REF:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over

[excerpt quote=\"
The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
\" /]

It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
consider it sooner than later.

fwiw

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
> REF:
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
> \" /]
>
> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
> consider it sooner than later.
>
> fwiw

But do they still forcing the so called "hotfix" to add nag for upgrading to
newer Windows?

Sailfish,

> if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to consider it
> sooner than later

But first put some thought into the problem(s) they will likely run into if
they /ever/ need to re-install that OS - which will than not be possible
anymore.

Ofcourse, as long as someone installs something that needs to connect to a
licence server to verify that they are allowed to use/keep using their
software this is a song-and-dance they should be aquainted with.

https://xkcd.com/488/

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 30/09/2023 18:32, Sailfish wrote:
>
> REF:
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
> \" /]
>
> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
> consider it sooner than later.

Well, as documented in other threads, I created free upgraded builds for
my principle PCs just a month or two back, so, unless MS have done
something since then, it's still free to do. But yes, it was precisely
consideration of this sort of possibility that decided me to take a
unexpectedly great deal of time out from my current workload to get the
upgrades done.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In message <ufb3vt$1edhc$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 08:34:54,
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> writes
>Sailfish,
>
>> if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to consider it
>> sooner than later
>
>But first put some thought into the problem(s) they will likely run into if
>they /ever/ need to re-install that OS - which will than not be possible
>anymore.
>
>Ofcourse, as long as someone installs something that needs to connect to a
>licence server to verify that they are allowed to use/keep using their
>software this is a song-and-dance they should be aquainted with.
>
>https://xkcd.com/488/
[]
The Turnpike experience is of interest. Turnpike was a suite - mainly a
news and email client, though it also incorporated a ping, finger,
traceroute I think, and dialler and call cost monitor (yes, it started
in those days, though developed beyond; I'm still using it). It was
originally sold (_reasonably_ cheaply by the standards of the time) [and
I bought it]. Demon Internet (long vanished) then (I think they bought
the company that made Turnpike, or merged with it) brought out a free
version; its functionality was identical, but it only worked for Demon
customers. This was implemented by the Demon-Turnpike software, when
started, sending a certain signal to a server at Demon; if the
appropriate response was received, the software would start. [It was
only received - or the server only accessible, I don't know - if the
connection was a Demon customer.] The URL of the server was hard-coded
into the software somewhere.
As time went by, some Demon customers migrated to other ISPs, but wanted
to keep using Turnpike. But of course their free version would not work.
Also Turnpike eventually ceased to be both supported and available.
Someone - I'm not sure whether to avoid paying, or to help others after
TP ceased to be available - cracked the poll/response mechanism, and
kindly set up a server to mimic it; users only had to add a line to
their hosts file to point to him, and things were fine. Eventually
someone (not sure if the same person) released some code that allowed
users to run that "server" on their own machine (the host line now
pointing back to it); I'm not sure if he's still operating his server
(last I heard, which was a few years ago, it was still getting a few
"calls" a year). Demon's descendant company - I think it was Vodafone by
then - eventually turned off _their_ server, so even their own customers
(the Demon name struggled on for a while through the takeovers) couldn't
use the free version that way.

I presume (a) the Microsoft activation server code would be _much_
harder to crack, and (b) the initial solution - someone setting up a
public server to do it - would have them swamped with lawyers in fairly
short order. The final solution, of having it mimicked locally, would
work, assuming someone cracked it; the code would of course become
highly illegal to host, but would survive. (Under present circumstances,
Russia would probably be pleased to host it - probably even host a
server!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

%
.... the pleasure of the mind is an amazing thing. My life has been driven by
the satisfaction of curiosity. - Jeremy Paxman (being interviewed by Anne
Widdecombe), Radio Times, 2-8 July 2011

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 11:37:19 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 30/09/2023 18:32, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>> REF:
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>
>> [excerpt quote=\"
>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
>> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
>> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
>> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
>> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>> \" /]
>>
>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>> consider it sooner than later.
>
>Well, as documented in other threads, I created free upgraded builds for
>my principle PCs just a month or two back, so, unless MS have done
>something since then, it's still free to do. But yes, it was precisely
>consideration of this sort of possibility that decided me to take a
>unexpectedly great deal of time out from my current workload to get the
>upgrades done.

I did one yesterday (30 Sept); still works.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:

> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
> consider it sooner than later.
>
> fwiw

Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?

