On 2024-01-17 05:23, Janet wrote:
> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>
>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>
> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>
> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
> for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
> have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
> neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
> establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
> by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
> release breeding pairs back into the wild.

I adopted a rescue comma from your organization₎ but the poor thing was
found nearly frozen to death₎ and was somewhat misshapen as a result.

--
Like most people my age, I'm 79.

On 17-Jan-24 3:12, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2024-01-17, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>> In article <o8GpN.1462$idBb.459@fx08.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> An up to date version of:
>>> "Fog in channel. Continent Isolated!"
>>
>> Exactly. That was the old cliche/joke line that I had in mind.
>> I just couldn't quite remember the phrasing. Thanks.
>
> Problem is, what if Google Groups had been, as it were, the continent?
>
> Good heavens, perish the thought!

Some might suggest: More incontinent than continent.
(But I couldn't possibly comment.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17-Jan-24 11:23, Janet wrote:
> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>
>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>
> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>
> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
> for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
> have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
> neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
> establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
> by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
> release breeding pairs back into the wild.

I hope you allow those poor commas which have been inverted to rest
comfortably, the correct way up.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> James Kuyper:
>
>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed,
>> that would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done
>> is remove features.
>
> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued
> posts to .c++ appear in .c . But assigning incompetent
> developers to Google Groups may have been a deliberate
> decision as well... Yet where Google /do/ want to compete,
> they ususally do so quite well.
>
??
If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers, wouldn't
they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay their salaries?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 1/17/2024 11:14 AM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> James Kuyper:
>>
>>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed,
>>> that would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done
>>> is remove features.
>>
>> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued
>> posts to .c++ appear in .c .  But assigning incompetent
>> developers to Google Groups may have been a deliberate
>> decision as well... Yet where Google /do/ want to compete,
>> they ususally do so quite well.
>>
> ??
> If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers, wouldn't
> they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay their salaries?
>

For some damn reason, this reminds me of the following scene:

https://youtu.be/G_f9HWp6PLE
(How HR works at Hooli tech company)

lol.

On 18/01/24 00:48, HVS wrote:
> On 17 Jan 2024, Janet wrote
>
>> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>
>>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>>
>> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>>
>> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home for orphaned,
>> divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them have been rescued from
>> online slavery, abuse, cruelty and neglect. My intention is to
>> rehabilitate them and establish a robust new strain, resistant to
>> sloppy editing by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
>> release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>
> Where they can blend seamlessly into the landscape of common usage,
> like comma chameleons?

Thanks for the reminder. I had almost forgotten the song that goes
"comma comma comma comma comma chameleon".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 18/01/24 06:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> James Kuyper:
>>
>>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed, that
>>> would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done is remove
>>> features.
>>
>> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued posts
>> to .c++ appear in .c . But assigning incompetent developers to
>> Google Groups may have been a deliberate decision as well... Yet
>> where Google /do/ want to compete, they ususally do so quite well.
>>
> ?? If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers,
> wouldn't they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay
> their salaries?

Large organisations often shuffle incompetents around to different jobs,
rather than get rid of them. The classic example is from the early days
of computer companies. The people who were no good at hardware design
were moved to the software group. If they screwed that up, they were
moved to documentation. If they turned out to have no skills at all,
they became managers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 17-Jan-24 21:55, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/01/24 06:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>> James Kuyper:
>>>
>>>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed, that
>>>> would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done is remove
>>>> features.
>>>
>>> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued posts
>>> to .c++ appear in .c .  But assigning incompetent developers to
>>> Google Groups may have been a deliberate decision as well... Yet
>>> where Google /do/ want to compete, they ususally do so quite well.
>>>
>> ?? If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers,
>> wouldn't they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay
>> their salaries?
>
> Large organisations often shuffle incompetents around to different jobs,
> rather than get rid of them. The classic example is from the early days
> of computer companies. The people who were no good at hardware design
> were moved to the software group. If they screwed that up, they were
> moved to documentation. If they turned out to have no skills at all,
> they became managers.

