On 06/08/2023 22:21, Paul wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 7:18 AM, David Brooks wrote:
>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38 GMT in
>>>>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing very
>>>>>>> dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you admitting you
>>>>>>> were trolling me or anyone else previously though. Interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there school
>>>>>> you. If you dare!
>>>>>
>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of them are
>>>>> gurus, many are not.
>>>>
>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>
>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you think they
>>>>> will be schooling me in?
>>>>
>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>
>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over on me. You
>>>>> were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it nice to read from some of
>>>>> the others who post here with technical backgrounds have all backed up what I
>>>>> wrote, while, not supporting - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What
>>>>> do you have to say about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh,
>>>>> old bean.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your thoughts to
>>>> the thread here:- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>
>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>
>>>    Gremlin:
>>>      -----
>>>      So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>      easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>      a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>      point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>      copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>      them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>      duplicate one.
>>>      -----
>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY, where a new
>>> file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is the same data, with
>>> what happens when one of those files is opened and changed.
>>>
>>>      -----
>>>      Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>      file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>      the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>      a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>      being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>      havent even made yet?
>>>      -----
>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>
>>>      -----
>>>      If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>      should be a complete copy.
>>>      -----
>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file browser) but
>>> it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>
>>>      -----
>>>      It can't track differences and
>>>      just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>      changes to the original.
>>>      -----
>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is incoherent
>>> nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced file changes being
>>> tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do not know... but his
>>> comment is gibberish.
>>>
>>>      ----
>>>      You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>      in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>      specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>      -----
>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land of APFS
>>> being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which it is compared
>>> to other natural file systems to compare it to (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe
>>> even FAT32/64) he could not understand that, either.
>>>
>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went into
>>> nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>
>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>
>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>
> There's a little more info here.
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/43043-using-apfs-on-hdds-and-why-you-might-not-want-to/

Hello again, Paul :-)

That is a very straightforward and interesting article. Many thanks for
taking the
time and trouble to find it and present it here.

I've passed it on to a real-life friend who first asked about this
matter some days ago.He was far more interested than me as he has an
newish M1 iMac with only 250 GB SSDI've explained that nowadays he can
keep oodles of data in the Apple
iCloud for minimal cost. Most probably a cheaper option that paying much
more for a machine with a higher capacity hard drive in the first instance.

--
With kind regards,
David

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT, Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
wrote:

>On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing you?
>> You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>
>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>
>I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny little poser. As soon as
>David no longer needs snit, he will throw him under the bus,
>The one caveat is why would David need snit?
>Nobody else seems to.

The best way I can describe the relationship between David and Snit is like
this. Sometimes, two turds in a toilet bowl get stuck to each other, creating a
single bigger turd. Like you said, it's a relationship that's guaranteed not to
last.

On 06/08/2023 16:36, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
[....]
>>>      -----
>>>      Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>      file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>      the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>      a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>      being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>      havent even made yet?
>>>      -----
>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>
>>>      -----
>>>      If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>      should be a complete copy.
>>>      -----
>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>> browser) but
>>> it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>
>>>      -----
>>>      It can't track differences and
>>>      just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>      changes to the original.
>>>      -----
>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is incoherent
>>> nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced file
>>> changes being
>>> tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do not know... but his
>>> comment is gibberish.
>>>
>>>      ----
>>>      You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>      in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>      specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>      -----
>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>> of APFS
>>> being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which it is
>>> compared
>>> to other natural file systems to compare it to (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS...
>>> maybe
>>> even FAT32/64) he could not understand that, either.
>>>
>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>> into
>>> nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>
>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>
>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>
> This one is a little longer, perhaps better, explainer video.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I7fg930Deg

Hi Rafters :-D

Thank you so much for providing this video. I've now had the chance to
watch it and gain a modicum of understanding. So much has changed over
the last 40 years. I've 'found' a missing photograph of my late son,
Nick, working at our BBC 'B' computer circa 1983/84.
https://ibb.co/B3Hk0gT
I learned, along with him, all there was to know about basic computing
way back then, but I was never, ever, a professional in the craft.

The Internet today has so very much to offer and everything here on my
iMac works as if by magic. I don't NEED to know HOW it works, just make
sure that it does! ;-)

I really value the help and advice which you have given me over many
years. Thanks again. It is very much appreciated.

--
With kind regards,
David

On 2023-08-07, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT, Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing you?
>>> You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>>
>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>
>>I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny little poser. As soon as
>>David no longer needs snit, he will throw him under the bus,
>>The one caveat is why would David need snit?
>>Nobody else seems to.
>
> The best way I can describe the relationship between David and Snit is like
> this. Sometimes, two turds in a toilet bowl get stuck to each other, creating a
> single bigger turd. Like you said, it's a relationship that's guaranteed not to
> last.
>

ROTFLMAO!

