candycanearter07 a formulé ce lundi :
> Ray Banana <rayban@raybanana.net> wrote at 20:55 this Monday (GMT):
>> Thus spake candycanearter07
>> <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
>>
>>> Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote at 17:40 this Monday (GMT):
>>>> Le 04/03/2024 à 17:55, candycanearter07 a écrit :
>>>>>> From: candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
>>>>>> From: candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
>>>>> ? Why am I being flagged?
>>>> I don't know, but your invalid mail must end with ".invalid".
>>> It's a real domain that Spalls Surgeston let me use. I don't think
>>> they ever check the email tho.
>>
>> PMFJI, I think you made a mistake with your mail address. You got
>> permission to use nomail.afraid.org and not a non-existent subdomain of
>> it. The domain nomail.afraid does not exist, just like the top level
>> domain .afraid,
>>
>> Does yamo issue NoCeMs for non-existent domain names in the from address?
>
> Oh maybe..

Or maybe not.
You're not the only contributor to this group to have been unwittingly
targeted by yamo nocems.

We'll probably never know as yamo said:
"Nono, will not look at news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ..."

nota: "nono" is the name of his bot.

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 04/03/2024 à 19:29, Ray Banana a écrit :
>
> > Of course you don't know. Only the issuer of the NoCeMs can answer this
> > question reliably. Why doesn't yamo' speak for himself? Ignoring reports
> > about suspected false positives in NoCeM messages can seriously damage
> > his reputation.
>
> I repeat myself one last time, you are not a judge, yamo' can broadcast
> any NoCems he wants, if you have a problem with them don't use them. EOT,
> there is really nothing to add.

Again, you defend the indefensible.

Face it, yamo' posts NoCems for perfectly legit articles, which
amounts to censorship. But he *claims* he only addresses 'spam' ("99.99%
spam" <https://pasdenom.info/nocem.en.html>).

He apparently refuses to stand behind what he's doing, while *he*
(correctly) directs "Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet" (see for
example <uro1jq$4mk$1@rasp.pasdenom.info>).

So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.

Saying that Ray is free to not use yamo's NoCems is a copout to deflect
from the real issue.

Le 05/03/2024 à 14:26, Frank Slootweg a écrit :

> So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.

No, it's bullying. Nobody *has* to reply to you, you are not a judge, you
are not an authority, you are using Individual.net, so you are not even
concerned. If you want usenet to close, go on like that.

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 05/03/2024 à 14:26, Frank Slootweg a écrit :
>
> > So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.
>
> No, it's bullying. Nobody *has* to reply to you, you are not a judge, you
> are not an authority, you are using Individual.net, so you are not even
> concerned.

Ray, others and I have legitimate questions/concerns on what yamo' is
doing. If anyone is bullying, it's you, because you are telling us what
we can and can not discuss in this group.

And please drop the "judge" nonsense and look in the mirror when you
don't.

As to authority: Pot, kettle, ... (Actually, I am more an 'authority'
than you are, but it doesn't matter. "Users are people too!")

And who says using News.Individual.Net means that it does not concern
me? Do you know which NoCems are (not) processed by NIN?

> If you want usenet to close, go on like that.

You're supposed to give a beverage alert before things like that.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>04/03/2024 19:29, Ray Banana:

>>>Of course you don't know. Only the issuer of the NoCeMs can answer this
>>>question reliably. Why doesn't yamo' speak for himself? Ignoring reports
>>>about suspected false positives in NoCeM messages can seriously damage
>>>his reputation.

>>I repeat myself one last time, you are not a judge, yamo' can broadcast
>>any NoCems he wants, if you have a problem with them don't use them. EOT,
>>there is really nothing to add.

> Again, you defend the indefensible.

He cannot be forced to express an opinion about yamo's reputation if he
doesn't care to.

> Face it, yamo' posts NoCems for perfectly legit articles, which
>amounts to censorship. But he *claims* he only addresses 'spam' ("99.99%
>spam" <https://pasdenom.info/nocem.en.html>).

Please don't go over-the-top. I'm affected by this, same as you and
others posting in NANAU. A censor acts on behalf of the state. Yamo' is
not acting on anyone's behalf but his own. Not all suppression of speech
and publication is censorship as an act of a public official.

> He apparently refuses to stand behind what he's doing, while *he*
>(correctly) directs "Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet" (see for
>example <uro1jq$4mk$1@rasp.pasdenom.info>).

> So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.

> Saying that Ray is free to not use yamo's NoCems is a copout to deflect
>from the real issue.

I've said the same thing, that the reputation of the issuer of cancels
or NoCeMs as abuse countermeasures is what's important. Anybody can
issue these.

yamo' controls his own reputation.

