I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
in favour of Charles.

When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".

I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
Your Highness?"

On 13-Mar-24 21:31, occam wrote:
> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> in favour of Charles.
>
> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>
> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> Your Highness?"

The Norwegian monarchy isn't known for bicycling (as far as I know) but
'The Old King' would go skiing by bus[1]. Which is pretty... unregal.

[1] No, I'm pretty sure he got off the bus first.

--
Sam Plusnet

occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> in favour of Charles.
>
> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".

Upstart monarchies even, not real ones established by bloody murder.
The Kindom of the United Netherlands was created by the English
and the Prussians in 1815.
(the groundwork was laid in a secret protocol a few years earlier)
The Dutch had no say in the matter.
Luxemburg split off in 1898 because those Luxembourgians
couldn't bear being ruled by a Duchess.

As for bicycles, Juliana was frequently seen on one.
Beatrix also, in her student days, less so as queen.
The even is a life-size equestrian bronze statue of Beatrix,
on a bicycle.

> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> Your Highness?"

He could point you to Bea,

Jan

On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:

> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> in favour of Charles.
>
> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>
> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> Your Highness?"

It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
the Queen might have said.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 14/03/2024 11:14, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>
>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>> in favour of Charles.
>>
>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>
>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>> Your Highness?"
>
> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> the Queen might have said.
>

Yet, the concept seems to have been around well Before Netflix (© 'BN'
2023).

see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_monarchy>

I was surprised - nay, perked up - when I heard 'Luxembourg' mentioned.
They could have equally mentioned Denmark, or Sweden but not Norway, as
Jan points out.

I think it's a reference to the monarchies in the Low Countries , as
opposed to the high-horse monarchy of Great Britain.

Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>
> > I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> > having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> > in favour of Charles.
> >
> > When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> > successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> > Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >
> > I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> > However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> > Your Highness?"
>
> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> the Queen might have said.

That's quite possible.
OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
monarchy is somehow superior to the others.

Jan

occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 14/03/2024 11:14, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >
> >> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >> in favour of Charles.
> >>
> >> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>
> >> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >> Your Highness?"
> >
> > It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> > the Queen might have said.
> >
>
> Yet, the concept seems to have been around well Before Netflix (© 'BN'
> 2023).
>
> see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_monarchy>
>
> I was surprised - nay, perked up - when I heard 'Luxembourg' mentioned.
> They could have equally mentioned Denmark, or Sweden but not Norway, as
> Jan points out.
>
> I think it's a reference to the monarchies in the Low Countries , as
> opposed to the high-horse monarchy of Great Britain.

From your Wiki source:
====
In interviews with C.L. Sulzberger for the book The Fall of Eagles,
Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, grandson and heir of Kaiser Wilhelm
II, expressed a deep sense of admiration for the informal bicycle
monarchy and crowned republic style favored and used by the Dutch,
Belgian, and Scandinavian royal families. Praising how even vehicles
carrying the King or Queen would stop and wait at traffic lights, Louis
Ferdinand stated that if the House of Hohenzollern were ever restored to
the German throne during his lifetime, this same informality was a
quality he fully intended to emulate.[5]
====

It would seem that the US of A doesn't just have an elected ersatz king.

By German Imperial standards US presidents are wannabee emperors,

Jan

Le 13/03/2024 à 21:31, occam a écrit :
>
> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> in favour of Charles.
>
> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>
> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> Your Highness?"

Point of order, Mr Chairman: shouldn't it be 'Your grace' for a duke?

Anyway, IMHO bicycle monarchies are really only suited to flat
countries. Power-assisted monarchies are required where there are hills.

On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>>
>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>
>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>
>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>> Your Highness?"
>>
>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
>> the Queen might have said.
>
> That's quite possible.
> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
>

When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
- on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
the Grand Duke came up.

I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
Royals"?

(Wiki says)

Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
Earl > Viscount etc.

My lecturer (a lawyer) was insistent that 'our' Grand Duke was of equal
status as the Queen of GB. When I expressed scepticism, she said: "Watch
a video of the Queen and Grand Duke on horseback parade. You will see
that they ride side-by-side, and not Queen first followed by the Grand
Duke".

Those horses have a lot of say in human matters. (I doubt there is a
photo of them riding bicycles together, though.)

