On 2024-03-07 15:47:08 +0000, Alrescha said:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are suggesting.
>
> The default setting isn’t the only setting. You can have a device with 128
> GB of storage and 2 TB of data in iCloud if that’s what you want.

iCloud definitely *is* a storage option, Apple even says so:

"Store, organize and collaborate on files and folders
with iCloud Drive. Easily upload, delete or recover
files."

iCloud, if you use the syncing options, is not is a backup solution
though. It's too easy for a file / photo to be deleted from a device
and then it disppears from all your devices (although there is a grace
period where you can get it back).

On 2024-03-06 17:59, Your Name wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 21:40:42 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>>
>>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>>
>>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>>
>>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!  The Studio Display is just
>>>> wonderful - but expensive!
>>>
>>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
>>> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
>>> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
>>> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>>
>> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>>
>>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>>>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>>
>>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>>
>> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so much
>> internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place of
>> choice.
>> (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)
>
> Personally I would never use cloud storage.

Why not? It's very convenient to have some data available at multiple
places at any time.

Just don't treat it as a backup.

My business "daily" ops data is always on cloud. Just not backed up there.

>
> Additional external USB drives are fine for most people, but if you're
> doing high-end graphics or video work, then external Thunderbolt or more
> internal storage would be better since it's a bit faster.
>
> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard system
> Applications folder.

Most apps don't matter where they are run from. The executable can be
on volume x while the user data is on volume y. Large commercial,
complex apps, esp. with a license, will often be different of course.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-06 18:01, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 21:40:42 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>>>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!  The Studio Display is just
>>>>> wonderful - but expensive!
>>>>
>>>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>>>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
>>>> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
>>>> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
>>>> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>>>
>>> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>>>
>>>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>>>>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>>>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>>>
>>> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so much
>>> internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place
>>> of choice.
>>> (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)
>>
>> Personally I would never use cloud storage.
>>
>> Additional external USB drives are fine for most people, but if you're
>> doing high-end graphics or video work, then external Thunderbolt or
>> more internal storage would be better since it's a bit faster.
>>
>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>> system Applications folder.
>
> Huh?
>
> Give an example of one such application.

Shouldn't matter, but I doubt a licensed install of, eg, Photoshop
would work very well.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 7 Mar 2024 at 21:32:54 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>>>>> suggesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> iCloud's primary purpose is synchronizing content between all of
>>>>> your devices. If you add a file to iCloud, it is automatically
>>>>> synced (transferred) to all of your other devices. If you delete
>>>>> something from one device, it gets deleted from all of your other
>>>>> devices and iCloud. There are more suitable services available for
>>>>> generic cloud file storage.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that is right.
>>>
>>> It is right that's iCloud's primary purpose is synchronization.
>>
>> OK - Being able to take a photograph on my iPhone and have the image
>> almost instantly available on my iMac and iPad is one of the best
>> aspects of using Apple.
>>
>>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>>
>>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos, contacts,
>>> reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app settings, and so on
>>> are all synchronized between all of your devices. Add one and it
>>> appears on all of your devices. Remove one from one device, and it
>>> gets removed from iCloud and your other devices.
>>
>> I totally accept that!
>>
>> However, I can store any other item I wish.
>
> Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted from
> your other devices.

Perhaps you are not aware of changes made to iCloud.

If you put Documents into iCloud, they are not added to iPhone and/or iPad.

See:- https://i.ibb.co/ZfPsSjg/Screenshot-2024-03-07-at-22-19-10.png

HTH

On 2024-03-06 20:17, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>
>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>
>
> How much?
>
> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire folder
> to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>
> ...and it seems to work fine.
>
> :-)

And where does the license credential reside?

Can you now connect that external drive to a different Mac and run it
with the license credentials in effect?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-07 04:33, dgb (David) wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>

>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
>> to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
>> that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>
> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a small
> monthly fee.

Yeesh! I do hope you have separate copies on physical media that you
can access.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 7 Mar 2024 at 22:27:39 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07 04:33, dgb (David) wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
>>> to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
>>> that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>>
>> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a small
>> monthly fee.
>
> Yeesh! I do hope you have separate copies on physical media that you
> can access.

