On Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:35:42 -0500, John B. Smith <crasso@verizon.net> wrote:

>I'm going to try to include another of her attachments, could you do
>your magic Paul?
>Apparently my tip to right click Start to get to DiscManagement paid
>off? Anyway she now see's drive D: When she attempts to copy into D:
>she gets that error message. I suggested she copy something less that
>22gig at a chunk and see if it'll go.

I like the fact that she attempted to move a file that is too big to store on
her C: drive because it immediately lets us know that she accidentally selected
her C: drive as the destination.

If she had selected a smaller file, the operation would have been successful but
the file might not have ended up on D:.

In article <2avpri5dd1jrk5eg1aiv5oh9q0l2k08jtu@4ax.com>, John B. Smith wrote...
>
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:12:37 -0000, Philip Herlihy
> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why not use Quick Assist to have a look?
> >
> >She may need to install it from the Microsoft Store, but that's easy enough.
> >She may need to weed junk files (drive properties, General, Disk Cleanup) to
> >get enough space to install it.
> >
> >Once installed, tell her to tap the Windows key and start typing QUICK ... and
> >it'll appear as an option to be clicked. She "gets" help and you "give" it -
> >you'll need to log on with a Microsoft Account to generate the necessary code.
> >She has to "allow" your access. Then click "take control", and she has to
> >approve/allow/ok that (whatever). Then you can fool around with her machine as
> >though you were in front of it.
>
> Interesting idea BUT
> I'm not allowing ANYONE to screw around on my machine, so I really
> don't feel confident enough to poke around on hers long-distance.
> She's really not a dummy like I have seemed to make her sound. She's
> very bright, and mostly bed-ridden and not into hardware. "I don't
> know what a drive bay is" she complained about my meanderings.

If you choose not to click the "take control" option, or she chooses not to
"allow" it, then you have a read-only view of her machine, and (via phone,
presumbably) could invite her to navigate the machine in front of you. It does
make like a lot easier.

You can also share screens (read-only) via Teams, etc.

