Until recently I had

1. a Draytek 2862 on FTTC in the UK
2. an old 2820 at my holiday home.

The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.

I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
now have:-

Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
<-- Draytek 2820

Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.

I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
features I might miss?

Any other points?

Dave

David Wade wrote:
> Until recently I had
>
> 1. a Draytek 2862 on FTTC in the UK
> 2. an old 2820 at my holiday home.
>
> The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
> EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
> and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.
>
> I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
> Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
> 2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
> now have:-
>
> Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
> <-- Draytek 2820
>
> Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
> would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
> cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.
>
> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
> features I might miss?
>
> Any other points?

I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either. But generally the
Drayteks have superior management and monitoring - although CG NAT at
your holiday home means that these probably won't be remotely
accessible. I think using a Fritz!Box at the holiday home may mean it
is impossible to set up a VPN to the 2862.

Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service. Why
not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:

> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.

sure they do, under
Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding

On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 22:56:18 +0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
wrote:

>I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
>features I might miss?

Mine has.

Home Network - Network - Network Settings tab, then scroll down to IP
Addresses and click the IPV4 (or IPV6) Settings button.

Here you can set the router's own IP address, DHCP range and lease
time, DNS server address and guest network address.

Rod.

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
> > Until recently I had
> >
> > 1. a Draytek 2862 on FTTC in the UK
> > 2. an old 2820 at my holiday home.
> >
> > The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
> > EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
> > and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.
> >
> > I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
> > Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
> > 2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
> > now have:-
> >
> > Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
> > <-- Draytek 2820
> >
> > Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
> > would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
> > cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.
> >
> > I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
> > features I might miss?
> >
> > Any other points?
>
> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either. But generally the

They do but it's not very good, i.e. you can't give names to systems,
it's just a caching DNS server.

--
Chris Green
·

Andy Burns wrote:
> Graham J wrote:
>
>> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.
>
> sure they do, under
> Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding

That is DNS forwarding, not a local DNS server. It does not resolve
node names to local IP addresses, it forwards name requests to the
external DNS server(s).

Others here have complained bitterly about this inadequacy.

--
Graham J

On 04/11/2023 09:12, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 22:56:18 +0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
>> features I might miss?
>
> Mine has.
>
> Home Network - Network - Network Settings tab, then scroll down to IP
> Addresses and click the IPV4 (or IPV6) Settings button.
>
> Here you can set the router's own IP address, DHCP range and lease
> time, DNS server address and guest network address.
>
> Rod.

My Zen provided 7530 is on the latest firmware and the DNS server
settings are under /account information/internet/DNS server.

You can set the DNS servers you require or let it use your isp's DNS
servers.

As my firewall is also my internal DNS server I have left the fritzbox
defaults i.e. the isp's provided servers for ipv4 and ipv6

Graham J wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.
>>
>> sure they do, under
>> Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding
>
> That is DNS forwarding, not a local DNS server.  It does not resolve
> node names to local IP addresses, it forwards name requests to the
> external DNS server(s).

Err, no.

It forwards if you set the type to "DNS forwarding" but it resolves
names to IPs if you set the type to "LAN DNS"

> Others here have complained bitterly about this inadequacy.

Well they should look closer at it then, it certainly resolves local
names, I use it here, it works ...

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/draytek-local-dns.png>

>
> The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
> EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
> and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.
>

CG NAT on FTTP? I thought CGNAT was only used on mobile phone networks,
and that on FTTP products you had a dynamic IP and you could get a
static IP for free or for extra monthly fee.

I have static IP on my 500 Mb/s FTTP product, makes setting up a VPN so
much easier :-)

As for DNS, I run my own Pi Hole along with Wireguard.

SH wrote:

> CG NAT on FTTP? I thought CGNAT was only used on mobile phone networks

You can have CGNAT anywhere the ISP has more customers than IPv4 addresses.

On 04/11/2023 10:20, Andy Burns wrote:
> SH wrote:
>
>> CG NAT on FTTP? I thought CGNAT was only used on mobile phone networks
>
> You can have CGNAT anywhere the ISP has more customers than IPv4 addresses.
>

thought all FTTP products were all now on IP v6?

My static IP address is a IP v4 address which was free of charge :-)

It might be worth the OP switching to vodafone Gigafast just for teh
static IP address one :-)

S.