On 14/03/2024 14:20, Hibou wrote:
> Le 13/03/2024 à 21:31, occam a écrit :
>>
>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>> in favour of Charles.
>>
>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>
>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>> Your Highness?"
>
> Point of order, Mr Chairman: shouldn't it be 'Your grace' for a duke?
>
> Anyway, IMHO bicycle monarchies are really only suited to flat
> countries. Power-assisted monarchies are required where there are hills.
>

Think again.

"During a conversation or in writing, the titles traditionally used to
address a member of the family are as follows: For a male member of the
Grand Ducal Family, be it His Royal Highness the Grand Duke, the Crown
Prince or one of the Princes, the title is 'Monseigneur' or 'Your Royal
Highness'." (Wiki)

Le 14/03/2024 à 13:25, occam a écrit :
> On 14/03/2024 14:20, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 13/03/2024 à 21:31, occam a écrit :
>>>
>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>
>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>
>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>> Your Highness?"
>>
>> Point of order, Mr Chairman: shouldn't it be 'Your grace' for a duke?
>>
>> Anyway, IMHO bicycle monarchies are really only suited to flat
>> countries. Power-assisted monarchies are required where there are hills.
>
> Think again.
>
> "During a conversation or in writing, the titles traditionally used to
> address a member of the family are as follows: For a male member of the
> Grand Ducal Family, be it His Royal Highness the Grand Duke, the Crown
> Prince or one of the Princes, the title is 'Monseigneur' or 'Your Royal
> Highness'." (Wiki)

I can't find that using Google. Is this Grand Duke chappie the Missing
Link, perchance?

On 2024-03-14, occam wrote:

> On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>>>
>>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>>
>>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>>> Your Highness?"
>>>
>>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
>>> the Queen might have said.
>>
>> That's quite possible.
>> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
>> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
>>
>
> When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
> - on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
> the Grand Duke came up.
>
> I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
> Royals"?
>
> (Wiki says)
>
> Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
> Earl > Viscount etc.

Most "Emperors" are just national monarchs with that as an addendum or
made up by themselves (Victoria Empress of India, Emperor Napoleon
I). See also Idi Amin, Conqueror of the British Empire (and King of
Scotland).

Julius Caesar was "dictator" & his successors were "princeps
civitatis" (first citizen) then "imperator" (commander, hence
"emperor") because the Romans were trying to pretend that they still
had a republic without a king.

--
We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. But then, so did
the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed
by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art. Very often
in the art of words. ---Ursula Le Guin

On 2024-03-14 12:47:13 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>>
>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>
>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>
>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>> Your Highness?"
>>
>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
>> the Queen might have said.
>
> That's quite possible.
> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.

Yes, but she wouldn't have said it.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 14/03/2024 16:05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-03-14 12:47:13 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
>> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>>>
>>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the
>>>> Queen is
>>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>>
>>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>>> Your Highness?"
>>>
>>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
>>> the Queen might have said.
>>
>> That's quite possible.
>> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
>> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
>
> Yes, but she wouldn't have said it.
>

Did I mention that the scene I described was a clever device used by the
Crown director to enact the internal dialogue of the Queen? (Two
different actresses, both playing the Queen - one young (series 1) and
the other older (series 6).

So, you would be correct. She may have never said it. But she would in
all probability have thought it. Add it to the list of complaints people
have compiled against the series makers.

On 14/03/2024 14:39, Hibou wrote:
> Le 14/03/2024 à 13:25, occam a écrit :
>> On 14/03/2024 14:20, Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 13/03/2024 à 21:31, occam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the
>>>> Queen is
>>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>>
>>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>>> Your Highness?"
>>>
>>> Point of order, Mr Chairman: shouldn't it be 'Your grace' for a duke?
>>>
>>> Anyway, IMHO bicycle monarchies are really only suited to flat
>>> countries. Power-assisted monarchies are required where there are hills.
>>
>> Think again.
>>
>> "During a conversation or in writing, the titles traditionally used to
>> address a member of the family are as follows: For a male member of the
>> Grand Ducal Family, be it His Royal Highness the Grand Duke, the Crown
>> Prince or one of the Princes, the title is 'Monseigneur' or 'Your Royal
>> Highness'." (Wiki)
>
> I can't find that using Google. Is this Grand Duke chappie the Missing
> Link, perchance?
>

Neither could I. However, I do remember the lecturer showing us a
black-and-white photo of the Grand Duke alongside the Queen, both on
horseback.

P.S. In the Luxembourg constitution, the Grand Duke (of the first
party) is referred to as 'Le Roi' in the beginning section. In the mind
of these people, he is as good as a King. If he ever declares himself an
Emperor, I'm moving out.

