On 6 Mar 2024 at 20:55:46 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-06 08:07:38 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 22:07:29 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our
>>>>>> local Apple Store.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>>>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of?
>>>>>> How does each make you /feel/ please?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hard to answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>>>>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>>>>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>>>>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>>>>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>>>>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>>>>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>>>>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>>>>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>>>>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>>>>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>>>>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>>>>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>>>>
>>>>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>>>>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>>>>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>>>>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>>>>
>>>>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>>>>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>>>>> display.
>>>>>
>>>>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>>>>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>>>>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>>>>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>>>>> using this iMac M3).
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.
>>>>
>>>> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to
>>>> change it. However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on
>>>> to Sonoma. I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide
>>>> another 27 inch desktop computer before this one dies! I'm also using
>>>> an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux Mint and it does this quite well. I'm
>>>> impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac! Good for you!
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> (ACW added for info to others)
>>>
>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>
>> That is my understanding too.
>>
>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>
>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!
>> The Studio Display is just wonderful - but expensive!
>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need to have
>> lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>
> You can buy a build-to-order Mac Mini or Mac Studio with up to 8TB
> internal storage from the Apple Store or a reseller ... if your bank
> account can stand it.

Ha! Understood. :-)

> Long gone are the good old days of easily being able to add RAM or
> change drives or graphics cards in a Mac. It not even possible in the
> so-called "Mac Pro tower", making that just another pointless Mac
> model. :-(

Thank you for emphasising that. Many folk get caught out by this.

On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>
>> That is my understanding too.
>>
>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>
>> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is just
>> wonderful - but expensive!
>
> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
> It's worth every penny I paid for it.

Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)

>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>
> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.

Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so much
internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place of choice.
(I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)

On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>
>
> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
> punking out on doing so...
>
> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.

Imagine my consternation.

Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 04:06, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.03.24 um 20:52 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>
>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>
>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>
>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>
>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>
> QED: You live in you own bubble and you do not understand anymore what
> happens around your bubble.

Not at all. And the observations I make are simply that: observations.
They are just the numbers that show for similar operating conditions (my
typical any-time-of-day app load).

> Your Mac-selection does not impress anybody at all. My selection of Macs
> is bigger and all run on the same OS-version. Even one of this barbecue
> grills with an Intel-processor is part of it.

Between home and work I have a lot of Macs.

But, if you Google away, you will find a lot of people showing that the
Apple Silicon Macs do not live up to Apple's hype over not needing as
much memory as an intel Mac.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>
> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.

Just the numbers I see. Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>
> Idiot.

Stop looking in the mirror - it's bad for your ego.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load
>>>>> of apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>> yours on this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
>> punking out on doing so...
>>
>> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>
> Imagine my consternation.
>
> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>

The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...

....but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>
> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

On 2024-03-06 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 04:06, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.03.24 um 20:52 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>
>> QED: You live in you own bubble and you do not understand anymore what
>> happens around your bubble.
>
> Not at all.  And the observations I make are simply that: observations.
> They are just the numbers that show for similar operating conditions (my
> typical any-time-of-day app load).

Show the screenshots...

On 2024-03-06 21:40:42 +0000, dgb (David) said:
> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>
>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>
>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>
>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is just
>>> wonderful - but expensive!
>>
>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
>> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
>> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
>> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>
> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>
>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>
>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>
> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so much
> internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place of choice.
> (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)

Personally I would never use cloud storage.

Additional external USB drives are fine for most people, but if you're
doing high-end graphics or video work, then external Thunderbolt or
more internal storage would be better since it's a bit faster.

More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
system Applications folder.

On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 21:40:42 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>>
>>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>>
>>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>>
>>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!  The Studio Display is just
>>>> wonderful - but expensive!
>>>
>>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
>>> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
>>> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
>>> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>>
>> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>>
>>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>>>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>>
>>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>>
>> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so much
>> internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place of
>> choice.
>> (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)
>
> Personally I would never use cloud storage.
>
> Additional external USB drives are fine for most people, but if you're
> doing high-end graphics or video work, then external Thunderbolt or more
> internal storage would be better since it's a bit faster.
>
> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard system
> Applications folder.

Huh?

Give an example of one such application.

On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop
>>>> up from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>
>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>
>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>
>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is
>>> just wonderful - but expensive!
>>
>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio
>> Display is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle,
>> backlight consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and
>> camera quality. It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>
> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>
>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent)
>>> need to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>
>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>
> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so
> much internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage
> place of choice. (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet
> connection.)

iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are suggesting.

iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of your
devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically synced
(transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete something from
one device, it gets deleted from all of your other devices and iCloud.
There are more suitable services available for generic cloud file
storage.

