A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
provide him with an alternative voice service?

There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
bedroom.

--
Graham J

On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>
> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> bedroom.
>
>

I wonder if a directional aerial at chimney stack height pointed at a
telecoms mast and then fed into a 4g router and a VOIP account set up
might be a viable option?

S.

On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.

A million quid ? Blimey. Well, at least (presumably) he has electricity
and running water ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5h54$1mqpt$1@dont-email.me> Graham J wrote:

>A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP. When
>Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to provide him
>with an alternative voice service?
>
>There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
>bedroom.

Makes my bill look reasonable!

Is there some form of satellite option available?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
By the time you can make ends meet they move the ends

On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>

I don't believe so, the USO

https://www.bt.com/broadband/USO

would take the price to the same as above as the POTS replacement uses
the FTTP infrastructure.

> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> bedroom.
>
>

Possibly Starlink but its not cheap..

https://www.starlink.com/

... or OneWeb but perhaps not there yet...

or as others have said 4g/5g router with external antenna..

Dave

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>
> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> bedroom.
>
>

I found this, but I'm still confused:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know

--
Davey.

On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5l7k$1nl72$1@dont-email.me> Davey wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
>Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>>When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>>provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>
>>There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>>possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
>>bedroom.
>>
>>
>
>I found this, but I'm still confused:
>https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know

It seems to say that you are only responsible for the excess over £3,400
of the cost of getting a "decent" broadband service. That will help the
OP's friend a bit :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.

On 11/10/2023 08:21, SH wrote:
> I wonder if a directional aerial at chimney stack height pointed at a
> telecoms mast and then fed into a 4g router and a VOIP account set up
> might be a viable option?

A "passive repeater", it is used sometimes - there was no mobile signal
in a local underground bunker so they put an antenna on the surface
connected by low loss feeder to a home-made antenna in letter tray down
below. People left their mobile phones in the tray and they would
receive text messages or perhaps it would show someone had attempted to
call the mobile. They could then go up above ground and get the message
or make the call.

The bunker was found so useful during the F&M outbreak that they had
mobile phone extended underground.

On 11 Oct 2023 08:28:47 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5l7k$1nl72$1@dont-email.me> Davey wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
> >Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> >>When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> >>provide him with an alternative voice service?
> >>
> >>There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> >>possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an
> >>upstairs bedroom.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I found this, but I'm still confused:
> >https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know
>
> It seems to say that you are only responsible for the excess over
> £3,400 of the cost of getting a "decent" broadband service. That will
> help the OP's friend a bit :-)
>

That what was i got out of it, too, but it seemed a bit useless! £3,400
off a bill of £1,030,690. Bargain! (For Openreach).
We need a better answer.

--
Davey.

On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>
> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> bedroom.
>
>
https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-

2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question

On Wed 11/10/2023 10:03, Davey wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2023 08:28:47 GMT
> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5l7k$1nl72$1@dont-email.me> Davey wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>>>> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>>>> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>>>
>>>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>>>> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an
>>>> upstairs bedroom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I found this, but I'm still confused:
>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know
>>
>> It seems to say that you are only responsible for the excess over
>> £3,400 of the cost of getting a "decent" broadband service. That will
>> help the OP's friend a bit :-)
>>
>
> That what was i got out of it, too, but it seemed a bit useless! £3,400
> off a bill of £1,030,690. Bargain! (For Openreach).
> We need a better answer.
>

What odds BT leave it as a VDSL FTTC circuit?

On 11/10/2023 10:09, grinch wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>
>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
>> bedroom.
>>
>>
> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>
> 2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question
>
And 2 minutes later it's disappeared!

"Sorry, we couldn't connect you We can’t seem to find the page that
you’re looking for. Please try again, or use one of the handy links below."

Malcolm

On 11/10/2023 10:11, Woody wrote:
> On Wed 11/10/2023 10:03, Davey wrote:
>> On 11 Oct 2023 08:28:47 GMT
>> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5l7k$1nl72$1@dont-email.me> Davey wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
>>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>>>>> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>>>>> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>>>>
>>>>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>>>>> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an
>>>>> upstairs bedroom.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I found this, but I'm still confused:
>>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to say that you are only responsible for the excess over
>>> £3,400 of the cost of getting a "decent" broadband service. That will
>>> help the OP's friend a bit :-)
>>>
>>
>> That what was i got out of it, too, but it seemed a bit useless! £3,400
>> off a bill of £1,030,690. Bargain! (For Openreach).
>> We need a better answer.
>>
>
> What odds BT leave it as a VDSL FTTC circuit?
>
Almost certain.
This thread is another example of confusion between removing POTS
(analogue services) and removing every (copper) wire on the system.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:30:47 +0100
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:

> On 11/10/2023 10:11, Woody wrote:
> > On Wed 11/10/2023 10:03, Davey wrote:
> >> On 11 Oct 2023 08:28:47 GMT
> >> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5l7k$1nl72$1@dont-email.me> Davey
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:59:33 +0100
> >>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for
> >>>>> FTTP. When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be
> >>>>> obliged to provide him with an alternative voice service?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just
> >>>>> about possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of
> >>>>> an upstairs bedroom.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I found this, but I'm still confused:
> >>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/broadband-uso-need-to-know
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It seems to say that you are only responsible for the excess over
> >>> £3,400 of the cost of getting a "decent" broadband service. That
> >>> will help the OP's friend a bit :-)
> >>>
> >>
> >> That what was i got out of it, too, but it seemed a bit useless!
> >> £3,400 off a bill of £1,030,690. Bargain! (For Openreach).
> >> We need a better answer.
> >>
> >
> > What odds BT leave it as a VDSL FTTC circuit?
> >
> Almost certain.
> This thread is another example of confusion between removing POTS
> (analogue services) and removing every (copper) wire on the system.