--

Phil, London

On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 11:50:34 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/2/2024 9:42 AM, John B. Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:12:37 -0000, Philip Herlihy
>> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <4ekoriph5t5oi5qshi13pa9sntkce639f8@4ax.com>, John B. Smith wrote...
>>>>
>>>> My niece, on the other coast from me, bought this pc off Amazon.
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09THKWSLK/?coliid=I342C77KN21XHP&colid=3GV1V3NEYRX9O&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it
>>>>
>>>> Says she's run out of space on Windows, C: 465gig and can't figure out
>>>> how to use her drive D: She's sent me some pictures I'll try to
>>>> include them as attachments (never tried that before) That drive D
>>>> doesn't show up in Disc Management. The other pic, looks like from
>>>> FileExplorer shows bunches of drives, including D: What's going on?
>>>
>>> Why not use Quick Assist to have a look?
>>>
>>> She may need to install it from the Microsoft Store, but that's easy enough.
>>> She may need to weed junk files (drive properties, General, Disk Cleanup) to
>>> get enough space to install it.
>>>
>>> Once installed, tell her to tap the Windows key and start typing QUICK ... and
>>> it'll appear as an option to be clicked. She "gets" help and you "give" it -
>>> you'll need to log on with a Microsoft Account to generate the necessary code.
>>> She has to "allow" your access. Then click "take control", and she has to
>>> approve/allow/ok that (whatever). Then you can fool around with her machine as
>>> though you were in front of it.
>>
>> Interesting idea BUT
>> I'm not allowing ANYONE to screw around on my machine, so I really
>> don't feel confident enough to poke around on hers long-distance.
>> She's really not a dummy like I have seemed to make her sound. She's
>> very bright, and mostly bed-ridden and not into hardware. "I don't
>> know what a drive bay is" she complained about my meanderings.
>>
>
>The Amazon machine advertises Windows 11.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09THKWSLK/?coliid=I342C77KN21XHP&colid=3GV1V3NEYRX9O&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it
>
>It could look like this inside.
>
> https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/652259_432468_03_front_zoom.jpg
>
>Side view.
>
>https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/652259_432468_02_front_zoom.jpg
>
>Back view. A couple blue-tabbed USB for storage. The black-tabbed USB would be keyboard and mouse holes.
>
>https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/652259_432468_04_front_zoom.jpg
>
>The front comes off via tabs on the side. The motherboard has a
>"snout" section on it, which brings the I/O forward to poke out
>through the plastic. So when that plastic "thing" in front is
>removed, the PCB with edge-connector USBs will still be sitting
>affixed to the casing. It's hard to guess what the "bays" under
>that plastic thing can carry. Maybe a ham sandwich ? Just a guess.
>
>https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/652259_432468_01_front_zoom.jpg
>
>That particular one comes in a box labeled "HP Certified Refurbished".
>
>https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/652259_432468_05_package_zoom.jpg
>
>I can see the owner would be likely to be hanging storage off the
>front plate of the machine. The physical details of the machine,
>make it less likely a human "would ever go in there". The thing
>is like a fucking jar of pickles. Shirely it has RGB lighting ???
>I have a peg board in my workshop with more class than that.
>
>One of the machines in that product line claimed to be a
>gaming machine, and it had a 5300G in it. Um, OK. SIMS it is then.
>
>It's the usual thing. There are a lot of computers with the same
>physical packaging. Some have Intel processors. Some have AMD processors.
>The processors tend to be 65W with aluminum coolers (no heat pipes,
>limited VCore phases). Yes, it's a PC. It has a variety of video cards,
>some of which are a joke. Really, seeing the box exterior, tells you
>little, it's got a boot drive (as an NVMe), and the machine is unlikely
>to use a lot of electricity at idle. You could easily get screwed
>by paying too much for those "mystery grab bag" things. The person
>who designed that casing can go back to Art Collage. What a mess.
>
>This must be why the HP site refused to show pictures of it and had text instead.
>
>*******
>
>The "Computer Management" picture has a scroll bar. It needs to be
>scrolled down to see the "unformatted device" hiding down there.
>
>The other photo has got to be coming from a second computer. A computer
>with more storage devices connected, but those storage devices are
>also chock-a-block with movies.
>
>So I would guess, their computer habits are to move USB storage
>devices back and forth between machines, in a struggle to find
>enough storage space for a movie collection. The USB storage
>devices show an exponential pattern, as someone keeps buying
>bigger and bigger "buckets" to ferry to the other computer.
>
>It's also possible an SD is shoved into the "3-in-1" card reader.
>And even if the price isn't right, they do make some pretty
>large SD.
>
>Virtually all of their storage purchases, would have come formatted.
>Like, with ExFAT. And they should easily be detectable.
>
> Paul

Wow,thanks for the insight. I was kind of considering the thing for a
backup computer. Not so much now. My last outage, my big monitor
problem, had me using my ancient laptop with Vista on it and I
resolved to get something better as a backup. Really don't have room
for 2nd desktop anyway.

I relayed your suggestions to my niece, haven't heard back. Sometimes
she'll 'drop out' for days or weeks. She must be using external
storage to get along. Being denied access to my internal hard drive
would drive me friggin nuts!

On 2/3/2024 12:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

>
> I disagree with what Paul suggested, regarding a temp space on C:. I've never
> seen Windows work that way when it comes to file operations, to my best
> recollection. He's probably thinking of how it sometimes works when you use a
> browser to download a file from the web, but that doesn't apply here.

I found some discussion threads of this VERY thing actually :-)
Namely, an overflow of a temporary area on C: via OneDrive activities.

C:\OneDriveTemp\S-1-5-21-4080303085-989376780-587240787-1002
<some string>.vhdx

People are finding a VHDX "Private Vault" (see icon on the thing),
complete with Bitlocker protection, in C:\OneDriveTemp\<UserSID>.
Some of those files have been huge. And the huge file clogs up C: .

One helper had the poster in the thread, delete that file,
claiming that the VHDX was temporary. Yet, it can be quite large.

The intention seems to be, judging by the security level, that
the VHDX is an extension of the storage space on OneDrive cloudserver,
and has the same quality of storage security.

That folder exists on my machine, but because I don't use OneDrive,
the file is not instantiated.

Paul

Paul wrote:
> I found some discussion threads of this VERY thing actually 🙂
> Namely, an overflow of a temporary area on C: via OneDrive activities.
>
> C:\OneDriveTemp\S-1-5-21-4080303085-989376780-587240787-1002
> <some string>.vhdx
>
> That folder exists on my machine, but because I don't use OneDrive,
> the file is not instantiated.
Same here, folder without a vhdx file, I do use onedrive, but I don't
use its backup feature, maybe that's what creates the file?