On 04/11/2023 08:50, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>> Until recently I had
>>
>> 1. a Draytek 2862 on FTTC in the UK
>> 2. an old 2820 at my holiday home.
>>
>> The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
>> EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
>> and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.
>>
>> I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
>> Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
>> 2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
>> now have:-
>>
>> Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
>> <-- Draytek 2820
>>
>> Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
>> would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
>> cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.
>>
>> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
>> features I might miss?
>>
>> Any other points?
>
> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.  But generally the
> Drayteks have superior management and monitoring - although CG NAT at
> your holiday home means that these probably won't be remotely
> accessible.  I think using a Fritz!Box at the holiday home may mean it
> is impossible to set up a VPN to the 2862.
>
> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
> only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service.  Why
> not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>
>
I don't have an ONT. ZEN leave the voip in the 7530 unlocked if you
don't take their VOIP service and I connect that to Voipfone

Dave

On 04/11/2023 10:49, SH wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 10:20, Andy Burns wrote:
>> SH wrote:
>>
>>> CG NAT on FTTP? I thought CGNAT was only used on mobile phone networks
>>
>> You can have CGNAT anywhere the ISP has more customers than IPv4
>> addresses.
>>
>
>
> thought all FTTP products were all now on IP v6?
>
> My static IP address is a IP v4 address which was free of charge :-)
>
> It might be worth the OP switching to vodafone Gigafast just for teh
> static IP address one :-)
>
> S.

I should point out that the end point with the Huawei router is in Spain....
..... and switching to a supplier without CGNAT would double my monthly
bill to 40€ + VAT...

Dave

On 04/11/2023 08:50, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>> Until recently I had
>>
>> 1. a Draytek 2862 on FTTC in the UK
>> 2. an old 2820 at my holiday home.
>>
>> The internet in my holiday home is 300Mb FTTP with CG NAT on a Huawei
>> EG8145V5 router. The 2820 connects to the EG8145V5 via 100mb LAN cable
>> and then back to the 2862 via a VPN.
>>
>> I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
>> Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
>> 2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
>> now have:-
>>
>> Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
>> <-- Draytek 2820
>>
>> Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
>> would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
>> cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.
>>
>> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
>> features I might miss?
>>
>> Any other points?
>
> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.

Its pretty thick, but its there.

> But generally the
> Drayteks have superior management and monitoring - although CG NAT at
> your holiday home means that these probably won't be remotely
> accessible.

Its OK if the VPN is up. I use 192.168.1.1 main home, 192.168.0.1
Holiday home. looks pretty seamless, except AP config for remote APs
does not work.

I think using a Fritz!Box at the holiday home may mean it
> is impossible to set up a VPN to the 2862.
>
> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
> only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service.  Why
> not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>
>

See other reply.

Dave

On 04/11/2023 10:10, grinch wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 09:12, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 22:56:18 +0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
>>> features I might miss?
>>
>> Mine has.
>>
>> Home Network - Network - Network Settings tab, then scroll down to IP
>> Addresses and click the IPV4 (or IPV6) Settings button.
>>
>> Here you can set the router's own IP address, DHCP range and lease
>> time, DNS server address and guest network address.
>>
>> Rod.
>
> My Zen provided 7530 is on the latest firmware and the DNS server
> settings are under /account information/internet/DNS server.
>
> You can set the DNS servers you require or let it use your isp's DNS
> servers.
>
> As my firewall is also my internal DNS server I have left the fritzbox
> defaults i.e. the isp's provided servers for ipv4 and ipv6

The Draytek will also resolve names -> addresses. I mainly use it for
vintage unix boxes...

Dave

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>>
>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
>> only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service.  Why
>> not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>
>>
> I don't have an ONT.

What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?

My FTTP arrives on an ONT which has an Ethernet socket - I connect this
to the WAN port of my router.

> ZEN leave the voip in the 7530 unlocked if you
> don't take their VOIP service and I connect that to Voipfone

Other people have asked hear about that. Can you show more details so
we can see how you conenct it to Voipfone, please?

--
Graham J

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>
>> But generally the Drayteks have superior management and monitoring -
>> although CG NAT at your holiday home means that these probably won't
>> be remotely accessible.
>
> Its OK if the VPN is up.

Exactly my point! If anything goes wrong with the remote VPN settings
you have to go to Spain to correct it.

> I use 192.168.1.1 main home, 192.168.0.1
> Holiday home. looks pretty seamless, except AP config for remote APs
> does not work.

Have you got the appropriate default gateway set in the the remote APs?

--
Graham J

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>> It might be worth the OP switching to vodafone Gigafast just for the
>> static IP address one :-)

As we've seen here in the postings from Peter, we all now know that we
should never use Vodafone!

> I should point out that the end point with the Huawei router is in
> Spain....
> .... and switching to a supplier without CGNAT would double my monthly
> bill to 40€ + VAT...

Does the Spanish supplier offer IPV6? Does the Huawei router connect to
the fibre, or does it use Ethernet to the Spanish equivalent of
Openreach's ONT?