You missed Quality Control/Assurance out of that list.

'Those who can't' get to criticise the work of those who can.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 08:55:07 +1100, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 18/01/24 06:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>> James Kuyper:
>>>
>>>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed, that
>>>> would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done is remove
>>>> features.
>>>
>>> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued posts
>>> to .c++ appear in .c . But assigning incompetent developers to
>>> Google Groups may have been a deliberate decision as well... Yet
>>> where Google /do/ want to compete, they ususally do so quite well.
>>>
>> ?? If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers,
>> wouldn't they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay
>> their salaries?
>
>Large organisations often shuffle incompetents around to different jobs,
>rather than get rid of them. The classic example is from the early days
>of computer companies. The people who were no good at hardware design
>were moved to the software group. If they screwed that up, they were
>moved to documentation. If they turned out to have no skills at all,
>they became managers.

One reason people are moved around in large organizations is that if a
person is incompetent at their job, and is fired for it, that reflects
badly on the manager who hired the incompetent because he/she
exercised bad judgement in hiring the person.

If the incompetent person is transferred to another job, that reflects
well on the person who did the hiring because the brought on someone
who was worthy of promotion and the incompetency is then the problem
of the new manager.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

In article <uo9ibu$27862$1@dont-email.me>,
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/01/24 06:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > On 17-Jan-24 7:44, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> >> James Kuyper:
> >>
> >>> If they had added capabilities that were badly designed, that
> >>> would be a sign of incompetence, but all they've done is remove
> >>> features.
> >>
> >> They have also introduced bugs, such as the one that casued posts
> >> to .c++ appear in .c . But assigning incompetent developers to
> >> Google Groups may have been a deliberate decision as well... Yet
> >> where Google /do/ want to compete, they ususally do so quite well.
> >>
> > ?? If they have (what they judge to be) incompetent developers,
> > wouldn't they simply get rid of them, rather than continue to pay
> > their salaries?

> Large organisations often shuffle incompetents around to different jobs,
> rather than get rid of them. The classic example is from the early days
> of computer companies. The people who were no good at hardware design
> were moved to the software group. If they screwed that up, they were
> moved to documentation. If they turned out to have no skills at all,
> they became managers.

a modern version of: those who can - do; those who can't - teach; those who
can't even manage that work for OFSTED

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 2024-01-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 18/01/24 00:48, HVS wrote:
>> On 17 Jan 2024, Janet wrote
>>
>>> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
>>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>>>
>>> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>>>
>>> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home for orphaned,
>>> divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them have been rescued from
>>> online slavery, abuse, cruelty and neglect. My intention is to
>>> rehabilitate them and establish a robust new strain, resistant to
>>> sloppy editing by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
>>> release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>>
>> Where they can blend seamlessly into the landscape of common usage,
>> like comma chameleons?
>
> Thanks for the reminder. I had almost forgotten the song that goes
> "comma comma comma comma comma chameleon".

Don't forget "Korma Chameleon", from one of those lists of songs about
curries (along with "Poppadum Preach", "Girlfriend in a Korma", &
"Ring of Fire").

--
books by the blameless and by the dead

In article <uo92hp$24gab$2@dont-email.me>,
larry@invalid.ca says...
>
> On 2024-01-17 05:23, Janet wrote:
> > In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
> > snidely.too@gmail.com says...
> >
> >> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
> >
> > I'll put you on the waiting list.
> >
> > As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
> > for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
> > have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
> > neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
> > establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
> > by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
> > release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>
> I adopted a rescue comma from your organization? but the poor thing was
> found nearly frozen to death? and was somewhat misshapen as a result.

I usually supply them in pairs, so that if one is
injured or dies in transit the adopter still has a useful
semi-colon.