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land

To me, this is an example of "la la land":

DB: "Will you address this please? (I started a new thread)

What do you think of the answer given by "etresoft" here:-

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853?page=1"

Your non sequitur response to DB's question:

"Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
then it changes later."

DB, *strongly noting* that you're having 'issues':

"I don't understand why you think this has ANYTHING to do with
marketing!!!"

You, 'doing what you do' as you now include your obsession:

"Carroll and Gremlin want to present me in a certain way... SELL that I
am whatever.

But they focus on me... just as Kroger might focus on Coke. They want to
make themselves look better than the market leader."

DB, now flatly recognizing the insane extent to which your tiny brain is
misfiring:

"You seem WAY off topic there, Snit! <Shakes head>"

You, attempting to connect dots to your obsession:

"It is an analogy... and looking at the psychology. People target those
they see as better than them with such attacks... no need to target
those you see as below you."

This is the 'state' you were in surrounding this copying issue, even DB
was wondering WTF was wrong with you.

On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
><sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38 GMT in
>>>>>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing very
>>>>>>>> dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you admitting you
>>>>>>>> were trolling me or anyone else previously though. Interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there school
>>>>>>> you. If you dare!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of them are
>>>>>> gurus, many are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>
>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you think they
>>>>>> will be schooling me in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over on me. You
>>>>>> were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it nice to read from some of
>>>>>> the others who post here with technical backgrounds have all backed up what I
>>>>>> wrote, while, not supporting - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What
>>>>>> do you have to say about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh,
>>>>>> old bean.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your thoughts to
>>>>> the thread here:- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>
>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>
>>>> Gremlin:
>>>> -----
>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>> duplicate one.
>>>> -----
>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY, where a new
>>>> file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is the same data, with
>>>> what happens when one of those files is opened and changed.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>> -----
>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file browser) but
>>>> it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>> changes to the original.
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is incoherent
>>>> nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced file changes being
>>>> tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do not know... but his
>>>> comment is gibberish.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>> -----
>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land of APFS
>>>> being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which it is compared
>>>> to other natural file systems to compare it to (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe
>>>> even FAT32/64) he could not understand that, either.
>>>>
>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went into
>>>> nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>
>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing you?
>> You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>
>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>
> I quoted Gremlin.

I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
(despite your babbling about "marketing"):

"Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
then it changes later."

And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:

"Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
case you change your mind for a period of time?"

Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:

"Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."

You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".

Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:

"Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
make space. Does not explain why things take time though."

Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
determined:

"If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
complete copy."

And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
"Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
yet to make your 'sale').

To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
"Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."

IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
you they aren't.

On Aug 7, 2023 at 4:03:40 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<gc4AM.310541$U3w1.239320@fx09.iad>:

> On 06/08/2023 16:36, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
> [....]
>>>> -----
>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>> -----
>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>> browser) but
>>>> it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>> changes to the original.
>>>> -----
>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is incoherent
>>>> nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced file
>>>> changes being
>>>> tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I do not know... but his
>>>> comment is gibberish.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>> -----
>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>> of APFS
>>>> being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new, which it is
>>>> compared
>>>> to other natural file systems to compare it to (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS...
>>>> maybe
>>>> even FAT32/64) he could not understand that, either.
>>>>
>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and went
>>>> into
>>>> nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>
>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>
>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>
>> This one is a little longer, perhaps better, explainer video.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I7fg930Deg
>
> Hi Rafters :-D
>
> Thank you so much for providing this video. I've now had the chance to
> watch it and gain a modicum of understanding. So much has changed over
> the last 40 years. I've 'found' a missing photograph of my late son,
> Nick, working at our BBC 'B' computer circa 1983/84.
> https://ibb.co/B3Hk0gT
> I learned, along with him, all there was to know about basic computing
> way back then, but I was never, ever, a professional in the craft.
>
> The Internet today has so very much to offer and everything here on my
> iMac works as if by magic. I don't NEED to know HOW it works, just make
> sure that it does! ;-)

Even with not knowing the back end, it is good to know that if you copy a 10
GB file you are not taking an additional 10 GB of space, and you can still
make changes to either file. This is very different than what we had in the
past.

>
> I really value the help and advice which you have given me over many
> years. Thanks again. It is very much appreciated.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 2023-08-07, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's a little more info here.
>>
>> https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/43043-using-apfs-on-hdds-and-why-you-might-not-want-to/
>>
>> Paul
>
> Remember reading about these issues when APFS was new. It is still fairly new,
> but old enough I have forgotten details.

It's (fairly) "new" but "old" (enough). LOL!

> Thanks.