I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?

--
s|b

J. P. Gilliver,

> I presume (a) the Microsoft activation server code would be _much_
> harder to crack

Doing that is one way to do it. There are others.

> (b) the initial solution - someone setting up a public server to do
> it -

Which would not change anything to the "pirating" user : Both the official
as well as the suggested above pirated one could disappear at any moment.

Also, redirecting the program to such a pirated activation server could be
harder than you think.

> would have them swamped with lawyers in fairly short order.

Which is why a solution patching the progam itself (activation as well as
"telemetry") would be the easiest solution to the user, with the longest
lifespan (no dependencies).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In message <knt8h5Flg1vU8@mid.individual.net> at Sun, 1 Oct 2023
14:55:06, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>
>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>> consider it sooner than later.
>>
>> fwiw
>
>Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?

Presumably, software she has left at auto-update. Unless I have been
told that an upgrade will give me something I actually want, or fix a
bug (and then sometimes only if it's one I've encountered or think I
will), I don't upgrade.

Though I fear in time we'll get software that will stop working if it
can't call home, and/or after (say) three years. (I know we already have
some such, but I can see it becoming the norm.)
>
>I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>
Sailfish's original post says "Windows 10 users can still upgrade to
Windows 11 for now."
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I
have one. -Cato the Elder, statesman, soldier, and writer (234-149 BCE)

R.Wieser graced us with on 9/30/2023 11:34 PM:
> Sailfish,
>
>> if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to consider it
>> sooner than later
>
> But first put some thought into the problem(s) they will likely run into if
> they /ever/ need to re-install that OS - which will than not be possible
> anymore.
>
That concern should be mooted if one immediately does a clone backup
(e.g., recommend Macrium Reflect) which should be something one does
periodically thereafter.

But again, it's unclear if one can still take advantage of the free
upgrade according to the article.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Spalls Hurgenson graced us with on 10/1/2023 5:25 AM:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 11:37:19 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/09/2023 18:32, Sailfish wrote:
>>> REF:
>>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
>>> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
>>> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
>>> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
>>> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>>> \" /]
>>>
>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>>> consider it sooner than later.
>> Well, as documented in other threads, I created free upgraded builds for
>> my principle PCs just a month or two back, so, unless MS have done
>> something since then, it's still free to do. But yes, it was precisely
>> consideration of this sort of possibility that decided me to take a
>> unexpectedly great deal of time out from my current workload to get the
>> upgrades done.
>
> I did one yesterday (30 Sept); still works.
>
Thanks for the feedback ... good to know.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

s|b graced us with on 10/1/2023 5:55 AM:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>
>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>> consider it sooner than later.
>>
>> fwiw
>
> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>
> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>
It all depends if you computer will support Win11 which needs to have
the TPM feature, see below:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

If you don't have a particular need for Win11 the upgrading to Win10
should be okay.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

J. P. Gilliver graced us with on 10/1/2023 8:06 AM:
> In message <knt8h5Flg1vU8@mid.individual.net> at Sun, 1 Oct 2023
> 14:55:06, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>>> consider it sooner than later.
>>>
>>> fwiw
>>
>> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>
> Presumably, software she has left at auto-update. Unless I have been
> told that an upgrade will give me something I actually want, or fix a
> bug (and then sometimes only if it's one I've encountered or think I
> will), I don't upgrade.
>
> Though I fear in time we'll get software that will stop working if it
> can't call home, and/or after (say) three years. (I know we already have
> some such, but I can see it becoming the norm.)

Agree. Windows 7 is already being legacied by critical software companies:
- Firefox now only supports security patches and not new features
- Google no longer supports new features nor security patches
- Steam relies on Google and recently announced desupport of Win7 by EOY
>>
>> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>>
> Sailfish's original post says "Windows 10 users can still upgrade to
> Windows 11 for now."

Yes, if the meet one's machine meets the minimum Win11 requirements.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

JJ graced us with on 9/30/2023 8:56 PM:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>> REF:
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>
>> [excerpt quote=\"
>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
>> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
>> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
>> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
>> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>> \" /]
>>
>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>> consider it sooner than later.
>>
>> fwiw
>
> But do they still forcing the so called "hotfix" to add nag for upgrading to
> newer Windows?