In the days of photographs taken with a camera I have physically printed
copies. I also have dozens of CD's containing what I considered 'important'
photographs.
With the advent of the iPhone and Apple's iCloud I make do with nothing more
than Time Machine backups. Try as I might, I cannot envisage Apple failing to
keep my images safe in their iCloud.
If that makes you cringe, please tell me why!

On 2024-03-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 15:47:08 +0000, Alrescha said:
>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> iCloud isn't an alternate storage location the way you are
>>> suggesting.
>>
>> The default setting isn’t the only setting. You can have a device
>> with 128 GB of storage and 2 TB of data in iCloud if that’s what you
>> want.
>
> iCloud definitely *is* a storage option, Apple even says so:
>
> "Store, organize and collaborate on files and folders with iCloud
> Drive. Easily upload, delete or recover files."

You're playing word games. What you store on iCloud Drive is also
synchronized to your devices. What you delete from iCloud Drive is
deleted from your other devices as well. It is, in fact, primarily a
synchronization service.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 21:32:54 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>>>
>>>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos,
>>>> contacts, reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app
>>>> settings, and so on are all synchronized between all of your
>>>> devices. Add one and it appears on all of your devices. Remove one
>>>> from one device, and it gets removed from iCloud and your other
>>>> devices.
>>>
>>> I totally accept that!
>>>
>>> However, I can store any other item I wish.
>>
>> Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted
>> from your other devices.
>
> Perhaps you are not aware of changes made to iCloud.
>
> If you put Documents into iCloud, they are not added to iPhone and/or
> iPad.
>
> See:- https://i.ibb.co/ZfPsSjg/Screenshot-2024-03-07-at-22-19-10.png

No, that's incorrect. iCloud Drive is not a generic cloud file storage
service. Things you add to iCloud Drive are made available to all of the
Apple devices that are logged in with the same Apple ID.

Apple's webpage about it:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/109344>

Go ahead and try it for yourself. 😉

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-03-07 17:39, dgb (David) wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 22:27:39 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-07 04:33, dgb (David) wrote:
>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
>>>> to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
>>>> that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>>>
>>> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a small
>>> monthly fee.
>>
>> Yeesh! I do hope you have separate copies on physical media that you
>> can access.
>
> In the days of photographs taken with a camera I have physically printed
> copies. I also have dozens of CD's containing what I considered 'important'
> photographs.
> With the advent of the iPhone and Apple's iCloud I make do with nothing more
> than Time Machine backups. Try as I might, I cannot envisage Apple failing to
> keep my images safe in their iCloud.
> If that makes you cringe, please tell me why!

You can never rely on a third party to do what is best for you.

iCloud is _not_ a backup service.

Various famous cases of photo sites losing troves of photos due to
various reasons. Not even time for people to get their photos off.

I would rate Apple as very unlikely to lose your data, but the chances
that they do is a non-zero probability no matter how small.

And probably more likely is that you may end up in a situation where you
don't have access to iCloud when when you need it.

Time Machine is not the most reliable backup you can have - it's mighty
convenient after a whoopsie, but it's not infallible (or at least the
external media isn't).

You need to have static offline backups as well. And that is more work
and maintenance. If your photos are precious - treat them as precious.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 7 Mar 2024 at 23:04:03 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 21:32:54 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>>>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos,
>>>>> contacts, reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app
>>>>> settings, and so on are all synchronized between all of your
>>>>> devices. Add one and it appears on all of your devices. Remove one
>>>>> from one device, and it gets removed from iCloud and your other
>>>>> devices.
>>>>
>>>> I totally accept that!
>>>>
>>>> However, I can store any other item I wish.
>>>
>>> Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted
>>> from your other devices.
>>
>> Perhaps you are not aware of changes made to iCloud.
>>
>> If you put Documents into iCloud, they are not added to iPhone and/or
>> iPad.
>>
>> See:- https://i.ibb.co/ZfPsSjg/Screenshot-2024-03-07-at-22-19-10.png
>
> No, that's incorrect. iCloud Drive is not a generic cloud file storage
> service. Things you add to iCloud Drive are made available to all of the
> Apple devices that are logged in with the same Apple ID.

