As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
Sports Extra.

On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
> Sports Extra.

All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
all of them to be switched off in April.

As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
intertwined with that mess.

Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>> Sports Extra.
>
> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
> all of them to be switched off in April.
>
> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
> intertwined with that mess.
>

If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
being issued?

On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>> Sports Extra.
>>
>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>
>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>> intertwined with that mess.
>>
>
> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
> being issued?

It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
less continuously transmitted ?

Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
life of the valves etc even faster !

Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>
>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>
>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>
>>
>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>> being issued?
>
>
> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
> less continuously transmitted ?
>
> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
> life of the valves etc even faster !
>

Not sure where my autocorrect got funded from. I meant reduced in power.

On 19/11/2023 13:51, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>>
>>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>>
>>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>>> being issued?
>>
>>
>> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>> less continuously transmitted ?
>>
>> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>> life of the valves etc even faster !
>>
>
> Not sure where my autocorrect got funded from. I meant reduced in power.
>

Reducing the power might work. I've rigged up a means in recent weeks to
record the exact switch off and on times for my mothers' antique
Teleswitch. They are On 23:00, Off 07:00, On 13:00, Off 15:30.

Only vary by a few seconds either side of 'bang on', so clearly the
device is being kept on track as far as clock accuracy is concerned, but
there doesn't seem to be any adjustment of the on/off times (that would
be helpful to National Grid Ltd) so I actually wonder if the system is
still being used dynamically.

No 1hr change of time on Oct 29th, those times seems to be GMT all year
round.

On 19/11/2023 15:20, Mark Carver wrote:
>
> Reducing the power might work. I've rigged up a means in recent weeks to
> record the exact switch off and on times for my mothers' antique
> Teleswitch.   They are On 23:00, Off 07:00, On 13:00, Off 15:30.
>
> Only vary by a few seconds either side of 'bang on', so clearly the
> device is being kept on track as far as clock accuracy is concerned, but
> there doesn't seem to be any adjustment of the on/off times (that would
> be helpful to National Grid Ltd) so I actually wonder if the system is
> still being used dynamically.
>
> No 1hr change of time on Oct 29th, those times seems to be GMT all year
> round.

So no better than the clockwork switch on my supply (except no lunchtime
top-up)!

I occasionally check with a test probe whether the storage heater is on
or off (the little neons in the switches died years ago) and never far out.

Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 19/11/2023 13:51, Tweed wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>>>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>>>> being issued?
>>>
>>>
>>> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>>> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>>> less continuously transmitted ?
>>>
>>> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>>> life of the valves etc even faster !
>>>
>>
>> Not sure where my autocorrect got funded from. I meant reduced in power.
>>
>
> Reducing the power might work. I've rigged up a means in recent weeks to
> record the exact switch off and on times for my mothers' antique
> Teleswitch. They are On 23:00, Off 07:00, On 13:00, Off 15:30.
>
> Only vary by a few seconds either side of 'bang on', so clearly the
> device is being kept on track as far as clock accuracy is concerned, but
> there doesn't seem to be any adjustment of the on/off times (that would
> be helpful to National Grid Ltd) so I actually wonder if the system is
> still being used dynamically.
>
> No 1hr change of time on Oct 29th, those times seems to be GMT all year
> round.
>

I think they’ve given up on the dynamic load balancing for E7. My smart
meter is configured for E7 and switches to the low rate at 0030 GMT all
year round.

On 19/11/2023 17:21, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 13:51, Tweed wrote:
>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>>>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>>>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>>>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>>>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>>>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>>>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>>>>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>>>>> being issued?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>>>> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>>>> less continuously transmitted ?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>>>> life of the valves etc even faster !
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure where my autocorrect got funded from. I meant reduced in power.
>>>
>>
>> Reducing the power might work. I've rigged up a means in recent weeks to
>> record the exact switch off and on times for my mothers' antique
>> Teleswitch. They are On 23:00, Off 07:00, On 13:00, Off 15:30.
>>
>> Only vary by a few seconds either side of 'bang on', so clearly the
>> device is being kept on track as far as clock accuracy is concerned, but
>> there doesn't seem to be any adjustment of the on/off times (that would
>> be helpful to National Grid Ltd) so I actually wonder if the system is
>> still being used dynamically.
>>
>> No 1hr change of time on Oct 29th, those times seems to be GMT all year
>> round.
>>
>
> I think they’ve given up on the dynamic load balancing for E7. My smart
> meter is configured for E7 and switches to the low rate at 0030 GMT all
> year round.