I'm not sure I understand the question? The upgrade nag was done in Win7
and after micros~1 received heavy criticism, they provided a hotfix to
remove it.

As to whether they have, or will, add a similar Win10 timebomb is
doubtful but who can tell what they will do in the future?

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On 10/1/2023 2:09 PM, Sailfish wrote:
> JJ graced us with on 9/30/2023 8:56 PM:
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>> REF: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8 free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>>> \" /]
>>>
>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet. However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to consider it sooner than later.
>>>
>>> fwiw
>>
>> But do they still forcing the so called "hotfix" to add nag for upgrading to
>> newer Windows?
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question? The upgrade nag was done in Win7 and after micros~1 received heavy criticism, they provided a hotfix to remove it.
>
> As to whether they have, or will, add a similar Win10 timebomb is doubtful but who can tell what they will do in the future?
>

The GWX campaign, earlier on, existed to help a couple of executives
get their bonus money. If they got a billion people to install Windows 10,
they could get a bonus. That's why the campaign was aggressive.

You will notice one of the executives has left, and the other guy is
"virtually invisible" and no longer has a public persona. Just as
Russinovich (Azure presumably), got slapped for some things he said,
and he has not really appeared in public since.

The program to allow users to convert their W7SP1 and W8.1 licenses
into Win10 licenses, continues to this day, but there's not really
an executive who profits in a tangible way from it. Even Panos Panay
has left, as of a couple days ago, leaving the Surface group rudderless.

Panos started by running the hardware business, and making Surface equipment.
When the Windows OS division fell apart, he was "given the 7000 employees"
from it. Here, eat this! Now, his boss would tell him "I want you to earn
a profit from those 7000 employees". Panos has left, indicating he has
received enough nagging from the boss, about those 7000 employees on
the payroll.

The 7000 number is such an old number, it is unlikely to be remotely
accurate today. A small team will work on Windows 12. Maybe it takes
200 people, five years to write a decent OS. Whatever staff have
been assigned, will produce a result in much less time than that.
I leave the conclusions to draw from that, to the audience :-)

The OS has a wide audience. There is a special version for the US Military,
which will have all the lock-down features enabled. There are many streams
to be maintained.

Paul

On 10/1/2023 2:02 PM, Sailfish wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver graced us with on 10/1/2023 8:06 AM:
>> In message <knt8h5Flg1vU8@mid.individual.net> at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 14:55:06, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>>>> consider it sooner than later.
>>>>
>>>> fwiw
>>>
>>> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>>> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>>> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>>
>> Presumably, software she has left at auto-update. Unless I have been told that an upgrade will give me something I actually want, or fix a bug (and then sometimes only if it's one I've encountered or think I will), I don't upgrade.
>>
>> Though I fear in time we'll get software that will stop working if it can't call home, and/or after (say) three years. (I know we already have some such, but I can see it becoming the norm.)
>
> Agree. Windows 7 is already being legacied by critical software companies:
> - Firefox now only supports security patches and not new features
> - Google no longer supports new features nor security patches
> - Steam relies on Google and recently announced desupport of Win7 by EOY
>>>
>>> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>>>
>> Sailfish's original post says "Windows 10 users can still upgrade to Windows 11 for now."
>
> Yes, if the meet one's machine meets the minimum Win11 requirements.
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications
>

My Test Machine, has no TPM. I could use Rufus.ie to install
Windows 11 on it. But, if I did so, the 23H2 upgrade to Win11,
will not come in automatically, because the Windows Update thinks
it is running Windows 10 in a sense. This is the problem with the
Rufus.ie tick boxes for this -- the OS installed sure looks like
W11, but, it lacks in certain departments (upgrade-ability).

My Optiplex has a TPM, but it is an old version, and W11
does not care for it. The processor does not have MBEC and
presumably other bits and bobs. Not a candidate for W11 either.

My daily driver has two TPMs, both capable, the processor feature
set is fine, and it has W11. The "stuttering TPM" is disabled :-)

The selection of machines that will automatically go from W10 to W11
without a fuss, is strictly limited. It is a relatively small population
of machines. Business machines are more likely to have TPMs, and if you
got a refurb recently, it just might accept W11. But if you enter
your junk room, looking for a candidate machine, forget it. I only
have the one machine that is truly compatible -- I could bodge a
copy onto at least four machines, but that's not feature-complete
(as if that matters).

