On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 14:14:25 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:50:51 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> Yes, but in a democracy, if the majority of the public think otherwise,
>>> then they prevail.
>>
>> Huh? Watcha talkin bout Willis?
>
>Didn’t you hear about the new law that makes it a legal requirement for
>criminals to use public transport to make their escape?

Would keep the BTP busy!

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> In uk.railway Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> It seems counterintuitive but small Islands are maybe the worst places to
>> sustain rail transport.
>
> Yes and no.
>
>> Rail is relatively expensive to provide and will rarely be close enough to
>> much of the population to obviate the need for road transport. Now that
>> main freight in the form of coal has long been superseded by electricity
>> for domestic energy needs the other advantages of rail which is high speed
>> over longer distances or transporting 1000’s of people at once to work in a
>> large town or city are not required on a small Island. The Railways on the
>> Channel of Jersey and Guernsey went in the 1930’s
>> as the bus and lorry were developed.
>
> To be successful, island transport would need several factors:
>
> 1. a network where you aren't far from a stop, like a tram system, so you
> can walk or cycle there

A Mile or Kilometer stays the same even if it is on an Island, the I.O.W
may not be the largest Island in the World but it is still going to be
quite a trek for most of the population and neither is it particularly flat
so only those reasonably healthy would walk or cycle too far ,though there
will be like now those
who would do such journeys as part of a lifestyle or hobby choice*
Before the car age many people worked at or not too far from home , that
hasn’t been the case for some decades and though some can now do it again
with moving office based work to a home office not all can do that.

> 2. a restriction of car traffic: that might be congested roads and lack of
> parking, or a lack of ferry services to get cars there in the first place

Like Sark, where the owners can impose such restrictions.

> 3. an unsuitability for a bus service: here it could be narrow country roads
> versus a segregated railway network

Guernsey and Jersey mandate narrower buses than those in the UK for that
reason,

> 4. connectivity that can be achieved by rail that can't by road - eg a rail
> tunnel to the mainland where the road equivalent was a slow ferry
> 5. a population density high enough to support no.1 and to cause no.2
>
> Effectively an island with enough population to make a public transport
> network sustainable.
>
> The IoW has had cars for a long time and as such it seems unlikely to change
> back any time soon, but it would be possible to imagine an alternative
> universe where cars never became established on the Island and the railways
> remained the primary means of transport.
>
Not actually a Geographic Island but a political one Gibraltar would appear
to be the sort of place,
it actually has quite good public transport with around 11 bus routes which
have a frequent service with buses 7m long max 2m wide.

Despite that and short walks or cycle rides to bus stops there are
around 17000 private cars and 5000 Motorbikes on the Peninsula. The
population is around 32,000 so it the the majority of adults who can own a
vehicle have one, in a place where the longest drive inside the “Island” is
about 5km and the same back again.

People just like their own transport too much.

* There was a cyclist on this part of the South Coast of England who used
to cycle to the Yarmouth Ferry to the West end of the Island and cycle to
the Fishbourne terminal at the East end and take the ferry back over to
Portsmouth . Home to work was 42 Miles 67km . Quite a lot shorter and
nicer roads than going between the same places on the mainland.
He used an electrical assisted bike and his reason for doing it was the
timing of of the train service,he
did it for over a year but eventually went back to the train.

GH

According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>Not for nothing was MARTA nicknamed Moving Africans Rapidly Through
>>Atlanta.
>
>Even the persons of colour are overwhelmingly Nth-generation Americans
>(that's what the Civil War was about).

Black Americans are much more likely to be Nth generation than whites.
There's been very little immigration of Blacks since the slave trade was
outlawed in 1808 but vast numbers of whites.

>But seeing as you've brought it up, I did an online search, and
>apparently that term's associated with being a "Racist suburbanite".

There's a lot of that in the U.S. Oh no, we're not racists, we want
to preserve and enhance the lovely character of our community.

>On the bright side, they've now extended MARTA to the airport, having
>previously passive-aggressively terminated it slightly short.

News must travel slowly across the pond, since that station opened in 1988.

When I've gone to meetings in Atlanta I always take the subway (as we
call it) to and from my hotel which is fast, cheap, and convenient.
People look at me like I'm out of my mind.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>> Not for nothing was MARTA nicknamed Moving Africans Rapidly Through
>>> Atlanta.
>>
>> Even the persons of colour are overwhelmingly Nth-generation Americans
>> (that's what the Civil War was about).
>
> Black Americans are much more likely to be Nth generation than whites.
> There's been very little immigration of Blacks since the slave trade was
> outlawed in 1808 but vast numbers of whites.

They're still called African-Americans, despite most never having met an
African.