In article <vCtIN.205746$Fr1.102630@fx11.ams1>,
not@home.com says...
>
> On 13-Mar-24 21:31, occam wrote:
> > I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> > having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> > in favour of Charles.
> >
> > When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> > successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> > Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >
> > I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> > However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> > Your Highness?"
>
> The Norwegian monarchy isn't known for bicycling (as far as I know) but
> 'The Old King' would go skiing by bus[1]. Which is pretty... unregal.
>
> [1] No, I'm pretty sure he got off the bus first.

Or , he could have commandeered two buses, strapped one
to each foot and ...

Janet

Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-14 12:47:13 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
> > Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >>
> >>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >>> in favour of Charles.
> >>>
> >>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>>
> >>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >>> Your Highness?"
> >>
> >> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> >> the Queen might have said.
> >
> > That's quite possible.
> > OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> > monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
>
> Yes, but she wouldn't have said it.

No of course wouldn't.
Being superior is just being it.
If you have to say so you are not,

Jan

occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >>
> >>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >>> in favour of Charles.
> >>>
> >>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>>
> >>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >>> Your Highness?"
> >>
> >> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> >> the Queen might have said.
> >
> > That's quite possible.
> > OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> > monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
> >
>
> When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
> - on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
> the Grand Duke came up.
>
> I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
> Royals"?
>
> (Wiki says)
>
> Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
> Earl > Viscount etc.
>
> My lecturer (a lawyer) was insistent that 'our' Grand Duke was of equal
> status as the Queen of GB. When I expressed scepticism, she said: "Watch
> a video of the Queen and Grand Duke on horseback parade. You will see
> that they ride side-by-side, and not Queen first followed by the Grand
> Duke".
>
> Those horses have a lot of say in human matters. (I doubt there is a
> photo of them riding bicycles together, though.)

You were right, he is wrong.
That -grand- duke is just a creation of the English and the Prussians
created out of thin air to get the Prince of Orange to accept that title
with a little as posble in the way of territorial concessions
by the Prussians.

Whatever he may be, he is -by creation- an underling
of the Kings of England/Britain and the Kings of Prussia.

By feudal logic you cannot possibly be the equal
of the overlord who created you to begin with,

Jan

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-14, occam wrote:
>
> > On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >>>
> >>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >>>> in favour of Charles.
> >>>>
> >>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>>>
> >>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >>>> Your Highness?"
> >>>
> >>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> >>> the Queen might have said.
> >>
> >> That's quite possible.
> >> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> >> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
> >>
> >
> > When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
> > - on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
> > the Grand Duke came up.
> >
> > I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
> > Royals"?
> >
> > (Wiki says)
> >
> > Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
> > Earl > Viscount etc.
>
> Most "Emperors" are just national monarchs with that as an addendum or
> made up by themselves (Victoria Empress of India, Emperor Napoleon
> I). See also Idi Amin, Conqueror of the British Empire (and King of
> Scotland).
>
> Julius Caesar was "dictator" & his successors were "princeps
> civitatis" (first citizen) then "imperator" (commander, hence
> "emperor") because the Romans were trying to pretend that they still
> had a republic without a king.

Not just 'the Romans' Augustus himself very much insisted
on being just a 'first citizen'.
He had seen what may happen to a 'dictator for life',

Jan

On 14-Mar-24 9:54, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>
>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>> in favour of Charles.
>>
>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>
> Upstart monarchies even, not real ones established by bloody murder.
> The Kindom of the United Netherlands was created by the English
> and the Prussians in 1815.
> (the groundwork was laid in a secret protocol a few years earlier)
> The Dutch had no say in the matter.

Payback for 1688.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 14-Mar-24 13:22, occam wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
>>>
>>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>>
>>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
>>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
>>>> Your Highness?"
>>>
>>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
>>> the Queen might have said.
>>
>> That's quite possible.
>> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
>> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
>>
>
> When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
> - on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
> the Grand Duke came up.
>
> I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
> Royals"?
>
> (Wiki says)
>
> Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
> Earl > Viscount etc.
>
> My lecturer (a lawyer) was insistent that 'our' Grand Duke was of equal
> status as the Queen of GB. When I expressed scepticism, she said: "Watch
> a video of the Queen and Grand Duke on horseback parade. You will see
> that they ride side-by-side, and not Queen first followed by the Grand
> Duke".

