On 07/01/24 04:42, Rich Ulrich wrote:

> Whose Basic? So far as I know, Basic never had a 'standard' so
> anyone could do what they wanted.

When our department first got a PDP-11, it came with a BASIC that I
didn't much like. DEC kindly gave me the source code so that I could add
some (rather non-standard) improvements. I gave the improved version
back to DECUS, the DEC user society.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 07/01/24 00:38, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>
> Hannah Fry (Maths Professor) has recently done a new series of The
> Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was about
> lifts (elevators) including how they get to various floors. You may
> be interested.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>
Thanks, I've forwarded this to my other computer, the one that can do
videos. My main computer has no speakers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 2024-01-06 15:08, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:45:47 AM UTC-7, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2024-01-06 09:38, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 4:44:00 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 06/01/24 12:04, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>>>> For the policy I described,
>>>> a good solution involves designed two subcircuits to calculate "maximum
>>>> requested floor" and "minimum requested floor". Then you can throw in a
>>>> couple of comparators to ... well, I won't go into the details, since
>>>> the only people likely to be interested are those who can figure it out
>>>> for themselves.
>>>
>>> (Not me, at the moment.)
>>>
>>>> A slightly more challenging problem is to work out what to do when there
>>>> are multiple lifts. I considered that to be too difficult for a
>>>> first-year student. From my observation of real buildings, it seems to
>>>> be also too difficult for the people who install multi-lift systems.
>>>
>>> (Not going to work on that one ATM either.)
>>
>> I can envision an AI solution, where not only traffic patterns are
>> analyzed, but users are recognized as well, remembering their usual
>> starting and stopping floor, dates, days of week, days of month, and
>> times spent on each floor.
>
> Also priorities: people with disabilities, emergency responders when
> no fire has been detected, the owner and their friends and family,
> teenagers who found a way to break into the system...

<chortle>

--
Circumvent (n.), the opening in the front of boxer shorts.

On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
> on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :
>> On Tuesday, lar3ryca pointed out that ...
>>> On 2024-01-02 03:44, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 02/01/2024 à 09:39, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>>>>>> young people don't say         "Bob's your uncle"
>>>>>
>>>>> Among younger folks (20 -- 40 y.o.)  in the USA  today,
>>>>> where
>>>>>              10= Commonly used       (like Cool!)
>>>>>                0=  Never heard of it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4 (?)      =   it doesn't play in Peoria
>>>>> 3 or 2    =  Kit and Caboodle
>>>>> 1  or  0    =  life of Riley
>>>>>
>>>>>     "Bob's your uncle"  in the UK must be  5 or 6 ?
>>>
>>> This Canuck has used it often.
>>
>> I think I've heard it from a 30 yo Pennsylvanian heavy equipment
>> operator and ewtewber.
>
> He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
> think he was exposed to Scooby Doo.  My kids are about the same age, and
> they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that
> recirculate, um, classic content.
>
> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
> re-runs than in first runs.

Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or
just making a noise? If the former, what word?

My first thought was that he was trying to say 'rural', which is often
mispronounce hereabouts a s'rool'.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024 22:04:36 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
>> on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :
>>> On Tuesday, lar3ryca pointed out that ...
>>>> On 2024-01-02 03:44, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 02/01/2024 à 09:39, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> young people don't say         "Bob's your uncle"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among younger folks (20 -- 40 y.o.)  in the USA  today,
>>>>>> where
>>>>>>              10= Commonly used       (like Cool!)
>>>>>>                0=  Never heard of it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4 (?)      =   it doesn't play in Peoria
>>>>>> 3 or 2    =  Kit and Caboodle
>>>>>> 1  or  0    =  life of Riley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     "Bob's your uncle"  in the UK must be  5 or 6 ?
>>>>
>>>> This Canuck has used it often.
>>>
>>> I think I've heard it from a 30 yo Pennsylvanian heavy equipment
>>> operator and ewtewber.
>>
>> He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
>> think he was exposed to Scooby Doo.  My kids are about the same age, and
>> they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that
>> recirculate, um, classic content.
>>
>> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
>> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
>> re-runs than in first runs.
>
>Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or
>just making a noise? If the former, what word?
>
>My first thought was that he was trying to say 'rural', which is often
>mispronounce hereabouts a s'rool'.