On 2/3/2024 3:17 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> I found some discussion threads of this VERY thing actually 🙂
>> Namely, an overflow of a temporary area on C: via OneDrive activities.
>>
>> C:\OneDriveTemp\S-1-5-21-4080303085-989376780-587240787-1002
>>       <some string>.vhdx
>>
>> That folder exists on my machine, but because I don't use OneDrive,
>> the file is not instantiated.
>
> Same here, folder without a vhdx file, I do use onedrive, but I don't use its backup feature, maybe that's what creates the file?
>
>
We would have to open it up and look.
Log into MSA account, get key, unlock it.

So how does this align with Home versus Pro ???
The crypto and the mounting a VHDX ? Does Home
have the gubbins for that ?

Apparently, there can be a Personal Vault in a Vault folder. C:\OneDriveTemp\Vault\<some string>.vhdx

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/the-size-of-onedrivetemp-doesnt-actually-decrease/64c7fe45-b47c-4451-a529-37e5fd9ab97b

Sure, dynamic VHDX containers grow, and we know ways to shrink such
things, but why doesn't the automation do that occasionally ?
The vault would have to be decrypted for cleaning.

So a potential part of the problem, is growth of the VHDX
(a logically temporary operation), followed by a lack
of "shrink-maintenance". The kind of maintenance Win10 Pro
would have the Hyper-V infrastructure. Maybe that is why the
helper advocated deleting it.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/hyper-v/optimize-vhd?view=windowsserver2022-ps

PS C:\> Optimize-VHD -Path c:\test\dynamic.vhdx -Mode Full

"Full scans for zero blocks and reclaims unused blocks.
(Allowable only if the virtual hard disk is mounted read-only.)"

Which means you'd need to run sdelete.exe -z drivelettermountedVHDX:
before switching to read-only.

Paul

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 14:58:13 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/3/2024 12:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>>
>> I disagree with what Paul suggested, regarding a temp space on C:. I've never
>> seen Windows work that way when it comes to file operations, to my best
>> recollection. He's probably thinking of how it sometimes works when you use a
>> browser to download a file from the web, but that doesn't apply here.
>
>I found some discussion threads of this VERY thing actually :-)
>Namely, an overflow of a temporary area on C: via OneDrive activities.

Hmm, I was hoping you'd found something about Windows creating a temp file on C:
when a user tries to copy a file from C: to D:. I still don't think that's a
thing when using File Explorer (or the earlier Windows Explorer) to copy or move
files across volumes. That would greatly increase copy/move times, (plus,
there'd be no point in doing it), and that's something that each of us would
have seen by now. The discussion below appears to be unrelated.

>C:\OneDriveTemp\S-1-5-21-4080303085-989376780-587240787-1002
> <some string>.vhdx
>
>People are finding a VHDX "Private Vault" (see icon on the thing),
>complete with Bitlocker protection, in C:\OneDriveTemp\<UserSID>.
>Some of those files have been huge. And the huge file clogs up C: .
>
>One helper had the poster in the thread, delete that file,
>claiming that the VHDX was temporary. Yet, it can be quite large.
>
>The intention seems to be, judging by the security level, that
>the VHDX is an extension of the storage space on OneDrive cloudserver,
>and has the same quality of storage security.
>
>That folder exists on my machine, but because I don't use OneDrive,
>the file is not instantiated.