I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.

I have multiple virtual machines, Docker containers, video editing
projects, and lots of other things on my Mac that simply aren't suitable
for cloud storage.

I back up my Apple mobile devices to my computer rather than the cloud.

The list goes on...

Like I said, I realize my needs aren't representative of most users. And
I don't mind paying for more internal storage on my Macs.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>> system Applications folder.
>
> Huh?
>
> Give an example of one such application.

I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>> system Applications folder.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Give an example of one such application.
>
> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>

How much?

To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire folder
to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...

....and it seems to work fine.

:-)

On 2024-03-06 18:17, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>
>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>
>
> How much?
>
> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire folder
> to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>
> ...and it seems to work fine.

But will creative cloud continue to notify you when updates are
available? It looks at /Applications to see which software you have
installed.

Same goes for anything obtained from the App Store -- remove them from
/Applications and the App Store will no longer notify you that updates
are available since it won't seem them as being installed.

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On 2024-03-06 17:25, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 18:17, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>>
>>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>>
>>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>>
>>
>> How much?
>>
>> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire
>> folder to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>>
>> ...and it seems to work fine.
>
> But will creative cloud continue to notify you when updates are
> available? It looks at /Applications to see which software you have
> installed.

Are you sure about that?

>
> Same goes for anything obtained from the App Store -- remove them from
> /Applications and the App Store will no longer notify you that updates
> are available since it won't seem them as being installed.

Really? Show it.

On 2024-03-07, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>
>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>
>
> How much?
>
> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire folder
> to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>
> ...and it seems to work fine.
>
>:-)

Report back to use after it has (or hasn't) updated correctly.

--
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JR

On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop
>>>>> up from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>>
>>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>>
>>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>>
>>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is
>>>> just wonderful - but expensive!
>>>
>>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio
>>> Display is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle,
>>> backlight consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and
>>> camera quality. It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>>
>> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>>
>>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent)
>>>> need to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>>
>>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>>
>> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so
>> much internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage
>> place of choice. (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet
>> connection.)
>
> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are suggesting.
>
> iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of your
> devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically synced
> (transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete something from
> one device, it gets deleted from all of your other devices and iCloud.
> There are more suitable services available for generic cloud file
> storage.

I don't think that is right. I believe iCloud can and does store material
without necessarily sending it to other Apple devices.

> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
> to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
> that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.

I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a small
monthly fee.

> I have multiple virtual machines, Docker containers, video editing
> projects, and lots of other things on my Mac that simply aren't suitable
> for cloud storage.

OK - thanks for explaining.

I've learned something new today!
https://www.docker.com/resources/what-container/

> I back up my Apple mobile devices to my computer rather than the cloud.

I glibly accept Apple's free service which seems to work as designed. Setting
up a new iPhone nowadays is a doddle! Just place the new one next to the old
one and "voilà - it's done!

HOW do you back up your mobile devices to your computer?

> The list goes on...
>
> Like I said, I realize my needs aren't representative of most users. And
> I don't mind paying for more internal storage on my Macs.

Understood. Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

--
David

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are suggesting.

The default setting isn’t the only setting. You can have a device with 128
GB of storage and 2 TB of data in iCloud if that’s what you want.

On 7 Mar 2024 at 15:47:08 GMT, "Alrescha" <news@alrescha.com> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are suggesting.
>
> The default setting isn’t the only setting. You can have a device with 128
> GB of storage and 2 TB of data in iCloud if that’s what you want.

That is my understanding too! :-)

On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>> suggesting.
>>
>> iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of your
>> devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically synced
>> (transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete something
>> from one device, it gets deleted from all of your other devices and
>> iCloud. There are more suitable services available for generic cloud
>> file storage.
>
> I don't think that is right.

It is right that's iCloud's primary purpose is synchronization.

> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
> sending it to other Apple devices.

That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos, contacts,
reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app settings, and so on
are all synchronized between all of your devices. Add one and it appears
on all of your devices. Remove one from one device, and it gets removed
from iCloud and your other devices.

>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause
>> me to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in
>> doing that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>
> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a
> small monthly fee.

Nothing wrong with that. It's good to have choices.

