Hi

I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
"flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
paganini.org server.
Path: "
paganini.bofh.team!miakibot!byfrom!spewcancel!cyberspam!not-for-mail "
From: antiflood antiflood@miakinen.net
X-Cancelled-by: antiflood <antiflood@miakinen.net>

A pseudo-vote was held on the fr hierarchy but no *consensus* was
reached for these cancellations, which can therefore be described
as abusive.

I know that most servers already refuse cancellations of this type
(too many abuses have been made in the past) and now only accept
cancellations from authenticated sources.

But I wanted to bring this information to your attention in case
your server is not currently protected from these cancel.

Sincerely,
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

On 27/12/2023 22:44, llp wrote:
> Hi
>
> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
[cut]
>
> Sincerely,
> Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Nope, you just don't like the outcome

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<umh49a%24jtn%241%40cabale.usenet-fr.net>

If it were truly abusive as you have been claiming for months now, I
would never have offered space for a similar service. But since Olivier
has much more experience in the hierarchy than you, and above all much
more support, he also has my almost unconditional support. As I already
told you in the past, try to improve your service because every day
Usenet needs better services and don't worry about what happens outside
your server. I remind you that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.

Sincerely

--
Ivo Gandolfo

Après mûre réflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a écrit :
> On 27/12/2023 22:44, llp wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
>> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
> [cut]
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>
> Nope, you just don't like the outcome

I'm not the only one who doesn't like people who want to be little
dictator and impose their vision of "flood" through cancels.

> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<umh49a%24jtn%241%40cabale.usenet-fr.net>

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<5uoooi9cb92pg9626f9l37hr8lbpht97s7@news.usenet.ovh>

> If it were truly abusive as you have been claiming for months now, I would
> never have offered space for a similar service. But since Olivier has much
> more experience in the hierarchy than you, and above all much more support,
> he also has my almost unconditional support.

I understand that you support these abusive cancellations.

> As I already told you in the past, try to improve your service
> because every day Usenet needs better services and don't worry
> about what happens outside your server. I remind you
> that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.

I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
flood cancels on other servers.

Sincerely.

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:35:10 +0100
llp <<contact@usenet.ovh> > wrote:

> Après mûre réflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a écrit :
> > On 27/12/2023 22:44, llp wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
> >> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from
> >> the
> > [cut]
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
> >
> > Nope, you just don't like the outcome
>
> I'm not the only one who doesn't like people who want to be little
> dictator and impose their vision of "flood" through cancels.
>
> > http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<umh49a%24jtn%241%40cabale.usenet-fr.net>
> >
>
> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<5uoooi9cb92pg9626f9l37hr8lbpht97s7@news.usenet.ovh>
>
> > If it were truly abusive as you have been claiming for months now,
> > I would never have offered space for a similar service. But since
> > Olivier has much more experience in the hierarchy than you, and
> > above all much more support, he also has my almost unconditional
> > support.
>
> I understand that you support these abusive cancellations.
>
> > As I already told you in the past, try to improve your service
> > because every day Usenet needs better services and don't worry
> > about what happens outside your server. I remind you
> > that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.
>
> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
> flood cancels on other servers.
>
> Sincerely.
>
> --
> Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Can you share the message-id of some suspected messages that have been
canceled? I can check my server to see if the cancel got through. It
shouldn't but you never know.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Nigel Reed vient de nous annoncer :
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:35:10 +0100
> llp <<contact@usenet.ovh> > wrote:
>
>> Après mûre réflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a écrit :
>>> On 27/12/2023 22:44, llp wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
>>>> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from
>>>> the
>>> [cut]
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>>>
>>> Nope, you just don't like the outcome
>>
>> I'm not the only one who doesn't like people who want to be little
>> dictator and impose their vision of "flood" through cancels.
>>
>>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<umh49a%24jtn%241%40cabale.usenet-fr.net>
>>>
>>
>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<5uoooi9cb92pg9626f9l37hr8lbpht97s7@news.usenet.ovh>
>>
>>> If it were truly abusive as you have been claiming for months now,
>>> I would never have offered space for a similar service. But since
>>> Olivier has much more experience in the hierarchy than you, and
>>> above all much more support, he also has my almost unconditional
>>> support.
>>
>> I understand that you support these abusive cancellations.
>>
>>> As I already told you in the past, try to improve your service
>>> because every day Usenet needs better services and don't worry
>>> about what happens outside your server. I remind you
>>> that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.
>>
>> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
>> flood cancels on other servers.
>>
>> Sincerely.
>>
>> --
>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>
> Can you share the message-id of some suspected messages that have been
> canceled? I can check my server to see if the cancel got through. It
> shouldn't but you never know.

