On 04/11/2023 12:20, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>> On 04/11/2023 11:21, Graham J wrote:
>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box -
>>>>> Zen only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP
>>>>> service. Why not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't have an ONT.
>>>

sorry mis-read that as ATA

>>> What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?
> >
> Please explaiin ...
>
>

Of course the Fritz!box connects to the ONT and provides the VOIP ATA. I
plugged my DECT base station into the FON port on the Fritz!box which is
why I don't connect the Draytek directly to the ONT.

Java Jive wrote:

> we've had this same argument before.

Now you're moving the goalposts!

A DNS server doesn't have to do anything other than lookup entries from
a zone file, integration with a separate DHCP server isn't mandatory
(yes it can be convenient).

So yes, a Draytek won't automatically add entries to local DNS
corresponding to every DHCP address issued.

On 04/11/2023 13:07, Java Jive wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 10:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Graham J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.
>>>>
>>>> sure they do, under
>>>> Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding
>>>
>>> That is DNS forwarding, not a local DNS server.  It does not resolve
>>> node names to local IP addresses, it forwards name requests to the
>>> external DNS server(s).
>>
>> Err, no.
>>
>> It forwards if you set the type to "DNS forwarding" but it resolves
>> names to IPs if you set the type to "LAN DNS"
>>
>>> Others here have complained bitterly about this inadequacy.
>>
>> Well they should look closer at it then, it certainly resolves local
>> names, I use it here, it works ...
>>
>> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/draytek-local-dns.png>
>
> No, we've had this same argument before.  As in
>
> "Re: Are there any VDSL routers out there that do proper DHCP/DNS with
> names?
> On 02/02/2022 20:25, Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> > I did point out that it wouldn't help Chris because even though the
> vigor is aware of non-blank device IDs, it doesn't use them for local
> DNS lookups.  If you want local machine lookups to work (in combination
> with external DNS), you do have to type them into the "LAN DNS" entries
> section.
>
> Well, fair enough, you didn't type them in, but also, just as I said,
> there isn't proper local DNS, because it doesn't 'just work' unless you
> do type them in.  I don't have to type the PC and NAS names into my
> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, it 'just works', and so it should on a DV, but,
> appallingly for a top name, it doesn't, and AFAIAA never has."
>
> So that is not true local DNS, because you have manually to set up the
> name and IP pairing, just as you would in a hosts file, the only
> advantage it offers is having to do this once instead of copying a hosts
> file around every PC or other device.  A properly functioning local DNS
> server would do this automatically.
>

Sounds like a proper DNS to me. Just because its not updated via dynamic
DNS updates doesn't mean its not "proper". Most of the ISPs that offer
DNS hosting for domains don't offer dynamic DNS or host updates via DHCP.

Dave

David Wade wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 12:20, Graham J wrote:
>> David Wade wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2023 11:21, Graham J wrote:
>>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box -
>>>>>> Zen only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP
>>>>>> service. Why not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have an ONT.
>>>>
>
> sorry mis-read that as ATA
>
>>>> What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?
>> >
>> Please explaiin ...
>>
>>
>
> Of course the Fritz!box connects to the ONT and provides the VOIP ATA. I
> plugged my DECT base station into the FON port on the Fritz!box which is
> why I don't connect the Draytek directly to the ONT.

OK understood.

But - if you discard the Fritz!box then your Draytek would connect
directly to the ONT, and you could have remote access into the Draytek
for management and confirming that the internet conenction is live via a
monitoring service such as <https://f8lure.mouselike.org/auth.asp>

It might also make setting up the endpoint for the LAN-to-LAN VPN easier.

Of course you would then require an ATA or a VoIP phone to connect to
your LAN.

--
Graham J

Java Jive wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 10:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Graham J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think any Draytek has local DNS either.
>>>>
>>>> sure they do, under
>>>> Applications > LAN DNS / DNS Forwarding
>>>
>>> That is DNS forwarding, not a local DNS server.  It does not resolve
>>> node names to local IP addresses, it forwards name requests to the
>>> external DNS server(s).
>>
>> Err, no.
>>
>> It forwards if you set the type to "DNS forwarding" but it resolves
>> names to IPs if you set the type to "LAN DNS"
>>
>>> Others here have complained bitterly about this inadequacy.
>>
>> Well they should look closer at it then, it certainly resolves local
>> names, I use it here, it works ...
>>
>> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/draytek-local-dns.png>
>
> No, we've had this same argument before.  As in
>
> "Re: Are there any VDSL routers out there that do proper DHCP/DNS with
> names?
> On 02/02/2022 20:25, Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> > I did point out that it wouldn't help Chris because even though the
> vigor is aware of non-blank device IDs, it doesn't use them for local
> DNS lookups.  If you want local machine lookups to work (in combination
> with external DNS), you do have to type them into the "LAN DNS" entries
> section.
>
> Well, fair enough, you didn't type them in, but also, just as I said,
> there isn't proper local DNS, because it doesn't 'just work' unless you
> do type them in.  I don't have to type the PC and NAS names into my
> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, it 'just works', and so it should on a DV, but,
> appallingly for a top name, it doesn't, and AFAIAA never has."
>
> So that is not true local DNS, because you have manually to set up the
> name and IP pairing, just as you would in a hosts file, the only
> advantage it offers is having to do this once instead of copying a hosts
> file around every PC or other device.  A properly functioning local DNS
> server would do this automatically.
>

Indeed.

If you run a server on your LAN, it would integrate DHCP and DNS. You
then would disable the DHCP and DNS forwarding in your router. I'm told
this can be done with a Raspberry Pi.

