What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

Am 01.12.23 um 15:03 schrieb Cameo:
> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

Neither nor.

Li-Ion-Batteries last longest if they are kept between 40% and 80%
charging level.

The worst is draining to zero. That will kill Li-Ion almost instantly.
Also avoid longterm exposure above 35°C.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-12-01 14:03:30 +0000, Cameo said:
>
> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

It depends on the device and battery type. The advice for most devices
these days is to try to keep them charged in the 20%-80% range. Many
newer devices have software that won't let them be charged to 100% at
certain times and/or environmental temperatures anwyay.

On 12/1/2023 3:26 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 01.12.23 um 15:03 schrieb Cameo:
>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>
> Neither nor.
>
> Li-Ion-Batteries last longest if they are kept between 40% and 80%
> charging level.
>
> The worst is draining to zero. That will kill Li-Ion almost instantly.
> Also avoid longterm exposure above 35°C.
>

Thanks. Good to know. BTW, do the new iPhones have some kind of
circuitry to prevent overcharging? Or is it in the charger itself?

Am 01.12.23 um 22:55 schrieb Cameo:
> On 12/1/2023 3:26 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 01.12.23 um 15:03 schrieb Cameo:
>>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>>
>> Neither nor.
>>
>> Li-Ion-Batteries last longest if they are kept between 40% and 80%
>> charging level.
>>
>> The worst is draining to zero. That will kill Li-Ion almost instantly.
>> Also avoid longterm exposure above 35°C.
>>
>
> Thanks. Good to know. BTW, do the new iPhones have some kind of
> circuitry to prevent overcharging? Or is it in the charger itself?

In the iPhone itself. It also controls the optimised charging.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-12-01, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

It's far better to keep it topped off than to allow it to drain
significantly. iPhones have a feature called Optimized Charging that
trickle charges past 80% so that you don't need to worry about
overcharging even when fast charging.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-12-01 09:03, Cameo wrote:
> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

CW: Keep the battery between 20% and 80%. Newest iPhone has an 80%
limit option. (Not sure why Apple didn't include the option for older
iPhones running iOS 17 ...).

You can also get apps and external charger to hold that on older versions

Unused phones: Store at about 50% (40%..69%).

Occasionally drain it to 0% solely to calibrate the charge level
monitor. (I do this accidentally at least 2x per year and that is all
that takes).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-01 09:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 01.12.23 um 15:03 schrieb Cameo:
>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>
> Neither nor.
>
> Li-Ion-Batteries last longest if they are kept between 40% and 80%
> charging level.
>
> The worst is draining to zero. That will kill Li-Ion almost instantly.

No. When a smartphone is indicating 0%, the battery voltage is still
well above the damage zone for Li-ion batteries. This point is about
2.8V per cell.

When a Li-ion battery gets somewhere below 2.5V, then damage may occur.
Specialized battery charges can recover such batteries (this is not in
smartphones).

So when you discharge to "0%" there is still a sufficient margin of
safety for the battery. Enough that even months of storage won't harm
it. (but in a smartphone there are likely other "loads" on there that
will deplete it within that time).

Thus I try not to let it get below 20% often, but I certainly don't
worry when it gets to 0% and shuts down. IAC - that's a calibration
point it learns for the battery meter.

> Also avoid longterm exposure above 35°C.

Yes.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-01 16:55, Cameo wrote:
> On 12/1/2023 3:26 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 01.12.23 um 15:03 schrieb Cameo:
>>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>>
>> Neither nor.
>>
>> Li-Ion-Batteries last longest if they are kept between 40% and 80%
>> charging level.
>>
>> The worst is draining to zero. That will kill Li-Ion almost instantly.
>> Also avoid longterm exposure above 35°C.
>>
>
> Thanks. Good to know. BTW, do the new iPhones have some kind of
> circuitry to prevent overcharging? Or is it in the charger itself?

Li-ion chargers, regardless of the application, are designed to protect
against (All voltages for single cell batteries - or parallel cell
batteries). This is done by a device often called a "charge controller".

-Undercharge. When voltage gets to about 2.8V, the charge controller
isolates the battery to the open state[1].

-Overcharge. When voltage gets to about 4.2V, the charge controller
stops letting current flow to the battery.

-Load Short Circuit: should the load on the battery be too high, as in a
short circuit, the charge controller will isolate the battery to open state.