"Made available to" ......... I accept that. But not installed upon.

> Apple's webpage about it:
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/109344>
>
> Go ahead and try it for yourself. 😉

I have! :-)

I can ALSO access my Apple iCloud from my Windows laptop!

On 2024-03-07 14:25, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 20:17, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>>
>>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>>
>>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>>
>>
>> How much?
>>
>> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire
>> folder to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>>
>> ...and it seems to work fine.
>>
>> :-)
>
> And where does the license credential reside?

I don't know... ...but moving the application made no difference to how
it ran.

>
> Can you now connect that external drive to a different Mac and run it
> with the license credentials in effect?

Almost certainly not.

Are you as ignorant about how macOS has worked for the last 20+ years as
you are about proportion?

:-)

On 2024-03-07 14:23, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 18:01, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 21:40:42 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 16:23:38 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>>>>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that
>>>>>>> pop up
>>>>>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is my understanding too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>>>>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>>>>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!  The Studio Display is
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> wonderful - but expensive!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
>>>>> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio
>>>>> Display
>>>>> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
>>>>> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
>>>>> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. That's really good to know. :-)
>>>>
>>>>>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent)
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
>>>>> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible for you to explain, in simple terms, why you need so
>>>> much
>>>> internal storage rather than using the iCloud to be a storage place
>>>> of choice.
>>>> (I'm assuming you have a really good Internet connection.)
>>>
>>> Personally I would never use cloud storage.
>>>
>>> Additional external USB drives are fine for most people, but if
>>> you're doing high-end graphics or video work, then external
>>> Thunderbolt or more internal storage would be better since it's a bit
>>> faster.
>>>
>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>> system Applications folder.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Give an example of one such application.
>
> Shouldn't matter, but I doubt a licensed install of, eg,  Photoshop
> would work very well.
>

Bzzzzzzt.

Wrong!

On 2024-03-06 18:29, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:25, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 18:17, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>>>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How much?
>>>
>>> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire
>>> folder to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>>>
>>> ...and it seems to work fine.
>>
>> But will creative cloud continue to notify you when updates are
>> available? It looks at /Applications to see which software you have
>> installed.
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
>>
>> Same goes for anything obtained from the App Store -- remove them from
>> /Applications and the App Store will no longer notify you that updates
>> are available since it won't seem them as being installed.
>
> Really? Show it.

I'm certain in case of App Store apps unless things have changed since
Monterey (this is the main reason why I stopped storing applications on
external drives). I'm not certain with respect to Adobe CC, but I
strongly suspect it. It's not important enough for me to do an experiment.

Either of these claims could be easily tested if you chose. Pick some
application installed via the app store. Restore an earlier version via
time machine. Copy it from your /Applications folder to another drive
and then delete it from /Applications. Check to see if the app store
will recognize that it needs to be updated. Ditto for Adobe CC.

Applications which check for updates when launched will generally still
update even if located in a nonstandard location. Applications that rely
on a separate application (like App Store.app or Creative Cloud.app) not
so much. They tend to determine the current version based on what's in
the /Applications folder.

And I've run into other applications which experience strange behaviour
when installed outside of /Applications though unfortunately I can't
think of an example since I long ago stopped doing so.

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>
>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>
>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>
>>
>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>
>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>
> I have no obligation to do so.

Good. You're bright enough to know that.

Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or that when someone refuses to do something simple to support a claim...

....it makes others think he has something to hide?

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gBtTjBw9RZdogtopDdJjyYiMzO1-yPAK/view?usp=share_link>

On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>
>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>
>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>
> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

Which you will spend time writing about...

....rather than just post a couple of screenshots.

>
> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>

You are certainly proving that by this reply.

