In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 02:12:09 -0600, AllanH
<nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote:

>On 11/28/2023 1:54 AM, AllanH wrote:
>> On 11/27/2023 4:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>
>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>> browsers.
>>>>
>>>> And it did.
>>>>
>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>
>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>
>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS).  Could the OS make a difference,
>>> could Home vs. Pro?

According to what follows that Allan has found, it's not the OS. Still
have to resolve what Paul posted. Does that win7 was Premium mean it
was 64-bit?

>> My original OS was Win8.1 (64-bit). I upgraded to Win10 over a year ago.
>> FreeCommander's 32-bit version is limited with 64-bit versions of
>> Windows, according to this.
>>
>> https://freecommander.com/en/faq-freecommander/#using-32-on-64

Aha. Just what I've been saying.

>There are solutions to those problems on this page.
>
>https://freecommander.com/en/version-summary/

For people who have not gone to the link:

FreeCommander XE on Windows X64
The actual version of FreeCommander XE is a 32 bit program. For this
reason FreeCommander is (like all 32 bit programs on Windows X64)
subject to the following restrictions:

----ALL, it says! My emphasis. ----

32 bit programs (e.g. FreeCommander) have not full access to the
control panel.
In the context menu, entries of 64 bit programs will not be visible.
The folder “%windir%\system32” and its sub folders show different
contents under 32 bit programs (e.g. FreeCommander).

Notes: %windir% is a system variable that points to the Windows
installation folder – often: c:\Windows
32 bit programs are redirected from “%windir%\system32” to
“%windir%\SysWOW64” automatically.

For more detailed information see: Microsoft: File system Redirector

----At the webpage, these last 4 words are a link, maybe the same one
Paul posted. Or at least the same information.
>
>I don't remember seeing those solutions when I was using the 32-bit version.

It's sort of impressive that they post solutions at all, since they'd
really prefer you buy the 64-bit version. OTOH, even if you won't rely
on believing they are generous, I'm sure their own programmers looked
into it and when they found these solutions, they wanted to share them.

I didn't fully understand the solutions. I understood the context menu
part and it's complicaed, but it seemed solving the file missing from
the list part was also complicated and had to be done one file at a
time. Maybe if you only ever need one file, someone would do that, but
it seems like buying Free Commander for 64 bits, or using another FM is
what everyone would do.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:49:17 +0100, "Carlos
E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-11-27 23:47, micky wrote:
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>
>>>>> which one?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>
>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>
>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>> particular file browser.
>>
>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>
>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>> browsers.
>>
>> And it did.
>>
>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>
>I don't have a Windows machine at this location.

You are forgiven.
>
>Anyway, Andy did post the explanation of the mystery, and now it makes
>sense, sort of.

But almost everyone will be like me. They don't know anything about
redirection. If he's using a 32-big file manager because it has
features others don't (including the built-in File Explorer) or he's not
willing to pay for a newer one, or just hasn't gotten around to doing
that, he'll think the file is not there when it is. He'll run around in
circles like I did for a while. Most people don't use newsgroups for
help, or even webpages, and their friends know little more than they do,
especially this obscure stuff.

On 11/28/23 3:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 06:10, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 11/27/23 8:20 PM, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:16:16 -0600, AllanH <nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> micky wrote:
>
>>> This one did not find it for me either, not the file or the etc
>>> directory.   This was not one I'd used before.  That was called
>>> somethingelse-commander.
>>
>> Midnight commander?  Linux, but supposedly windows too.  Long ago there
>> was a similar but better DOS thing (BEFORE Norton), but I can't remember
>> its name.
>
> Xtree?

Could be, but it looked like MC rather than a 'tree' display. XTree
sounded familiar, though. I hunted for a while but couldn't find
anything that stood out.

--
Cheers, Bev
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

micky wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Andy did post the explanation of the mystery, and now it makes
>> sense, sort of.
>
> But almost everyone will be like me. They don't know anything about
> redirection.

64 bit windows doesn't like pesky 32 bit programs looking at the
workings of the engine, so when you lift the hood "C:\Windows\system32"
you see "C:\windows\SYSwow64" instead which looks a lot like an engine
as you expect.

In reality, it's like a VW Bug and those in the know will look in the
trunk "C:\Windows\SYSnative" and the real engine is there

> If he's using a 32-big file manager because it has
> features others don't

I don't need to use a 3rd party file explorer at all, was just doing so
to see why you thought the hosts file wasn't accessible!