So in conclusion, if/when 198 is switched off, nothing catastrophic is
going to happen. I'd expect the internal clock to use 50 Hz as a timing
reference, so the big question is can it keep counting in a power cut !

OVO are certainly in no rush to replace the kit with (in my mother's
case) a dual phase/dual tariff super-dooper smart meter/switch solution,
(because they tell me, they still don't have one yet !)

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 13:41:47 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>
>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>
>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>
>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>> being issued?
>
>It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>less continuously transmitted ?
>
>Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>life of the valves etc even faster !

What do the Danes do at Kalundborg? I understood they broadcast
shipping forcasts and news summaries only with long periods of
silence.

On 20/11/2023 10:53, Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 13:41:47 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>>
>>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>>
>>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>>
>>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>>> being issued?
>>
>> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>> less continuously transmitted ?
>>
>> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>> life of the valves etc even faster !
>
> What do the Danes do at Kalundborg? I understood they broadcast
> shipping forcasts and news summaries only with long periods of
> silence.

Transmitting silence is a little bit cheaper I suppose

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:11:42 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 20/11/2023 10:53, Scott wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 13:41:47 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/11/2023 13:10, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/11/2023 09:47, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> As far as I can see, the Radio Ulster medium wave service on 1341 kHz
>>>>>> has closed but Radio 4 continues on 720 kHz. This seems illogical as
>>>>>> I assumed Radio Ulster would be the pre-eminent service. Surely R4
>>>>>> DAB coverage (on the main BBC multiplex) will be at least as good as
>>>>>> Radio Ulster so what is the logic of retaining one and not the other?
>>>>>> It cannot be Test Match Special as this is available on Five Live
>>>>>> Sports Extra.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of the R4 MW fillers continue to broadcast. The Beeb have said that
>>>>> the Radio 4 LW 'opt out' programming (which is also carried on the MW
>>>>> fillers) will cease at the end of March next year. From that point there
>>>>> will be no need for the MW fillers to continue, and some are expecting
>>>>> all of them to be switched off in April.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for 198 LW itself, who knows, the energy companies still have
>>>>> hundreds of thousands of teleswitches in use, so fortunes are
>>>>> intertwined with that mess.
>>>>>
>>>> If the LW transmitters are only to be used for radio teleswitching, can the
>>>> carrier be funded in power or turned off when switching commands are not
>>>> being issued?
>>>
>>> It's 25 BIT per second data carousel, that has to address various
>>> batches of devices with different tariffs. I think it has to be more or
>>> less continuously transmitted ?
>>>
>>> Anyway, switching Droitwich (etc) on and off is going to shorten the
>>> life of the valves etc even faster !
>>
>> What do the Danes do at Kalundborg? I understood they broadcast
>> shipping forcasts and news summaries only with long periods of
>> silence.
>
>Transmitting silence is a little bit cheaper I suppose

Also, as an aside, where did 720 kHz (417 metres) come from? I cannot
find it as one of the old BBC wavelengths. As far as I can see, it was
first used by LBC. Is it one of these 'international' frequencies
that can be used at low power by anyone?

On 20/11/2023 12:04, Scott wrote:

> Also, as an aside, where did 720 kHz (417 metres) come from? I cannot
> find it as one of the old BBC wavelengths. As far as I can see, it was
> first used by LBC. Is it one of these 'international' frequencies
> that can be used at low power by anyone?

Well, it's an interesting question. The IBA had never intended to use
the frequency (719 pre 1978) but owing to planning delays for Saffron
Green they had to find two temporary allocations, at the bottom end of
the MF band for a temporary lash up at Lots Road power station.

They obtained 719 and 557. 719 didn't seem to be an issue, but 557 was
being used by by Radio Veronica, an offshore pirate station. The IBA dug
their heals in, and there was a bit of a kurfffle, but Capital launched
on 557 (539m).

Anyway, LBC moved to 1151kHz at Saffron Green in May 1975, but the Beeb
resurrected the Lots Road site and used 720 kHz from 1979, after a
year's worth of complaints from London R4 listeners that they couldn't
receive LW properly (as of course R4 moved to LW in Nov 78)

720 has been used in N.Ireland for R4 since Nov 78. I can't find any
record of it being used anywhere else in the UK other than for R4 in
London and NI ?