[1] Some device's charge controller (smartphones included) will
continues to supply power to some low current draw components while
denying power to the main device.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 12/2/2023 4:40 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-01 09:03, Cameo wrote:
>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>
> CW: Keep the battery between 20% and 80%.  Newest iPhone has an 80%
> limit option.  (Not sure why Apple didn't include the option for older
> iPhones running iOS 17 ...).
>
> You can also get apps and external charger to hold that on older versions
>
> Unused phones: Store at about 50% (40%..69%).
>
> Occasionally drain it to 0% solely to calibrate the charge level
> monitor.  (I do this accidentally at least 2x per year and that is all
> that takes).

So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
connected it to the charger before setting it up.

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote

> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
> connected it to the charger before setting it up.

If you own an iPhone, you're already doomed in terms of overall battery
life expectancy - because Apple cheated you on battery capacity. Big time.

First off, you're being advised by utter fools, where the most important
aspect of battery life isn't what _you_ do, but what the OEM did.

Your OEM, unfortunately, provided you with the crappiest battery it could
get away with (if you don't believe me, compare the capacity to others).

Given Apple gave you the crappiest cheapest battery it could get away with,
you're already doomed to a low long-term battery life just because of that.

And I already know what the ignorant uneducated iKooks will claim, which is
that when the battery is brand new, it "lasts all day" but what they can't
ever comprehend is that a new battery isn't the same as an old battery.

The iKooks have such a low IQ that thinking ahead by a year or two is
completely incomprehensible to them... they'll just stutter...
"*bbbbbuuuuuttttt... it lasted all day.... at the very beginning...*"

Idiots. All these iKooks own a low IQ because that idiocy comes from them.

It's incomprehensible to the iKooks that how long a battery lasts when it's
brand new isn't the same as how long it lasts when it is two years old.

In summary, you're being advised by idiots, where they have no
comprehension that you're doomed from the start because of Apple's decision
to cheap out on battery capacity.

Hence, your first choice should have been a phone with a better battery.
--
BTW, Apple paid over a billion dollars for not understanding it themselves.

On 12/3/2023 4:56 PM, Wally J wrote:
> Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>
>> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
>> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
>> connected it to the charger before setting it up.
>
> If you own an iPhone, you're already doomed in terms of overall battery
> life expectancy - because Apple cheated you on battery capacity. Big time.
>
> First off, you're being advised by utter fools, where the most important
> aspect of battery life isn't what _you_ do, but what the OEM did.
>
> Your OEM, unfortunately, provided you with the crappiest battery it could
> get away with (if you don't believe me, compare the capacity to others).
>
> Given Apple gave you the crappiest cheapest battery it could get away with,
> you're already doomed to a low long-term battery life just because of that.
>
> And I already know what the ignorant uneducated iKooks will claim, which is
> that when the battery is brand new, it "lasts all day" but what they can't
> ever comprehend is that a new battery isn't the same as an old battery.
>
> The iKooks have such a low IQ that thinking ahead by a year or two is
> completely incomprehensible to them... they'll just stutter...
> "*bbbbbuuuuuttttt... it lasted all day.... at the very beginning...*"
>
> Idiots. All these iKooks own a low IQ because that idiocy comes from them.
>
> It's incomprehensible to the iKooks that how long a battery lasts when it's
> brand new isn't the same as how long it lasts when it is two years old.
>
> In summary, you're being advised by idiots, where they have no
> comprehension that you're doomed from the start because of Apple's decision
> to cheap out on battery capacity.
>
> Hence, your first choice should have been a phone with a better battery.

We shall see. So far I cannot complain about my Pro Max-s battery life
and I have not experienced any of the claimed overheating, either.
So knock on wood.

On 2023-12-03, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/2/2023 4:40 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-01 09:03, Cameo wrote:
>>>
>>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it
>>> almost fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>>
>> CW: Keep the battery between 20% and 80%.  Newest iPhone has an 80%
>> limit option.  (Not sure why Apple didn't include the option for
>> older iPhones running iOS 17 ...).
>>
>> You can also get apps and external charger to hold that on older
>> versions
>>
>> Unused phones: Store at about 50% (40%..69%).
>>
>> Occasionally drain it to 0% solely to calibrate the charge level
>> monitor.  (I do this accidentally at least 2x per year and that is
>> all that takes).
>
> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
> connected it to the charger before setting it up.

And that's not a problem. Apple designed iPhones to charge to 100%, and
they automatically slow charge past 80%. All batteries have finite
lifespans. They are literally designed to be *used*, gradually die, and
eventually be replaced. Replacing an iPhone battery isn't expensive and
can be done while you wait. People who babysit their batteries and
purposely refrain from charging them past 80% are not only reducing
runtime, but are completely missing the point which is that you are
supposed to use and enjoy your iPhone as designed. Not only that, but
they are constantly maintaining awareness of their battery charge levels
and health which adds needless stress to their days. It's foolish and a
waste of time.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-12-03, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/3/2023 4:56 PM, Wally J wrote:
>> Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>>
>>> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
>>> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
>>> connected it to the charger before setting it up.
>>
>> [troll blathering rightfully ignored]
>>
>
> We shall see. So far I cannot complain about my Pro Max-s battery life
> and I have not experienced any of the claimed overheating, either.
> So knock on wood.