Even if we leave the 'tech' aspects out of it, wouldn't using phrases
like "Apple's most recent FS", "Apple's latest FS", or even "Apple's
newest FS" make more sense than using the word "new" for something that
came out half a dozen years ago? It's OK to use more and/or bigger
words/phrases to get your point across ;)

On 2023-08-05, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
>> news:TlqzM.486150$TPw2.42499@fx17.iad Sat, 05 Aug 2023 11:26:43 GMT in
>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>> FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>> news:uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me Fri, 04 Aug 2023 09:41:06 GMT in
>>>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit brought next idea :
>>>>>> LOL! He really is sorta clueless. What common file systems are newer?
>>>>>> It is not like apps which get updated significant year by year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy
>>>>>> not taking any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
>>>>> strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
>>>>> copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
>>>>> not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
>>>>> 'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
>>>>> caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy'
>>>>> in the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to
>>>>> actually be created with the modifications and the two files would
>>>>> then be different.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was
>>>>> discussed before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest.
>>>>> Fact is, you can see this happening if you copy a large file to the
>>>>> same and different volumes and note the difference in time to complete
>>>>> the task.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for joining the increasing list of the regulars with a tech
>>>> background who post here, calling snit out for the BS he wrote about
>>>> me. I do appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I enjoy and learn from FTR and your posts.
>>> Both of you are obviously highly skilled and technical.
>>
>> Thanks man. I know we're both just pixels on a screen, but as you seem to
>> know, there's actually a person behind the screen. :)
>>
>> I agree with what you wrote, btw. FtR, And Apd are peers of mine. They are
>> both perfectly capable of not only understanding me, but potentially
>> schooling me in more than one area of tech to boot.:)
>>
>> They are the very thing Snit so badly wishes he was. Not only are both of
>> them actually peers and respected by default in that arena, they're also
>> what I'd call an elder peer; they *do* know more about some aspects of tech
>> than I'll ever learn. Snit can't become a peer likely in my lifetime because
>> he hasn't put the time in, and from the looks of things, never will.
>>
>> Productive and Snit aren't even distant cousins.
>>
>>
>
> I too have learned from just about everyone in the group except for snit.
> Even DB posts interesting material at times. I found his recently posted link to email header
> deciphering interesting.
> Snit's posts are nothing more than pablum puke from an infant and every thread he pokes his pointy
> nose into he tries to create chaos because he is incapable of sitting back quietly and learning
> something new. Snit needs to be the center of attention all the time.

That's why I 'help' him achieve that 'goal' ;)

On 2023-08-07, Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none> wrote:
> On 2023-08-05, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
>>> news:TlqzM.486150$TPw2.42499@fx17.iad Sat, 05 Aug 2023 11:26:43 GMT in
>>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>>> FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>> news:uaih3p$17lff$1@dont-email.me Fri, 04 Aug 2023 09:41:06 GMT in
>>>>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Snit brought next idea :
>>>>>>> LOL! He really is sorta clueless. What common file systems are newer?
>>>>>>> It is not like apps which get updated significant year by year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, of course, you saw how he was lost on the idea of a file copy
>>>>>>> not taking any signifiant room, even for a 10 GB file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are wrong there. It is/was well known that even many older drives
>>>>>> strategies had that part of that feature. Within a volume, making a
>>>>>> copy meant merely making another path to the same resource on disk --
>>>>>> not even a new file gets created in that case even though you get a
>>>>>> 'new icon' in your user interface. Making a copy to another volume
>>>>>> caused creation of an actual new complete file. Modifying the 'copy'
>>>>>> in the aforementioned 'new path' scenario would cause a file to
>>>>>> actually be created with the modifications and the two files would
>>>>>> then be different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know for a fact that Gremlin is/was aware of this as it was
>>>>>> discussed before, so he could not have been 'lost' as you suggest.
>>>>>> Fact is, you can see this happening if you copy a large file to the
>>>>>> same and different volumes and note the difference in time to complete
>>>>>> the task.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for joining the increasing list of the regulars with a tech
>>>>> background who post here, calling snit out for the BS he wrote about
>>>>> me. I do appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I enjoy and learn from FTR and your posts.
>>>> Both of you are obviously highly skilled and technical.
>>>
>>> Thanks man. I know we're both just pixels on a screen, but as you seem to
>>> know, there's actually a person behind the screen. :)
>>>
>>> I agree with what you wrote, btw. FtR, And Apd are peers of mine. They are
>>> both perfectly capable of not only understanding me, but potentially
>>> schooling me in more than one area of tech to boot.:)
>>>
>>> They are the very thing Snit so badly wishes he was. Not only are both of
>>> them actually peers and respected by default in that arena, they're also
>>> what I'd call an elder peer; they *do* know more about some aspects of tech
>>> than I'll ever learn. Snit can't become a peer likely in my lifetime because
>>> he hasn't put the time in, and from the looks of things, never will.
>>>
>>> Productive and Snit aren't even distant cousins.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I too have learned from just about everyone in the group except for snit.
>> Even DB posts interesting material at times. I found his recently posted link to email header
>> deciphering interesting.
>> Snit's posts are nothing more than pablum puke from an infant and every thread he pokes his pointy
>> nose into he tries to create chaos because he is incapable of sitting back quietly and learning
>> something new. Snit needs to be the center of attention all the time.
>
> That's why I 'help' him achieve that 'goal' ;)