Two examples:
<Cancel.mn.bae27e7cdd09dafc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.b53cdf39-92eb-4265-8867-ff2e286f22a9n@googlegroups.com>

On 27/12/2023 23:35, llp wrote:
>
> I'm not the only one who doesn't like people who want to be little
> dictator and impose their vision of "flood" through cancels.

And who knows why the only complaints I see come from users who have
made the abuse of Usenet their watchword...

> I understand that you support these abusive cancellations.

I can't stand any cancel or nocem. But in some cases they are a
necessary evil.

> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
> flood cancels on other servers.
>

And I don't see any good in offering accounts to users who have abused
in the past and continue to do so (after having been kicked out of other
servers for their abuse on other's hyerarchies for example it.*, and
having joined several blacklists such as Aioe which issued cancel and
nocem for aforementioned people and other guy's setup cleanfeed or other
method to filter this shit), but I didn't complain to you about it. On
your server you are free to do whatever you want, but don't expect that
shit to pass (or remain) on my server, there is already too much shit on
usenet (and thank goodness that GG is closing) to add one other.

P.S. and if you're wondering, the aforementioned users have also tried
to use my server, taking advantage of the policy that I'm an
"open-server", too bad my filter works very well, and the little shit
that manages to escape them is reported to me and I refine the filter so
that it no longer passes. Apparently this put them off and they no
longer use it.
The impression I get is that you want things done the way you want,
period. What I'm trying to make you understand is that "your" vision of
the world is not exactly what others see. It's clear that you don't like
certain discussions, especially before you even opened a news server,
but as has been pointed out to you several times, having become a
newsadmin doesn't mean that everyone has to listen to you or do exactly
what you want.

Sincerely

--
Ivo Gandolfo

Ivo Gandolfo a exprimé avec précision :
> On 27/12/2023 23:35, llp wrote:

>> I understand that you support these abusive cancellations.
>
> I can't stand any cancel or nocem. But in some cases they
> are a necessary evil.

Not here.

>> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
>> flood cancels on other servers.
>>
>
> (...) On your server you are free to do whatever you want,
> but don't expect that shit to pass (or remain) on my server,
> there is already too much shit on usenet (and thank
> goodness that GG is closing) to add one other.

You can do what you like on your server, but don't insist on imposing
your cancels and your vision of flooding in this way.
I talk about it all the more freely as I publish nocems for flood.
But a Nocem is never "imposed". Without the active involvement of a
server administrator, a nocem does nothing.
You should think about it and only publish nocems.
I think you've already asked Olivier to do this, but he doesn't know
how to do it and you continue to produce these abusive cancels.

> P.S. and if you're wondering, the aforementioned users have also tried to use
> my server, taking advantage of the policy that I'm an "open-server", too bad
> my filter works very well, and the little shit that manages to escape them is
> reported to me and I refine the filter so that it no longer passes.
> Apparently this put them off and they no longer use it.

But Olivier use your serveur to do abusive cancel.

> The impression I get is that you want things done the way you want, period.
> What I'm trying to make you understand is that "your" vision of the world is
> not exactly what others see. It's clear that you don't like certain
> discussions, especially before you even opened a news server, but as has been
> pointed out to you several times, having become a newsadmin doesn't mean that
> everyone has to listen to you or do exactly what you want.

Not every server administrator has the same idea of what flood is.

Wanting to impose *your* vision of things, as is currently the case
with these unauthenticated cancels coming from your server, doesn't
seem to be a good thing for usenet.
Of course, I could be wrong, but at least I don't impose anything
of the sort on other server administrators.