Astro was the Jetson's family dog. Smart for a dog, but didn't know
rural from urban.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:04:41 PM UTC-7, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
> > on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :

[Pennsylvanian]

> > He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
> > think he was exposed to Scooby Doo. My kids are about the same age, and
> > they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that
> > recirculate, um, classic content.
> >
> > I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
> > Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
> > re-runs than in first runs.
>
> Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or
> just making a noise? If the former, what word?
>
> My first thought was that he was trying to say 'rural', which is often
> mispronounce hereabouts a s'rool'.

"Uh-oh" in Canine, which involves a lot of initial r's. Astro often said
"Ruh-roh, Reorge," to George Jetson.

Next: "Danger, Will Robinson!"

--
Jerry Friedman

lar3ryca scribbled something on Saturday the 1/6/2024:
> On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
>> on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :
>>> On Tuesday, lar3ryca pointed out that ...
>>>> On 2024-01-02 03:44, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 02/01/2024 à 09:39, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> young people don't say         "Bob's your uncle"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among younger folks (20 -- 40 y.o.)  in the USA  today,
>>>>>> where
>>>>>>              10= Commonly used       (like Cool!)
>>>>>>                0=  Never heard of it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4 (?)      =   it doesn't play in Peoria
>>>>>> 3 or 2    =  Kit and Caboodle
>>>>>> 1  or  0    =  life of Riley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     "Bob's your uncle"  in the UK must be  5 or 6 ?
>>>>
>>>> This Canuck has used it often.
>>>
>>> I think I've heard it from a 30 yo Pennsylvanian heavy equipment operator
>>> and ewtewber.
>>
>> He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
>> think he was exposed to Scooby Doo.  My kids are about the same age, and
>> they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that recirculate,
>> um, classic content.
>>
>> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
>> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in re-runs
>> than in first runs.
>
> Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or just
> making a noise?

Two words.

> If the former, what word?
>

Scooby adds an 'r' to the beginning of a lot of words, not just to
"ruff".

The vintage equipment guru is using the two that most often appear as
understatement.

/dps

--
potstickers, Japanese gyoza, Chinese dumplings, let's do it

Jerry Friedman noted that:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:04:41 PM UTC-7, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
>>> on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :
>
> [Pennsylvanian]
>
>>> He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
>>> think he was exposed to Scooby Doo. My kids are about the same age, and
>>> they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that
>>> recirculate, um, classic content.
>>>
>>> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
>>> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
>>> re-runs than in first runs.
>>
>> Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or
>> just making a noise? If the former, what word?
>>
>> My first thought was that he was trying to say 'rural', which is often
>> mispronounce hereabouts a s'rool'.
>
> "Uh-oh" in Canine, which involves a lot of initial r's. Astro often said
> "Ruh-roh, Reorge," to George Jetson.
>
> Next: "Danger, Will Robinson!"

Dang, so much for my coy answer.

/dps

--
"It wasn't just a splash in the pan"
-- lectricbikes.com

Snidely wrote:

> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
> re-runs than in first runs.

What is "ruh-row"? I watched Jetsons when they appeared on Danish tv,
but at the time I didn't listen closely to the English, relying on the
subtitles.

--
Bertel, Denmark

lar3ryca wrote:

>> Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was about lifts
>> (elevators) including how they get to various floors. You may be
>> interested.
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>
> That URL is blocked for anyone outside the UK, so I went looking for it
> on YouTube. I did ot find it, and will fire up the VPN later and watch it.

My automatic VPN (in Opera) just says "Europe" and that is not good
enough for BBC.