Well I suppose somebody has to help snit because he is clearly incapable of helping himself and his
family doesn't seem to care so snit can use all the help he can get.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 2023-08-07, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Internet today has so very much to offer and everything here on my
>> iMac works as if by magic. I don't NEED to know HOW it works, just make
>> sure that it does! ;-)
>
> Even with not knowing the back end, it is good to know that if you copy a 10
> GB file you are not taking an additional 10 GB of space,

Which necessarily means that it's not an "actual new complete file" (to
quote FTR). As has been "noted", there are times when it's not all that
"good".

> and you can still make changes to either file. This is very different
> than what we had in the past.

The "past", as in: prior to something like git?

On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:ualhtk$1ob2g$2@dont-email.me Sat, 05
> Aug 2023 13:13:24 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:uaf5v7$gbrh$1@dont-email.me Thu,
>>> 03 Aug 2023 03:12:39 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was baiting snit !
>>>> LOL !
>>>
>>> My bad, My bad.
>>>
>>>> I think my question spun his head around like Linda Blair !
>>>
>>> If it didn't, my detailed QA session concerning cloning sure as hell
>>> did. He doesn't know which was is up or down. But, naturally, instead
>>> of admit he was wrong, he'll convert it to opinions so that he can
>>> "agree to disagree" with everyone who wrote about the subject, all
>>> without, having to admit he was wrong when he jumped the gun and
>>> mistakenly assumed I didn't know what cloning was until Snit arrived.
>>> That's really what he wanted people to think!
>>>
>>
>> Snit's gone off the rails. His behavior as of late, has become quite
>> loony. I hope he gets his medication dosage adjusted because something
>> has gone amok.
>
> He's doing the same thing with that discussion that he did when he was asked
> about the floodbot story. At no point did he ever admit he'd done anything
> wrong. All the time, he continued to partially quote me and provide his
> opinion about what I meant; completely ignoring myself, Ftr, And Apd as he
> did so.
>
> He's literally doing the same thing here, practially following the same
> script.
>

Indeed.
According to SC, snit's been playing the same game for 20 years.
OMG, how sick is that?
Snit has literally wasted a 1/4 of his life trolling.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
> news:8cUzM.460099$mPI2.342948@fx15.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT in
> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>
>>>>Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>
>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>>
>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>
>> I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny
>> little poser. As soon as David no longer needs snit, he will throw him
>> under the bus, The one caveat is why would David need snit?
>> Nobody else seems to.
>
> Snit and I aren't 'friends'; it's for that reason Snit is of use to him. No,
> I'm not BSing in the least little bit. It's a known pattern with David
> Brooks. He used pcbutts for the same purpose, and contrary to what he claims
> now, he did claim pcbutts was a friend, just like he claims snit is, until
> pcbutts was of no further use to him.
>
> You can fact check me, by reviewing alt.comp.freeware and alt.comp.virus.
> It's two places where pcbutts was doing his thing, and David was supporting
> him, just like he supports snit here.
>
> How many posts in this thread alone has David tried to back snit, despite
> the fact, Snit was wrong concerning the subject? Not only tried to back him,
> but continued to attack me as he did so.
>

Backing snit is like betting on a 3 legged horse in The Kentucky Derby.
It's a sure loser.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 21:35:26 -0000 (UTC), pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

>On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:ualhtk$1ob2g$2@dont-email.me Sat, 05
>> Aug 2023 13:13:24 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:uaf5v7$gbrh$1@dont-email.me Thu,
>>>> 03 Aug 2023 03:12:39 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was baiting snit !
>>>>> LOL !
>>>>
>>>> My bad, My bad.
>>>>
>>>>> I think my question spun his head around like Linda Blair !
>>>>
>>>> If it didn't, my detailed QA session concerning cloning sure as hell
>>>> did. He doesn't know which was is up or down. But, naturally, instead
>>>> of admit he was wrong, he'll convert it to opinions so that he can
>>>> "agree to disagree" with everyone who wrote about the subject, all
>>>> without, having to admit he was wrong when he jumped the gun and
>>>> mistakenly assumed I didn't know what cloning was until Snit arrived.
>>>> That's really what he wanted people to think!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Snit's gone off the rails. His behavior as of late, has become quite
>>> loony. I hope he gets his medication dosage adjusted because something
>>> has gone amok.
>>
>> He's doing the same thing with that discussion that he did when he was asked
>> about the floodbot story. At no point did he ever admit he'd done anything
>> wrong. All the time, he continued to partially quote me and provide his
>> opinion about what I meant; completely ignoring myself, Ftr, And Apd as he
>> did so.
>>
>> He's literally doing the same thing here, practially following the same
>> script.
>>
>
>Indeed.
>According to SC, snit's been playing the same game for 20 years.
>OMG, how sick is that?
>Snit has literally wasted a 1/4 of his life trolling.