Further reading regarding Lots Road

<https://www.bbceng.info/Technical%20Reviews/tott/39-42_G4OYX_Signal_Issue_56.pdf>

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 20/11/2023 12:04, Scott wrote:
>
>> Also, as an aside, where did 720 kHz (417 metres) come from? I cannot
>> find it as one of the old BBC wavelengths. As far as I can see, it was
>> first used by LBC. Is it one of these 'international' frequencies
>> that can be used at low power by anyone?
>
>Well, it's an interesting question. The IBA had never intended to use
>the frequency (719 pre 1978) but owing to planning delays for Saffron
>Green they had to find two temporary allocations, at the bottom end of
>the MF band for a temporary lash up at Lots Road power station.
>
>They obtained 719 and 557. 719 didn't seem to be an issue, but 557 was
>being used by by Radio Veronica, an offshore pirate station. The IBA dug
>their heals in, and there was a bit of a kurfffle, but Capital launched
>on 557 (539m).
>
>Anyway, LBC moved to 1151kHz at Saffron Green in May 1975, but the Beeb
>resurrected the Lots Road site and used 720 kHz from 1979, after a
>year's worth of complaints from London R4 listeners that they couldn't
>receive LW properly (as of course R4 moved to LW in Nov 78)

I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
station was scheduled for demolition.
>
>720 has been used in N.Ireland for R4 since Nov 78. I can't find any
>record of it being used anywhere else in the UK other than for R4 in
>London and NI ?

It's a decent signal. It can be received in Glasgow.
>
>Further reading regarding Lots Road
>
><https://www.bbceng.info/Technical%20Reviews/tott/39-42_G4OYX_Signal_Issue_56.pdf>

Thanks for that. It looks like the use of the frequency was
negotiated with another authorised user, presumably elsewhere in
Europe. I assume Northern Ireland would be less of an issue in that
regard.

On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
> station was scheduled for demolition.

Was it Lots Road where they had the very advance sophisticated system
for the transmitters. They let the phone ring n times and the
transmitter reset.

Someone from ITA, IBA (or whatever they were called that week) told me
about it many years ago.

Belfast Telegraph - Thursday 11 March 1976

BBC RADIO IN NORTHERN IRELAND

Radio 4 417 m 719 khz

The Stage - Thursday 13 September 1979

New frequency
"The long wave reception problems remain in some areas," said Miss Sims,
"but in central London a new medium wave frequency should provide an
alternative for listeners who live in steel framed buildings or suffer
electrical interference." We understand that the new frequency is to be
720kHz (417m) which should improve the Radio 4 signal considerably in
the daytime.
However, some interference may be found at night because the same
frequency has been allocated to a German station.
Ian Mclntyre's desire for flexibility, something he plans for Radio 3 of
which he is now controller, is, however, one of Monica Sims's principal
aims. But she is quick to point out that this does not mean doing away
with long established and popular series which are. as she says, "part
of the daily lives of Radio 4 listeners."

On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>

> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
> station was scheduled for demolition.

Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.

Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:27:48 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>
>> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
>> station was scheduled for demolition.
>
>Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
>Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
>analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.
>
>Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !

Would this not have caused similar issues at Lots Road, or was it
because it was a shared mast? Surely this problem must have been known
about.

On 21/11/2023 19:23, Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:27:48 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>
>>> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
>>> station was scheduled for demolition.
>>
>> Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
>> Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
>> analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.
>>
>> Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !
>
> Would this not have caused similar issues at Lots Road, or was it
> because it was a shared mast? Surely this problem must have been known
> about.

There was no TV transmitter at Lots Road

Not a unique problem though
http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:39:56 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 21/11/2023 19:23, Scott wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:27:48 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>>
>>>> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
>>>> station was scheduled for demolition.
>>>
>>> Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
>>> Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
>>> analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.
>>>
>>> Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !
>>
>> Would this not have caused similar issues at Lots Road, or was it
>> because it was a shared mast? Surely this problem must have been known
>> about.
>
>There was no TV transmitter at Lots Road
>
>Not a unique problem though
>http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml

My security package (Bitdefender) says the link is suspicious then
comes a message 'Not found'.