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 16:56:34 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/3/2024 3:17 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> I found some discussion threads of this VERY thing actually ?
>>> Namely, an overflow of a temporary area on C: via OneDrive activities.
>>>
>>> C:\OneDriveTemp\S-1-5-21-4080303085-989376780-587240787-1002
>>>       <some string>.vhdx
>>>
>>> That folder exists on my machine, but because I don't use OneDrive,
>>> the file is not instantiated.
>>
>> Same here, folder without a vhdx file, I do use onedrive, but I don't use its backup feature, maybe that's what creates the file?
>>
>>
>We would have to open it up and look.
>Log into MSA account, get key, unlock it.
>
>So how does this align with Home versus Pro ???
>The crypto and the mounting a VHDX ? Does Home
>have the gubbins for that ?
>
>Apparently, there can be a Personal Vault in a Vault folder. C:\OneDriveTemp\Vault\<some string>.vhdx
>
>https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/the-size-of-onedrivetemp-doesnt-actually-decrease/64c7fe45-b47c-4451-a529-37e5fd9ab97b
>
>Sure, dynamic VHDX containers grow, and we know ways to shrink such
>things, but why doesn't the automation do that occasionally ?
>The vault would have to be decrypted for cleaning.
>
>So a potential part of the problem, is growth of the VHDX
>(a logically temporary operation), followed by a lack
>of "shrink-maintenance". The kind of maintenance Win10 Pro
>would have the Hyper-V infrastructure. Maybe that is why the
>helper advocated deleting it.
>
>https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/hyper-v/optimize-vhd?view=windowsserver2022-ps
>
> PS C:\> Optimize-VHD -Path c:\test\dynamic.vhdx -Mode Full
>
> "Full scans for zero blocks and reclaims unused blocks.
> (Allowable only if the virtual hard disk is mounted read-only.)"
>
>Which means you'd need to run sdelete.exe -z drivelettermountedVHDX:
>before switching to read-only.
>
> Paul

Got a reply from my niece. Looks like she's out of the woods, what
with trying to follow our suggestions and thrashing about on her own.
Apparently she also thinks her 'cloud' had something to do with her
problem. The idea of cloud storage sets my teeth on edge. ESPECIALLY
with an OS like my Win10 (which appears to try to trip me up at every
opportunity) or her Win11 which I suspect is worse. I believe an
ambitious politician could make a lot of hay by 'going to war' with
uSoft. They must have jillions of people (votes) po'd at them. And if
he got troublesome enough they could always buy him off.

I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
you guys can deduce something else from her observations.

"Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
bigger batches. It's still a mystery to me why I need to use space on
C when copying C to D, but obviously, it thinks I do.
I think I got messed up trying to use my Cloud space. I thought I
could offload and free up space on one computer, but the other
computer synced to the cloud and downloaded to Irene's (HER NEW
COMPUTER) C everything I thought I was offloading from Henry. I'm not
sure if this is going to delete it from the Cloud, but most of my
important stuff is on my external drive as well as Irene's D.
I also somehow messed up something so my Documents file contains a
Documents file and most documents are currently duplicated.
It's possible I can blame a lot of this on my how my computer guy set
up Irene."

On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 18:54:40 -0500, crasso@nycap.rr.com wrote:

>I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
>you guys can deduce something else from her observations.
>
>"Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
>suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
>batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
>to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
>bigger batches.

She's obviously doing a "Copy - Delete from Source - Empty Recycle Bin"
operation versus a single Move operation, but as long as she's comfortable,
that's fine.

>It's still a mystery to me why I need to use space on
>C when copying C to D, but obviously, it thinks I do.

I wasn't able to duplicate that here. I took a fresh Win 10 virtual machine and
placed 10 video files (about 12 to 20 GB each) on the C: drive. Next, I shrunk
the C: drive down to where it had just under 2GB of free space. I was able to
Copy or Move any of the video files without any issues. Windows didn't complain
about a lack of space because it doesn't create a temp copy of files that it's
copying or moving.

So I have no idea what she's seeing there, but I don't see it here.

>I think I got messed up trying to use my Cloud space. I thought I
>could offload and free up space on one computer, but the other
>computer synced to the cloud and downloaded to Irene's (HER NEW
>COMPUTER) C everything I thought I was offloading from Henry. I'm not
>sure if this is going to delete it from the Cloud, but most of my
>important stuff is on my external drive as well as Irene's D.
>
>I also somehow messed up something so my Documents file contains a
>Documents file and most documents are currently duplicated.
>
>It's possible I can blame a lot of this on my how my computer guy set
>up Irene."

She needs an IT administrator. :-)

On 2/3/2024 5:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

> Hmm, I was hoping you'd found something about Windows creating a temp file on C:
> when a user tries to copy a file from C: to D:. I still don't think that's a
> thing when using File Explorer (or the earlier Windows Explorer) to copy or move
> files across volumes. That would greatly increase copy/move times, (plus,
> there'd be no point in doing it), and that's something that each of us would
> have seen by now. The discussion below appears to be unrelated.

I hope I have the right picture.

https://postimg.cc/V0vr2WVG

What the individual is doing, is they have a OneDrive folder open.