Paul

On 10/1/2023 1:55 PM, Sailfish wrote:
> s|b graced us with on 10/1/2023 5:55 AM:
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want
>>> to consider it sooner than later.
>>>
>>> fwiw
>>
>> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>>
>> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>>
> It all depends if you computer will support Win11 which needs to have the TPM feature, see below:
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications
>
> If you don't have a particular need for Win11 the upgrading to Win10 should be okay.

If all you need is email and web surfing, then there is
a whole list of options, many of which will trigger a gag reflex :-)

The concept of the desktop PC is really over the hill now.
Look at how Intel is struggling to stay awake. Sure, sure,
Intel has this-or-that in the pipe. They put on a good show for
the investors. But notice that some of that pipe-ware, was
slow to be delivered. They are deploying their chiplet capability
slowly, because packaging capacity for chiplet products is limited.
(I believe they're building a factory for this right now.)

At this date, your strategy should be to install Windows 10.
The odds of success are good. It will activate, "saving"
your activation options for "later dates". When W7/W8 are cut
adrift, you will be riding on a "W10 iceburg". You've done the
best you can, for your "dreams of succession". You can engage
with W11 at some later date. You don't really want to know
whether it will work... But at some point, you're going
to need to test it, with Rufus.ie or without Rufus.ie .
the tick boxes for Windows 11, are on another screen not shown.
You prepare a USB stick with it, and on a separate page,
are the tick boxes to bodge W11 onto W10-capable machines.

https://rufus.ie/en/

Paul

Paul graced us with on 10/1/2023 2:05 PM:
> On 10/1/2023 2:02 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver graced us with on 10/1/2023 8:06 AM:
>>> In message <knt8h5Flg1vU8@mid.individual.net> at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 14:55:06, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> writes
>>>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>>>>> consider it sooner than later.
>>>>>
>>>>> fwiw
>>>> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>>>> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>>>> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>>> Presumably, software she has left at auto-update. Unless I have been told that an upgrade will give me something I actually want, or fix a bug (and then sometimes only if it's one I've encountered or think I will), I don't upgrade.
>>>
>>> Though I fear in time we'll get software that will stop working if it can't call home, and/or after (say) three years. (I know we already have some such, but I can see it becoming the norm.)
>> Agree. Windows 7 is already being legacied by critical software companies:
>> - Firefox now only supports security patches and not new features
>> - Google no longer supports new features nor security patches
>> - Steam relies on Google and recently announced desupport of Win7 by EOY
>>>> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>>>>
>>> Sailfish's original post says "Windows 10 users can still upgrade to Windows 11 for now."
>> Yes, if the meet one's machine meets the minimum Win11 requirements.
>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications
>>
>
> My Test Machine, has no TPM. I could use Rufus.ie to install
> Windows 11 on it. But, if I did so, the 23H2 upgrade to Win11,
> will not come in automatically, because the Windows Update thinks
> it is running Windows 10 in a sense. This is the problem with the
> Rufus.ie tick boxes for this -- the OS installed sure looks like
> W11, but, it lacks in certain departments (upgrade-ability).
>
> My Optiplex has a TPM, but it is an old version, and W11
> does not care for it. The processor does not have MBEC and
> presumably other bits and bobs. Not a candidate for W11 either.
>
> My daily driver has two TPMs, both capable, the processor feature
> set is fine, and it has W11. The "stuttering TPM" is disabled :-)
>
> The selection of machines that will automatically go from W10 to W11
> without a fuss, is strictly limited. It is a relatively small population
> of machines. Business machines are more likely to have TPMs, and if you
> got a refurb recently, it just might accept W11. But if you enter
> your junk room, looking for a candidate machine, forget it. I only
> have the one machine that is truly compatible -- I could bodge a
> copy onto at least four machines, but that's not feature-complete
> (as if that matters).
>
Thanks for the details of your Win11 travails, it sounds like what I
suspected after reading some earlier reviews ... it's a crap-shoot with
non-new machines.