>
>> But seeing as you've brought it up, I did an online search, and
>> apparently that term's associated with being a "Racist suburbanite".
>
> There's a lot of that in the U.S. Oh no, we're not racists, we want
> to preserve and enhance the lovely character of our community.

They tend to shoot jogging blacks who stray into their white suburbs.

>
>> On the bright side, they've now extended MARTA to the airport, having
>> previously passive-aggressively terminated it slightly short.
>
> News must travel slowly across the pond, since that station opened in 1988.
>
> When I've gone to meetings in Atlanta I always take the subway (as we
> call it) to and from my hotel which is fast, cheap, and convenient.
> People look at me like I'm out of my mind.
>

Yes, I'm sure I took MARTA to the airport about 25 years ago.

In message <uvp2eu$1oed$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 17:55:42 on Wed, 17 Apr
2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>Not for nothing was MARTA nicknamed Moving Africans Rapidly Through
>>>Atlanta.
>>
>>Even the persons of colour are overwhelmingly Nth-generation Americans
>>(that's what the Civil War was about).
>
>Black Americans are much more likely to be Nth generation than whites.
>There's been very little immigration of Blacks since the slave trade was
>outlawed in 1808 but vast numbers of whites.
>
>>But seeing as you've brought it up, I did an online search, and
>>apparently that term's associated with being a "Racist suburbanite".
>
>There's a lot of that in the U.S. Oh no, we're not racists, we want
>to preserve and enhance the lovely character of our community.
>
>>On the bright side, they've now extended MARTA to the airport, having
>>previously passive-aggressively terminated it slightly short.
>
>News must travel slowly across the pond, since that station opened in 1988.

The majority of my business trips to Atlanta were before that.

>When I've gone to meetings in Atlanta I always take the subway (as we
>call it) to and from my hotel which is fast, cheap, and convenient.
>People look at me like I'm out of my mind.

Same here. And I remember meeting some of the "Booth Babies" (that's a
term of art, m'lud) who confided they'd only risk walking from the car
park to the conference centre if they had a hand-gun in their bag.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uvolfn$1l4pi$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:14:15 on Wed, 17 Apr
> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Also, I suspect there would be some NIMBY types would would not like an
>>>>>>> invasion by hordes of tourist cars or pollution-causing lorries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember asking a B&B owner in Skye what difference the bridge had
>>>>>> made. "More petty crime" she said.
>>>>>
>>>>> A common complaint. When I lived in the outer suburbs of Atlanta the
>>>>> main (and successful) pressure group against the extension of their
>>>>> metro system, was based on the fear of Chavs from the inner city using
>>>>> it as a means to facilitate a smash-and-grab on their homes.
>>>>
>>>> The issue wasn’t primarily to do with undesirables arriving, but with the
>>>> ability to get off the island more quickly.
>>>
>>> What's your business model there? Tourists staying on the Island doing
>>> day-trips to the mainland perhaps.
>>
>> Business model? I’m not sure I’m following the thread of this
>> conversation.
>
> In words of one syllable: what is the risk to Island residents of
> tourists being able to leave [more quickly]?

The risk, actually I think from the timing more of an observation, was that
thieves perceived a lower risk of being apprehended if they could just
drive off the island rather than waiting in the ferry queue.

> And why is that risk greater than the benefit of tourists being able to
> arrive.

The conversation wasn’t about balance of risk or benefit, just about what
difference the bridge had made.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>
>No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>
That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
Orl Korrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>
> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
> Orl Korrect.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words
>

In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
which they don't have.

In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>
>That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>Orl Korrect.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words

Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
there's no hint of racism.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>
>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>> Orl Korrect.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words
>
> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
> there's no hint of racism.

Chav isn't a term known in the US. I think it's a purely British term,
and, if anything, refers to white working class Brits, who may or may not
live in council houses. The Americans have plenty of both subtle and
blatantly racist terms of their own.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/chav

In message <o%4UN.42157$MP2.7135@fx05.ams1>, at 08:39:48 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
>> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>
>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>
>>>
>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engl
>>>ish_words
>>
>> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
>> there's no hint of racism.
>
>Chav isn't a term known in the US.

That's OK, because I'm writing for a UK audience.

>I think it's a purely British term,
>and, if anything, refers to white working class Brits, who may or may not
>live in council houses. The Americans have plenty of both subtle and
>blatantly racist terms of their own.
>
>https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/chav
>

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <o%4UN.42157$MP2.7135@fx05.ams1>, at 08:39:48 on Thu, 18 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
>>> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>>
>>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engl
>>>> ish_words
>>>
>>> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
>>> there's no hint of racism.
>>
>> Chav isn't a term known in the US.
>
> That's OK, because I'm writing for a UK audience.

We were discussing the local racist definition of MARTA. Chavs don't come
into it, as there aren't any in Atlanta.

