I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/

Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.

It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
>
> https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
>
> Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
>
> It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.

Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
-Joe C

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> >
> > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> >
> > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> >
> > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> -Joe C

And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.

Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > >
> > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > >
> > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > >
> > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > -Joe C
> And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
>
> Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?

Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".

Thank you,
Joe Cook

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > > >
> > > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > > -Joe C
> > And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
> >
> > Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?
> Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
> The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".
>
> Thank you,
> Joe Cook

Okay, I see you must be a "stickler for rules." Very well then. :-)~

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > > > >
> > > > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > > > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > > > -Joe C
> > > And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
> > >
> > > Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?
> > Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
> > The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Joe Cook
> Okay, I see you must be a "stickler for rules." Very well then. :-)~

Thanks. Strict adherence to the topic scope is a key reason why this is one of the only USENET groups that even still exists in a useable form.

Thank you,
--Joe C

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:05:28 PM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > > > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > > > > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > > > > -Joe C
> > > > And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
> > > >
> > > > Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?
> > > Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
> > > The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Joe Cook
> > Okay, I see you must be a "stickler for rules." Very well then. :-)~
> Thanks. Strict adherence to the topic scope is a key reason why this is one of the only USENET groups that even still exists in a useable form.
>
> Thank you,
> --Joe C

How fortunate the group has such an all-knowing police-person as yourself vetting every tidbit ...

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:13:30 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:05:28 PM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > > > > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > > > > > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > > > > > -Joe C
> > > > > And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
> > > > >
> > > > > Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?
> > > > Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
> > > > The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Joe Cook
> > > Okay, I see you must be a "stickler for rules." Very well then. :-)~
> > Thanks. Strict adherence to the topic scope is a key reason why this is one of the only USENET groups that even still exists in a useable form.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > --Joe C
> How fortunate the group has such an all-knowing police-person as yourself vetting every tidbit ...

Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
--Joe C

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:26:56 PM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:13:30 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:05:28 PM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 8:51:05 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> > > > > > > > I haven't verified the genealogy, but apparently Stockton Rush's wife was a great-great granddaughter of Isidor and Ida Straus, two passengers who went down with the Titanic in 1912.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.the-sun.com/news/8421925/stockton-rush-wife-wendy/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mr. Straus and his brother were the purchasers of R. H. Macy department store in New York from the Macy family.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It does sort of make you wonder about the whole purpose of OceanGate from the start.
> > > > > > > Just checked the dates on this, and none of the people above were born before 1600. Please remember alt.genealogy group is the most appropriate for these posts.
> > > > > > > -Joe C
> > > > > > And yet I see you haven't objected to the "present day" status of Chris Martin of Coldplay, Andrew Lloyd-Weber, King Charles III, Mr. Brice M. Clagett, or Edith Digby-Roper.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something about a couple obsessed with the wife's connection to the Titanic who set about duplicating the tragedy offends you?
> > > > > Please refer to the FAQ here for clarifications : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~medieval/faq.htm
> > > > > The topics you mention are valid under the scope of the group as "royal and noble descents".
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > Joe Cook
> > > > Okay, I see you must be a "stickler for rules." Very well then. :-)~
> > > Thanks. Strict adherence to the topic scope is a key reason why this is one of the only USENET groups that even still exists in a useable form.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > --Joe C
> > How fortunate the group has such an all-knowing police-person as yourself vetting every tidbit ...
> Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> --Joe C

Most of it within the confines of your own skull, apparently.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
<joecook@gmail.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

>Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.

28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
not too young ?

But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.

Denis

--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> not too young ?
>
> But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.

Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.

--Joe C

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > not too young ?
> >
> > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
>
> --Joe C

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12227509/King-Princess-great-great-grandparents-died-Titanic-slammed-mocking-sub-victims.html

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > not too young ?
> >
> > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
>
> --Joe C

Is that okay with you? It has the words "King" and "Princess" in the title..

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > not too young ?
> >
> > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
>
> --Joe C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_their_own_invention

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > not too young ?
> >
> > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
>
> --Joe C
Sounds like fun times indeed. Visions and ghosts? Wow. I've never experienced that LOL, though at times I "talk to" (I'm healthy, really) ancestors and others hoping for a hunch or a bit of intuition about a particularly knotty problem...

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:57:42 AM UTC-4, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > > not too young ?
> > >
> > > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> > Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
> >
> > --Joe C
> Sounds like fun times indeed. Visions and ghosts? Wow. I've never experienced that LOL, though at times I "talk to" (I'm healthy, really) ancestors and others hoping for a hunch or a bit of intuition about a particularly knotty problem...

That was John Schmeeckle, I think (however you spell it). He shared his original "ideas" about the Machell-Cudworth ancestry.