Luckily, I not seeing anything in Win11 that makes an urgency to upgrade to.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Paul graced us with on 10/1/2023 2:21 PM:
> On 10/1/2023 1:55 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> s|b graced us with on 10/1/2023 5:55 AM:
>>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want
>>>> to consider it sooner than later.
>>>>
>>>> fwiw
>>> Tnx! I recently "upgraded" my sister's PC from W8 to W11. She was
>>> starting to get notifications from software that stated they wouldn't
>>> support W8 anymore. Should I now install W11?
>>>
>>> I think my mother's got W10. Maybe I should check for an upgrade to W11?
>>>
>> It all depends if you computer will support Win11 which needs to have the TPM feature, see below:
>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications
>>
>> If you don't have a particular need for Win11 the upgrading to Win10 should be okay.
>
> If all you need is email and web surfing, then there is
> a whole list of options, many of which will trigger a gag reflex :-)
>
> The concept of the desktop PC is really over the hill now.
> Look at how Intel is struggling to stay awake. Sure, sure,
> Intel has this-or-that in the pipe. They put on a good show for
> the investors. But notice that some of that pipe-ware, was
> slow to be delivered. They are deploying their chiplet capability
> slowly, because packaging capacity for chiplet products is limited.
> (I believe they're building a factory for this right now.)
>
> At this date, your strategy should be to install Windows 10.
> The odds of success are good. It will activate, "saving"
> your activation options for "later dates". When W7/W8 are cut
> adrift, you will be riding on a "W10 iceburg". You've done the
> best you can, for your "dreams of succession". You can engage
> with W11 at some later date. You don't really want to know
> whether it will work... But at some point, you're going
> to need to test it, with Rufus.ie or without Rufus.ie .
> the tick boxes for Windows 11, are on another screen not shown.
> You prepare a USB stick with it, and on a separate page,
> are the tick boxes to bodge W11 onto W10-capable machines.
>
> https://rufus.ie/en/
>
OT: Intel
//
Intel's problem is that they did what a lot of US industries fall into,
allowing their past innovations and believing that incremental upgrades
will continue to carry them through the ever-demanding quarterly revenue
reports. This works until it doesn't (ala, K cars) as they now find
themselves playing a more expensive runner-up to AMD.

I agree that desktops are becoming a niche market, mostly focusing on
the gaming and cryptocurrency communities with the graphic card play the
dominant role.
//
I agree on the Win10 upgrade as being the preferable option (previously
discussed in "Steam Desupport of Win7 EOY" thread).

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
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Paul graced us with on 10/1/2023 1:57 PM:
> On 10/1/2023 2:09 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> JJ graced us with on 9/30/2023 8:56 PM:
>>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:32:10 -0700, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> REF: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>>>
>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8 free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>>>> \" /]
>>>>
>>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet. However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to consider it sooner than later.
>>>>
>>>> fwiw
>>> But do they still forcing the so called "hotfix" to add nag for upgrading to
>>> newer Windows?
>> I'm not sure I understand the question? The upgrade nag was done in Win7 and after micros~1 received heavy criticism, they provided a hotfix to remove it.
>>
>> As to whether they have, or will, add a similar Win10 timebomb is doubtful but who can tell what they will do in the future?
>>
>
> The GWX campaign, earlier on, existed to help a couple of executives
> get their bonus money. If they got a billion people to install Windows 10,
> they could get a bonus. That's why the campaign was aggressive.
>
> You will notice one of the executives has left, and the other guy is
> "virtually invisible" and no longer has a public persona. Just as
> Russinovich (Azure presumably), got slapped for some things he said,
> and he has not really appeared in public since.
>
> The program to allow users to convert their W7SP1 and W8.1 licenses
> into Win10 licenses, continues to this day, but there's not really
> an executive who profits in a tangible way from it. Even Panos Panay
> has left, as of a couple days ago, leaving the Surface group rudderless.
>
> Panos started by running the hardware business, and making Surface equipment.
> When the Windows OS division fell apart, he was "given the 7000 employees"
> from it. Here, eat this! Now, his boss would tell him "I want you to earn
> a profit from those 7000 employees". Panos has left, indicating he has
> received enough nagging from the boss, about those 7000 employees on
> the payroll.
>
I've lost interest in following the Microsoft saga when Steve bought the
Clippers but back when I worked in tech, that was a ploy I experienced
first hand when there was a merger afoot. Pass the non-revenue
generating cost center employees to a fall guy to have to layoff once
the merger took effect. It sounds like Panos may have been aware of that
ploy, as well? :-)