> Meanwhile, I did find an interesting video on Youtube called ?The Secret
> Life of the Lift - remastered/. It's basically the history of the list
> from a mechanical point of view.

I found the same video and watched about half of it.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Rich Ulrich wrote:

>>I have forgotten what Basic used.
>
> Whose Basic? So far as I know, Basic never had a 'standard' so
> anyone could do what they wanted.

I have run Basic on a Regnecentral computer, a Poly88 and CBM64. Only
the last one is known in a wider circle. I don't remember if they were
the same or different. The one on the Poly88 was copyrighted by
MicroSoft in 1977.
--
Bertel, Denmark

Peter Moylan wrote:

> When our department first got a PDP-11, it came with a BASIC that I
> didn't much like. DEC kindly gave me the source code so that I could add
> some (rather non-standard) improvements. I gave the improved version
> back to DECUS, the DEC user society.

Which improvements?

I wrote a disassembler for the Poly88 (8080 CPU) and disassembled large
parts of the Basic (pencil and paper) which enabled me to write a
fullscreen editor.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 12:03:58 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Snidely wrote:
>
>> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
>> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
>> re-runs than in first runs.
>
>What is "ruh-row"? I watched Jetsons when they appeared on Danish tv,
>but at the time I didn't listen closely to the English, relying on the
>subtitles.

"uh - oh"

--
Rich Ulrich

On 2024-01-06 22:42, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Jan 2024 22:04:36 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-01-06 16:11, Snidely wrote:
>>> on 1/2/2024, Snidely supposed :
>>>> On Tuesday, lar3ryca pointed out that ...
>>>>> On 2024-01-02 03:44, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>> Le 02/01/2024 à 09:39, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> young people don't say         "Bob's your uncle"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Among younger folks (20 -- 40 y.o.)  in the USA  today,
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>              10= Commonly used       (like Cool!)
>>>>>>>                0=  Never heard of it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4 (?)      =   it doesn't play in Peoria
>>>>>>> 3 or 2    =  Kit and Caboodle
>>>>>>> 1  or  0    =  life of Riley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     "Bob's your uncle"  in the UK must be  5 or 6 ?
>>>>>
>>>>> This Canuck has used it often.
>>>>
>>>> I think I've heard it from a 30 yo Pennsylvanian heavy equipment
>>>> operator and ewtewber.
>>>
>>> He also says "ruh-row" a lot (while working on old diesel engines), so I
>>> think he was exposed to Scooby Doo.  My kids are about the same age, and
>>> they got exposed to Scooby Doo thanks to cable channels that
>>> recirculate, um, classic content.
>>>
>>> I'm less of a Scooby Doo type; I remember Astro saying "ruh-row" on the
>>> Jetsons, and the Great Scoob was a bit later, so I saw him more in
>>> re-runs than in first runs.
>>
>> Enquiring minds want to know... was he trying to say an actual word, or
>> just making a noise? If the former, what word?
>>
>> My first thought was that he was trying to say 'rural', which is often
>> mispronounce hereabouts a s'rool'.
>
> Astro was the Jetson's family dog. Smart for a dog, but didn't know
> rural from urban.

Ahh. Thanks. I did not watch the Jetsons much, so I assumed Astro was a
person.

--
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.

On 2024-01-07 05:07, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> lar3ryca wrote:
>
>>> Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was about lifts
>>> (elevators) including how they get to various floors. You may be
>>> interested.
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>>
>> That URL is blocked for anyone outside the UK, so I went looking for it
>> on YouTube. I did ot find it, and will fire up the VPN later and watch it.
>
> My automatic VPN (in Opera) just says "Europe" and that is not good
> enough for BBC.

I use ExpressVPN, which allowed me to get on the site without the
warning, but when I tried to watch it, I found I had to register, so I
didn't proceed.

I did manage to obtain it another way, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

>> Meanwhile, I did find an interesting video on Youtube called ?The Secret
>> Life of the Lift - remastered/. It's basically the history of the list
>> from a mechanical point of view.
>
> I found the same video and watched about half of it.