I know there was no TV transmitter at Lots Road but I thought the 720
kHz signal might be interfering with the TV receivers (like 5G, though
I have never heard of this happening). If this was a known problem,
why would they put a MW transmitter on a TV mast rather than adding it
to Brookmans Park or Saffron Green (as NI did at Lisnagarvey returning
to topic) or any other suitable high building?

On 22/11/2023 10:20, Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:39:56 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 21/11/2023 19:23, Scott wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:27:48 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>>>
>>>>> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
>>>>> station was scheduled for demolition.
>>>>
>>>> Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
>>>> Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
>>>> analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.
>>>>
>>>> Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !
>>>
>>> Would this not have caused similar issues at Lots Road, or was it
>>> because it was a shared mast? Surely this problem must have been known
>>> about.
>>
>> There was no TV transmitter at Lots Road
>>
>> Not a unique problem though
>> http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml
>
> My security package (Bitdefender) says the link is suspicious then
> comes a message 'Not found'.
>
> I know there was no TV transmitter at Lots Road but I thought the 720
> kHz signal might be interfering with the TV receivers (like 5G, though
> I have never heard of this happening). If this was a known problem,
> why would they put a MW transmitter on a TV mast rather than adding it
> to Brookmans Park or Saffron Green (as NI did at Lisnagarvey returning
> to topic) or any other suitable high building?

I wasn't talking about TV receivers being interfered with. The problem
was the AM signal getting into the baseband video and audio circuits of
the TV transmitters at the site, and so affecting the transmitted signals.

Scott wrote:

> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>> http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml
>
> My security package (Bitdefender) says the link is suspicious

VirusTotal (which includes BitDefender) disagrees

<https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/2058fde486be154a7a6ea562c5d3c186ffea49d3d7d758a4621973a214e4adc7>

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 10:23:44 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 22/11/2023 10:20, Scott wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:39:56 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/11/2023 19:23, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:27:48 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/11/2023 20:29, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:29:26 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand it was relocated to Crystal Palace when Lots Road power
>>>>>> station was scheduled for demolition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes it did, and was apparently not welcome. 720 (and 558 kHz which
>>>>> Spectrum/Panjab Radio uses) are carriers easily visible as patterning in
>>>>> analogue TV video. Used to get into everything there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not so much or a problem now TV is digital !
>>>>
>>>> Would this not have caused similar issues at Lots Road, or was it
>>>> because it was a shared mast? Surely this problem must have been known
>>>> about.
>>>
>>> There was no TV transmitter at Lots Road
>>>
>>> Not a unique problem though
>>> http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml
>>
>> My security package (Bitdefender) says the link is suspicious then
>> comes a message 'Not found'.
>>
>> I know there was no TV transmitter at Lots Road but I thought the 720
>> kHz signal might be interfering with the TV receivers (like 5G, though
>> I have never heard of this happening). If this was a known problem,
>> why would they put a MW transmitter on a TV mast rather than adding it
>> to Brookmans Park or Saffron Green (as NI did at Lisnagarvey returning
>> to topic) or any other suitable high building?
>
>I wasn't talking about TV receivers being interfered with. The problem
>was the AM signal getting into the baseband video and audio circuits of
>the TV transmitters at the site, and so affecting the transmitted signals.

Sorry. I wondered. My technical knowledge is a bit limited for a
'tech' group :-(

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 10:32:40 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>> http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/coldfield/11.shtml
>>
>> My security package (Bitdefender) says the link is suspicious
>
>VirusTotal (which includes BitDefender) disagrees
>
><https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/2058fde486be154a7a6ea562c5d3c186ffea49d3d7d758a4621973a214e4adc7>

I'll look into this. Now it is getting past Bitdefender okay but with
a DreamHost message 'Site not found'.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 10:23:44 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>I wasn't talking about TV receivers being interfered with. The problem
>was the AM signal getting into the baseband video and audio circuits of
>the TV transmitters at the site, and so affecting the transmitted signals.

I may have told this story before, but even so, you're going to get it
again :-)

When I first started with the BBC, the shift AS Tel E [1] had started
at AP before the war. Apparently, it was the devil's own job to keep
the transmitters there out of the vision signal system, to the extent
that all the vision apparatus was housed within double copper boxes,
with the seams continuously soldered.

[1] The only person I have ever met whose staff number contained only
four digits.

--

Brian

Beware the spamtrap by Kubrick.