In English, which is correct:

'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?

Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

Sn!pe submitted this gripping article, maybe on Thursday:
> In English, which is correct:
>
> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

Is dog Latin like pig Latin?

-d

--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sn!pe submitted this gripping article, maybe on Thursday:
> > In English, which is correct:
> >
> > 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
> >
> > Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?
>
> Is dog Latin like pig Latin?
>
> -d

According to Wikinaccurate: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Latin>

Dog Latin aka cod Latin is not to be confused with pig Latin.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

On 2024-03-22 02:11:55 +0000, Sn!pe said:

> In English, which is correct:
>
> 'forums' or 'fora';

I prefer forums unless in a very Latin context.

> 'viruses',

The only possible one.

> 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 22/03/24 13:11, Sn!pe wrote:

> Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

As word play, and if well done: yes. Especially since there are no
native speakers of Latin around to criticise the result.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
> In English, which is correct:
>
> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?

I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=forums%2Cfora&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3>

'Viruses', of course. (In which domain, 'bacillus' is singularly appealing.)

> Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

It would seem that dog Latin has eaten up almost all the cod Latin...

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=dog+Latin%2Ccod+Latin&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3>

On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote

> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>> In English, which is correct:
>>
>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>> ?
>
> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.

I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.

Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

--
Cheers, Harvey

Le 22/03/2024 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>> ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

Well, up till about 2000, 'fora' was almost as current as 'forums' in
written BrE, and it remains comparatively common:

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=forums%2Cfora&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>

'Such plurals' include 'bacteria', 'media', and 'data', which are the
dominant forms. People might look at you askance - might even indulge in
some bruxism - if you said 'bacteriums, 'mediums', and 'datums'.

On 2024-03-22 13:01:15 +0000, HVS said:

> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>> ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

Did his angels have hali?

Back in the mists of time when I read The Gramophone every month I was
irritated that they wrote "concerti" rather than "concertos".

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 22/03/2024 at 13:48, Hibou wrote:
> Le 22/03/2024 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>>> ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
>> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
>> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Well, up till about 2000, 'fora' was almost as current as 'forums' in
> written BrE, and it remains comparatively common:
>
> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=forums%2Cfora&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>
>
> 'Such plurals' include 'bacteria', 'media', and 'data', which are the
> dominant forms. People might look at you askance - might even indulge in
> some bruxism - if you said 'bacteriums, 'mediums', and 'datums'.
>

Ah, but, for a consensus on your future, you might consult one or more
mediums. Or the horoscopes in the media.

--
Chris Elvidge, England
RALPH WON'T "MORPH" IF YOU SQUEEZE HIM HARD ENOUGH

On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote

> Le 22/03/2024 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or
>>>> 'vira' ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I
>> wouldn't say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing
>> something is fine, while using it is tooth-grindingly
>> pretentious.
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the
>> female choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me
>> as one of the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's
>> like hearing someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Well, up till about 2000, 'fora' was almost as current as 'forums'
> in written BrE, and it remains comparatively common:
>
><https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=forums%2Cfora&year_st
>art=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>

Interesting; it's undoubtedly not a coincidence that the date when
"forums" took off looks like the period when online discussion sites
became popular.
> 'Such plurals' include 'bacteria', 'media', and 'data', which are
> the dominant forms. People might look at you askance - might even
> indulge in some bruxism - if you said 'bacteriums, 'mediums', and
> 'datums'.

A reasonable point, but I'd say that those are in a slightly
different category than "alti/soprani" or "cappuccini", as they're
cases where not only have the "correct" plural forms been retained,
they're so dominant that they're well on their way to being used for
both singular and plural.

"These bacteria have been found in..."
"This particular bacteria was found in..."

"The data suggest that..."
"The data suggests that..."

FWIW, a plural that I consciously switched to in the last couple of
decades is "memorandums". Although I liked "memoranda", I felt that
the word is sufficiently naturalised that it was time to use the
plural formed as one usually does for English words.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> bruxism

I try to learn at least one new thing every day. That word
is my "thing that I learned today" for today, thank you.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

On 22 Mar 2024, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote

> On 2024-03-22 13:01:15 +0000, HVS said:
>
>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or
>>>> 'vira' ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I
>> wouldn't say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing
>> something is fine, while using it is tooth-grindingly
>> pretentious.
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the
>> female choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me
>> as one of the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's
>> like hearing someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Did his angels have hali?
>
> Back in the mists of time when I read The Gramophone every month I
> was irritated that they wrote "concerti" rather than "concertos".