You'd think he'd be better at it by now.

I'm sure he's doing his best, though.

On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
> news:8cUzM.460099$mPI2.342948@fx15.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT in
> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>
>>>>Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>
>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>>
>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>
>> I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny
>> little poser. As soon as David no longer needs snit, he will throw him
>> under the bus, The one caveat is why would David need snit?
>> Nobody else seems to.
>
> Snit and I aren't 'friends'; it's for that reason Snit is of use to him. No,
> I'm not BSing in the least little bit. It's a known pattern with David
> Brooks. He used pcbutts for the same purpose, and contrary to what he claims
> now, he did claim pcbutts was a friend, just like he claims snit is, until
> pcbutts was of no further use to him.
>
> You can fact check me, by reviewing alt.comp.freeware and alt.comp.virus.
> It's two places where pcbutts was doing his thing, and David was supporting
> him, just like he supports snit here.
>
> How many posts in this thread alone has David tried to back snit, despite
> the fact, Snit was wrong concerning the subject? Not only tried to back him,
> but continued to attack me as he did so.
>
That does make sense. It seems they are both using each other for their own purpose. I have no
reason to fact check you as you seem truthful in your posts.

--
Charlie Glock
"To conquer a nation, first disarm it's citizens"
-- Adolf Hitler

On 2023-08-07, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
> On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com>
>> news:8cUzM.460099$mPI2.342948@fx15.iad Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:24:20 GMT in
>> alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-08-06, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>>
>>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally BSing
>>>> you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you are...
>>>>
>>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>>
>>> I'm reasonably certain that David knows full well that snit is a whiny
>>> little poser. As soon as David no longer needs snit, he will throw him
>>> under the bus, The one caveat is why would David need snit?
>>> Nobody else seems to.
>>
>> Snit and I aren't 'friends'; it's for that reason Snit is of use to him. No,
>> I'm not BSing in the least little bit. It's a known pattern with David
>> Brooks. He used pcbutts for the same purpose, and contrary to what he claims
>> now, he did claim pcbutts was a friend, just like he claims snit is, until
>> pcbutts was of no further use to him.
>>
>> You can fact check me, by reviewing alt.comp.freeware and alt.comp.virus.
>> It's two places where pcbutts was doing his thing, and David was supporting
>> him, just like he supports snit here.
>>
>> How many posts in this thread alone has David tried to back snit, despite
>> the fact, Snit was wrong concerning the subject? Not only tried to back him,
>> but continued to attack me as he did so.
>>
>
> Backing snit is like betting on a 3 legged horse in The Kentucky Derby.
> It's a sure loser.
Given the choice between betting on snit or the three legged horse, I would take the 3 legged horse
every time. Snit is basically a box of rocks.

--
Charlie Glock
"To conquer a nation, first disarm it's citizens"
-- Adolf Hitler

On 2023-08-08, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 21:35:26 -0000 (UTC), pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:ualhtk$1ob2g$2@dont-email.me Sat, 05
>>> Aug 2023 13:13:24 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:uaf5v7$gbrh$1@dont-email.me Thu,
>>>>> 03 Aug 2023 03:12:39 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was baiting snit !
>>>>>> LOL !
>>>>>
>>>>> My bad, My bad.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think my question spun his head around like Linda Blair !
>>>>>
>>>>> If it didn't, my detailed QA session concerning cloning sure as hell
>>>>> did. He doesn't know which was is up or down. But, naturally, instead
>>>>> of admit he was wrong, he'll convert it to opinions so that he can
>>>>> "agree to disagree" with everyone who wrote about the subject, all
>>>>> without, having to admit he was wrong when he jumped the gun and
>>>>> mistakenly assumed I didn't know what cloning was until Snit arrived.
>>>>> That's really what he wanted people to think!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Snit's gone off the rails. His behavior as of late, has become quite
>>>> loony. I hope he gets his medication dosage adjusted because something
>>>> has gone amok.
>>>
>>> He's doing the same thing with that discussion that he did when he was asked
>>> about the floodbot story. At no point did he ever admit he'd done anything
>>> wrong. All the time, he continued to partially quote me and provide his
>>> opinion about what I meant; completely ignoring myself, Ftr, And Apd as he
>>> did so.
>>>
>>> He's literally doing the same thing here, practially following the same
>>> script.
>>>
>>
>>Indeed.
>>According to SC, snit's been playing the same game for 20 years.
>>OMG, how sick is that?
>>Snit has literally wasted a 1/4 of his life trolling.
>
> You'd think he'd be better at it by now.
>
> I'm sure he's doing his best, though.
>
Snit's a slow learner.
A REAL SLOW LEARNER.