Not a OneDriveTemp folder (which is an area used by the tool and not by the user).
The OneDriveTemp is insulated by a crypto personal vault, to prevent you
from breaking stuff.

So let's review the sequence.

I open

C:\Users\order\OneDrive\Music and I drop it on the D: drive (not shown)

The Music folder is not populated. It is virtual. It is empty.
C:\Users\order\OneDrive\Music is empty, at the moment.
The content is in the cloud.

Microsoft starts downloading the entire Music collection
stored in the user OneDrive Account. The download operation,
is being dumped into C:\Users\order\OneDriveTemp as a staging area.

Before the files can be copied from C:, they must be instantiated on C: .
They are held in

C:\Users\order\OneDriveTemp\<UserSID>\somestring.vhdx # Personal vault type, encrypted
# Actual Personal vaults are in OneDriveTemp\Vault

Once there, the content is decrypted (details unknown what the sequence is),
then the file is copied (finally!) to D: .

It appears the methodology has no automation for shrinking the VHDX file.

One helper on a microsoft site, suggested deleting the VHDX file.
This is certainly an easier method than decrypting the container
and carrying out VHDX shrink procedures.

I don't know if deleting it is a good idea or not. I would think,
if all I/O activity on the machine has stopped (no network LED flashing,
no HDD LED flashing, no USB stick flashing), then it might be safe
to delete that file. And have OneDrive create a new empty one.

There is a suggestion of a least two automated methods which will
clean up, one method is risky as hell, the other method is
wishful thinking. "Waiting for shit to happen" on Windows, is foolish at
best. I did the experiment, where I did not correct my drivers manually
on Windows 10, because "the automation would fix it". Well, the automation
didn't fix it. I waited months. Later they fixed it (possibly after
a version upgrade). Then in a recent installation, the drivers would not
install themselves again. Just like the original symptoms five or more years ago.

One posting I could find, which described "a doubling of disk usage",
was viewed 38000 times by visitors. Is that saying something ? Dunno.
No answer is authoritative. Having 38000 views, indicates a lot of people
see the same problem and are looking for a nice solid recipe to fix it.
Not some bullshit about "Storage Sense" and "Sparkle Ponies". Storage Sense
can delete the contents of your Downloads folder, as can the pre-cursor
cleanmgr.exe . And cleanmgr.exe would have been a perfect place to stage
a OneDrive cleaner, but... opportunity lost. It's not in there.

Paul

On 2024-02-03 06:14, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 20:14:00 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-02-02 16:35, John B. Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to try to include another of her attachments, could you do
>>> your magic Paul?
>>
>> Attachments are "prohibited" here.
>>
>> You have to upload the photos to a sharing site, and post here the link.
>
> My NSP allows attachments in this group. (Although I don't mean to encourage
> that behavior.)
>

Maybe, but they are not propagated to other servers, so for example, I
do not see them.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Same here, folder without a vhdx file, I do use onedrive, but I
>> don't use its backup feature, maybe that's what creates the file?
>
> We would have to open it up and look.
> Log into MSA account, get key, unlock it.
>
> So how does this align with Home versus Pro ???
> The crypto and the mounting a VHDX ? Does Home
> have the gubbins for that ?

Despite MS saying Home doesn't do BitLocker, it *can* do it, this
machine arrived from Lenovo with the C: drive encrypted, if I were to
disable it, I could probably not re-enable it, anyway since I don't
login using an MSA, I dumped the unlock password and saved it with my
others. The onedrive account is a paid for MS365 account.

C:\Windows\System32>manage-bde -status
BitLocker Drive Encryption: Configuration Tool version 10.0.22621
Copyright (C) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Disk volumes that can be protected with
BitLocker Drive Encryption:
Volume C: [Windows-SSD]
[OS Volume]

Size: 474.72 GB
BitLocker Version: 2.0
Conversion Status: Used Space Only Encrypted
Percentage Encrypted: 100.0%
Encryption Method: XTS-AES 128
Protection Status: Protection On
Lock Status: Unlocked
Identification Field: Unknown
Key Protectors:
TPM
Numerical Password

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 04:31:42 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2024-02-03 06:14, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 20:14:00 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-02 16:35, John B. Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm going to try to include another of her attachments, could you do
>>>> your magic Paul?
>>>
>>> Attachments are "prohibited" here.
>>>
>>> You have to upload the photos to a sharing site, and post here the link.
>>
>> My NSP allows attachments in this group. (Although I don't mean to encourage
>> that behavior.)
>>
>
>
>Maybe, but they are not propagated to other servers, so for example, I
>do not see them.