> The 7000 number is such an old number, it is unlikely to be remotely
> accurate today. A small team will work on Windows 12. Maybe it takes
> 200 people, five years to write a decent OS. Whatever staff have
> been assigned, will produce a result in much less time than that.
> I leave the conclusions to draw from that, to the audience :-)
>
> The OS has a wide audience. There is a special version for the US Military,
> which will have all the lock-down features enabled. There are many streams
> to be maintained.
>

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 12:36:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

<snipped the Turnpike story>

>I presume (a) the Microsoft activation server code would be _much_
>harder to crack, and (b) the initial solution - someone setting up a
>public server to do it - would have them swamped with lawyers in fairly
>short order. The final solution, of having it mimicked locally, would
>work, assuming someone cracked it; the code would of course become
>highly illegal to host, but would survive. (Under present circumstances,
>Russia would probably be pleased to host it - probably even host a
>server!)

It sounds like you're describing KMS. Microsoft did the heavy lifting many years
ago. As a result, I've been running multiple KMS-activated systems for many
years now. I have plenty of valid keys, but KMS is more interesting. When I need
to spin up a dozen VMs to simulate a customer network, it's faster and easier to
use KMS than to use individual keys.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/get-started/kms-client-activation-keys

Sailfish,

> That concern should be mooted if one immediately does a clone backup

Thats good for that particular 'puter, but might not function well when
"restored" onto a new one. Hardware differences needing different drivers
and
all that.

IOW, there is a reason why I mentioned re-install, and not just restoring
the current 'puter.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In message <qe8khihh07fee1g6tfjuan582nqhf6s7dl@4ax.com> at Sun, 1 Oct
2023 21:20:40, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
>On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 12:36:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>It sounds like you're describing KMS. Microsoft did the heavy lifting
>many years
>ago. As a result, I've been running multiple KMS-activated systems for many
>years now. I have plenty of valid keys, but KMS is more interesting.
>When I need
>to spin up a dozen VMs to simulate a customer network, it's faster and
>easier to
>use KMS than to use individual keys.
>
>https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/get-started/kms-client-
>activation-keys
>
Ah, so it's a version of a Volume Licencing Key - XPSP1 era? MS more or
less abandoned them as too many were escaping into the wild - that
(presumably regularly) seeks permission to continue, but that permission
can be supplied by a nearby server.

_Presumably_ the Turnpike method could be used, i. e. have the server be
implemented on the same machine that seeks permission. Or maybe not, as
booting sequencing might be wrong.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Less rules means fewer grammar? - Marjorie in UMRA, 2014-1-28 13:14

On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 08:25:25 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 11:37:19 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 30/09/2023 18:32, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>> REF:
>>> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-says-the-days-of-free-windows-7-to-10-or-11-updates-are-over
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> The company explains its newly enacted Windows upgrade policy as
>>> follows: "Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 / 11 ended July
>>> 29, 2016," it says. "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8
>>> free upgrade is now removed as well." However, Windows 10 users can
>>> still upgrade to Windows 11 for now.
>>> \" /]
>>>
>>> It's a bit unclear if the door has been completely shut, as yet.
>>> However, if anyone still planning on the free upgrade, they may want to
>>> consider it sooner than later.
>>
>>Well, as documented in other threads, I created free upgraded builds for
>>my principle PCs just a month or two back, so, unless MS have done
>>something since then, it's still free to do. But yes, it was precisely
>>consideration of this sort of possibility that decided me to take a
>>unexpectedly great deal of time out from my current workload to get the
>>upgrades done.
>
>I did one yesterday (30 Sept); still works.

Also, did another (what can I say, I have a bunch of old Win7 laptops)
on 1 October, so we know that end-of-September wasn't a cut-off date
either.

I suspect that that the end, if and when it comes, won't be well
announced, and probably won't be in the immediate (like, the next few
weeks, or even months). But if you're intending to update your Win7
machine to Windows10, it's probably safer to do it sooner than later.

R.Wieser graced us with on 10/1/2023 11:32 PM:
> Sailfish,
>
>> That concern should be mooted if one immediately does a clone backup
>
> Thats good for that particular 'puter, but might not function well when
> "restored" onto a new one. Hardware differences needing different drivers
> and
> all that.
>
> IOW, there is a reason why I mentioned re-install, and not just restoring
> the current 'puter.
>
I'm still missing the context. Upgrades, whether free or not, are tied
to the computer that was upgraded. Otherwise, one could use an upgrade
to upgrade multiple other computers, yes?

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
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