Janet

In article <uo9i17$274in$1@dont-email.me>,
peter@pmoylan.org.invalid says...
>
> On 18/01/24 00:48, HVS wrote:
> > On 17 Jan 2024, Janet wrote
> >
> >> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
> >> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
> >>
> >> I'll put you on the waiting list.
> >>
> >> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home for orphaned,
> >> divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them have been rescued from
> >> online slavery, abuse, cruelty and neglect. My intention is to
> >> rehabilitate them and establish a robust new strain, resistant to
> >> sloppy editing by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
> >> release breeding pairs back into the wild.
> >
> > Where they can blend seamlessly into the landscape of common usage,
> > like comma chameleons?
>
> Thanks for the reminder. I had almost forgotten the song that goes
> "comma comma comma comma comma chameleon".

You left out some commas there.

Janet

Le 18/01/2024 à 11:59, Janet a écrit :
> In article <uo92hp$24gab$2@dont-email.me>,
> larry@invalid.ca says...
>> On 2024-01-17 05:23, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
>>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>>>
>>> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>>>
>>> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
>>> for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
>>> have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
>>> neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
>>> establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
>>> by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
>>> release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>>
>> I adopted a rescue comma from your organization? but the poor thing was
>> found nearly frozen to death? and was somewhat misshapen as a result.
>
> I usually supply them in pairs, so that if one is
> injured or dies in transit the adopter still has a useful
> semi-colon.

Not sure I'd want a half dead semicolon.

I suppose you send them out in Commer vans?

On 17/01/2024 02:54, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <o8GpN.1462$idBb.459@fx08.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 16-Jan-24 18:45, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>>> In article <uo5vs5$1f48u$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> The situation is clear to those of us who have never relied on Google
>>>> Groups. I've noticed, though, that those who are used to using Google
>>>> Groups are very confused about the situation, and stil have the
>>>> impression that newsgroups are being closed down.
>>>
>>> Because from their point of view, it is.
>>>
>>> From their point of view, Usenet is (i.e., will be) no more.
>>
>> An up to date version of:
>> "Fog in channel. Continent Isolated!"
>
> Exactly. That was the old cliche/joke line that I had in mind.
> I just couldn't quite remember the phrasing. Thanks.
>
Google groups has gone.

I've had to go to Mozilla ThunderBird and Eternal September.

An hour to configure, and I think I replied to Kenny's personal email
by accident.

It's much less convenient.

Grrr.

On 2024-01-18 05:59, Janet wrote:
> In article <uo92hp$24gab$2@dont-email.me>,
> larry@invalid.ca says...
>>
>> On 2024-01-17 05:23, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
>>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>>>
>>> I'll put you on the waiting list.
>>>
>>> As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
>>> for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
>>> have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
>>> neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
>>> establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
>>> by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
>>> release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>>
>> I adopted a rescue comma from your organization? but the poor thing was
>> found nearly frozen to death? and was somewhat misshapen as a result.

Hmm... apparently your usenet tool(s) are not familiar with unicode.

> I usually supply them in pairs, so that if one is
> injured or dies in transit the adopter still has a useful
> semi-colon.

Ahh... thanks. Knowing that⌟ I adopted another rescue⌟ but apparently⌟
it too⌟ has been injured.

⌟
--
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.

On 2024-01-18, Janet wrote:

> In article <uo92hp$24gab$2@dont-email.me>,
> larry@invalid.ca says...
>>
>> On 2024-01-17 05:23, Janet wrote:
>> > In article <mn.832a7e81f46d37fd.127094@snitoo>,
>> > snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>> >
>> >> /dps "I may have to ask Janet for more commas"
>> >
>> > I'll put you on the waiting list.
>> >
>> > As you know,I run a famous Usenet charity care home
>> > for orphaned, divorced and unwanted commas. Most of them
>> > have been rescued from online slavery, abuse, cruelty and
>> > neglect. My intention is to rehabilitate them and
>> > establish a robust new strain, resistant to sloppy editing
>> > by illiterates. Later, if all goes well, we hope to
>> > release breeding pairs back into the wild.
>>
>> I adopted a rescue comma from your organization? but the poor thing was
>> found nearly frozen to death? and was somewhat misshapen as a result.
>
> I usually supply them in pairs, so that if one is
> injured or dies in transit the adopter still has a useful
> semi-colon.