I'm under the impression that they are propagated from server to server, but
certain servers simply decide not to make them available to users of that
server. The next server down the line might choose to make them available to its
users, which it couldn't do if they weren't propagated in the first place.

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 21:03:51 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 2/3/2024 5:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>
>> Hmm, I was hoping you'd found something about Windows creating a temp file on C:
>> when a user tries to copy a file from C: to D:. I still don't think that's a
>> thing when using File Explorer (or the earlier Windows Explorer) to copy or move
>> files across volumes. That would greatly increase copy/move times, (plus,
>> there'd be no point in doing it), and that's something that each of us would
>> have seen by now. The discussion below appears to be unrelated.
>
>I hope I have the right picture.
>
> https://postimg.cc/V0vr2WVG

Yes, that's the one. I saw it when it was posted by the OP.

>What the individual is doing, is they have a OneDrive folder open.
>
>Not a OneDriveTemp folder (which is an area used by the tool and not by the user).
>The OneDriveTemp is insulated by a crypto personal vault, to prevent you
>from breaking stuff.
>
>So let's review the sequence.
>
>I open
>
> C:\Users\order\OneDrive\Music and I drop it on the D: drive (not shown)
>
>The Music folder is not populated. It is virtual. It is empty.
>C:\Users\order\OneDrive\Music is empty, at the moment.
>The content is in the cloud.

I see what you're saying, but I've never used OneDrive so I have no experience
with it. I don't think someone who wants to make space available would
intentionally select an empty folder, but they may have selected a parent
folder, right? Or it could have been selected by mistake. I hate guessing, but
here we are. This whole thread is about guessing.

Picking a random Google search result,
https://www.diskpart.com/articles/move-onedrive-from-c-drive-to-d-drive-0825.html
they don't make it look like you can move your OneDrive folder by treating it as
a normal folder.

>Microsoft starts downloading the entire Music collection
>stored in the user OneDrive Account. The download operation,
>is being dumped into C:\Users\order\OneDriveTemp as a staging area.

>Before the files can be copied from C:, they must be instantiated on C: .

Have you tested that to confirm that that's how it works? I guess it's possible,
but it doesn't seem likely because it would be such a poor design. I've been
surprised before, though.

<snip>

On 03/02/2024 15:08, John B. Smith wrote:
>
> snip <
>
> Wow,thanks for the insight. I was kind of considering the thing for a
> backup computer. Not so much now. My last outage, my big monitor
> problem, had me using my ancient laptop with Vista on it and I
> resolved to get something better as a backup. Really don't have room
> for 2nd desktop anyway.
>

If you laptop allows, give Vista 2GB of RAM & it becomes quite a good
operating system.
SODIMMs, even new ones, are quite cheap.

--
Regards
wasbit

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 18:54:40 -0500, crasso@nycap.rr.com wrote:
>
> >I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
> >you guys can deduce something else from her observations.
> >
> >"Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
> >suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
> >batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
> >to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
> >bigger batches.
>
> She's obviously doing a "Copy - Delete from Source - Empty Recycle Bin"
> operation versus a single Move operation, but as long as she's comfortable,
> that's fine.

Not that it matters much, but in Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name. It only
has 'Cut' and 'Paste', which is (IMO) kind of counter-intuitive to move
stuff from one place to another. (IMO) A rather silly thing for
Microsoft to remove this several decades old functionality.

Well, at least 'Command Prompt' (cmd.exe) still has the 'move'
command! :-)

[...]

On Sun, 04 Feb 2024 13:11:07 -0600, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> Not that it matters much, but in Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
> 10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
> has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name. It only
> has 'Cut' and 'Paste', which is (IMO) kind of counter-intuitive to move
> stuff from one place to another. (IMO) A rather silly thing for
> Microsoft to remove this several decades old functionality.
>
> Well, at least 'Command Prompt' (cmd.exe) still has the 'move'
> command! :-)
>
> [...]

Another reason to prefer the alternative File Manager I've used for years,
FreeCommander XE.

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> n Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
> 10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
> has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name.