Sincerely

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 22:44:33 +0100, llp wrote:

> Hi
>
> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
> paganini.org server.
> Path: "
> paganini.bofh.team!miakibot!byfrom!spewcancel!cyberspam!not-for-mail "
> From: antiflood antiflood@miakinen.net X-Cancelled-by: antiflood
> <antiflood@miakinen.net>
>
> A pseudo-vote was held on the fr hierarchy but no *consensus* was
> reached for these cancellations, which can therefore be described as
> abusive.
>
> I know that most servers already refuse cancellations of this type (too
> many abuses have been made in the past) and now only accept
> cancellations from authenticated sources.
>
> But I wanted to bring this information to your attention in case your
> server is not currently protected from these cancel.
>
> Sincerely,
> Admin of news.usenet.ovh

This is why we, and most other "ISP" based news servers, have not honored
cancels or superceeds since the 1990's.

They were totally abused then, and here we are 30 years later, not much
has changed.

Ivo Gandolfo <usenet@bofh.team> wrote:

>>. . .

>I can't stand any cancel or nocem. But in some cases they are a
>necessary evil.

Oh for heaven's sake. Spam countermeasures are not "necessary evils".
They are critical to presenting Usenet to users in a way that's
readable. Cancels, in and of themselves, shouldn't be issued as spam
countermeasures. Because of past use of cancels as network abuse, no one
at all should accept third-party cancels, not even as spam
countermeasures.

If you issue a cancel to counter an article injected through your server
as a spam countermeasure or to counter some other form of abuse
committed through your server, you're the second party and that cancel
should be honored. Similarly, the user himself, as first party, issuing
a cancel against his own article should be honored (if in a reasonable
amount of times, say minutes later, not years later).

I know people have explained to me in the past when this has come up why
fr.* uses cancels as spam countermeasures, but it's never made any sense
to me.

NoCeMs do not have the same history of abuse that cancels do, and
because they aren't control messages, cannot be part of a denial of
service attack.

I'm sure I said all of this last time, and probably the time before
that, so I'm being repetitious.

What is this I've intruded into, a decades-old flame war?

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:51:15 +0100, llp <contact@usenet.ovh>> wrote:
>Nigel Reed vient de nous annoncer :
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:35:10 +0100 llp <<contact@usenet.ovh> > wrote:
>>> Apres mure reflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a ecrit :
snip
>>>> As I already told you in the past, try to improve your service
>>>> because every day Usenet needs better services and don't worry
>>>> about what happens outside your server. I remind you
>>>> that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.
>>>
>>> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
>>> flood cancels on other servers.
>>> Sincerely.
>>> --
>>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>>
>> Can you share the message-id of some suspected messages that have been
>> canceled? I can check my server to see if the cancel got through. It
>> shouldn't but you never know.
>
>Two examples:
><Cancel.mn.bae27e7cdd09dafc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
><Cancel.b53cdf39-92eb-4265-8867-ff2e286f22a9n@googlegroups.com>

56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?

D <J@M> writes:

[...]

> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?

You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.

When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
we cannot let them destroy the commune.

We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
them and nothing else.

We should also formally ask them for a copy of the archive they have,
possibly suing them if they deny. I think the people likely have /a/
right in having a copy of that. They might not have anything against
providing the world with a copy of the data, but they're likely
Newtonian: will not move unless an external force is applied.

In article <09e348f1f0604b633193ad12dcdd7594@dizum.com>, D <J@M> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:51:15 +0100, llp <contact@usenet.ovh>> wrote:
>>Nigel Reed vient de nous annoncer :
>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:35:10 +0100 llp <<contact@usenet.ovh> > wrote:
>>>> Apres mure reflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a ecrit :
>snip
>>>>> As I already told you in the past, try to improve your service
>>>>> because every day Usenet needs better services and don't worry
>>>>> about what happens outside your server. I remind you
>>>>> that Usenet itself was born as democratic anarchy.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see anything democratic in trying to impose non-consensual
>>>> flood cancels on other servers.
>>>> Sincerely.
>>>> --
>>>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>>>
>>> Can you share the message-id of some suspected messages that have been
>>> canceled? I can check my server to see if the cancel got through. It
>>> shouldn't but you never know.
>>
>>Two examples:
>><Cancel.mn.bae27e7cdd09dafc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
>><Cancel.b53cdf39-92eb-4265-8867-ff2e286f22a9n@googlegroups.com>
>
>56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>

What armageddon?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <87edf7aw96.fsf_-_@yaxenu.org>,
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>D <J@M> writes:
>
>[...]
>
>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>
>You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>
>When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>
>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>them and nothing else.

