Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
turn it off and on:

https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 4/19/2024 4:34 PM, Cameo wrote:

> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

I didn't know what UWB was for on a smartphone, so I looked it up.
"UWB allows short-range wireless communication for precise location
tracking, keyless car entry, data transfer, and other features on
compatible Android and Apple phones."

UWB is apparently a component of all iPhones from the iPhone 11 on up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UWB-enabled_mobile_devices

Looking up what people use it for, apparently it works with cars too.
"UWB was developed as a protocol to transfer data. Its ability to detect
and track nearby objects made it essential for modern devices and cars.
Select BMW, Audi, Ford, Tesla, and Hyundai models support digital car key
via UWB and/or NFC for keyless entry."

On both Android & on iOS you just turn it on or off, and that's it.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254750118?sortBy=best

But you don't turn it on if you don't have a use for it, normally anyway.
Which of those are you seeking to use the UWB for?

Keyless car entry:
With a UWB-powered phone, you don't need to pull out the device and hover
over the car handle to unlock it. You can keep your phone in your pocket
and let UWB authenticate your identity in no time.

Device tracking:
You can attach a smart tracker, like the Galaxy SmartTag, to your wallet,
pet, or bike and track precise locations in real time.

Smart home automation:
Your home can unlock itself via UWB when it detects your phone in your
pocket. Your smart devices, like fans, AC, and lights, can also communicate
when you enter the room.

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>
> What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
> turn it off and on:
>
> https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios
>

Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Am 20.04.24 um 05:15 schrieb Cameo:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>
>> What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
>> turn it off and on:
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios
>>
>
> Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

The Flight Mode turns ist off as explained in the article.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2024-04-20, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>
>> What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
>> turn it off and on:
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios
>
> Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

Airplane Mode turns it off. Pretty sure you were already told that once.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-04-20 03:15:03 +0000, Cameo said:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
>>>
>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>
>> What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
>> turn it off and on:
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios
>
> Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.

The Ultra Wideband system doesn't have nor need any user-level
modification, so there is no specific "on-off switch" for it. It is
automatically turned off and on as part of the function of the Airplane
Mode switch on iPhone 11 and newer:

Ultra Wideband must be turned off when onboard aircraft, ships,
and other prohibited regions by turning on airplane mode. To turn
on airplane mode, open Control Center, then tap plane icon. You
can also turn airplane mode on or off in Settings. When airplane
mode is on, the plane icon appears in the status bar.

Ultra Wideband is also not available in a few countries:
- Armenia
- Azerbaijan
- Belarus
- Indonesia
- Kazakhstan
- Kyrgyzstan
- Nepal
- Russia
- Tajikistan
- Turkmenistan
- Ukraine
- Uzbekistan

On 2024-04-19 16:34, Cameo wrote:
> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.

UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
user doesn't need to worry about much.

(To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
Apple devices).

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:34:28 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote

> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

"Because UWB's locating abilities are so precise, beacons provide an
easy way to track and stalk people."

Why do you think it's only Apple devices that can't turn their UWB off?

Apple has a vested interest in making profits off of consumers who
unknowingly transmit their location to every beacon in the store.

Therefore, Apple made it impossible to use the iPhone without USB.

Airplane mode is NOT a specific toggle for UWB - it's a general toggle for
all radios, and when in Airplane mode, the iPhone ceases to be a phone.

Yet Android provides a specific toggle for UWB (on or off) at will.
https://www.androidpolice.com/enable-ultra-wideband-android/

This on/off control of UWB is mainly for power & privacy reasons.
https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise

"Ultra-Wideband ("UWB") is a short-range wireless technology somewhat
like Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, but with superior locating abilities, enabling the
highly accurate identification of an object's position in three-dimensional
space.

UWB capabilities are now standard on many newer-model smartphones,
allowing users to track UWB-enabled beacons from their smartphones and
allowing vendors to leverage inbuilt UWB capabilities to create massive
sensor networks using unwitting users' mobile devices.

This report focuses on privacy and anti-trust concerns surrounding UWB
beacons, the tip of the iceberg of planned UWB applications.

Because UWB's locating abilities are so precise, beacons provide an easy
way to track and stalk people.

Beacons pass detailed device location data through neighboring devices'
networks, introducing the twin risks of malicious hacking and commercial
exploitation by vendors.

Apple and Amazon have acted to shut competitors out of the UWB beacon
space, demonstrating a clear linkage between the story of these beacons and
the larger story of Big Tech anti-trust concerns."