Le 05/03/2024 à 17:25, Frank Slootweg a écrit :

> Ray, others and I have legitimate questions/concerns on what yamo' is
> doing.

No, they are not, and it's not Ray, it's LLP who is mad because yamo'
depeered him after Marc Schaefer left usenet because of the same bullying.

So, do you want to kill usenet :

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>05/03/2024 14:26, Frank Slootweg:

>>So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.

>No, it's bullying. Nobody *has* to reply to you, you are not a judge, you
>are not an authority, you are using Individual.net, so you are not even
>concerned. If you want usenet to close, go on like that.

I'll make the same request of you that I made of Frank Slootweg: Don't
go over the top. You are not obligated to express an opinion about
yamo's reputation. That's your right. But commenting about whether yamo'
is maintaining a good reputation is not bullying.

There is actual judgment of yamo's reputation taking place by those who
run Usenet: the News administrators. If yamo' cannot maintain his
reputation with them, they won't accept his NoCeMs.

The rest of us are commenting without being News administrators
ourselves. We get to do that. It's unmoderated Usenet.

You post in NANAU. Weren't NoCeMs issued against your articles too?

Le 05/03/2024 à 17:58, "Adam H. Kerman" a écrit :

> I'll make the same request of you that I made of Frank Slootweg: Don't
> go over the top. You are not obligated to express an opinion about
> yamo's reputation. That's your right. But commenting about whether yamo'
> is maintaining a good reputation is not bullying.

I know who launched this stupid discussion.
> There is actual judgment of yamo's reputation taking place by those who
> run Usenet: the News administrators. If yamo' cannot maintain his
> reputation with them, they won't accept his NoCeMs.

Well, ok, some of them won't, the same that already don't accept them,
what's the point ?
> The rest of us are commenting without being News administrators
> ourselves. We get to do that. It's unmoderated Usenet.

Being a newsmaster doesn't make you a god, it just proves you have time to
lose :)
> You post in NANAU. Weren't NoCeMs issued against your articles too?

I don't think so, LLP canceled some of my posts for no reason but he
denies it.

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> So, do you want to kill usenet :
>
> [ ] Yes
> [ ] No
>

Why beat about the bush, let's strip it down to the bare essentials, eh?
Answers on a postcard please.

It is becoming very difficult to take you seriously, Eric M.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 05/03/2024 à 17:25, Frank Slootweg a écrit :
>
> > Ray, others and I have legitimate questions/concerns on what yamo' is
> > doing.
>
> No, they are not, and it's not Ray, it's LLP who is mad because yamo'
> depeered him after Marc Schaefer left usenet because of the same bullying.

Well, you told Ray "you are not a judge", so apparently it *is* also
about Ray.

As to your tiff with llp, we don't care. Well, I don't, because it's
just your word and I've seen enough bullying from your 'side' (plural).

> So, do you want to kill usenet :
>
> [ ] Yes
> [ ] No

Whether I ticked either box, it wouldn't mean/change a thing, so I'm
afraid Silly Games R Not Us.

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>05/03/2024 17:58, Adam H. Kerman:

>>I'll make the same request of you that I made of Frank Slootweg: Don't
>>go over the top. You are not obligated to express an opinion about
>>yamo's reputation. That's your right. But commenting about whether yamo'
>>is maintaining a good reputation is not bullying.

>I know who launched this stupid discussion.

I had disagreed with llp about cancels, but the NoCeMs include my
articles. There are no bright lines here separating sides as you are
trying to convince everyone of.
>>There is actual judgment of yamo's reputation taking place by those who
>>run Usenet: the News administrators. If yamo' cannot maintain his
>>reputation with them, they won't accept his NoCeMs.

>Well, ok, some of them won't, the same that already don't accept them,
>what's the point ?

It's unmoderated Usenet. We're having a discussion.
>>The rest of us are commenting without being News administrators
>>ourselves. We get to do that. It's unmoderated Usenet.

>Being a newsmaster doesn't make you a god, it just proves you have time to
>lose :)
>>You post in NANAU. Weren't NoCeMs issued against your articles too?

>I don't think so, LLP canceled some of my posts for no reason but he
>denies it.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>04/03/2024 19:29, Ray Banana:
>
> >>>Of course you don't know. Only the issuer of the NoCeMs can answer this
> >>>question reliably. Why doesn't yamo' speak for himself? Ignoring reports
> >>>about suspected false positives in NoCeM messages can seriously damage
> >>>his reputation.
>
> >>I repeat myself one last time, you are not a judge, yamo' can broadcast
> >>any NoCems he wants, if you have a problem with them don't use them. EOT,
> >>there is really nothing to add.
>
> > Again, you defend the indefensible.
>
> He cannot be forced to express an opinion about yamo's reputation if he
> doesn't care to.