That's very public-spirited.

--
is it any wonder that my mind's on fire,
imprisoned by the thoughts of what to do?

On 18-Jan-24 15:03, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On 17/01/2024 02:54, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> In article <o8GpN.1462$idBb.459@fx08.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
>> <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 16-Jan-24 18:45, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>>>> In article <uo5vs5$1f48u$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Peter Moylan  <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> The situation is clear to those of us who have never relied on Google
>>>>> Groups. I've noticed, though, that those who are used to using Google
>>>>> Groups are very confused about the situation, and stil have the
>>>>> impression that newsgroups are being closed down.
>>>>
>>>> Because from their point of view, it is.
>>>>
>>>>   From their point of view, Usenet is (i.e., will be) no more.
>>>
>>> An up to date version of:
>>> "Fog in channel.  Continent Isolated!"
>>
>> Exactly.  That was the old cliche/joke line that I had in mind.
>> I just couldn't quite remember the phrasing.  Thanks.
>>
> Google groups has gone.
>
> I've had to go to Mozilla ThunderBird and Eternal September.
>
> An hour to configure, and I think I replied to Kenny's personal email
> by accident.
>
> It's much less convenient.
>
> Grrr.

Thunderbird is... ok, once you get used to it.
My peeve is the close juxtaposition of the "Reply" and "Followup"
buttons, where you only find out what they do by trial and error - with
error leading by a mile.

(I suspect you've already spotted that one)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 19/01/24 05:37, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 18-Jan-24 15:03, Malcolm McLean wrote:

>> Google groups has gone.
>>
>> I've had to go to Mozilla ThunderBird and Eternal September.
>>
>> An hour to configure, and I think I replied to Kenny's personal
>> email by accident.
>>
>> It's much less convenient.
>>
>> Grrr.
>
> Thunderbird is... ok, once you get used to it. My peeve is the close
> juxtaposition of the "Reply" and "Followup" buttons, where you only
> find out what they do by trial and error - with error leading by a
> mile.
>
> (I suspect you've already spotted that one)

Right click in the "header" area of the Thunderbird window, choose
"Customize", and replace your "Reply" button with the one called "Smart
Reply". This is a button that means "reply" when you're reading mail and
"followup" when you're reading a newsgroup. There's a little arrow next
to it that gives you a drop-down menu with other options.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 1/18/24 16:34, Peter Moylan wrote:
....
> Right click in the "header" area of the Thunderbird window,

I'm running Thunderbird 115.6.0 on Ubuntu Linux 5.15.0-91-generic, and a
right click in the "header" area has no effect.

> ... choose
> "Customize", and replace your "Reply" button with the one called "Smart
> Reply".

There is, however, a button labelled "More", and one of the options that
comes up when I select "More" is "Customize...". When I select that
option, a small number of aspects of the screen are customizable - but
there is no option for replacing buttons.

On 19/01/24 10:49, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 1/18/24 16:34, Peter Moylan wrote: ...
>> Right click in the "header" area of the Thunderbird window,
>
> I'm running Thunderbird 115.6.0 on Ubuntu Linux 5.15.0-91-generic,
> and a right click in the "header" area has no effect.

Sorry. One of the annoying features of Thunderbird is that details like
this change from version to version, so an explanation for one version
won't necessarily work for another.

>> ... choose "Customize", and replace your "Reply" button with the
>> one called "Smart Reply".
>
> There is, however, a button labelled "More", and one of the options
> that comes up when I select "More" is "Customize...". When I select
> that option, a small number of aspects of the screen are customizable
> - but there is no option for replacing buttons.

On the version I'm using, you just drag a button from the "Customise"
window to the header subwindow, using the mouse. Or vice versa, to
remove a button.

But this is Thunderbird 38.8.0 for OS/2, so probably different from what
you have. Oh, and I'm using the traditional 3-pane layout -- I have a
feeling that that's an option that can be changed. And I also have the
CompactHeader addon installed.

