the time, a lot of this was blamed on us joining the EEC - and I
don’t suppose that VAT rates of up to 25% helped much, along with
decimalisation and the "Oil Crisis"

The house I currently live in was purchased with a mortgage which I
started in 1986, and ISTR that during the 20 years mortgage term the
interest rates went from 8% up to 15% and back again - all of it while
we were in the EU

Low interest rates (globally) are a relatively recent phenomenon and
probably have little to do with our relatively insignificant national
economy. Unfortunately I suspect that the largest "bill shock" ever is
yet to come for those in the early years of a mortgage, when interest
rates return to normal - whatever that is

Incidentally, while I was working in (West) Germany in 1974 the people I
worked with were blaming Britain’s entry in to the EEC for THEIR
inflation problems. And in spite of us being EEC members, I still had to
apply for a work permit in order to stay in the country

--
random signature text inserted here

Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
> > <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I cited the Daily Mail (Brexit exponent) crying about it.
> >
> > Anyway you may not care less, but millions are now experiencing Brexit reality - huge queues at Dover, higher imported and manually harvested food prices (set to get much worse from November) and shortages, fingerprint ID and visa requirements, small exporters forced out of busines and of course [the subject of this thread]
bill shock when they get back from their two weeks in the sun and find out how much they have been ripped off for checking their emails and a couple of phone calls while away.
> >
> > They are going to cry all the way to the ballot box come the General Election.
> >
> > They will also be blubbing about inflation, NHS queues, energy prices, mortgage increases, higher taxes and much else.
> >
> > Oh and voting can change things - like rejoining the customs union to undo some of the damage.
>
>
> Your periodic Brexit related rants might be therapeutic for you, but I
> don?t understand why you include inflation and mortgage interest rates
> in them.
>
>
> The highest inflation rates in my lifetime and the highest mortgage
> interest rates occurred during the 70s, shortly after we joined the EEC.
>
> At one point inflation was more than double any (so far recorded) post
> Brexit inflation rate.
>
> At the time, a lot of this was blamed on us joining the EEC - and I
> don?t suppose that VAT rates of up to 25% helped much, along with
> decimalisation and the "Oil Crisis"
>
> The house I currently live in was purchased with a mortgage which I
> started in 1986, and ISTR that during the 20 years mortgage term the
> interest rates went from 8% up to 15% and back again - all of it while
> we were in the EU
>
>
> Low interest rates (globally) are a relatively recent phenomenon and
> probably have little to do with our relatively insignificant national
> economy. Unfortunately I suspect that the largest "bill shock" ever is
> yet to come for those in the early years of a mortgage, when interest
> rates return to normal - whatever that is
>
>
> Incidentally, while I was working in (West) Germany in 1974 the people I
> worked with were blaming Britain?s entry in to the EEC for THEIR
> inflation problems. And in spite of us being EEC members, I still had to
> apply for a work permit in order to stay in the country

Some good facts there that are easily overlooked by those
looking for someone to blame.

On 03/08/2023 10:01, William Stickers wrote:
> Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>>
>>> <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I cited the Daily Mail (Brexit exponent) crying about it.
>>>

>
bill shock when they get back from their two weeks in the sun and find
out how much they have been ripped off for checking their emails and a
couple of phone calls while away.

There's a few people in this group who might do well to consider a
holiday FROM their phone, rather than a holiday WITH it