>> I have multiple virtual machines, Docker containers, video editing
>> projects, and lots of other things on my Mac that simply aren't
>> suitable for cloud storage.
>
> OK - thanks for explaining.
>
> I've learned something new today!
> https://www.docker.com/resources/what-container/
>
>> I back up my Apple mobile devices to my computer rather than the
>> cloud.
>
> I glibly accept Apple's free service which seems to work as designed.
> Setting up a new iPhone nowadays is a doddle! Just place the new one
> next to the old one and "voilà - it's done!
>
> HOW do you back up your mobile devices to your computer?

Apple has instructions on their website, which you can find with quick
web search for "back up iphone".

>> The list goes on...
>>
>> Like I said, I realize my needs aren't representative of most users.
>> And I don't mind paying for more internal storage on my Macs.
>
> Understood. Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

Sure.

--
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JR

On 2024-03-07, Alrescha <news@alrescha.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>> suggesting.
>
> The default setting isn’t the only setting. You can have a device
> with 128 GB of storage and 2 TB of data in iCloud if that’s what you
> want.

Not arbitrarily, no.

For instance, with iCloud Photos you can store more data in your iCloud
account than will fit on a given device. You can enabled Optimized
Storage to make more space available on your device by storing
low-resolution copies of the remaining photos on it, where
full-resolution photos are downloaded as needed.

But you can't upload 500 GB of photos to iCloud and not have them on any
of your devices because iCloud isn't an alternate generic cloud storage
solution you can use in that manner. And that's because it's primary
purpose is data synchronization between all of your devices.

--
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I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>>> suggesting.
>>>
>>> iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of your
>>> devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically synced
>>> (transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete something
>>> from one device, it gets deleted from all of your other devices and
>>> iCloud. There are more suitable services available for generic cloud
>>> file storage.
>>
>> I don't think that is right.
>
> It is right that's iCloud's primary purpose is synchronization.

OK - Being able to take a photograph on my iPhone and have the image almost
instantly available on my iMac and iPad is one of the best aspects of using
Apple.

>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>
> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos, contacts,
> reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app settings, and so on
> are all synchronized between all of your devices. Add one and it appears
> on all of your devices. Remove one from one device, and it gets removed
> from iCloud and your other devices.

I totally accept that!

However, I can store any other item I wish.

>>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause
>>> me to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in
>>> doing that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>>
>> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a
>> small monthly fee.
>
> Nothing wrong with that. It's good to have choices.

Agreed. :-)

>>> I have multiple virtual machines, Docker containers, video editing
>>> projects, and lots of other things on my Mac that simply aren't
>>> suitable for cloud storage.
>>
>> OK - thanks for explaining.
>>
>> I've learned something new today!
>> https://www.docker.com/resources/what-container/
>>
>>> I back up my Apple mobile devices to my computer rather than the
>>> cloud.
>>
>> I glibly accept Apple's free service which seems to work as designed.
>> Setting up a new iPhone nowadays is a doddle! Just place the new one
>> next to the old one and "voilà - it's done!
>>
>> HOW do you back up your mobile devices to your computer?
>
> Apple has instructions on their website, which you can find with quick
> web search for "back up iphone".

Thank you! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph3ecf67d29/ios

>>> The list goes on...
>>>
>>> Like I said, I realize my needs aren't representative of most users.
>>> And I don't mind paying for more internal storage on my Macs.
>>
>> Understood. Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.
>
> Sure.

I meant it! ;-)

On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>>>> suggesting.
>>>>
>>>> iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of
>>>> your devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically
>>>> synced (transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete
>>>> something from one device, it gets deleted from all of your other
>>>> devices and iCloud. There are more suitable services available for
>>>> generic cloud file storage.
>>>
>>> I don't think that is right.
>>
>> It is right that's iCloud's primary purpose is synchronization.
>
> OK - Being able to take a photograph on my iPhone and have the image
> almost instantly available on my iMac and iPad is one of the best
> aspects of using Apple.
>
>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>
>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos, contacts,
>> reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app settings, and so on
>> are all synchronized between all of your devices. Add one and it
>> appears on all of your devices. Remove one from one device, and it
>> gets removed from iCloud and your other devices.
>
> I totally accept that!
>
> However, I can store any other item I wish.

Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted from
your other devices.

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JR

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>
>> Imagine my consternation.
>>
>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>
>
> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>
> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

I have no obligation to do so.

What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>
>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>
>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>
> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

I'm not much into proving anything to you. You're simply not important.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.