:-)

On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2024 at 23:04:03 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 21:32:54 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>>>>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos,
>>>>>> contacts, reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app
>>>>>> settings, and so on are all synchronized between all of your
>>>>>> devices. Add one and it appears on all of your devices. Remove
>>>>>> one from one device, and it gets removed from iCloud and your
>>>>>> other devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> I totally accept that!
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I can store any other item I wish.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted
>>>> from your other devices.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you are not aware of changes made to iCloud.
>>>
>>> If you put Documents into iCloud, they are not added to iPhone
>>> and/or iPad.
>>>
>>> See:-
>>> https://i.ibb.co/ZfPsSjg/Screenshot-2024-03-07-at-22-19-10.png
>>
>> No, that's incorrect. iCloud Drive is not a generic cloud file
>> storage service. Things you add to iCloud Drive are made available to
>> all of the Apple devices that are logged in with the same Apple ID.
>
> "Made available to" ......... I accept that. But not installed upon.

I'm not sure what you are here arguing about. When I take a photo on one
device, it is transferred to my other devices. When I add a contact on
one device, it is transferred to my other devices. When I add or change
a calendar event, the same thing happens on my other devices. iCloud is
primarily a synchronization service, but it does other things as well.
You seem to want to argue that because iCloud Drive doesn't always
automatically download changes to each device that somehow means it's
just like any other cloud storage service, but that's simply not the
case. Most data in iCloud is synchronized to all of your devices, and if
you delete something from iCloud Drive it gets deleted everywhere else.
It is *not* a generic cloud storage service.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> But you can't upload 500 GB of photos to iCloud and not have them on any
> of your devices because iCloud isn't an alternate generic cloud storage
> solution you can use in that manner.

Of course you can. You dump those files into iCloud and let iOS/macOS
evict them from local storage over time (or you can do this yourself).
They don’t have to take up space anywhere else.

On 7 Mar 2024 at 23:07:39 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07 17:39, dgb (David) wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 22:27:39 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-07 04:33, dgb (David) wrote:
>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 01:03:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I don't store my entire photo library in iCloud. Doing so would cause me
>>>>> to pay a monthly or yearly subscription, and I'm not interested in doing
>>>>> that when I have lots of storage right on my Mac.
>>>>
>>>> I do store all of my photo library on iCloud and I'm happy to pay a small
>>>> monthly fee.
>>>
>>> Yeesh! I do hope you have separate copies on physical media that you
>>> can access.
>>
>> In the days of photographs taken with a camera I have physically printed
>> copies. I also have dozens of CD's containing what I considered 'important'
>> photographs.
>> With the advent of the iPhone and Apple's iCloud I make do with nothing more
>> than Time Machine backups. Try as I might, I cannot envisage Apple failing to
>> keep my images safe in their iCloud.
>> If that makes you cringe, please tell me why!
>
> You can never rely on a third party to do what is best for you.

Indeed! I understand where you are coming from!

> iCloud is _not_ a backup service.

I understand that. Thanks.

> Various famous cases of photo sites losing troves of photos due to
> various reasons. Not even time for people to get their photos off.

I was taught a saluatory lesson many years ago when I had a hard drive failure
..... and no back-up!

> I would rate Apple as very unlikely to lose your data, but the chances
> that they do is a non-zero probability no matter how small.

OK - I'll accept that!

> And probably more likely is that you may end up in a situation where you
> don't have access to iCloud when when you need it.

I'd be lost without my Internet connection! ;-)

> Time Machine is not the most reliable backup you can have - it's mighty
> convenient after a whoopsie, but it's not infallible (or at least the
> external media isn't).

Indeed. I have had my WD My Book back-up drive fail on me!

> You need to have static offline backups as well. And that is more work
> and maintenance. If your photos are precious - treat them as precious.