--
random signature text inserted here

On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 10:01:39 UTC+1, William Stickers wrote:
> Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> >
> > > <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I cited the Daily Mail (Brexit exponent) crying about it.
> > >
> > > Anyway you may not care less, but millions are now experiencing Brexit reality - huge queues at Dover, higher imported and manually harvested food prices (set to get much worse from November) and shortages, fingerprint ID and visa requirements, small exporters forced out of busines and of course [the subject of this thread]
> bill shock when they get back from their two weeks in the sun and find out how much they have been ripped off for checking their emails and a couple of phone calls while away.
> > >
> > > They are going to cry all the way to the ballot box come the General Election.
> > >
> > > They will also be blubbing about inflation, NHS queues, energy prices, mortgage increases, higher taxes and much else.
> > >
> > > Oh and voting can change things - like rejoining the customs union to undo some of the damage.
> >
> >
> > Your periodic Brexit related rants might be therapeutic for you, but I
> > don?t understand why you include inflation and mortgage interest rates
> > in them.
> >
> >
> > The highest inflation rates in my lifetime and the highest mortgage
> > interest rates occurred during the 70s, shortly after we joined the EEC..
> >
> > At one point inflation was more than double any (so far recorded) post
> > Brexit inflation rate.
> >
> > At the time, a lot of this was blamed on us joining the EEC - and I
> > don?t suppose that VAT rates of up to 25% helped much, along with
> > decimalisation and the "Oil Crisis"
8 and 12.5% . Beer at 10d (4p) a pint dream on...
> >
> > The house I currently live in was purchased with a mortgage which I
> > started in 1986, and ISTR that during the 20 years mortgage term the
> > interest rates went from 8% up to 15% and back again - all of it while
> > we were in the EU
> >
> >
> > Low interest rates (globally) are a relatively recent phenomenon and
> > probably have little to do with our relatively insignificant national
> > economy. Unfortunately I suspect that the largest "bill shock" ever is
> > yet to come for those in the early years of a mortgage, when interest
> > rates return to normal - whatever that is
> >
> >
> > Incidentally, while I was working in (West) Germany in 1974 the people I
> > worked with were blaming Britain?s entry in to the EEC for THEIR
> > inflation problems. And in spite of us being EEC members, I still had to
> > apply for a work permit in order to stay in the country

All true, but after ~15years of low inflation, ultra-low interest rates and 35 years of free and easy access to and from the EU for people and goods and mobile phone usage and a widening divergence between UK and EU economy people are going to hold current government policies responsible for the mess, not Dennis Healey in the 1970's when half of them were not even born.

> Some good facts there that are easily overlooked by those
> looking for someone to blame.

Higher prices for Brits is due to Covid, Putin, the EU [observing withdrawal agreement ], trade unions etc. Indeed - they have tried them all.

Some good news - the joke UKCA* mark has been sidelined and the EU's CE mark will still be valid. And the imposition of import controls (due in the autumn) has been postponed for a fifth time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-announces-extension-of-ce-mark-recognition-for-businesses
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/03/uk-brexit-checks-fresh-food-eu-delayed-fifth-time-reports (& FT, BBC etc.)

*Once upon a time British Standards were widely respected - most of the Commonwealth and many other countries adopted BS1363 (mains plugs and sockets) - now redundant, but by the 80's foreign standards were creeping in - e.g. low voltage connectors - DIN (German), [RCA] Phono (USA), Motorola (USA), [Bell] RJ45 (USA) and now ISO. I haven't seen a DNC plug / socket on anything for decades.

Still they still use imperial size taps etc. in France.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/post-brexit-imperial-measurements-drive-revived
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/poll-a-return-to-imperial-measurements-yes-or-no/

I would go into a metric martyr's shop order a quarter of tea and then sue for the other 27lb 12ozs...

> 8 and 12.5% . Beer at 10d (4p) a pint dream on...

What exactly does that mean ?

--
random signature text inserted here

On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 12:33:01 UTC+1, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> > 8 and 12.5% . Beer at 10d (4p) a pint dream on...
> What exactly does that mean ?
> --
> random signature text inserted here
too cryptic for you?

Apart from a short period when Healey doubled the rate on luxury items to 25%, in the 70's the VAT rates were 8% for industrial goods and 12.5% for consumer goods. Buyers of items like transistors had to be sure to specify it was for some machine, not a hi-fi.

In 1979 new Chancellor Geoffrey Howe introduced a single rat of 15%, I still remember the gasp in the House when he announced it.

Pre-decimalisation, before I would pass for 18*, I noticed a local pub had Courage bitter at ten old pence (~4p) per pint. Now more like £4 or more.

* nor even legally buy beer, wine, cider or porter with a meal.

notya...@gmail.com <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In 1979 new Chancellor Geoffrey Howe introduced a single rat of 15%,

Yes, well.....

--
Chris Green
·