Apple does not want you to be able to have the privacy that Android has
because Apple is making profits off of you by selling your location.

On 2024-04-20 10:02, Oliver wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:34:28 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>
>   "Because UWB's

Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:46:04 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> No added value.

And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?

Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.

Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!

You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.

On 2024-04-20 08:40, Quincy the fifth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:46:04 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>> No added value.
>
> And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
> give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
> location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>
> Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?
>
> Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
> an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
> it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.
>
> Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!
>
> You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
> who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.

1. You provide no evidence for your assertion.

2. You're Arlen.

Am 20.04.24 um 18:11 schrieb Alan:
> On 2024-04-20 08:40, Quincy the fifth wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:46:04 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No added value.
>>
>> And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
>> give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
>> location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>>
>> Don't you ever think WHY only Apple refuses to allow you to turn UWB off?
>>
>> Remember, Apple leads you iSheep to slaughter, which is why you can't use
>> an iPhone without logging into Apple's 24/7/356 tracking account, and if
>> it's an iPhone 11 or newer, every location movement is now tracked by UWB.
>>
>> Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!
>>
>> You can deny that added information is of any value to you, but for those
>> who care about their privacy - it's extremely useful information to know.
>
> 1. You provide no evidence for your assertion.
>
> 2. You're Arlen.

Sure:

Path:
eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.bofh.team!paganini.bofh.team!not-for-mail
From: Quincy the fifth <quincythefifth@telekom.net>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.privacy,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: Ultra Wide Band?
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 17:40:24 +0200
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <v00nl9$30tdm$1@paganini.bofh.team>
References: <uvukg7$36flq$1@dont-email.me>
<v00htu$3mtfd$1@dont-email.me> <MyQUN.1416$C2Oc.673@fx36.iad>
Injection-Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:40:25 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="3175862";
posting-host="MLR8YE4/vKN1nKYAmZBNrw.user.paganini.bofh.team";
mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team";
posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A";
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)

X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3
--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:11:26 -0700, Alan wrote:

> You provide no evidence for your assertion.

You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.

But not Apple.

Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).

Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.

The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.

Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).

Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
<https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

On 2024-04-20 11:40, Quincy the fifth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:46:04 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>> No added value.
>
> And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
> give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
> location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 18:38:19 +0200, Quincy the fifth wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:11:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> You provide no evidence for your assertion.
>
> You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>
> Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
> Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
>
> But not Apple.
>
> Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
> to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
>
> Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
> Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
>
> The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
> The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
>
> Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
> Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
>
> Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
> Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Apple only advertises privacy but Apple never provides any privacy.
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/

"In a recent empirical study Martin, Kirsten E., and Helen Nissenbaum show
that "that [UWB] tracking an individual's place - home, work, shopping - is
seen to violate privacy expectations, even without directly collecting GPS
data, that is, standard markers representing location in technical
systems."" https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3360409

If Apple actually cared about privacy, Apple would allow you to turn off
UWB and still use the phone but Apple won't give you that basic privacy.

Because Apple is profiting from selling your location information.

"One recent incident report by Brian Kreb, details how Apple continues to
collect location information, despite location-based system services being
disabled. According to Brian, Apple's response stated, "this behavior is
tied to the inclusion of a new short-range technology that lets iPhone 11
users share files locally with other nearby phones that support this
feature, and that a future version of its mobile operating system will
allow users to disable it"."
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-location-data-puzzler/

On 2024-04-20 09:38, Quincy the fifth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:11:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>
>> You provide no evidence for your assertion.
>
> You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

Nope. I clicked on it.

There is literally not a single word about:

'Apple sells your private location tracking information - tied to your ID!'

Interesting you snipped that, hmmm?

>
> Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
> Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
>
> But not Apple.
>
> Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
> to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
>
> Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
> Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
>
> The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
> The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
>
> Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
> Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
>
> Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
> Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

You've still not provided any evidence at all that Apple "sells" any
tracking information.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 12:42:08 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
>> give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
>> location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>
> A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.

It's quite clear you've never read anything other than Apple slick white
papers and ads, as Google was forced to belatedly include a switch to turn
UWB off - which was widely reported - and yet Apple refused you that basic
privacy (because Apple profits greatly from selling your location data).

You're completely clueless about Apple, but even Apple was forced to
address some of the U1 UWB privacy issues - which is news you missed.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/

Yet even today, only Apple doesn't allow users the basic privacy right to
turn UWB off, which means anyone can easily track iPhone users everywhere
they go. Apple even sells that private location data to advertisers.

https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
"The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."