In message <NV4UN.69064$lu2.14564@fx15.ams1>, at 08:33:49 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>
>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>> Orl Korrect.
>>
>>
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engli
>>sh_words
>
>In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
>which they don't have.

On the contrary, countrywide you have HUD doing the policy and
co-ordination, and in most cities "public housing".

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/pha/contacts

Public Housing and Indian Housing, not just Indian that's public.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <NV4UN.69064$lu2.14564@fx15.ams1>, at 08:33:49 on Thu, 18 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>
>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engli
>>> sh_words
>>
>> In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
>> which they don't have.
>
> On the contrary, countrywide you have HUD doing the policy and
> co-ordination, and in most cities "public housing".
>
> https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/pha/contacts
>
> Public Housing and Indian Housing, not just Indian that's public.

ohh look , Rolands getting bored and trying to start a sub thread so he
can have an argument,
daytime television must be a bit naff this morning.

Almost all developed countries have some form of public housing,
Council Housing has been the term used mainly in England and Wales though
it probably isn’t as accurate as it once was as some have offloaded to
housing associations.
Scotland ISTR used the word scheme for their Estates though I don’t know if
it is universal.

GH

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>
>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>> Orl Korrect.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words
>
> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
> there's no hint of racism.

Though if CHAV has developed from what Romanies may have called some of
their children and you used it to insult them you could be accused of using
racist language.as they are officially a minority ethnic group.

GH

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>
>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>> Orl Korrect.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words
>>
>
> In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
> which they don't have.

Yes, I once confused an American cousin by saying I was working on a
project. She thought I was working in social housing.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <NV4UN.69064$lu2.14564@fx15.ams1>, at 08:33:49 on Thu, 18 Apr
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>>
>>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engli
>>>> sh_words
>>>
>>> In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
>>> which they don't have.
>>
>> On the contrary, countrywide you have HUD doing the policy and
>> co-ordination, and in most cities "public housing".
>>
>> https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/pha/contacts
>>
>> Public Housing and Indian Housing, not just Indian that's public.
>
> ohh look , Rolands getting bored and trying to start a sub thread so he
> can have an argument,
> daytime television must be a bit naff this morning.
>
>
> Almost all developed countries have some form of public housing,
> Council Housing has been the term used mainly in England and Wales though
> it probably isn’t as accurate as it once was as some have offloaded to
> housing associations.
> Scotland ISTR used the word scheme for their Estates though I don’t know if
> it is universal.

Yeah, housing schemes are the usual description, along with the perjorative
“schemie” for an inhabitant thereof.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 18 Apr 2024 11:02:10 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
>> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>
>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_English_words
>>
>> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
>> there's no hint of racism.
>
>Though if CHAV has developed from what Romanies may have called some of
>their children and you used it to insult them you could be accused of using
>racist language.as they are officially a minority ethnic group.

Google ngrams has entries for 'chav' going back to the mid 17th century,
although of course some of the older ones could be transcription errors.
What's possibly more interesting is that it seemed to be in reasonably
common usage up to the early 19th century, before gradually fading away,
only to resurge massively shortly after the millennium.

The OED (cited by Wikipedia) says that the modern usage appears to stem from
a Usenet post in 1998, which would fit with the ngram graphs.

Mark

In message <l8ccthF4c80U1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:02:09 on Thu, 18
Apr 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>>> In any case, Americans wouldn't define a term based on 'council housing',
>>> which they don't have.
>>
>> On the contrary, countrywide you have HUD doing the policy and
>> co-ordination, and in most cities "public housing".
>>
>> https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/pha/contacts
>>
>> Public Housing and Indian Housing, not just Indian that's public.
>
>ohh look , Rolands getting bored and trying to start a sub thread so he
can have an argument, daytime television must be a bit naff this
>morning.

No, I'm simply debunking the preposterous idea that the USA doesn't have
public housing (provided by the local City Council).
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 01:22:06 +0100
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 00:05:22 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 10:23:41 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/04/2024 10:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> I finally got around to riding the 484s on the isle of wight. Vivarail
>>did a
>>>>>> very nice job. Interesting contrast between the sound of the new traction
>>>>>> inverters and the LU DC motors which they retained.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes me wonder , if a small company managed to refurbish these trains so
>>well
>>>>>> why didn't LU do it instead of buying entirely new S Stock trains? I
>>assume
>>>>>> there must have been good reasons not to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trundling up and down the Island Line or the Greenford loop is a lot
>>>>> less taxing than operating the Metropolitan lines out to Amersham and
>>>>> Chesham day in and day out.
>>>>>
>>>> That was A stock. C stock didn't usually trundle past Neasden.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The 230 is D stock,
>>>
>>Argh! yes.
>>
>>>that never worked on the Met.
>>>
>>or even the Northern side of the Circle IIRC (gauge issues?).
>
>At 9 foot 8 wide the A stock AFAIK was the UKs widest train so no surprise it
>had problems fitting on some lines even on the tube. It did make for an
>extrenely roomy interior with the 3 across seating being a genuine 3 across
>not a 2.5 across like in most BR stock.
>
A stock was wider but ISTR D stock had potential trouble with the
amount of protrusion of the corners on curves which would have come
into effect at some platforms or crossovers. The LURS published a list
of prohibitions/restrictions a few years ago; AFAIR A stock was banned
from the south side of the Circle Line due to the central bodyside
being foul to gauge on tight curves.