--
Charlie Glock
"To conquer a nation, first disarm it's citizens"
-- Adolf Hitler

On 2023-08-08, Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com> wrote:
> On 2023-08-08, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 21:35:26 -0000 (UTC), pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:ualhtk$1ob2g$2@dont-email.me Sat, 05
>>>> Aug 2023 13:13:24 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-08-05, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> news:uaf5v7$gbrh$1@dont-email.me Thu,
>>>>>> 03 Aug 2023 03:12:39 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was baiting snit !
>>>>>>> LOL !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My bad, My bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think my question spun his head around like Linda Blair !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it didn't, my detailed QA session concerning cloning sure as hell
>>>>>> did. He doesn't know which was is up or down. But, naturally, instead
>>>>>> of admit he was wrong, he'll convert it to opinions so that he can
>>>>>> "agree to disagree" with everyone who wrote about the subject, all
>>>>>> without, having to admit he was wrong when he jumped the gun and
>>>>>> mistakenly assumed I didn't know what cloning was until Snit arrived.
>>>>>> That's really what he wanted people to think!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Snit's gone off the rails. His behavior as of late, has become quite
>>>>> loony. I hope he gets his medication dosage adjusted because something
>>>>> has gone amok.
>>>>
>>>> He's doing the same thing with that discussion that he did when he was asked
>>>> about the floodbot story. At no point did he ever admit he'd done anything
>>>> wrong. All the time, he continued to partially quote me and provide his
>>>> opinion about what I meant; completely ignoring myself, Ftr, And Apd as he
>>>> did so.
>>>>
>>>> He's literally doing the same thing here, practially following the same
>>>> script.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Indeed.
>>>According to SC, snit's been playing the same game for 20 years.
>>>OMG, how sick is that?
>>>Snit has literally wasted a 1/4 of his life trolling.
>>
>> You'd think he'd be better at it by now.
>>
>> I'm sure he's doing his best, though.
>>
> Snit's a slow learner.
> A REAL SLOW LEARNER.
>

Most mentally retarded people are.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
> Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
> news:uar4oq$2u04t$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org Mon, 07 Aug 2023
> 16:05:46 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
>>><sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38
>>>>>>>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over
>>>>>>>> on me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it
>>>>>>>> nice to read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting
>>>>>>>> - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to
>>>>>>>> say about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh,
>>>>>>>> old bean.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your
>>>>>>> thoughts to the thread here:-
>>>>>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gremlin:
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>>>> duplicate one.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY,
>>>>>> where a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is
>>>>>> the same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened
>>>>>> and changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>>>> changes to the original.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>>>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>>>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I
>>>>>> do not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new,
>>>>>> which it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>>>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>>>>> that, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and
>>>>>> went into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>>>
>>>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>>
>>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally
>>>> BSing you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you
>>>> are...
>>>>
>>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>>
>>> I quoted Gremlin.
>>
>> I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
>> (despite your babbling about "marketing"):
>>
>> "Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
>> poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
>> then it changes later."
>>
>> And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:
>>
>> "Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
>> case you change your mind for a period of time?"
>>
>> Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:
>>
>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>> understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
>> in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."
>>
>> You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".
>>
>> Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:
>>
>> "Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
>> GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
>> only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
>> you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
>> things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
>> make space. Does not explain why things take time though."
>>
>> Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
>> subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
>> copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
>> determined:
>>
>> "If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
>> complete copy."
>>
>> And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
>> "Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
>> correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
>> yet to make your 'sale').
>>
>> To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
>> "Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."
>>
>> IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
>> that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
>> timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
>> sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
>> aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
>> you they aren't.
>>
>> I suggest you "note" FTR's comment about a language barrier and the use
>> of the term "Copy-On-Write" as mentioned by FTR and seen in the video he
>> linked to. Why? The best answer to that is to use what you tried to use
>> on Gremlin...
>>
>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>> understand that" there are technical terms delineating "copy" from
>> "Copy-On-Write" (and Redirect-On_Write), a thing that Gremlin appears to
>> have delineated... a thing you failed to delineate... as well as failing
>> to initially point out you were 'copying' to what you had to
>> subsequently add in order to make your 'sales' attempt: "the same
>> volume".
>>
>>> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.
>>
>> Same issue, that video "showed" you used the term "copy" when you should
>> have used the term "Copy-On-Write" and any "moderately technical reader"
>> would agree with that... were he/she "honest and honorable" about
>> 'talking tech'. FTR has stated that Gremlin knows about this, so what's
>> next for your 'sales pitch'?
>>
>>> It is not like I was wrong.
>>
>> You did what you've often done, used laymen terms *as* you tried to
>> 'sell' the idea that it's your 'opponent' who isn't a "moderately
>> technical reader" and not *you*, Mr. Dishonest Hypocrite.
>>
>>> He still jumped in to attack and insist I was wrong
>>> about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>>
>> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
>> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
>> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
>> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".
>
> Haha!
>
> Go Steve! :)