I've just noticed that the "Customize" option exists for several
different parts of the Thunderbird window, so you might have to
experiment in different parts of the screen.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 18.01.2024 16:03, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> Google groups has gone.
>
> I've had to go to Mozilla ThunderBird and Eternal September.
>
> An hour to configure, and I think I replied to Kenny's personal email
> by accident.
>
> It's much less convenient.

The initial Thunderbird configuration is sick; they support a more
sensible "Smart Reply" feature but instead use an inappropriate one
as default. The user interface to fix that is non-intuitive, even if
you manage to land on the right window by accident after selecting
the "right" menu it's not intuitive. The menus also vary depending
on version (and probably also depending on platform), as I noticed,
and I had problems to find the right window again after an update.

Anyway, my suggestion to try is; right click on the 'Reply' button,
->"Customize...", then you can drag and drop from the new window
with the icons elements to the other window's bar and/or remove
'Reply' button by dragging it to the opened window. - This is what
at least works in my rather old Thunderbird version. - Good luck!

Once you've done the configuration it works pretty well, though.

Janis

On 19/01/24 22:55, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 18.01.2024 16:03, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> Google groups has gone.
>>
>> I've had to go to Mozilla ThunderBird and Eternal September.
>>
>> An hour to configure, and I think I replied to Kenny's personal
>> email by accident.
>>
>> It's much less convenient.
>
> The initial Thunderbird configuration is sick; they support a more
> sensible "Smart Reply" feature but instead use an inappropriate one
> as default. The user interface to fix that is non-intuitive, even if
> you manage to land on the right window by accident after selecting
> the "right" menu it's not intuitive. The menus also vary depending
> on version (and probably also depending on platform), as I noticed,
> and I had problems to find the right window again after an update.
>
> Anyway, my suggestion to try is; right click on the 'Reply' button,
> ->"Customize...", then you can drag and drop from the new window
> with the icons elements to the other window's bar and/or remove
> 'Reply' button by dragging it to the opened window. - This is what at
> least works in my rather old Thunderbird version. - Good luck!
>
> Once you've done the configuration it works pretty well, though.

Yes, that's exactly what I recommended. Get rid of the original "Reply"
button, and Thunderbird works a whole lot better.

In addition, earlier versions of Thunderbird work a whole lot better
than later versions. I'm using a fairly old version. I tried a later
version, but didn't like it. I have a lot of respect for the Thunderbird
development team, but I think they've been sucked in to the Microsoft
"bells and whistles" philosophy. In my opinion they need to delete a lot
of the bells, and even more of the whistles.

A pity. It was one of the best mail/news programs a few years ago. It's
still a whole lot better than Google Groups, but that's not saying much.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan wrote:

> Yes, that's exactly what I recommended. Get rid of the original "Reply"
> button, and Thunderbird works a whole lot better.
>
> In addition, earlier versions of Thunderbird work a whole lot better
> than later versions. I'm using a fairly old version. I tried a later
> version, but didn't like it. I have a lot of respect for the Thunderbird
> development team, but I think they've been sucked in to the Microsoft
> "bells and whistles" philosophy. In my opinion they need to delete a lot
> of the bells, and even more of the whistles.

I agree. I got so tired of Thunderbird that I chose to install Dialog
under Wine, though I prefer clean Linux programs. For my email I asked
for alternatives and was advised about Claws Mail. It's the best email
program that I have tried, small and effective. I think that it runs
under Windows too.

Claws can do Usenet groups as well, but I didn't like the very short
testing I did, but then I already knew Dialog from my Windows days.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Bertel Lund Hansen:

> I got so tired of Thunderbird that I chose to install
> Dialog under Wine, though I prefer clean Linux programs.

And there is not shortage of newsreaders for Linux.

> For my email I asked for alternatives and was advised
> about Claws Mail. It's the best email program that I have
> tried, small and effective. I think that it runs under
> Windows too.

Yes. Its full name is Claws of Sylpheed, and it is based on
Sylpheed, which I use for e-mail, Usenet, and Fidonet (via
an NNTP gateway), and mailing lists (via Gmane):

Sylpheed-Claws -- the email client that bites!

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