Before you respond, you have to address why only Apple doesn't allow anyone
with an iPhone 11 or higher to have the basic privacy of turning UWB off.
https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/google-and-apple-are-interested-in-profits-not-privacy/

Cameo wrote:

> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?

Didn't Apple address that gaping privacy hole long ago in iOS 13?

"Spotted by journalist Brandon Butch and published on Twitter last week,
the new toggle switch to turn off UWB now exists in the "Networking &
Wireless" settings in beta versions of iOS 13.3.1, under Locations Services
> System Services. Beta versions are released early to developers to help
iron out kinks in the software, and it's not clear yet when 13.3.1 will be
released to the general public."

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/

On 2024-04-20 10:00, Quincy the fifth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 12:42:08 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>> And yet, there is added value in the link provided which Apple will never
>>> give you because the link shows Apple is profiting by selling your tracking
>>> location data. <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>>
>> A fear mongering article that is full of errors doesn't impress much.
>
> It's quite clear you've never read anything other than Apple slick white
> papers and ads, as Google was forced to belatedly include a switch to turn
> UWB off - which was widely reported - and yet Apple refused you that basic
> privacy (because Apple profits greatly from selling your location data).
>
> You're completely clueless about Apple, but even Apple was forced to
> address some of the U1 UWB privacy issues - which is news you missed.
> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/
>
> Yet even today, only Apple doesn't allow users the basic privacy right to
> turn UWB off, which means anyone can easily track iPhone users everywhere
> they go.

> Apple even sells that private location data to advertisers.

You keep saying that...

....but you've presented no evidence to support it.

>
> https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
> "The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
> locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
> tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."
>
> Before you respond, you have to address why only Apple doesn't allow anyone
> with an iPhone 11 or higher to have the basic privacy of turning UWB off.
> https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/google-and-apple-are-interested-in-profits-not-privacy/

That last URL doesn't even mention location privacy, Arlen.

On 2024-04-20 09:38, Quincy the fifth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:11:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>
>> You provide no evidence for your assertion.
>
> You denied the evidence without even clicking on the link provided.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>
>
> Only Apple prevents you from turning off UWB.
> Every other platform but iOS with UWB allows users basic privacy.
>
> But not Apple.
>
> Worse, you're logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 for your location tracking
> to be tied to your unique AppleID (which you can't remove from iOS).
>
> Android allows you to remove the tracking account. iOS doesn't.
> Android allows you to turn off UWB & still use the phone; iOS doesn't.
>
> The reason Android allows it is that it's important for privacy.
> The reason Apple doesn't is explained in the article you didn't read.
>
> Apple profits greatly from denying its users this basic UWB privacy.
> Says so in the link already provided (that you didn't click on).
>
> Do not respond until/unless you show you've clicked on the link.
> Here it is again for you to again & again claim it doesn't exist.
> <https://www.stopspying.org/scarilyprecise>

'Apple also stressed it doesn’t use the UWB feature to collect user
location data, and that this location checking resided “entirely on the
device.” Still, it’s nice that iPhone 11 users will now have a setting
to disable the feature if they want.'

<https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/apple-addresses-iphone-11-location-privacy-concern/>

On 2024-04-20, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-04-20 10:02, Oliver wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:34:28 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>
>>   "Because UWB's
>
> Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.

Yup. Just lame.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-04-20, Quincy the fifth <quincythefifth@telekom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:46:04 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> No added value.
>
> And yet, there is added value

Nope. You're just nym switcing and trolling, as usual.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-04-20, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Am 19.04.24 um 22:34 schrieb Cameo:
>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>
>>> What do you expect? This is nothing you can actively manage. You can
>>> turn it off and on:
>>>
>>> https://support.apple.com/de-ch/guide/iphone/iph771fd0aad/ios
>>
>> Fine, but I couldn’t find even that on-off switch.
>
> Airplane Mode turns it off. Pretty sure you were already told that once.
>

Airplane mode turns off all rádios, so that’s not much of a clue for most
people.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-04-19 16:34, Cameo wrote:
>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>
> As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
>
> UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate transfers
> and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office" function that the
> user doesn't need to worry about much.
>
> (To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data transfer in
> Apple devices).
>

That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones show it
with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they used to
indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep us in the
dark, sp it seems.