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:49:17 +0100, "Carlos
> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 2023-11-27 23:47, micky wrote:
[...]
> >> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
> >
> >I don't have a Windows machine at this location.
>
> You are forgiven.
> >
> >Anyway, Andy did post the explanation of the mystery, and now it makes
> >sense, sort of.
>
> But almost everyone will be like me. They don't know anything about
> redirection. If he's using a 32-big file manager because it has
> features others don't (including the built-in File Explorer) or he's not
> willing to pay for a newer one, or just hasn't gotten around to doing
> that, he'll think the file is not there when it is. He'll run around in
> circles like I did for a while. Most people don't use newsgroups for
> help, or even webpages, and their friends know little more than they do,
> especially this obscure stuff.

Well, if one is using third-party software and that gives unexpected
results, one should always try the native software for comparison and
see what that shows. And if the native software shows the expected
result, but the third-party software doesn't, one contacts the support
channel of the third-party (or abandons their software or whatever).

Elementary, dear Watson!

On 2023-11-28 16:58, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/28/23 3:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 06:10, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 11/27/23 8:20 PM, micky wrote:
>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:16:16 -0600,
>>>> AllanH <nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>
>>>> This one did not find it for me either, not the file or the etc
>>>> directory.   This was not one I'd used before.  That was called
>>>> somethingelse-commander.
>>>
>>> Midnight commander?  Linux, but supposedly windows too.  Long ago
>>> there was a similar but better DOS thing (BEFORE Norton), but I can't
>>> remember its name.
>>
>> Xtree?
>
> Could be, but it looked like MC rather than a 'tree' display.  XTree
> sounded familiar, though.  I hunted for a while but couldn't find
> anything that stood out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTree

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/28/23 09:12, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:05:52 -0800, The Real
> Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/23 9:10 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> Midnight commander?
>
> I think it was Total Commander, but Midnight Commander must be a fine
> fellow, who solves crimes with his wit and super-powers.
<snip>

Midnight Commander, from what I understand, is a modern open-source file
manager inspired by Norton Commander.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 11/28/2023 2:48 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>>      https://i.postimg.cc/wT4Lycqs/bar-bet-2243.gif
>
> Win7 32bit or 64bit?

Only "Program Files" shows in the display of C: in the picture.
There is no "Program Files (x86)" which warns of a 64-bit OS.

The title bar of the virtualbox window is labeled W732,
because at the current time, the RAM Drive has a
W764 project and a W732 on it. And I've loaded the correct one.

Unfortunately, Microsofts ability to label goods properly, is
limited. This is why the picture is littered with "hints".
I am forced to resort to "hints", when the application that
should spell it out in English (winver.exe) fails to do so.

Paul

On 11/28/23 8:53 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 16:58, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 11/28/23 3:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-28 06:10, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 11/27/23 8:20 PM, micky wrote:
>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:16:16 -0600,
>>>>> AllanH <nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This one did not find it for me either, not the file or the etc
>>>>> directory.   This was not one I'd used before.  That was called
>>>>> somethingelse-commander.
>>>>
>>>> Midnight commander?  Linux, but supposedly windows too.  Long ago
>>>> there was a similar but better DOS thing (BEFORE Norton), but I can't
>>>> remember its name.
>>>
>>> Xtree?
>>
>> Could be, but it looked like MC rather than a 'tree' display.  XTree
>> sounded familiar, though.  I hunted for a while but couldn't find
>> anything that stood out.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTree

I'm pretty sure that's not it, especially since it cost $40. I just
used free stuff then -- except for Ventura Publisher. I really coveted
that, but there was no way the company was going to buy it for me so I
could make pretty proposals. Marketing, fortunately, had an unlimited
budget so I traded some juicy corporate gossip for a copy. Something
like 10 floppy disks, and to save your work to a floppy you had to
export it using the VP facility.

Looking back, it was needlessly complex and painful to use. I switched
to Word Perfect when it became capable of producing proportional-font
text on a dot-matrix printer. Not fast, of course...

There was a big fat book with a disk of MSDOS utilities. I still have a
copy, even though I haven't looked at it for decades and am not sure
where it is. It was a better DOS manual than the DOS manual itself.