On 2023-08-09, Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none> wrote:
> On 2023-08-07, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
>> Steve Carroll <"Steve Carroll"@noSPAM.none>
>> news:uar4oq$2u04t$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org Mon, 07 Aug 2023
>> 16:05:46 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-08-06, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Aug 6, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
>>>><sfsvcipulpmp0od7lre4icqi66o7tc1ff4@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:18:27 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <David.B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/08/2023 05:30, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2023 at 6:52:46 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <PuszM.46305$O8ab.22981@fx40.iad>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 05/08/2023 10:26, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks <David.B@nomail.afraid.org>
>>>>>>>>> news:_rSyM.473125$TPw2.189493@fx17.iad Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:35:38
>>>>>>>>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2023 03:23, Gremlin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It's always teasing with you when you get called out for doing
>>>>>>>>>>> very dishonest shit towards someone else. I don't recall you
>>>>>>>>>>> admitting you were trolling me or anyone else previously though.
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please enter the fray on the ASC forum and let the gurus there
>>>>>>>>>> school you. If you dare!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know some of the individuals who make use of that forum. Some of
>>>>>>>>> them are gurus, many are not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *WHICH* posting names do you know on the ASC forums, Gremlin?
>>>>>>>> Are such folk misusing the forums for malicious purposes ....
>>>>>>>> or actually trying to help folk?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More are like Snit than they are like me, if that helps
>>>>>>>>> you. I'll play along though, it beats well, you know. What do you
>>>>>>>>> think they will be schooling me in?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Honesty? Accuracy?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I only ask this because you incorrectly thought Snit got one over
>>>>>>>>> on me. You were confident, in fact, that he'd done so. Isn't it
>>>>>>>>> nice to read from some of the others who post here with technical
>>>>>>>>> backgrounds have all backed up what I wrote, while, not supporting
>>>>>>>>> - as in telling him that he's wrong - Snit. What do you have to
>>>>>>>>> say about that David? It didn't turn out as you expected, eh,
>>>>>>>>> old bean.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not yet convinced that Snit *WAS* wrong. Please add your
>>>>>>>> thoughts to the thread here:-
>>>>>>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255032853
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What posting 'nym will you use?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FWIW, the thread has NO input from me; none at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gremlin:
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> So you don't realize he isn't making sense? I'll make this
>>>>>>> easy for you. How would a system let you think you copied
>>>>>>> a file from point a to point b, but somehow, the copy in
>>>>>>> point b is actually just the differences between the
>>>>>>> copies, except that there aren't any differences between
>>>>>>> them until you make a change to the original or the
>>>>>>> duplicate one.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> None of this makes sense. Gremlin confused the idea of the COPY,
>>>>>>> where a new file is shown in the Finder but, in the background it is
>>>>>>> the same data, with what happens when one of those files is opened
>>>>>>> and changed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Is he making any sense to you there, David? your copied
>>>>>>> file isn't really a copy, it's an incremental backup (only
>>>>>>> the changes) of the original; except that well, you issued
>>>>>>> a file copy command, you didn't modify the file as it was
>>>>>>> being copied. So, how is it just copying over changes you
>>>>>>> havent even made yet?
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> What changes? What is he talking about? None of that is coherent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> If I copy file a from location one to location two; it
>>>>>>> should be a complete copy.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> It APPEARS to be a "complete copy" in the Finder (or other file
>>>>>>> browser) but it is not actually a true or complete copy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> It can't track differences and
>>>>>>> just save those yet, I haven't gone back and made any
>>>>>>> changes to the original.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> What changes does he mean? What is he talking about. This is
>>>>>>> incoherent nonsense. I am guessing in my text somewhere I referenced
>>>>>>> file changes being tracked... and he thought I meant on creation? I
>>>>>>> do not know... but his comment is gibberish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> You seem confused here, Snit, but, I'm always interested
>>>>>>> in learning something new. So, which file systems
>>>>>>> specifically are doing this on file copy commands?
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> I told him I was speaking of APFS... and Gremlin went into lala land
>>>>>>> of APFS being the first... and when I noted APFS is fairly new,
>>>>>>> which it is compared to other natural file systems to compare it to