He's wrong.
As "Heads of State" they do have a similar status, but that has nothing
to do with their relative standing in the Almanach de Gotha (or whatever).

--
Sam Plusnet

occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 14/03/2024 16:05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2024-03-14 12:47:13 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
> >
> >> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >>>
> >>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the
> >>>> Queen is
> >>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >>>> in favour of Charles.
> >>>>
> >>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>>>
> >>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >>>> Your Highness?"
> >>>
> >>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> >>> the Queen might have said.
> >>
> >> That's quite possible.
> >> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> >> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
> >
> > Yes, but she wouldn't have said it.
> >
>
> Did I mention that the scene I described was a clever device used by the
> Crown director to enact the internal dialogue of the Queen? (Two
> different actresses, both playing the Queen - one young (series 1) and
> the other older (series 6).
>
> So, you would be correct. She may have never said it. But she would in
> all probability have thought it. Add it to the list of complaints people
> have compiled against the series makers.

Nothing wrong with it, in principle.
Such a scene could have occurred as 'monologue interieure'
inside the older Elizabeth's head,

Jan

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 14-Mar-24 9:54, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:
> >
> >> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >> in favour of Charles.
> >>
> >> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >
> > Upstart monarchies even, not real ones established by bloody murder.
> > The Kindom of the United Netherlands was created by the English
> > and the Prussians in 1815.
> > (the groundwork was laid in a secret protocol a few years earlier)
> > The Dutch had no say in the matter.
>
> Payback for 1688.

Ah, got you there.
So you admit to having been invaded and occupied,
despite the event being Not Memorable,

Jan

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 14-Mar-24 13:22, occam wrote:
> > On 14/03/2024 13:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2024-03-13 21:31:13 +0000, occam said:
> >>>
> >>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
> >>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
> >>>> in favour of Charles.
> >>>>
> >>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
> >>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
> >>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
> >>>>
> >>>> I have never seen the Grand Duke on a bicycle in my 25 years here.
> >>>> However, when I do, I'll make a point of shouting "Where's the horse,
> >>>> Your Highness?"
> >>>
> >>> It sounds more like something the scriptwriter invented than anything
> >>> the Queen might have said.
> >>
> >> That's quite possible.
> >> OTOH I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she felt that the British
> >> monarchy is somehow superior to the others.
> >>
> >
> > When I was taking the mandatory course on Luxembourg History and Culture
> > - on my journey to acquiring LU citizenship - the issue of the status
> > the Grand Duke came up.
> >
> > I asked "Where does a Grand Duke stand in the hierarchy of European
> > Royals"?
> >
> > (Wiki says)
> >
> > Emperor > King/Queen > Grand Duke > Prince/Princess > Duke > Marquess >
> > Earl > Viscount etc.
> >
> > My lecturer (a lawyer) was insistent that 'our' Grand Duke was of equal
> > status as the Queen of GB. When I expressed scepticism, she said: "Watch
> > a video of the Queen and Grand Duke on horseback parade. You will see
> > that they ride side-by-side, and not Queen first followed by the Grand
> > Duke".
>
> He's wrong.
> As "Heads of State" they do have a similar status, but that has nothing
> to do with their relative standing in the Almanach de Gotha (or whatever).

And as a mere Grand Duke he certainly ranks beneath princes,
like the Prince of Lichtenstein for example,
If both were to visit Charles at the same time, the major domo
(or whatever Charles has for the purpose) will call Lichtenstein first,

Jan

On 14-Mar-24 21:51, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 14-Mar-24 9:54, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was re-watching The Crown (Netflix series). In one scene, the Queen is
>>>> having a dialogue with her younger self, regarding her early abdication
>>>> in favour of Charles.
>>>>
>>>> When the younger self points at The Netherlands and Luxembourg as
>>>> successful examples of early abdications, the older self replies "But
>>>> Netherlands and Luxembourg are bicycle monarchies".
>>>
>>> Upstart monarchies even, not real ones established by bloody murder.
>>> The Kindom of the United Netherlands was created by the English
>>> and the Prussians in 1815.
>>> (the groundwork was laid in a secret protocol a few years earlier)
>>> The Dutch had no say in the matter.
>>
>> Payback for 1688.
>
> Ah, got you there.
> So you admit to having been invaded and occupied,
> despite the event being Not Memorable,

Who writes the history books?

Had it failed, the story would have a quite different tone.

--
Sam Plusnet