There's an interesting demo of using hydraulics (with water) at about 18:00

--
rw-rw-rw- Permissions of the beast.

On 07-Jan-24 1:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 07/01/24 00:38, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>
>> Hannah Fry (Maths Professor) has recently done a new series of The
>> Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was about
>> lifts (elevators) including how they get to various floors. You may
>> be interested.
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>>
> Thanks, I've forwarded this to my other computer, the one that can do
> videos. My main computer has no speakers.

There must have been a time when suggesting that you owned more than one
computer would have seemed like a boast.
1980s?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 2024-01-07 12:28, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 07-Jan-24 1:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 07/01/24 00:38, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>>
>>> Hannah Fry (Maths Professor) has recently done a new series of The
>>> Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was about
>>> lifts (elevators) including how they get to various floors. You may
>>> be interested.
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>>>
>> Thanks, I've forwarded this to my other computer, the one that can do
>> videos. My main computer has no speakers.
>
> There must have been a time when suggesting that you owned more than one
> computer would have seemed like a boast.
> 1980s?

Indeed, but most folks were probably like me; owning more than one was
usually because of overlap when replacing one computer with another.

--
I am the Ghost of Christmas Future Imperfect Conditional.
I bring news of what would have been going to happen if
you were not to have been going to change your ways.

lar3ryca wrote:

>> I found the same video and watched about half of it.
>
> There's an interesting demo of using hydraulics (with water) at about 18:00

My primary interest was (and is) the algorithm.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> There must have been a time when suggesting that you owned more than one
> computer would have seemed like a boast.
> 1980s?

My first computer was a Poly88 (unkown outside a very small circle). My
next one was a CBM64. I must have owned two computers at the same time,
and the same happened when I later got a 8086 pc, and still later when I
upgraded to 80286, 80386 and so on. Is that uncommon?

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 08/01/24 05:28, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 07-Jan-24 1:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 07/01/24 00:38, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>>
>>> Hannah Fry (Maths Professor) has recently done a new series of
>>> The Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was
>>> about lifts (elevators) including how they get to various floors.
>>> You may be interested.
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks, I've forwarded this to my other computer, the one that can
>> do videos. My main computer has no speakers.
>
> There must have been a time when suggesting that you owned more than
> one computer would have seemed like a boast. 1980s?

You're right. In my case I needed a laptop for some purposes, but I
wouldn't want a laptop for my main computer. When my laptop started
getting sick, I replaced it with the Windows desktop that my wife never
uses (because she prefers an Apple). Meanwhile, over time I had acquired
a couple of programs that will only run on Windows, so that second
computer is used just for some special applications.

Actually, I have two more computers under my desk. One is used as a
server. The other is old and retired, but it's still hooked into the LAN
in case I need to search for old files that I forgot to move when I
upgraded.

My wife has an Apple desktop, also an iPad, and an iPod that acts as the
kitchen radio. We also have two Apple phones. This has one disadvantage.
I often have to phone my wife when she has mislaid her phone.
Yesterday's exchange is typical:

Me (talking to my phone): Hey Siri, phone Lynne.
iPod: Who is speaking?
Me: Not you, the other Siri.
iPod: I can't help with that.

I then had to retreat into another room, so that only one of the Siris
could hear me.

Apple continues to refuse to allow the different Siris to have different
names.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 07/01/24 22:17, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> When our department first got a PDP-11, it came with a BASIC that
>> I didn't much like. DEC kindly gave me the source code so that I
>> could add some (rather non-standard) improvements. I gave the
>> improved version back to DECUS, the DEC user society.
>
> Which improvements?

The only one I remember was new PUSH and POP instructions, which made it
easier to write recursive subroutines. But I think I might also have
changed the rules for variable names. In the original BASIC a variable
name had to be either a single letter, or a single letter followed by a
single digit. That was a pain in the arse, so allowing longer variable
names was a priority.