--
Graham J

On 04/11/2023 13:50, Graham J wrote:
> David Wade wrote:
>> On 04/11/2023 12:20, Graham J wrote:
>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>> On 04/11/2023 11:21, Graham J wrote:
>>>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since you have Voipfone I don't see why you need the Fritz!Box -
>>>>>>> Zen only provide them so you can use their proprietary VoIP
>>>>>>> service. Why not connect the 2862 drect to the ONT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have an ONT.
>>>>>
>>
>> sorry mis-read that as ATA
>>
>>>>> What does the Fritz!Box WAN port connect to?
>>> >
>>> Please explaiin ...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Of course the Fritz!box connects to the ONT and provides the VOIP ATA.
>> I plugged my DECT base station into the FON port on the Fritz!box
>> which is why I don't connect the Draytek directly to the ONT.
>
> OK understood.
>
> But - if you discard the Fritz!box then your Draytek would connect
> directly to the ONT, and you could have remote access into the Draytek
> for management and confirming that the internet conenction is live via a
> monitoring service such as <https://f8lure.mouselike.org/auth.asp>
>
> It might also make setting up the endpoint for the LAN-to-LAN VPN easier.
>
> Of course you would then require an ATA or a VoIP phone to connect to
> your LAN.
>
>
>
I get remote access to the Draytek in the UK anyway. The Fritz!Box
really only handles the VOIP at present. It routes all other traffic to
the Draytek. I have a fixed IP from Zen.....

... The other end is the problem. The Draytek 2820 there is old and has
low VPN throughput. It only has one 1Gb link. The link to the ISP router
is only 100mb. The WiFi is Wifi "n" only.

The question is do I replace it with a second Fritz!Box or a newer Draytek.

The Fritz!box would be lower priced, give me a phone port, faster WiFi
(the AX version with WiFi 6 would be more expensive but still less than
a Draytek) but fewer VPN options.

On the other hand a Draytek has more VPN option and could manage the
Draytek Access Points I have.....

Dave

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>
> The question is do I replace it with a second Fritz!Box or a newer Draytek.
>
> The Fritz!box would be lower priced, give me a phone port, faster WiFi
> (the AX version with WiFi 6 would be more expensive but still less than
> a Draytek) but fewer VPN options.
>
> On the other hand a Draytek has more VPN option and could manage the
> Draytek Access Points I have.....

I think there will be more modern Drayteks available on the secondhand
market as people discard them in favour of ISP-provided routers such as
the Fritz!Box where the users need a simple "Digital Voice" solution.

--
Graham J

David Wade wrote:

[snip]

>
> The question is do I replace it with a second Fritz!Box or a newer Draytek.
>
> The Fritz!box would be lower priced, give me a phone port, faster WiFi
> (the AX version with WiFi 6 would be more expensive but still less than
> a Draytek) but fewer VPN options.
>
> On the other hand a Draytek has more VPN option and could manage the
> Draytek Access Points I have.....

I think there will be more modern Drayteks available on the secondhand
market as people discard them in favour of ISP-provided routers such as
the Fritz!Box where the users need a simple "Digital Voice" solution.

--
Graham J

On 03/11/2023 22:56, David Wade wrote:

> I recently upgraded my UK setup to Zen FTTP 500/75 and telephony from
> Voipfone. I installed the ZEN Fritz!Box 7530AX router and set up the
> 2862 as a so called "DMZ" device. I configured VOIP on the 7530, so I
> now have:-
>
> Draytek 2862 <-- DMZ/NAT --> Fitz!Box 7530AX <-- Internet --> EG8145V5
> <-- Draytek 2820
>
> Now the 2820 seem to be a bit of a bottleneck, so I was wondering if I
> would be better replacing it with a newer Draytek, or as they seem
> cheaper and more widely available a Fritz!Box 7530.
>
> I can see the Fritz!Box does not have a local DNS. Are there any other
> features I might miss?

Your set-up sounds very close to my own.

Site to Site Draytek VPN. Upgraded remote site to Zen FTTP and old
draytek 2920 is sadly lacking in throughput to maximise FTTP connection
but it's still fast enough to fulfill the purpose, and the remote site
is the Netfix account holders location which following this years
Netflix clamp down on account sharing meant the same account couldn't be
accessed from both locations but the VPN is fast enough to route all
local t.v. traffic through to the remote end and out on the same Zen IP
address so back to 2 sites being seen by Netflix as a single site.
The Zen supplied Fritz Box 7530 is used on the remote site but replacing
a network switch and adding a 2nd telephone "socket" so not providing
WAN interface.

I have the Fritz Box telephone side registered with both voipfone and
voipcheap accounts for the simple reason that the property alarm
auto-dialer needed to be presented with a POTS interface so I simply
wired it into the FritzBox telephone port. Alarm is triggered Fritzbox
dials out over LAN through Draytek to WAN (Always connect by internet
box ticked). Works perfectly unless power is out of course.

2 things to note. I can't log into the Fritzbox from remote via VPN, I
have to VNC into a computer on the same network and log into the box
from there whereas Draytek to Draytek is Wayyyy more versatile and with
static IP addresses on both ends even if the VPN is down I can still log
into Draytek admin via the "allow admin from WAN" (via specific IP
address for security)

The main reason I've always stuck to a Draytek at each end is simplicity
of duplicating a highly configurable set-up. i.e. Same settings both
ends with the exception of localand remote IP address chages.

I see the FritzBox has done an update and now supports WireGuard but
these features always seem to be to be focused on simplicity of logging
in from a remote client for internet break-out rather than a full-scale
site<->site communications of each end being both host and client.

My scenario is both sites are only 10 miles and 20 minutes apart so
sorting things out isn't a big issue.

Cheers
Pete