Of course he can't be forced, but that doesn't give him the right/
excuse to attack others who question yamo's actions. (Of course he *can*
attack others, but then he'll have to face the consequences. Which is
exactly what happened.)

> > Face it, yamo' posts NoCems for perfectly legit articles, which
> >amounts to censorship. But he *claims* he only addresses 'spam' ("99.99%
> >spam" <https://pasdenom.info/nocem.en.html>).
>
> Please don't go over-the-top. I'm affected by this, same as you and
> others posting in NANAU. A censor acts on behalf of the state. Yamo' is
> not acting on anyone's behalf but his own. Not all suppression of speech
> and publication is censorship as an act of a public official.

Censorship is not limited to the state or/and a public official, but
granted, censorship is normally not from a single individual. Your
"suppression of speech" is indeed better and hence fine by me.

> > He apparently refuses to stand behind what he's doing, while *he*
> >(correctly) directs "Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet" (see for
> >example <uro1jq$4mk$1@rasp.pasdenom.info>).
>
> > So as Ray says, it's about yamo's reputation.
>
> > Saying that Ray is free to not use yamo's NoCems is a copout to deflect
> >from the real issue.
>
> I've said the same thing, that the reputation of the issuer of cancels
> or NoCeMs as abuse countermeasures is what's important. Anybody can
> issue these.
>
> yamo' controls his own reputation.

Indeed. And we get to question it, in the face of facts. And that's
what we did.

Le 05/03/2024 à 19:37, "Adam H. Kerman" a écrit :

> I had disagreed with llp about cancels, but the NoCeMs include my
> articles. There are no bright lines here separating sides as you are
> trying to convince everyone of.

Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today it's
PasDeNom, who's next ?

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>05/03/2024 19:37, Adam H. Kerman:

>>I had disagreed with llp about cancels, but the NoCeMs include my
>>articles. There are no bright lines here separating sides as you are
>>trying to convince everyone of.

>Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today it's
>PasDeNom, who's next ?

You're not going to fix llp either.

Le 05/03/2024 20:34, Adam H. Kerman a écrit :
> Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today it's
>>PasDeNom, who's next ?
>
> You're not going to fix llp either.

You are right, let him talk and ignore him.

« As the saying goes, it takes two (or more) to Tango ;-) » (© Ray Banana)

--
Olivier Miakinen

Le 05/03/2024 à 20:34, "Adam H. Kerman" a écrit :

>> Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today it's
>> PasDeNom, who's next ?
> You're not going to fix llp either.

I could take a look at his NoCems, I'm sure I would find many strange
things too, but I don't have the time for this, not anymore.

Thus spake Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com>
> Le 05/03/2024 à 20:34, "Adam H. Kerman" a écrit :

>>> Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today
>>> it's PasDeNom, who's next ?
>> You're not going to fix llp either.
> I could take a look at his NoCems, I'm sure I would find many strange
> things too, but I don't have the time for this, not anymore.

You are not a judge ;-P

I, for one, test all NoCems from all sources, even
my own, before I accept them on E-S. My users will first complain to me,
when articles are missing on the server and I will then find out who
sent these NoCeMs. If it looks like false positives, I will alert the
issuer of the notices, just like other newsadmins will do with my
notices. Except yamo'. they all replied and took the necessary action.
Except yamo', we all know we are not infallible.

--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org

Ray Banana <rayban@raybanana.net> wrote:
>Thus spake Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com>
>>05/03/2024 20:34, Adam H. Kerman:

>>>>Look what's happening, last week Paganini was a rogue server, today
>>>>it's PasDeNom, who's next ?

>>>You're not going to fix llp either.

>>I could take a look at his NoCems, I'm sure I would find many strange
>>things too, but I don't have the time for this, not anymore.

>You are not a judge ;-P

>I, for one, test all NoCems from all sources, even
>my own, before I accept them on E-S. My users will first complain to me,

I'm so glad we users have our uses.

>when articles are missing on the server and I will then find out who
>sent these NoCeMs. If it looks like false positives, I will alert the
>issuer of the notices, just like other newsadmins will do with my
>notices. Except yamo'. they all replied and took the necessary action.
>Except yamo', we all know we are not infallible.

yamo' <yamo@beurdin.invalid> wrote:

> I've just seen this thread,

Me too.

>> <uro1cn$1lo4$2@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
>> <uro1cs$1rl2$1@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
>> <uro1fb$1lo4$3@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
>
> Strange, check at this time does not match them has spam.

So you don't have them flagged as spam in the logs, but your bot still
sent NoCeMs for them for some reason? It might be an issue worth
investigating...

> Nono, will not look at news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ...

I don't think that whitelisting one group will fix this bug. It might
reappear on another groups.