>>>>>>> (HFS/HFS+ and NTFS... maybe even FAT32/64) he could not understand
>>>>>>> that, either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be one thing if he asked... but he just flipped out and
>>>>>>> went into nonsense lala land. As he does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He simply didn't listen. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor did he comment on the video clip you kindly shared.
>>>>>
>>>>> David...dude...you STILL haven't figured out that Snit is totally
>>>>> BSing you? You're living in an alternate reality. The two of you
>>>>> are...
>>>>>
>>>>> Snit is wrong. Period.
>>>>
>>>> I quoted Gremlin.
>>>
>>> I'll quote you making your admission that JD was right about reporting
>>> (despite your babbling about "marketing"):
>>>
>>> "Very much marketing... but with that said, Apple does report free space
>>> poorly. I can delete gigs of data and it does not change anything. But
>>> then it changes later."
>>>
>>> And here's Gremlin's reply, a logical question given the limited info:
>>>
>>> "Are you actually deleting then, or is it being sent to temp storage in
>>> case you change your mind for a period of time?"
>>>
>>> Notably, you then shot back 'the way you often do', with:
>>>
>>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>>> understand that they are not just being put in the Trash (or Recycle Bin
>>> in Windows terms) but that this is being emptied."
>>>
>>> You've clearly suggested he's not even a "moderately technical reader".
>>>
>>> Equally 'notable', elsewhere you wrote:
>>>
>>> "Some of this comes from the new(er) file system where if you have a 10
>>> GB file and you copy it, in the background it is not really copied. The
>>> only thing saved in the new file are changes you make. But this means if
>>> you delete either 10 GB file you do not free 10 GB of space. It makes
>>> things more efficient but can be confusing when clearing out files to
>>> make space. Does not explain why things take time though."
>>>
>>> Let's "note" what you *didn't* say there, that you felt compelled to
>>> subsequently add when Gremlin correctly "noted" circumstances for
>>> copying a file in certain instances, instances that *hadn't* yet been
>>> determined:
>>>
>>> "If I copy file a from location one to location two; it should be a
>>> complete copy."
>>>
>>> And, of course, if one understand the difference between "copy" and
>>> "Copy-On-Write", as also "noted" below, that statement is factually
>>> correct in some circumstances (you know, the thing you *hadn't* covered
>>> yet to make your 'sale').
>>>
>>> To that, you subsequently felt compelled to add what I 'noted' above:
>>> "Assuming the same volume, that is not the case with APFS."
>>>
>>> IOW, all this bluster of yours, where you're trying to 'sell' the idea
>>> that he's not even a "moderately technical reader", is based on a
>>> timeline context that you're trying to take advantage of to 'make the
>>> sale'... but people aren't as stupid as you need them to be, they just
>>> aren't. For some reason, you struggle with this despite how many "show"
>>> you they aren't.
>>>
>>> I suggest you "note" FTR's comment about a language barrier and the use
>>> of the term "Copy-On-Write" as mentioned by FTR and seen in the video he
>>> linked to. Why? The best answer to that is to use what you tried to use
>>> on Gremlin...
>>>
>>> "Sorry: would have expected any moderately technical reader to
>>> understand that" there are technical terms delineating "copy" from
>>> "Copy-On-Write" (and Redirect-On_Write), a thing that Gremlin appears to
>>> have delineated... a thing you failed to delineate... as well as failing
>>> to initially point out you were 'copying' to what you had to
>>> subsequently add in order to make your 'sales' attempt: "the same
>>> volume".
>>>
>>>> And I showed a video which backs what I was saying.
>>>
>>> Same issue, that video "showed" you used the term "copy" when you should
>>> have used the term "Copy-On-Write" and any "moderately technical reader"
>>> would agree with that... were he/she "honest and honorable" about
>>> 'talking tech'. FTR has stated that Gremlin knows about this, so what's
>>> next for your 'sales pitch'?
>>>
>>>> It is not like I was wrong.
>>>
>>> You did what you've often done, used laymen terms *as* you tried to
>>> 'sell' the idea that it's your 'opponent' who isn't a "moderately
>>> technical reader" and not *you*, Mr. Dishonest Hypocrite.
>>>
>>>> He still jumped in to attack and insist I was wrong
>>>> about a copied file not being a "complete copy", as he said it.
>>>
>>> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
>>> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
>>> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
>>> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".
>>
>> Haha!
>>
>> Go Steve! :)
>
> I'm sure you've noticed that Glasser's 'blackout' of several of us is
> bogus (made in bad faith). Why do you think he started it?
>

On 2023-08-09, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

>>>> BTW, did you happen to notice when FTR told you that you were "wrong"
>>>> about Gremlin being "lost", he used the phrase " actual new complete
>>>> file"? Words have meaning for a reason and they're even more important
>>>> in 'tech talking', Mr. "moderately technical reader".
>>>
>>> Haha!
>>>
>>> Go Steve! :)
>>
>> I'm sure you've noticed that Glasser's 'blackout' of several of us is
>> bogus (made in bad faith). Why do you think he started it?
>>
>
> I suspect it's because he was completely cornered due to his lack of
> technical knowledge and incorrect explanation that he gave in the file
> copy thread. He will never admit he was wrong. He's hoping when he
> returns it will be forgotten and he can start up a fresh circus.

Doesn't the ground need to be soft enough to pound tent stakes into?