Wally is a well-known Apple-hating troll who comes into threads like
this to shit on Apple and insult Apple users. You can ignore his troll
posts. 😉

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-12-03 07:56, Wally J wrote:
> Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>
>> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
>> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
>> connected it to the charger before setting it up.
>
> If you own an iPhone, you're already doomed in terms of overall battery
> life expectancy - because Apple cheated you on battery capacity. Big time.

This is simply false.

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

> Wally is a well-known Apple-hating troll who comes into threads like
> this to shit on Apple and insult Apple users. You can ignore his troll
> posts.

To Cameo:
What Jolly Roger failed to mention is that I was & am 100% correct.
Jolly Roger did not refute that fact (because he can't refute it).
Nobody but a fool refutes facts (that's why they're fools after all).

Hi Jolly Roger,

I love you. I love when you post because I learn how you think.

I accept that you hate me only because you hate that everything I say is
true about Apple products - which really means - you hate Apple products.

More specifically, you hate that I said a truth that you can't refute.
So you attacked me. Because you hate the truth about Apple products.

Specifically, you hate that I told Cameo the truth about battery lifespan.

What Jolly Roger failed to mention is that I'm always correct on the facts.

HINT: All iPhones are made with cheap substandard low battery capacity.
DOUBLEHINT: The most important battery lifespan metric is battery capacity.

Look up the size of my _free_ Android phone's battery, by the way.
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G. It's 5 amp hours. And that's a _cheap_ battery.

Compare that super cheap battery to what you have in an iPhone.
Note that the iPhone is even worse than that.
Much worse.

BTW, my free phone is already almost three years old and running quite
strongly in all respects (easily lasts two days and charges in an hour or
two with the charger that came with it in the box), and it has an aux port
and sd slot for portable memory).

All that for a phone whose MSRP is in the two hundred dollar range.

In summary, I accept that not only does Jolly Roger hate me because Jolly
ROger has no defense to the facts, but that also means Jolly Roger hates
all facts about Apple products (which is what I conveyed to Cameo).

So be it.
--
The iKooks actually hate that Apple doesn't do what Apple says they do.

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 10:23:08 -0800, Alan wrote:

>> If you own an iPhone, you're already doomed in terms of overall battery
>> life expectancy - because Apple cheated you on battery capacity. Big time.
>
> This is simply false.

What's the battery capacity of the OP's phone?

On 3 Dec 2023 17:06:14 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
>> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
>> connected it to the charger before setting it up.
>
> And that's not a problem. Apple designed iPhones to charge to 100%, and
> they automatically slow charge past 80%. All batteries have finite
> lifespans. They are literally designed to be *used*, gradually die, and
> eventually be replaced. Replacing an iPhone battery isn't expensive and
> can be done while you wait. People who babysit their batteries and
> purposely refrain from charging them past 80% are not only reducing
> runtime, but are completely missing the point which is that you are
> supposed to use and enjoy your iPhone as designed. Not only that, but
> they are constantly maintaining awareness of their battery charge levels
> and health which adds needless stress to their days. It's foolish and a
> waste of time.

How much does it cost for the OP to have Apple replace his iPhone battery?

On 2023-12-03 11:07, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>> Wally is a well-known Apple-hating troll who comes into threads like
>> this to shit on Apple and insult Apple users. You can ignore his troll
>> posts.
>
> To Cameo:
> What Jolly Roger failed to mention is that I was & am 100% correct.
> Jolly Roger did not refute that fact (because he can't refute it).
> Nobody but a fool refutes facts (that's why they're fools after all).

One thing YOU just failed to refute was that you're an Apple-hating troll.

>
> Hi Jolly Roger,
>
> I love you. I love when you post because I learn how you think.
>
> I accept that you hate me only because you hate that everything I say is
> true about Apple products - which really means - you hate Apple products.
>
> More specifically, you hate that I said a truth that you can't refute.
> So you attacked me. Because you hate the truth about Apple products.
>
> Specifically, you hate that I told Cameo the truth about battery lifespan.
>
> What Jolly Roger failed to mention is that I'm always correct on the facts.
>
> HINT: All iPhones are made with cheap substandard low battery capacity.