We still should!!

>
>We should also formally ask them for a copy of the archive they have,
>possibly suing them if they deny. I think the people likely have /a/
>right in having a copy of that. They might not have anything against
>providing the world with a copy of the data, but they're likely
>Newtonian: will not move unless an external force is applied.

Interesting , Maam!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

Le 27/12/2023 à 22:44, llp a écrit :

> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
> paganini.org server.

Note, the only reason why llp is pissed is because flood was coming out of
his server because he let an abuser use it and refused to delete his
account.

There is a part of the log so everyone can judge.

From: antiflood <antiflood@miakinen.net>
Path:
...!pasdenom.info!paganini.bofh.team!miakibot!byfrom!spewcancel!cyberspam!not-for-mail
<Cancel.mn.92c37e7cfc0ce334.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.92c37e7cfc0ce334.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.92c57e7c24084b92.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.92c57e7c24084b92.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.92c87e7c3aeece3d.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.92c87e7c3aeece3d.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.92cb7e7c20736447.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.92cb7e7c20736447.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.92d67e7c9869e404.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.92d67e7c9869e404.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.23057e7ced5a1de0.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.23057e7ced5a1de0.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.62da7e7c0be80e98.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.62da7e7c0be80e98.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.6c2c7e7c0703039a.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.6c2c7e7c0703039a.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.dada7e7beb190418.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.dada7e7beb190418.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.eab07e7b88ba9e80.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.eab07e7b88ba9e80.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.62897e7cc63dcb7b.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.62897e7cc63dcb7b.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.72717e7c3ce9e820.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.72717e7c3ce9e820.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.82747e7c7b4673cc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.82747e7c7b4673cc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.dae57e7bd909429e.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.dae57e7bd909429e.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.dae77e7bb23c479d.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.dae77e7bb23c479d.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.5af87e7c309013e5.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.5af87e7c309013e5.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.63fa7e7c5bda40e1.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.63fa7e7c5bda40e1.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.da847e7c373928f4.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.da847e7c373928f4.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.8af07e7c01431fb7.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.8af07e7c01431fb7.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.a26d7e7cb3f68302.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.a26d7e7cb3f68302.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.cc587e7c18726c5a.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
Message-id: <mn.cc587e7c18726c5a.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
<Cancel.mn.dc427e7b24332254.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.dc427e7b24332254.145333@live.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.e2627e7b59f1d2b5.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.e2627e7b59f1d2b5.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.1abd7e7c8d9b6f1c.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.1abd7e7c8d9b6f1c.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.2a997e7c2dbfe513.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.2a997e7c2dbfe513.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.2aa67e7c70af645d.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
Message-id: <mn.2aa67e7c70af645d.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
<Cancel.mn.2aa07e7c25747cc0.145333@livet.msn.com.invalid>
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Eric M avait prétendu :
> Le 27/12/2023 à 22:44, llp a écrit :
>
>> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations for
>> "flood" and concerning the "fr" hierarchy are being issued from the
>> paganini.org server.
>
> Note, the only reason why llp is pissed is because flood was coming out of
> his server because he let an abuser use it and refused to delete his account.

I remove proven abuse, not vendetta against other users.

But Eric M. is the most famous troll in the French heiarchy !
Are you planning to troll here too?
Is your stalker pack coming too?

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Le 28/12/2023 à 10:48, llp a écrit :

> I remove proven abuse, not vendetta against other users.

A person who copies posts from one forum to another with followup to a
third one without adding anything but sometimes an insult (I'm not even
sure of that, he's hard to understand) is an abuser, wether you like it or
not, even if it's your friend.
> But Eric M. is the most famous troll in the French heiarchy !
> Are you planning to troll here too?
> Is your stalker pack coming too?

Calm down, here your anonymous friends won't came to insult your
opponents.

Le 28/12/2023 à 10:48, llp a écrit :

> I remove proven abuse, not vendetta against other users.