--
Cheers, Bev
No lawyering. Prosecutors will be violated.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 28 Nov 2023 16:45:59 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:49:17 +0100, "Carlos
>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2023-11-27 23:47, micky wrote:
>[...]
>> >> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>> >
>> >I don't have a Windows machine at this location.
>>
>> You are forgiven.
>> >
>> >Anyway, Andy did post the explanation of the mystery, and now it makes
>> >sense, sort of.
>>
>> But almost everyone will be like me. They don't know anything about
>> redirection. If he's using a 32-big file manager because it has
>> features others don't (including the built-in File Explorer) or he's not
>> willing to pay for a newer one, or just hasn't gotten around to doing
>> that, he'll think the file is not there when it is. He'll run around in
>> circles like I did for a while. Most people don't use newsgroups for
>> help, or even webpages, and their friends know little more than they do,
>> especially this obscure stuff.
>
> Well, if one is using third-party software and that gives unexpected
>results, one should always try the native software for comparison and

Well that's what I did. But I don't think everyone else will think of
that, even if it's sort of obvious. And sometimes not finding it
wouldn't really be unexpected. ONe coudl be unsure of the name or the
folder, so one could fail to look further, because he assumes he has the
wrong name for a file, it never got installed, it got deleted or its
name fouled up the last time windows crashed.

Interestingly, my phone has never crashed afaik but one day years ago 2
or 3 contact list entries got fouled up. My brother's entry name
changed from David to David X Qdwzcdcwszw, and my friend Arthur became
Arthurx3cu0z, where z is not an English letter!. I'm the only one who
sees them so I haven't tried to fix it.

>see what that shows. And if the native software shows the expected
>result, but the third-party software doesn't, one contacts the support
>channel of the third-party (or abandons their software or whatever).

But here I dont' follow your plan. I still use PowerDesk all the time,
because I like it so much. Only if I were to find a file missing would
I got to Fire Explorer.

> Elementary, dear Watson!

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
<nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>
>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>> particular file browser.
>>>
>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>
>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>> browsers.
>>>
>>> And it did.
>>>
>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>
>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>
>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>
>
>Win7 test was Home Premium x86.

So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!

The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.

I'm doubling the prize.

> Paul

micky wrote:
[..snip..]
> Interestingly, my phone has never crashed afaik but one day years ago 2
> or 3 contact list entries got fouled up. My brother's entry name
> changed from David to David X Qdwzcdcwszw, and my friend Arthur became
> Arthurx3cu0z, where z is not an English letter!.

Errrm, what? "z" is not an English letter? Tell more.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:44:21 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
><nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>
>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>> browsers.
>>>>
>>>> And it did.
>>>>
>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>
>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>
>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>>
>>
>>Win7 test was Home Premium x86.
>
>So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>
>The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>
>I'm doubling the prize.

I'm not sure what the challenge actually is, but here's what I just did.

I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
expected.

Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
is there, as expected.

Was that the challenge?

micky wrote:

> So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
> The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
> I'm doubling the prize.

Don't you believe that I saw the same "lack of hosts file in the
expected place" as you did?

On 11/29/2023 12:18 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:44:21 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
>> <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it did.
>>>>>
>>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>>
>>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>>>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Win7 test was Home Premium x86.
>>
>> So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>>
>> The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>>
>> I'm doubling the prize.
>
> I'm not sure what the challenge actually is, but here's what I just did.
>
> I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
> expected.
>
> Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
> FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
> is there, as expected.
>
> Was that the challenge?
>

This is the picture I made.

https://i.postimg.cc/wT4Lycqs/bar-bet-2243.gif

And this is a test a few minutes ago, with FreeCommander XE 32-bit on Win7 64-bit.
I'm shown the contents of SysWOW64, rather than System32, when I navigate System32 with FreeCommander.

https://i.postimg.cc/bNmcngzT/bar-bet-2243a.gif

And the results line up with the shenanigans Andy found.

For fun, I wrote a small program, and compiled in MINGW32 and this
should be similar to developing for 32-bit FreeCommander.

And when I run the program and use "getopenfilename()", the same
thing happens. I access system32\drivers and I'm instead given
the contents of sysWOW64\drivers which has no etc and etc\HOSTS.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/dVhzkSqK/getopenfilename.gif

Paul

On 11/29/2023 3:29 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 11/29/2023 12:18 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:44:21 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
>>> <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>>>>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Win7 test was Home Premium x86.
>>>
>>> So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>>>
>>> The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>>>
>>> I'm doubling the prize.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the challenge actually is, but here's what I just did.
>>
>> I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
>> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
>> expected.
>>
>> Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
>> FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
>> is there, as expected.
>>
>> Was that the challenge?
>>
>
> This is the picture I made.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/wT4Lycqs/bar-bet-2243.gif
>
> And this is a test a few minutes ago, with FreeCommander XE 32-bit on Win7 64-bit.
> I'm shown the contents of SysWOW64, rather than System32, when I navigate System32 with FreeCommander.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/bNmcngzT/bar-bet-2243a.gif
>
> And the results line up with the shenanigans Andy found.
>
> For fun, I wrote a small program, and compiled in MINGW32 and this
> should be similar to developing for 32-bit FreeCommander.
>
> And when I run the program and use "getopenfilename()", the same
> thing happens. I access system32\drivers and I'm instead given
> the contents of sysWOW64\drivers which has no etc and etc\HOSTS.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/dVhzkSqK/getopenfilename.gif
>
> Paul
>

And it's not a file system feature.