> I wrote a disassembler for the Poly88 (8080 CPU) and disassembled
> large parts of the Basic (pencil and paper) which enabled me to write
> a fullscreen editor.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 2024-01-07 16:06, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 08/01/24 05:28, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 07-Jan-24 1:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 07/01/24 00:38, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hannah Fry (Maths Professor) has recently done a new series of
>>>> The Secret Genius of Modern Life for BBC. The last episode was
>>>> about lifts (elevators) including how they get to various floors.
>>>> You may be interested.
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001td7x/the-secret-genius-of-modern-life-series-2-6-lift
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thanks, I've forwarded this to my other computer, the one that can
>>> do videos. My main computer has no speakers.
>>
>> There must have been a time when suggesting that you owned more than
>> one computer would have seemed like a boast. 1980s?
>
> You're right. In my case I needed a laptop for some purposes, but I
> wouldn't want a laptop for my main computer. When my laptop started
> getting sick, I replaced it with the Windows desktop that my wife never
> uses (because she prefers an Apple). Meanwhile, over time I had acquired
> a couple of programs that will only run on Windows, so that second
> computer is used just for some special applications.

My inventory consists of a Linux Desktop (my primary machine), a Windows
7 desktop (running my phone recording software and two other programs
that have no Linux equivalent), 3 laptops (one Linux, 1 Windows, and the
third currently unused), a Raspberry Pi 4, running Raspbian, used as a
server for sharing program developments with two other programmers.

> Actually, I have two more computers under my desk. One is used as a
> server. The other is old and retired, but it's still hooked into the LAN
> in case I need to search for old files that I forgot to move when I
> upgraded.

--
If the world was a logical place, men would ride horses sidesaddle.

lar3ryca wrote:

> My inventory consists of a Linux Desktop (my primary machine), a Windows
> 7 desktop (running my phone recording software and two other programs
> that have no Linux equivalent), 3 laptops (one Linux, 1 Windows, and the
> third currently unused), a Raspberry Pi 4, running Raspbian, used as a
> server for sharing program developments with two other programmers.

I have my primary stationary running Linux and do all my work on that.
My secondary stationary is born with Windows 7, but when the system
started to get sick, I installed Linux which handles the (I presume)
sick harddisk better, but now it's unreliable. I have a very old laptop
(Windows Vista) that I've hardly ever used. My phone is a Samsung Galaxy
S7 that serves me well, and I have the best phone ever, a Sony Ericsson
T610, that functions as my spare phone. If I could do without the apps
running on my Galaxy (which I can't), I would much prefer the old phone
(4 cm * 10 cm). Recently I got a Samsung tablet which I use
occasionally. Oh, and I have a Texas TI-89 'pocket' calculator that I
never use.

At one time I had three stationaries because I kept the old ones running
after upgrading. With one exception all my computers that I have thrown
away, were fully functional.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 08/01/24 18:18, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> At one time I had three stationaries because I kept the old ones
> running after upgrading. With one exception all my computers that I
> have thrown away, were fully functional.

I used to keep my old computers for spare parts, so that for example I
could add some memory or an extra hard disk to a newer computer. These
days the rate of change in hardware makes reusing the old bits pointless.

The strategy has worked for me just once in recent times. I bought a
refurbished computer, and its network card turned out to be incompatible
with the OS/2 device driver. In that case I just grabbed the network
card from an older PC, and Bob was my mother's brother.

I usually buy refurbished computers. By staying one step behind the
bleeding edge, I save a lot of money.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan wrote:

> I usually buy refurbished computers. By staying one step behind the
> bleeding edge, I save a lot of money.

The first many computer years I kept up to date with the hardware, and
that was expensive. The last many years I have kept the same computer
until it was too slow to run the updated software. I have bought Medion
computers because they consistently were very cheap with excellent
hardware. This one is 6 years old and still fulfills my needs.

--
Bertel, Denmark