A person who copies posts from one forum to another with followup to a
third one without adding anything but sometimes an insult (I'm not even
sure of that, he's hard to understand) is an abuser, wether you like it or
not, even if it's your friend.
> But Eric M. is the most famous troll in the French heiarchy !
> Are you planning to troll here too?
> Is your stalker pack coming too?

Calm down, here your anonymous friends won't come to insult your
opponents.

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:36:37 -0300, Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>D <J@M> writes:
>[...]
>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>
>You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>them and nothing else.
>We should also formally ask them for a copy of the archive they have,
>possibly suing them if they deny. I think the people likely have /a/
>right in having a copy of that. They might not have anything against
>providing the world with a copy of the data, but they're likely
>Newtonian: will not move unless an external force is applied.

seems likely that ~55 days from now, googlegroups will sever its ties
to usenet servers, and if that happens might other non-google servers
pick up the slack to help fill the predictable spam void in gg's wake?
but as for the immense gg archive, there are probably other resources
available to essentially rebuild it from scratch, thus letting google
off the hook: is a comprehensive usenet archive really that important?
as many have pointed out, news articles have always been ephemeral by
nature, not really intended for permanent reference beyond those that
saved them; in a perfect usenet world, there would be no crossposting
and no commercial advertising, so people can continue being imperfect;
newton, optics, photons, magnets, cubits, senet, etc., that's fun too

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 05:01:13 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <09e348f1f0604b633193ad12dcdd7594@dizum.com>, D <J@M> wrote:
>>On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:51:15 +0100, llp <contact@usenet.ovh>> wrote:
>>>Nigel Reed vient de nous annoncer :
>>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:35:10 +0100 llp <<contact@usenet.ovh> > wrote:
>>>>> Apres mure reflexion, Ivo Gandolfo a ecrit :
snip
>>>> Can you share the message-id of some suspected messages that have been
>>>> canceled? I can check my server to see if the cancel got through. It
>>>> shouldn't but you never know.
>>>Two examples:
>>><Cancel.mn.bae27e7cdd09dafc.145333@zorro.eu.invalide>
>>><Cancel.b53cdf39-92eb-4265-8867-ff2e286f22a9n@googlegroups.com>
>>
>>56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>>disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>>put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>>taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>>blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>
>What armageddon?

between those returning and leaving, but what that could mean in terms
of google's disconnection from usenet, something like a generation gap

In article <96307c7cc2497e9ba0cdd8b643a6e1af@dizum.com>, D <J@M> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:36:37 -0300, Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>>D <J@M> writes:
>>[...]
>>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>>
>>You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>>another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>>only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>>When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>>were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>>that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>>for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>>company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>>them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>>them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>>we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>>them and nothing else.
>>We should also formally ask them for a copy of the archive they have,
>>possibly suing them if they deny. I think the people likely have /a/
>>right in having a copy of that. They might not have anything against
>>providing the world with a copy of the data, but they're likely
>>Newtonian: will not move unless an external force is applied.
>
>seems likely that ~55 days from now, googlegroups will sever its ties
>to usenet servers, and if that happens might other non-google servers
>pick up the slack to help fill the predictable spam void in gg's wake?
>but as for the immense gg archive, there are probably other resources
>available to essentially rebuild it from scratch, thus letting google
>off the hook: is a comprehensive usenet archive really that important?
>as many have pointed out, news articles have always been ephemeral by
>nature, not really intended for permanent reference beyond those that
>saved them; in a perfect usenet world, there would be no crossposting
>and no commercial advertising, so people can continue being imperfect;
>newton, optics, photons, magnets, cubits, senet, etc., that's fun too
>

Google Groups and Gmail seems to be a spamtroll magnet!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) writes:

> In article <87edf7aw96.fsf_-_@yaxenu.org>,
> Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>>D <J@M> writes:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>>
>>You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>>another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>>only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>>
>>When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>>were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>>that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>>for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>>company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>>them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>>them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>>we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>>
>>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>>them and nothing else.
>
> We still should!!

Not any longer --- they promised to disappear in a reasonable time,
rendering moot the litigation.

D <J@M> writes:

[...]