Only the currently booted OS works that way.
A second partition which is not booted at the moment,
the HOSTS file is accessible.

And this is for a x32 program on an x64 OS.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/vmfBCxYg/access-HOSTS-foreign-partition.gif

Paul

On 11/29/2023 3:29 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 11/29/2023 12:18 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:44:21 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
>>> <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>>>>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Win7 test was Home Premium x86.
>>>
>>> So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>>>
>>> The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>>>
>>> I'm doubling the prize.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the challenge actually is, but here's what I just did.
>>
>> I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
>> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
>> expected.
>>
>> Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
>> FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
>> is there, as expected.
>>
>> Was that the challenge?
>>
>
> This is the picture I made.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/wT4Lycqs/bar-bet-2243.gif
>
> And this is a test a few minutes ago, with FreeCommander XE 32-bit on Win7 64-bit.
> I'm shown the contents of SysWOW64, rather than System32, when I navigate System32 with FreeCommander.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/bNmcngzT/bar-bet-2243a.gif
>
> And the results line up with the shenanigans Andy found.
>
> For fun, I wrote a small program, and compiled in MINGW32 and this
> should be similar to developing for 32-bit FreeCommander.
>
> And when I run the program and use "getopenfilename()", the same
> thing happens. I access system32\drivers and I'm instead given
> the contents of sysWOW64\drivers which has no etc and etc\HOSTS.
>
> [Picture]
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/dVhzkSqK/getopenfilename.gif
>
> Paul
>

And it's not a file system feature.

Only the currently booted OS works that way.
A second partition which is not booted at the moment,
the HOSTS file is accessible.

And this is for a x32 program on an x64 OS.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/vmfBCxYg/access-HOSTS-foreign-partition.gif

Paul

Char Jackson wrote:

> I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
> expected.
>
> Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
> FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
> is there, as expected.

I used Win11 (obviously has to be 64bit) and the hosts file was not there.

So the question is, why *was* it there for you, when the smoke and
mirrors ought not to work, and do not work for myself and Paul?

Have you symlinked any of the system32/syswow64/sysnative folders?

On 11/28/23 18:51, Frank Miller wrote:
> micky wrote:
> [..snip..]
>> Interestingly, my phone has never crashed afaik but one day years ago 2
>> or 3 contact list entries got fouled up. My brother's entry name
>> changed from David to David X Qdwzcdcwszw, and my friend Arthur became
>> Arthurx3cu0z, where z is not an English letter!.
>
> Errrm, what? "z" is not an English letter? Tell more.

I'm guessing they mean "Unicode look-alike".
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 13:22:06 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>Char Jackson wrote:
>
>> I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
>> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
>> expected.
>>
>> Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
>> FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
>> is there, as expected.
>
>I used Win11 (obviously has to be 64bit) and the hosts file was not there.

Was that the only file missing from etc? Was the whole etc folder missing? Dumb
question, but were you looking at the right path?

C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc

>So the question is, why *was* it there for you, when the smoke and
>mirrors ought not to work, and do not work for myself and Paul?
>
>Have you symlinked any of the system32/syswow64/sysnative folders?

No, nothing like that. Is that part of the challenge?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 29 Nov 2023 01:51:50 +0100, Frank
Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>[..snip..]
>> Interestingly, my phone has never crashed afaik but one day years ago 2
>> or 3 contact list entries got fouled up. My brother's entry name
>> changed from David to David X Qdwzcdcwszw, and my friend Arthur became
>> Arthurx3cu0z, where z is not an English letter!.
>
>Errrm, what? "z" is not an English letter? Tell more.

Let me rephrase... where z represents a letter not in the English
alphabet. I don't know how to reproduce it here.

I would have used x, which seems to be the letter linguists use when
they don't have a parallel letter in the language they are writing in,
but x was actually there, right after Arthur.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 13:53:06 -0500, Paul
<nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 11/28/2023 2:48 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>>      https://i.postimg.cc/wT4Lycqs/bar-bet-2243.gif
>>
>> Win7 32bit or 64bit?
>
>Only "Program Files" shows in the display of C: in the picture.
>There is no "Program Files (x86)" which warns of a 64-bit OS.