Is there already an FTTC service? It sounds as though it is copper only.

--
Davey.

On 11/10/2023 10:13, Malcolm Loades wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 10:09, grinch wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
>>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>>> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>>> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>>
>>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>>> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
>>> bedroom.
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>>
>> 2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question
>>
> And 2 minutes later it's disappeared!
>
> "Sorry, we couldn't connect you We can’t seem to find the page that
> you’re looking for. Please try again, or use one of the handy links below."
>
> Malcolm

Works just fine for me but for some reason known only to BT it does need
the - at the end ???

https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-

Definitely works but it does need all of it. I agree it does look like a
mistake.

Malcolm Loades wrote:

> grinch wrote:
>
>> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>>
>> 2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question
>>
> And 2 minutes later it's disappeared!

I bet your email client stripped the trailing hyphen ...
fairly poor decision for the original URL to have a trailing hyphen

On 11/10/2023 11:17, Andy Burns wrote:
> Malcolm Loades wrote:
>
>> grinch wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>>>
>>> 2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question
>>>
>> And 2 minutes later it's disappeared!
>
> I bet your email client stripped the trailing hyphen ...
> fairly poor decision for the original URL to have a trailing hyphen
>
>
That's it. Thunderbird has removed the trailing '-' in the link and
treated is as text.

Malcolm

Woody wrote:

[snip]

>
> What odds BT leave it as a VDSL FTTC circuit?
>

The landline is 12km to the exchange. No VDSL, no ADSL. Dial-up at
about 2 kbits/sec did work, in the past.

--
Graham J

On Wed 11/10/2023 11:15, grinch wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 10:13, Malcolm Loades wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 10:09, grinch wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 07:59, Graham J wrote:
>>>> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
>>>> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
>>>> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>>>>
>>>> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
>>>> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
>>>> bedroom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>>>
>>> 2 minutes googling has found the answer to your question
>>>
>> And 2 minutes later it's disappeared!
>>
>> "Sorry, we couldn't connect you We can’t seem to find the page that
>> you’re looking for. Please try again, or use one of the handy links
>> below."
>>
>> Malcolm
>
> Works just fine for me but for some reason known only to BT it does need
> the  - at the end ???
>
> https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it-
>
> Definitely works but it does need all of it. I agree it does look like a
> mistake.

Look carefully and you will see that the hyphen at the end has not been
included in the hyperlink. Click on the hyperlink and then look at the
URL and you will see the hyphen is missing. Add the hyphen in the URL
bar and hit return and bingo - it works.

It does however beg the question why BT have done that?

Woody wrote:

[snip]

> It does however beg the question why BT have done that?

Testing with SeaMonkey.

Create angle brackets <>
put cursor between them
paste link from website

<https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it->

Trailing hyphen is correctly shown before the closing brace.

So let's see what happens when I post the message ...

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:
> Woody wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> It does however beg the question why BT have done that?
>
> Testing with SeaMonkey.
>
> Create angle brackets <>
> put cursor between them
> paste link from website
>
> <https://www.bt.com/help/landline/what-is-digital-voice-and-how-can-i-get-it->
>
>
> Trailing hyphen is correctly shown before the closing brace.
>
> So let's see what happens when I post the message ...
>

That worked as expected.

However, the link does not answer the question: "Does Digital Voce work
if I can't get any broadband service at my location?"

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:
> A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.
> When Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to
> provide him with an alternative voice service?
>
> There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> bedroom.
>
>

OP here.

My friend reports:

"We have had extended talks with both Openreach and BT. As a result we
have been assured that there was no chance of connection to any digital
pathway but that our copper line would remain available even after the
general cut off date. "

I wonder who in Openreach had the authority to make that assurance?

--
Graham J

On 11/10/2023 11:26, Woody wrote:
>
> It does however beg the question why BT have done that?

Automated substitution of punctuation characters, in this case the
question mark at the end?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Wednesday, 11 October 2023 at 09:02:34 UTC+1, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 in message <ug5h54$1mqpt$1...@dont-email.me> Graham J wrote:
>
> >A friend in a rural location has been quoted £1,030,689.70 for FTTP.. When
> >Openreach discontinue his POTS service will they be obliged to provide him
> >with an alternative voice service?
> >
> >There's very little mobile coverage at his house - it's just about
> >possible to make a call when hanging out of the window of an upstairs
> >bedroom.
> Makes my bill look reasonable!
>
> Is there some form of satellite option available?
>
> --
> Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
> By the time you can make ends meet they move the ends

At that price you could probably launch your own!

On Wednesday, 11 October 2023 at 11:26:54 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
> Woody wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> > What odds BT leave it as a VDSL FTTC circuit?
> >
> The landline is 12km to the exchange. No VDSL, no ADSL. Dial-up at
> about 2 kbits/sec did work, in the past.
>
> --
> Graham J

Should be able to get V32 (9k6bps) without too much difficulty or probably V32bis.

Not sure if V90 will work over that distance or whether BT can still terminate that in the exchange.

AIUI BT would have to replace PSTN phones with something, but not necessarily DSL.

As mentioned above a directional aerial a high on your house as you can practically get it with a 4G / 5G modem / router close by should produce usable data rates.