Well you can still drag&drop a selection to a different folder, and
it'll prompt you for copy/move/shortcuts.

On 4 Feb 2024 19:11:07 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 18:54:40 -0500, crasso@nycap.rr.com wrote:
>>
>> >I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
>> >you guys can deduce something else from her observations.
>> >
>> >"Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
>> >suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
>> >batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
>> >to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
>> >bigger batches.
>>
>> She's obviously doing a "Copy - Delete from Source - Empty Recycle Bin"
>> operation versus a single Move operation, but as long as she's comfortable,
>> that's fine.
>
> Not that it matters much, but in Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
>10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
>has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name. It only
>has 'Cut' and 'Paste', which is (IMO) kind of counter-intuitive to move
>stuff from one place to another. (IMO) A rather silly thing for
>Microsoft to remove this several decades old functionality.
>
> Well, at least 'Command Prompt' (cmd.exe) still has the 'move'
>command! :-)
>
>[...]

Thanks, I didn't know that and wouldn't have noticed since I haven't used a
context menu or other GUI menu to move or copy files since the pre-XP days.

Seems like it's easy to add back the missing functionality, though.
<https://www.elevenforum.com/t/add-or-remove-copy-to-folder-and-move-to-folder-context-menu-in-windows-11.1339/>

Does Ctrl-X still work?

Frank Slootweg wrote on 2/4/24 12:11 PM:
> Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 18:54:40 -0500, crasso@nycap.rr.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
>>> you guys can deduce something else from her observations.
>>>
>>> "Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
>>> suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
>>> batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
>>> to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
>>> bigger batches.
>>
>> She's obviously doing a "Copy - Delete from Source - Empty Recycle Bin"
>> operation versus a single Move operation, but as long as she's comfortable,
>> that's fine.
>
> Not that it matters much, but in Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
> 10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
> has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name. It only
> has 'Cut' and 'Paste', which is (IMO) kind of counter-intuitive to move
> stuff from one place to another. (IMO) A rather silly thing for
> Microsoft to remove this several decades old functionality.
>
> Well, at least 'Command Prompt' (cmd.exe) still has the 'move'
> command! :-)
>
> [...]
>

Never used the toolbar Move option and only used the context menu(Move)
option once and by accident, wanted to choose the 'Copy', moused-down too
far and moved what shouldn't have been moved.
Ever since, in Windows I use the rt click method that provides the 'Move
to here' option.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2024 19:11:07 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 18:54:40 -0500, crasso@nycap.rr.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'm going to quote my niece's email, don't think she'll mind, maybe
> >> >you guys can deduce something else from her observations.
> >> >
> >> >"Thanks for all the research on this. I'm still working on your
> >> >suggestion a few emails ago and moving files from C to D in small
> >> >batches then deleting the C copies and emptying Recycle. That seems
> >> >to working and I'm slowly freeing up space on C and able to copy in
> >> >bigger batches.
> >>
> >> She's obviously doing a "Copy - Delete from Source - Empty Recycle Bin"
> >> operation versus a single Move operation, but as long as she's comfortable,
> >> that's fine.
> >
> > Not that it matters much, but in Windows 11 (while this is a Windows
> >10 group, this is about a Windows 11 system), File Explorer no longer
> >has a 'Move' function, at least not a function with that name. It only
> >has 'Cut' and 'Paste', which is (IMO) kind of counter-intuitive to move
> >stuff from one place to another. (IMO) A rather silly thing for
> >Microsoft to remove this several decades old functionality.
> >
> > Well, at least 'Command Prompt' (cmd.exe) still has the 'move'
> >command! :-)
> >
> >[...]
>
> Thanks, I didn't know that and wouldn't have noticed since I haven't used a
> context menu or other GUI menu to move or copy files since the pre-XP days.
>
> Seems like it's easy to add back the missing functionality, though.
> <https://www.elevenforum.com/t/add-or-remove-copy-to-folder-and-move-to-folder-context-menu-in-windows-11.1339/>

Yes, there's that registry edit and there's also one to re-add 'Move
to' and 'Copy to' to the main menu.

However, I try to limit the amount of 'hacking' if there's still a
somewhat resonable alternative.

> Does Ctrl-X still work?

Yes, Ctrl-X still does Cut (and Ctrl-V does Paste and Ctrl-C does
Copy).