True I could have figured it out but I dind't even think to look for
such a hint.
>
>The title bar of the virtualbox window is labeled W732,
>because at the current time, the RAM Drive has a
>W764 project and a W732 on it. And I've loaded the correct one.
>
>Unfortunately, Microsofts ability to label goods properly, is
>limited. This is why the picture is littered with "hints".
>I am forced to resort to "hints", when the application that
>should spell it out in English (winver.exe) fails to do so.
>
> Paul

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 23:18:20 -0600, Char
Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:44:21 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>>In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:40:05 -0500, Paul
>><nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/27/2023 5:57 PM, micky wrote:
>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:47:57 -0500, micky
>>>> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 27 Nov 2023 22:55:37 +0100, "Carlos
>>>>> E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-11-27 22:16, AllanH wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/27/2023 2:28 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will no one take the HOSTS challenge?  Use a 32-bit file manager
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which one?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IIRC, FreeCommander did not show the HOSTS file.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the page to download FreeCommander's 32-bit file manager.
>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the page to download the portable version.
>>>>>>> https://freecommander.com/en/downloads-portable/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is something that happened with a particular file browser, then
>>>>>> chances are it is not due to be 32 bit, but to some bug in that
>>>>>> particular file browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly why I tried 2 or 3 more.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise, it would happen with all 32 bit file
>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it did.
>>>>>
>>>>> More posts by 3 people and no one has accepted the HOSTS challenge!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, one of the 3 did accept,
>>>>
>>>> Plus I'm waiting for Paul's image to load. Aha, he seems to have found
>>>> it too with FreeCommander (and win7 Premium), even though Allen used it
>>>> and didn't find it (with unknown OS). Could the OS make a difference,
>>>> could Home vs. Pro?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Win7 test was Home Premium x86.
>>
>>So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>>
>>The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>>
>>I'm doubling the prize.
>
>I'm not sure what the challenge actually is, but here's what I just did.
>
>I fired up a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and used the native Explorer to go to
>C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and verified that the hosts file is there, as
>expected.
>
>Next, I downloaded and installed FreeCommander XE 2023 Build 880 32-bit. Using
>FreeCommander, I navigated to the same folder and verified that the hosts file
>is there, as expected.
>
>Was that the challenge?

Yes. You have met the challenge and you are eligible for the prize, but
your results have been challenged by the judges. They have not yet made
a decision and according to the rules of the Association, the prize
cannot be awarded until the results are final.

I feel bad about this and that you have to wait so, without using
Association money, I'm redoubling the prize.

In answer to your question elsewhere, when HOSTS is missing, the entire
etc folder is missing, not just the contents but the folder too.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 29 Nov 2023 08:03:12 +0000, Andy
Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>> So that's 32-bit and it doesn't count as a test of my question!
>> The HOSTS Challenge has still not been fulfilled.
>> I'm doubling the prize.
>
>Don't you believe that I saw the same "lack of hosts file in the
>expected place" as you did?

I certainly do.

I guess I asked two questions along the way. What happens when you do
what I do? and later, maybe only implied.. Can anyone do parallel to
what I did and see the file?

Because I had concluded and you found that page that said that no 32-bit
file manager would see it. So that created the second question above. I
don't expect to test every combination of OS and FM, but Char thinks
he's hit on one that works.

Char Jackson wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I used Win11 (obviously has to be 64bit) and the hosts file was not there.
>
> Was that the only file missing from etc? Was the whole etc folder missing?

Lots of stuff was missing from within drivers, the whole of etc for a
start, it's easier to list what *wasn't* missing, folders in brackets

[..]
[en-GB]
[en-US]
[UMDF]
17AA_LENOVO_Yoga_Slim_7_Pro_I4IHU5_82NC.MRK
afunix.sys
gm.dls
gmreadme.txt

> Dumb question, but were you looking at the right path?
> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc

Come on, give me *some* credit, I've been using that folder for 30 years
since WinNT 3.1 :-)

>> So the question is, why *was* it there for you, when the smoke and
>> mirrors ought not to work, and do not work for myself and Paul?
>>
>> Have you symlinked any of the system32/syswow64/sysnative folders?
>
> No, nothing like that. Is that part of the challenge?

No, but symlinking is mentioned (unwisely I would say) in the
freecommander help page as a way of "fixing" the folder redirection.