False.

> DOUBLEHINT: The most important battery lifespan metric is battery capacity.

Fals.

>
> Look up the size of my _free_ Android phone's battery, by the way.
> Samsung Galaxy A32-5G. It's 5 amp hours. And that's a _cheap_ battery.

Capacity is irrelevant...

....if you don't also consider energy usage.

On 2023-12-03 11:18, Oscar Mayer wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 10:23:08 -0800, Alan wrote:
>
>>> If you own an iPhone, you're already doomed in terms of overall battery
>>> life expectancy - because Apple cheated you on battery capacity. Big
>>> time.
>>
>> This is simply false.
>
> What's the battery capacity of the OP's phone?

I don't need to know.

What I DO know is that Apple's iPhones rank among the very best in
battery life.

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote

> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?

Luckily for you, folks already told you the basics about charging settings
(keep it roughly in the midrange of its capacity as much as you can).

Unfortunately for you, original battery capacity is the real killer here.
Apple puts cheap crummy batteries in iPhones - that's just a known fact.

Just compare the battery capacity of any iPhone to the average Android.
The Apple battery will almost always be vastly substandard in this, the
absolutely most critical specification for overall battery longevity.

*Battery Capacity*

However, at this point, you already bought the damn thing, so you're stuck
with that cheap battery; so all you can do moving forward is described in
this article since everyone with an iPhone endures that crappy capacity.

*18 Tips to Make Your iPhone 15's Battery Last Longer*
<https://www.macrumors.com/guide/iphone-15-battery-tips/>

1. Turn Off Live Activities
2. Delete Lock Screen and Home Screen Widgets
Turn Off Live Voicemail
4. Turn Off Proximity AirDrop Sharing
5. Take Advantage of Offline Maps
6. Disable Haptic Keyboard Feedback
7. Turn Off Always-On Display (iPhone 15 Pro)
8. Choose Non-Animated Wallpapers
9. Use Focus Modes
10. Use Scheduled Summary
11. Limit When and How Often Apps Can Access Location
12. Limit Apps Using Bluetooth
13. Use Low Power Mode
14. Use Wi-Fi and Airplane Mode
15. Manage Apps Draining Battery
16. Limit Background Activity
17. Turn Down Screen Brightness
18. Change Your Mail Settings

Hope this helps, as you're going to need all the help you can get,
mostly because Apple doomed your battery capacity from the start.
--
The iKooks hate me because I write facts about Apple they can't refute.
So be it.

On 2023-12-03 12:44, Wally J wrote:
> Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>
>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it almost
>> fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>
> Luckily for you, folks already told you the basics about charging settings
> (keep it roughly in the midrange of its capacity as much as you can).
>
> Unfortunately for you, original battery capacity is the real killer here.
> Apple puts cheap crummy batteries in iPhones - that's just a known fact.

No. This is a falsehood.

>
> Just compare the battery capacity of any iPhone to the average Android.
> The Apple battery will almost always be vastly substandard in this, the
> absolutely most critical specification for overall battery longevity.

Capacity is only relevant when compared to energy usage.

On 2023-12-03 09:44, Cameo wrote:
> On 12/2/2023 4:40 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-01 09:03, Cameo wrote:
>>> What would do it better? Draining it till practical, or keep it
>>> almost fully charged by having it on charger when not in use?
>>
>> CW: Keep the battery between 20% and 80%.  Newest iPhone has an 80%
>> limit option.  (Not sure why Apple didn't include the option for older
>> iPhones running iOS 17 ...).
>>
>> You can also get apps and external charger to hold that on older versions
>>
>> Unused phones: Store at about 50% (40%..69%).

60%

>> Occasionally drain it to 0% solely to calibrate the charge level
>> monitor.  (I do this accidentally at least 2x per year and that is all
>> that takes).
>
> So this may explain why my new iPhone 15 Pro Max came at about 80%
> charge in the box? Not knowing then what I know now, I immediately
> connected it to the charger before setting it up.

Probably.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:27:30 -0800, Alan wrote:

>> What's the battery capacity of the OP's phone?
>
> I don't need to know.

You do know. The capacity is terrible. That's why you won't say what it is.

On 2023-12-03 16:32, Oscar Mayer wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:27:30 -0800, Alan wrote:
>
>>> What's the battery capacity of the OP's phone?
>>
>> I don't need to know.
>
> You do know. The capacity is terrible. That's why you won't say what it is.

It's not terrible.

Measuring "capacity" by milliamp-hours is a mugs game.

A ONE milliamp-hour battery has terrific capacity...

....if the device that uses it only needs one microamp.