Yes indeed. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

--
David

On 8 Mar 2024 at 01:38:22 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 23:04:03 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 21:32:54 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 7 Mar 2024 at 16:42:05 GMT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-07, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe iCloud can and does store material without necessarily
>>>>>>>> sending it to other Apple devices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not its primary purpose though. As exampled, photos,
>>>>>>> contacts, reminders, calendars, iCloud Drive documents, app
>>>>>>> settings, and so on are all synchronized between all of your
>>>>>>> devices. Add one and it appears on all of your devices. Remove
>>>>>>> one from one device, and it gets removed from iCloud and your
>>>>>>> other devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I totally accept that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I can store any other item I wish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but the default behavior is if you delete it, it gets deleted
>>>>> from your other devices.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you are not aware of changes made to iCloud.
>>>>
>>>> If you put Documents into iCloud, they are not added to iPhone
>>>> and/or iPad.
>>>>
>>>> See:-
>>>> https://i.ibb.co/ZfPsSjg/Screenshot-2024-03-07-at-22-19-10.png
>>>
>>> No, that's incorrect. iCloud Drive is not a generic cloud file
>>> storage service. Things you add to iCloud Drive are made available to
>>> all of the Apple devices that are logged in with the same Apple ID.
>>
>> "Made available to" ......... I accept that. But not installed upon.
>
> I'm not sure what you are here arguing about. When I take a photo on one
> device, it is transferred to my other devices. When I add a contact on
> one device, it is transferred to my other devices. When I add or change
> a calendar event, the same thing happens on my other devices. iCloud is
> primarily a synchronization service, but it does other things as well.

We are in agreement!

> You seem to want to argue that because iCloud Drive doesn't always
> automatically download changes to each device that somehow means it's
> just like any other cloud storage service, but that's simply not the
> case. Most data in iCloud is synchronized to all of your devices, and if
> you delete something from iCloud Drive it gets deleted everywhere else.

I don't want to argue at all!

> It is *not* a generic cloud storage service.

There is VERY little difference - but the iCloud is smarter than most! ;-)

On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>
>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>
>> I have no obligation to do so.
>
> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>
>
> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
> on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac? Then you can prove me wrong.

I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
I have the numbers in front of me. And that's just the facts.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-07 20:20, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:25, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 20:17, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>>>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How much?
>>>
>>> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire
>>> folder to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>>>
>>> ...and it seems to work fine.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> And where does the license credential reside?
>
> I don't know... ...but moving the application made no difference to how
> it ran.
>
>>
>> Can you now connect that external drive to a different Mac and run it
>> with the license credentials in effect?
>
> Almost certainly not.
>
> Are you as ignorant about how macOS has worked for the last 20+ years as
> you are about proportion?

So you don't know where the license credential resides, but my question
is ignorant?

Man, you're a dick. I guess that's a good thing for you.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-07 20:37, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same
>>>>>>>> load of
>>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>>>>> yours on
>>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>>
>>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>>
>>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>>
>> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.
>
> Which you will spend time writing about...
>
> ...rather than just post a couple of screenshots.
>
>>
>> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>>
>
> You are certainly proving that by this reply.

Yes, thanks for confirming you're not important. Unexpected humility
from you.

Now, do you own an Apple Si Mac or not?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-08 13:41, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:20, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:25, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 20:17, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:04, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:59, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More internal drive space can also be needed if you run lots of apps
>>>>>>> since some do not like to be stored / run outside of the standard
>>>>>>> system Applications folder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give an example of one such application.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be willing to bet Adobe's Creative Cloud apps don't like being
>>>>> anywhere but their designated place in /Applications.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How much?
>>>>
>>>> To be fair, I just moved Adobe Illustrator 2023 (and it's entire
>>>> folder to be sure) from Applications to my Desktop folder...
>>>>
>>>> ...and it seems to work fine.
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> And where does the license credential reside?
>>
>> I don't know... ...but moving the application made no difference to
>> how it ran.
>>
>>>
>>> Can you now connect that external drive to a different Mac and run it
>>> with the license credentials in effect?
>>
>> Almost certainly not.
>>
>> Are you as ignorant about how macOS has worked for the last 20+ years
>> as you are about proportion?
>
> So you don't know where the license credential resides, but my question
> is ignorant?

I didn't say I don't know. I most certainly do.

What's clear is that YOU have no clue about it.

On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>
>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>
>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>
>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>
>>
>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>
> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.

>
> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>
> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
>  I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.

If you actually had the numbers in front of you...

....and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...

....it would be trivial to prove your claims.

But you don't.