Hi,

I've been away from usenet since 1st march.

Ray Banana a tapoté :
> Thus spake yamo' <yamo@beurdin.invalid>
>
> > > <uro1cn$1lo4$2@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
> > > <uro1cs$1rl2$1@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
> > > <uro1fb$1lo4$3@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
> > Strange, check at this time does not match them has spam.
>
> Hi, could you, please, check the following false positives:
>
> 2024-02-25 16:15:02 <urfp26$7lg$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urfp0j$f99$1@panix2.panix.com> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet

I've seen it. Nono doesn't like crossposts and is trained on fr.
Already marked has ham.

> 2024-02-25 21:15:02 <urgakm$bua$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urgajg$22g45$1@dont-email.me> news.software.readers

The style may be like a french troller...
Fixed but may be varying...

> 2024-02-25 21:55:02 <urgcvm$h62$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urgbs2$22t7u$2@dont-email.me> news.groups.proposals

I added exceptions.

> 2024-02-25 23:15:03 <urghln$qtb$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urgh6d$24l7j$1@dont-email.me> news.groups.proposals

The same.

> 2024-02-26 05:42:03 <urh8bb$2mi$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urh3g7$2mm6$1@neodome.net> news.admin.peering

Surely the neodome reputation...

> 2024-02-26 11:42:03 <urhteb$c39$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <slrnutou0s.diu.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com> news.software.readers

Only spam3 and now when reread not seen as spam.

> 2024-02-26 11:42:03 <urhteb$c39$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <92fdfc81-d367-3adb-58b6-88f3c5f6cd4d@example.net> news.software.readers

Only spam3, marked has ham.

> 2024-02-26 11:42:03 <urhteb$c39$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <XnsB124645989C50colingmacleodyahooco@135.181.20.170> news.software.readers

The same.

> 2024-02-26 12:05:02 <urhupe$ej0$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <slrnutovf2.diu.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com> news.software.readers

Spam2 and now not seen as spam.

> 2024-02-26 13:42:02 <uri4fa$pj7$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <XnsB124781FB5C61colingmacleodyahooco@135.181.20.170> news.software.readers

Only spam3 and now not seen as spam.

> 2024-02-26 16:15:02 <uride6$d2u$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urid51$2ke0h$1@dont-email.me> news.admin.peering

Too much quote for nono so looked like as a spam and now not seen as spam.
Probably because of precedent posts marked as ham.

> 2024-02-26 21:42:03 <urj0jb$k8t$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <uriv0r$2oi5i$1@dont-email.me> news.software.readers

An error in a rule for the flood writer.com.
Fixed.

> 2024-02-26 23:42:02 <urj7ka$1lh$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <JXwMf+53EanUfKYN2@bongo-ra.co> news.software.readers

Only spam3.
Reference to some loans like in many spams...
Fixed.

> 2024-02-27 05:42:02 <urjsna$5pl$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urjnhl$30pvi$1@dont-email.me> news.software.readers

Only spam3. Loans and a bug on a rule on drugs.
Marked has ham.
Fixed.

> 2024-02-27 16:10:03 <url1gr$apn$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <urknhu$37cem$1@dont-email.me> news.groups.proposals

Fixed with an exception.

> 2024-02-27 18:25:02 <url9du$pvs$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <url95q$3ba9t$3@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet

Strange. Actually not seen as spam.

> 2024-02-28 19:05:03 <uro04v$186$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <uro03k$1dv2$2@dont-email.me> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet

The same.

> 2024-03-01 10:20:02 <ursa4i$7bq$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <ursa3g$rpl$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> news.admin.net-abuse.misc

A guy who is often quoting spam...

> 2024-03-01 17:42:03 <urt41b$sse$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <1uxjarc5dx0gy.dlg@v.nguard.lh> news.software.readers

Bugs in a rule, marked has ham.

>
> Thanks in advance.
>

--
Stéphane
Soory for my bad English.

Thus spake yamo' <yamo@beurdin.invalid>
> Hi,

> I've been away from usenet since 1st march.
[...]
>> 2024-03-01 10:20:02 <ursa4i$7bq$1@rasp.pasdenom.info> <ursa3g$rpl$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> news.admin.net-abuse.misc
> A guy who is often quoting spam...

Well, he likes full quotes with WOL (Witless One Liners) added ;-)

> Bugs in a rule, marked has ham.

Thank you for looking into these issues and fixing the rules.

--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org

Salut,
Adam W. a tapoté le 07/03/2024 00:13:
> I don't think that whitelisting one group will fix this bug. It might
> reappear on another groups.

My spamassassin is trained on fr.* and doesn't like non-french posts so
before finding the good solutions only looking fr.* is a solution...

--
Stéphane
<http://pasdenom.info/news.html>