In message <l8ccthF4c80U1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:02:09 on Thu, 18
Apr 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>Council Housing has been the term used mainly in England and Wales though
>it probably isn’t as accurate as it once was as some have offloaded to
>housing associations.

However those housing associations usually only do the infrastructure,
while the council's housing department continues to do the public-facing
management (including selecting tenants, dealing with complaints etc).
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 09:56:39 -0000 (UTC), Clank
<clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 10:18:22 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> In message <uvo2j0$1glcn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:51:44 on Wed, 17 Apr
>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> Also, I suspect there would be some NIMBY types would would not like
>>>> an invasion by hordes of tourist cars or pollution-causing lorries.
>>>
>> >I remember asking a B&B owner in Skye what difference the bridge had
>> > made. "More petty crime" she said.
>>
>> A common complaint. When I lived in the outer suburbs of Atlanta the
>> main (and successful) pressure group against the extension of their
>> metro system, was based on the fear of Chavs from the inner city using
>> it as a means to facilitate a smash-and-grab on their homes.
>
>Which was also the argument used by campaigners against Croydon Tramlink
>back in the day - the only people who would benefit would be the criminals
>who would come down from New Addington on the rob. Personally I feel like
>an all-stops tram would be a relatively suboptimal getaway vehicle for a
>heist, but I suppose that's why I'm not a professional criminal.
>
>Mind, the same people also claimed that the trams would simultaneously be
>so noisy that it would be impossible to sleep within half a mile of a tram
>line, and so quiet that they would scatter bloodied pedestrians across the
>streets like a grim game of skittles....
>
They said the latter about trolleybuses ("silent death") and more
recently about electric buses but the noise level is now little
different from cars which have themselves become quieter.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <UXOTN.457597$7uxe.299747@fx09.ams1>, at 12:07:16 on Wed, 17
>Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uvo2j0$1glcn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:51:44 on Wed, 17 Apr
>>> 2024, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Also, I suspect there would be some NIMBY types would would not like an
>>>>> invasion by hordes of tourist cars or pollution-causing lorries.
>>>>
>>>> I remember asking a B&B owner in Skye what difference the bridge had
>>>> made. "More petty crime" she said.
>>>
>>> A common complaint. When I lived in the outer suburbs of Atlanta the
>>> main (and successful) pressure group against the extension of their
>>> metro system, was based on the fear of Chavs from the inner city using
>>> it as a means to facilitate a smash-and-grab on their homes.
>>
>>I assume by Chavs you mean blacks?
>
>No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>
Chav comes from the Romany word "chavo/chavi" which means a boy or
youth.
See also the backslang "yob" with comparable connotations.
<snip>

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:11:22 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <o%4UN.42157$MP2.7135@fx05.ams1>, at 08:39:48 on Thu, 18 Apr
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <78l12jt5c3sshisr2vrpv3nru2d1dpnu1o@4ax.com>, at 09:10:41 on
>>>> Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it stands for "Council House and Violent", and central Atlanta was
>>>>>> riddled with council housing (which they call "The [housing] Projects").
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's cod etymology. No more accurate than Port Out Starboard Home or
>>>>> Orl Korrect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies_of_Engl
>>>>> ish_words
>>>>
>>>> Whatever the derivation, it's in common parlance. But more to the point
>>>> there's no hint of racism.
>>>
>>> Chav isn't a term known in the US.
>>
>> That's OK, because I'm writing for a UK audience.
>
>We were discussing the local racist definition of MARTA. Chavs don't come
>into it, as there aren't any in Atlanta.
>
There are plenty just as there will be plenty of neds. Different words
for the same societal dross.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>> so quiet that they would scatter bloodied pedestrians across the
>> streets like a grim game of skittles....
>>
> They said the latter about trolleybuses ("silent death")

The Singer Dionne Warwick had a close encounter with a Glasgow one that
appeared quietly out of some fog, she wasn’t able to Walk on By and had to
attend Hospital missing her planned performance that evening.

It would be basis for a good pub quiz question, I bet a lot of younger
than 50 people in the UK don’t even know what a Trolleybus is.

GH