>>We should also formally ask them for a copy of the archive they have,
>>possibly suing them if they deny. I think the people likely have /a/
>>right in having a copy of that. They might not have anything against
>>providing the world with a copy of the data, but they're likely
>>Newtonian: will not move unless an external force is applied.
>
> seems likely that ~55 days from now, googlegroups will sever its ties
> to usenet servers, and if that happens might other non-google servers
> pick up the slack to help fill the predictable spam void in gg's wake?
> but as for the immense gg archive, there are probably other resources
> available to essentially rebuild it from scratch, thus letting google
> off the hook: is a comprehensive usenet archive really that important?

That's an important question. Should we archive everything? Let's ask
a similar one. Should scientific papers be archived? People talk about
them and reference becomes important. It's not the easiest thing to
point to scientific papers because archives are usually paid. USENET
archives are usually paid too, where price means overcoming some
difficulty. For instance, can you read the exact USENET post of the GNU
manifesto published in the eighties by Richard Stallman? We can define
that the price of reading it is the price of finding it.

Surely, most USENET posts are irrelevant. They could be deleted for
good. However, it's too hard to decide. Most scientific papers are
irrelevant. They could be deleted for good. But it's too hard to
decide.

Let's ask the question --- can we archive everything? Is that too
expensive? If if it's not too expensive, then it seems to pay off in
instances such as Daniel J. Bernstein's description of the self-pipe
trick at

https://cr.yp.to/docs/selfpipe.html,

where its history is traced through a sequence of USENET posts. We
could now see how expensive it is to find such posts by solving the
following exercises. (I have no idea how I would begin.)

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Exercise. Post a copy of Daniel J. Bernstein's description of the
self-pipe trick on 1991.06.16 in comp.unix.questions.

Exercise. Post a copy of all the articles mentioned in the document
https://cr.yp.to/docs/selfpipe.html.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

In article <87y1de9x73.fsf@yaxenu.org>, Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) writes:
>
>> In article <87edf7aw96.fsf_-_@yaxenu.org>,
>> Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>>>D <J@M> writes:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>>>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>>>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>>>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>>>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>>>
>>>You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>>>another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>>>only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>>>
>>>When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>>>were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>>>that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>>>for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>>>company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>>>them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>>>them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>>>we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>>>
>>>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>>>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>>>them and nothing else.
>>
>> We still should!!
>
>Not any longer --- they promised to disappear in a reasonable time,
>rendering moot the litigation.

But the damage is trackable.
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doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) writes:

[...]

>>>>We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>>>>USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>>>>them and nothing else.
>>>
>>> We still should!!
>>
>>Not any longer --- they promised to disappear in a reasonable time,
>>rendering moot the litigation.
>
> But the damage is trackable.

As long as a court receives your petition, you can litigate. You'll
need to show you legally represent ``/the/ USENET''. (Or what are the
parties in the litigation?)

Julieta Shem wrote:
> doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) writes:
>
>> In article <87edf7aw96.fsf_-_@yaxenu.org>,
>> Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>>> D <J@M> writes:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> 56 days until google cuts the cho... err..cord, will be decommissioned,
>>>> disabled, disconnected, deactivated, dismantled, shut down, turned off,
>>>> put aside, unplugged, inoperative, unavailable, mothballed, disallowed,
>>>> taken down, phased out, gone kaput, consigned to the annals of history,
>>>> blocked, nixed, ixnayed, etcetera . . . countdown to usenet armageddon?
>>>
>>> You know what would be funny? If GG doesn't unplug and goes quiet for
>>> another few years and everything remains as it is. We need to celebrate
>>> only after they part. Yes, I'm surely hoping they go.
>>>
>>> When they joined, bought DejaNews and everything, I was happy that they
>>> were doing a good job. I was too young then, though. I didn't know
>>> that years go by and companies go rotten. Had the employees responsible
>>> for them joining had any wisdom, they wouldn't have done the work. If a
>>> company asks for my help to join the USENET today, I should only help
>>> them if I also have the power to unplug them if I ever untie myself from
>>> them. We let people destroy their lives because it's their lives, but
>>> we cannot let them destroy the commune.
>>>
>>> We should have sued Google Inc. over the destruction they caused on the
>>> USENET for all these years. We should ask the courts to just unplug
>>> them and nothing else.
>>
>> We still should!!
>
> Not any longer --- they promised to disappear in a reasonable time,
> rendering moot the litigation.
>

They have bigger lawyers.