--
Graham J

On 04/11/2023 11:21, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
>>> only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service.  Why
>>> not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>>
>>>
>> I don't have an ONT.
>
> What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?
>
> My FTTP arrives on an ONT which has an Ethernet socket - I connect this
> to the WAN port of my router.
>
>> ZEN leave the voip in the 7530 unlocked if you don't take their VOIP
>> service and I connect that to Voipfone
>
> Other people have asked hear about that.  Can you show more details so
> we can see how you conenct it to Voipfone, please?
>

Its just a normal SIP connection. Apparently you need Fritz!OS 7.25
The only trick is you need to tick "Provider does not support
REGISTER-fetch"

If you use the voipfone voicemail the call waiting light on the 7530
does not work.

>
>
>
>
>

Dave

On 04/11/2023 11:26, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>
>>> But generally the Drayteks have superior management and monitoring -
>>> although CG NAT at your holiday home means that these probably won't
>>> be remotely accessible.
>>
>> Its OK if the VPN is up.
>
> Exactly my point!  If anything goes wrong with the remote VPN settings
> you have to go to Spain to correct it.
>
>> I use 192.168.1.1 main home, 192.168.0.1 Holiday home. looks pretty
>> seamless, except AP config for remote APs does not work.
>
> Have you got the appropriate default gateway set in the the remote APs?
>
>
>
Yes, I meant the central management of remote APs from the routers does
not work. Its because the router in the Holiday Home does not pass a
certain type of packet across to the main router.

Dave

SH wrote:

> thought all FTTP products were all now on IP v6?

Plusnet finally started selling FTTP, but still don't have IPv6 (except
for a few who joined the trial years ago).

> My static IP address is a IP v4 address which was free of charge :-)

Mine is a /29 also free.

David Wade wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 11:21, Graham J wrote:
>> David Wade wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>
>>>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box - Zen
>>>> only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP service.
>>>> Why not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't have an ONT.
>>
>> What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?

Please explaiin ...

--
Graham J

On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 10:10:15 +0000, grinch <grinch@somewhere.net>
wrote:

>> Home Network - Network - Network Settings tab, then scroll down to IP
>> Addresses and click the IPV4 (or IPV6) Settings button.
>>
>> Here you can set the router's own IP address, DHCP range and lease
>> time, DNS server address and guest network address.
>>
>> Rod.
>
>My Zen provided 7530 is on the latest firmware and the DNS server
>settings are under /account information/internet/DNS server.

Just checked mine. Yes it's there too. Looks like another route to the
same page. (Fritz OS 7.57)

Rod.

On 04/11/2023 10:12, Andy Burns wrote:
> Graham J wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Graham J wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.
>>>
>>> sure they do, under
>>> Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding
>>
>> That is DNS forwarding, not a local DNS server.  It does not resolve
>> node names to local IP addresses, it forwards name requests to the
>> external DNS server(s).
>
> Err, no.
>
> It forwards if you set the type to "DNS forwarding" but it resolves
> names to IPs if you set the type to "LAN DNS"
>
>> Others here have complained bitterly about this inadequacy.
>
> Well they should look closer at it then, it certainly resolves local
> names, I use it here, it works ...
>
> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/draytek-local-dns.png>

No, we've had this same argument before. As in

"Re: Are there any VDSL routers out there that do proper DHCP/DNS with
names?
On 02/02/2022 20:25, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> I did point out that it wouldn't help Chris because even though the
vigor is aware of non-blank device IDs, it doesn't use them for local
DNS lookups. If you want local machine lookups to work (in combination
with external DNS), you do have to type them into the "LAN DNS" entries
section.

Well, fair enough, you didn't type them in, but also, just as I said,
there isn't proper local DNS, because it doesn't 'just work' unless you
do type them in. I don't have to type the PC and NAS names into my
BTHH5a running OpenWRT, it 'just works', and so it should on a DV, but,
appallingly for a top name, it doesn't, and AFAIAA never has."

So that is not true local DNS, because you have manually to set up the
name and IP pairing, just as you would in a hosts file, the only
advantage it offers is having to do this once instead of copying a hosts
file around every PC or other device. A properly functioning local DNS
server would do this automatically.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 04/11/2023 11:29, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> It might be worth the OP switching to vodafone Gigafast just for the
>>> static IP address one :-)
>
> As we've seen here in the postings from Peter, we all now know that we
> should never use Vodafone!
>
>> I should point out that the end point with the Huawei router is in
>> Spain....
>> .... and switching to a supplier without CGNAT would double my monthly
>> bill to 40€ + VAT...
>
> Does the Spanish supplier offer IPV6?  Does the Huawei router connect to
> the fibre, or does it use Ethernet to the Spanish equivalent of
> Openreach's ONT?
>
>
The Huawei router connects direct to the fibre, so no ONT and you can't
replace the router. No IPV6 but things might change as was small local
ISP (axartel)

https://www.axartel.es/en/

who have now been bought by a bigger one (avatel) although there is a
bigger holding company

Dave