Yes, I seem to recall encountering that, and was similarly
unimpressed.

>
>

On 2024-03-22, HVS wrote:

> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>> ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

Ask your greengrocer for "one broccolo". I dare you.

--
Musicians can run this state better than politicians. We won't get a
lot done in the mornings, but we'll work late and be honest.
---Kinky Friedman

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:11:55 +0000, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

>In English, which is correct:
>
>'forums' or 'fora';

Afaic, "forums." "Fora" was the Latin plural, not the English.

> 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?

"Viruses." "Virii" and "vira" are wrong both in Latin and English.
"Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
of its having been used.

>Further to that: Does dog Latin have any place in English usage?

On 22/03/2024 11:41 am, Hibou wrote:

> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :

>> In English, which is correct:
>> 'forums' or 'fora';  'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?

> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.

Oi!

My old man's a dustman...

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 13:01:15 GMT, HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

>It's like hearing
>someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

I never hear anyone in Starbucks say anything, since I think Starbucks
is the worst coffee available, and never go into one.

But if I would hear "two cappuccini" anywhere, I would grimace. It's
"due cappuccini" in Italian, or "two cappuccinos" in English.

I remember a number of years ago someone getting into the elevator
after me in the hotel in Syracuse I was staying in. There was a
tennis tournament in town, and his arms were full of tennis rackets,
so he couldn't push a button. He asked me to push the button for his
floor by saying "dos." I said "you're an American, huh?" and he
nodded.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 14:58:57 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-03-22, HVS wrote:
>
>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>>> ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
>> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
>> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
>Ask your greengrocer for "one broccolo". I dare you.

I once heard a waitress in a restaurant in Italy deliver a plate of
what she called "un spaghetto" to a customer.

JNugent <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:

> On 22/03/2024 11:41 am, Hibou wrote:
>
> > Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>
> >> In English, which is correct:
> >> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> > I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> Oi!
>
> My old man's a dustman...

Oh my, those gor-blimey trousers.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

On 22/03/2024 14:01, HVS wrote:

>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.

I like 'tooth-grindingly'. I will keep it as backup to my favourite
'toe-curlingly"

>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>

If, on the other hand, you were in a Starbucks in Rome, and the counter
person shouted "due cappuccini, Mario!" would your teeth still grind?

Ken Blake wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 14:58:57 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:

>>On 2024-03-22, HVS wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>>
>>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>>
>>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
>>> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
>>> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>>>
>>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>>
>>Ask your greengrocer for "one broccolo". I dare you.

> I once heard a waitress in a restaurant in Italy deliver a plate of
> what she called "un spaghetto" to a customer.

I suppose that's like AmFFE (American Fast Food English) "a fry" for
a serving of French fries.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 22/03/2024 13:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-03-22 13:01:15 +0000, HVS said:
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Did his angels have hali?
>
> Back in the mists of time when I read The Gramophone every month I was
> irritated that they wrote "concerti" rather than "concertos".
>
As a musician I am comfortable with both versions. I might refer the the
concertos of Beethoven, but, the plural of concerto grosso will always
be concerti grossi. Concertos grosso or concerto grossos are both
unappealing.

--
Ray
UK

Ken Blake wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:11:55 +0000, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

>>In English, which is correct:
>>
>>'forums' or 'fora';

> Afaic, "forums." "Fora" was the Latin plural, not the English.

>> 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?

> "Viruses." "Virii" and "vira" are wrong both in Latin and English.
> "Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
> of its having been used.

Indeed. According to Wikipedia, in modern Latin (not a widely spoken
or written language) the plural is "vira".

--
Jerry Friedman

On 2024-03-22 09:42, Sn!pe wrote:
> JNugent <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22/03/2024 11:41 am, Hibou wrote:
>>
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> Oi!
>>
>> My old man's a dustman...
>
> Oh my, those gor-blimey trousers.

'ow 'd'ya know they're lilies?

--
I asked a German gentleman if he knew the square root of 81.
He said "No".

Ken Blake wrote:

> "Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
> of its having been used.

"Virus" was a mass word with no plural.

--
Bertel, Denmark