Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> NY wrote:
>
>> It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn
>> off their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged
>> in, so you can't use those as a UPS.
>
> This sort of thing should run a router ...
>
> <https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>
>

What is needed is an easy to reach switch. You don’t want the battery/UPS
running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
things to boot, then call.

Tweed wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> This sort of thing should run a router ...
>>
>> <https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>
>
> What is needed is an easy to reach switch.

It has one, most(?) routers have one too.

> You don’t want the battery/UPS
> running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
> have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
> things to boot, then call.

with a small battery yes.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> This sort of thing should run a router ...
>>>
>>> <https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>
>>
>> What is needed is an easy to reach switch.
>
> It has one, most(?) routers have one too.
>
>> You don’t want the battery/UPS
>> running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
>> have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
>> things to boot, then call.
>
> with a small battery yes.
>
>

You need to power the ONT as well as the router, so a switch that powers
both.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 12:59:41 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:mupmcitncdsdecq5g9euj2eaathho79a3e@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:49:47 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 02/08/2023 10:20, Graham J wrote:
>>>> Chris Green wrote:
>>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 08:15:39 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a
>>>>>>> router
>>>>>>> or ONT should not also contain a battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
>>>>>> 'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.
>>>>>>
>>>>> However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
>>>>> and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
>>>>> the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
>>>>> that the UPS battery is dead.
>>>>
>>>> A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
>>>> reports
>>>> when is performance has dropped below a set standard.
>>>
>>> A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.
>>
>> True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
>> will have to use your own.
>>
>> Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.
>
>It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
>their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
>you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
>would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

--
brightside S9

BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 12:59:41 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:mupmcitncdsdecq5g9euj2eaathho79a3e@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:49:47 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/08/2023 10:20, Graham J wrote:
>>>>> Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 08:15:39 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a
>>>>>>>> router
>>>>>>>> or ONT should not also contain a battery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
>>>>>>> 'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
>>>>>> and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
>>>>>> the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
>>>>>> that the UPS battery is dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
>>>>> reports
>>>>> when is performance has dropped below a set standard.
>>>>
>>>> A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.
>>>
>>> True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
>>> will have to use your own.
>>>
>>> Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.
>>
>> It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
>> their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
>> you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
>> would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...
>
>
> Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?
>
>

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3

Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.

It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

On 02/08/2023 08:15, Graham J wrote:
> Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> There are a few things that you can't do with fibre.
>> One is having an unpowered device (i.e. not plugged into a local
>> supply) that, as soon as it goes off-hook, the exchange can tell and do
>> something about it.  Think a hotline, for example.
>
> I suspect that when an ONT loses power the kit at the exchange end
> knows this, and could flag up a fault indication.  This could be
> useful information if communicated to the electricity supply people.
Not for a single dwelling, too much scope for a false flag (ONT being
unplugged for a vaccy etc)

However, simultaneous failure of two or more, would be very useful.....

On 04/08/2023 10:30, Tweed wrote:
> BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 12:59:41 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:mupmcitncdsdecq5g9euj2eaathho79a3e@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:49:47 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/08/2023 10:20, Graham J wrote:
>>>>>> Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 08:15:39 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a
>>>>>>>>> router
>>>>>>>>> or ONT should not also contain a battery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
>>>>>>>> 'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
>>>>>>> and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
>>>>>>> the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
>>>>>>> that the UPS battery is dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
>>>>>> reports
>>>>>> when is performance has dropped below a set standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.
>>>>
>>>> True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
>>>> will have to use your own.
>>>>
>>>> Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.
>>>
>>> It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
>>> their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
>>> you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
>>> would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...
>>
>>
>> Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?
>>
>>
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
>
> Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
> can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
>
> It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.
>
Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it. Not what most people want with a UPS.

On 04/08/2023 12:08, MikeS wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 10:30, Tweed wrote:
>> BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 12:59:41 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:mupmcitncdsdecq5g9euj2eaathho79a3e@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:49:47 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/08/2023 10:20, Graham J wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 08:15:39 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a
>>>>>>>>>> router
>>>>>>>>>> or ONT should not also contain a battery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
>>>>>>>>> 'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
>>>>>>>> and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected
>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>> the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
>>>>>>>> that the UPS battery is dead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
>>>>>>> reports
>>>>>>> when is performance has dropped below a set standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.
>>>>>
>>>>> True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
>>>>> will have to use your own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.
>>>>
>>>> It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have)
>>>> turn off
>>>> their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged
>>>> in, so
>>>> you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
>>>> would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
>>
>> Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
>> can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
>>
>> It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.
>>
> Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
> it.

Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
router and ONT, why would I want a third?

> Not what most people want with a UPS.

No I would much prefer one in White....

Dave

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 12:08, MikeS wrote:
>> On 04/08/2023 10:30, Tweed wrote:
>>> BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 12:59:41 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:mupmcitncdsdecq5g9euj2eaathho79a3e@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:49:47 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/08/2023 10:20, Graham J wrote:
>>>>>>>> Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 08:15:39 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a
>>>>>>>>>>> router
>>>>>>>>>>> or ONT should not also contain a battery.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
>>>>>>>>>> 'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
>>>>>>>>> and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected
>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>> the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
>>>>>>>>> that the UPS battery is dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
>>>>>>>> reports
>>>>>>>> when is performance has dropped below a set standard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
>>>>>> will have to use your own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have)
>>>>> turn off
>>>>> their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged
>>>>> in, so
>>>>> you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
>>>>> would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
>>>
>>> Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
>>> can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
>>>
>>> It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.
>>>
>> Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
>> it.
>
> Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
> router and ONT, why would I want a third?
>
>> Not what most people want with a UPS.
>
> No I would much prefer one in White....
>
> Dave
>

The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
use.

On 04/08/2023 13:59, Tweed wrote:
>
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/08/2023 12:08, MikeS wrote:
>>>
>>> On 04/08/2023 10:30, Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
>>>>
>>>> Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
>>>> can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
>>>>
>>>> It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Yeahbut, it's this one you linked, see below ...

>>> Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
>>> it.

Well, actually, not necessarily, the diagrams make it clear that you
insert it between your existing router's PSU and the router itself, so
the idea seems to be to use your existing router's PSU to power it,
which is a neat idea, but ...

?! Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!

?! The diagrams further suggest you can run up to three devices
simultaneously - not from a single device's PSU you can't ?!

So while your criticism is wrong as stated, I think its implications are
entirely correct.

I like the idea of the device, but I think it needs to have its own PSU
rated to be able to be able to support the maximum number of devices
that can be connected to it.

I'd also be interested to know whether inside it has standard batteries
that can easily be replaced.

>> Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
>> router and ONT, why would I want a third?

See above.

> The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
> continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
> use.

I'm not quite convinced that particular model is quite the solution its
blurb claims it to be, but there may be others that are.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 13:59, Tweed wrote:
>>
>> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 04/08/2023 12:08, MikeS wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 04/08/2023 10:30, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
>>>>>
>>>>> Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
>>>>> can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.
>
> Yeahbut, it's this one you linked, see below ...
>
>>>> Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
>>>> it.
>
> Well, actually, not necessarily, the diagrams make it clear that you
> insert it between your existing router's PSU and the router itself, so
> the idea seems to be to use your existing router's PSU to power it,
> which is a neat idea, but ...
>
> ?! Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
> PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!
>
> ?! The diagrams further suggest you can run up to three devices
> simultaneously - not from a single device's PSU you can't ?!
>
> So while your criticism is wrong as stated, I think its implications are
> entirely correct.
>
> I like the idea of the device, but I think it needs to have its own PSU
> rated to be able to be able to support the maximum number of devices
> that can be connected to it.
>
> I'd also be interested to know whether inside it has standard batteries
> that can easily be replaced.
>
>>> Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
>>> router and ONT, why would I want a third?
>
> See above.
>
>> The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
>> continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
>> use.
>
> I'm not quite convinced that particular model is quite the solution its
> blurb claims it to be, but there may be others that are.
>
The device has its issues, but the market will supply more variants as time
goes by. This, or a similar model, had a review by a chap in Ukraine where
power failures are a real issue.
If you are very worried about extended power failures you can swap out the
mains adapter with a bigger battery, even a camping leisure battery, during
the initial internal battery run time. That’s not so easily done with a
conventional UPS.

>
>  ?!  Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
> PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!
>

no - and a significant number of them (I have seen a few DLink models)
use AC - AC adaptors which are alarmingly (physically) compatible with
DC models.

I have a selection of 5, 9 and 12 volt models from other makers too

--
random signature text inserted here