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, JBrand wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:57:42 AM UTC-4, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:42:37 AM UTC-4, joseph cook wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT), joseph cook
> > > > <joe> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
> > > > >Thanks. Two weeks ago I just hit my 28th anniversary in that role. It's been a wild ride.
> > > > 28 years ago I was in the committe that created SGM. Why do I feel
> > > > not too young ?
> > > >
> > > > But indeed, strict rules can be the reason for keeping this newsgroup
> > > > alive but also, perhaps, the critical mass required for that purpose.
> > > Thank you for that. I've been 99.9% a lurker all those years, but what fun times. I got to chat with the notorious D. Spencer Hines on the phone last year. I got to reach out to the brother of a man posting here about "visions" he had getting genealogical information from ghosts to ask him to stop; I've had the opportunity to help provide pre-publication feedback and editorial updates to chapters of Douglas RIchardson's books, and learned a bit along the way, enough to have articles published in The Genealogist journal and a few others. I've gotten to correspond with fascinating people like Leo Van de Pas. I can only hope that there is another 28 years of this to go or more.
> > >
> > > --Joe C
> > Sounds like fun times indeed. Visions and ghosts? Wow. I've never experienced that LOL, though at times I "talk to" (I'm healthy, really) ancestors and others hoping for a hunch or a bit of intuition about a particularly knotty problem...
> That was John Schmeeckle, I think (however you spell it). He shared his original "ideas" about the Machell-Cudworth ancestry.
As it happens, I'm on my way to Edinburgh today from my home in United States and am excited to visit the castle there, which I understand has a chapel dedicated to St. Margaret of Scotland. Will do my best not to ask 31st great-grandmother Margaret -- or Malcolm -- for any "ideas." Learned that I descend from this pair through a 17th-century French Canadian ancestor. I'll just get a photo and leave it at that!

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:24:46 AM UTC-7, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
> As it happens, I'm on my way to Edinburgh today from my home in United States and am excited to visit the castle there, which I understand has a chapel dedicated to St. Margaret of Scotland. Will do my best not to ask 31st great-grandmother Margaret -- or Malcolm -- for any "ideas." Learned that I descend from this pair through a 17th-century French Canadian ancestor. I'll just get a photo and leave it at that!

Umm. If you do find yourself talking to Malcolm and Margaret, and more importantly, if you find them talking to you, it would be a serious lost opportunity not to ask them each to name their maternal grandparents.

taf

As it turns out this lady has more interesting relatives. I poked at it a bit and then lost interest, but several many colonial lines.

Le mardi 27 juin 2023 à 23:56:01 UTC+2, Will Johnson a écrit :
> As it turns out this lady has more interesting relatives. I poked at it a bit and then lost interest, but several many colonial lines.

Could we have the results of your research?

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:13:04 AM UTC-7, Olivier wrote:
> Le mardi 27 juin 2023 à 23:56:01 UTC+2, Will Johnson a écrit :
> > As it turns out this lady has more interesting relatives. I poked at it a bit and then lost interest, but several many colonial lines.
> Could we have the results of your research?

You can use this as a base

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/190209680/family?cfpid=222488172910

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Meanwhile, (Richard) Stockton Rush III descended from at least two distinguished American historical figures, Benjamin Rush, a Signer of the Declaration of Independence (fourth great-grandfather) and Rush's father-in-law, Richard Stockton, another Signer. His father's paternal grandmother was Pauline (Biddle) Brock a member of the Biddle family of Philadelphia. This Princeton Alumni Weekly obituary for Stockton Rush III's father mentions the descent from Rush and Stockton. I haven't found any royal descents so I'll leave it at that.
>
> https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/r-stockton-rush-53

For what it's worth (probably not much), the late Richard Stockton Rush III appears to be a descendant of Robert Owen who married Rebecca Owen, a claimed gateway ancestor from Wales to Pennsylvania. Findagrave shows Richard Stockton Rush III as a grandson of Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, a daughter of John Penn Brock and Pauline Biddle (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193113079/deborah-norris-rush). If "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is to be believed, then Pauline (Biddle) Brock's father Alexander Biddle, who married Anne McKennon, was a descendant of one Robert Owen, thus:

Robert Owen = Rebecca Owen
Owen Owen = Ann Wood
Sarah Owen = John Biddle
Clement Biddle = Rebecca Cornell
Thomas Biddle = Christine Williams
Alexander Biddle = Julia Rush
Alexander Biddle = Anne McKennon

I say "probably not much" because "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is the source of not just the descent from Alexander Biddle to Robert Owen, but apparently also of the alleged royal descent of this Robert Owen (apparently distinct from another Welsh Pennsylvania settler Robert Owen who married a Jane Vaughan, whose royal descent has been questioned as well). It's one of those "traditional" Welsh noble ancestries which were imported, perhaps credulously, from "Merion in the Welsh Tract" into later sources considered more reputable, like the royal descent compilations of Browning, Weis and Roberts, from which it has widely disseminated. But I believe that Stewart Baldwin has written multiple articles in TAG refuting similar Welsh Pennsylvania royal descent claims, so I'm quite skeptical. Perhaps he will have some input here.

But overall, given the number and prominence of the New England surnames I've encountered so far in his ancestry, I wouldn't be surprised to find a more reliable gateway ancestor eventually.

-Elizabeth A

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 1:50:36 AM UTC-4, Elizabeth A wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Meanwhile, (Richard) Stockton Rush III descended from at least two distinguished American historical figures, Benjamin Rush, a Signer of the Declaration of Independence (fourth great-grandfather) and Rush's father-in-law, Richard Stockton, another Signer. His father's paternal grandmother was Pauline (Biddle) Brock a member of the Biddle family of Philadelphia. This Princeton Alumni Weekly obituary for Stockton Rush III's father mentions the descent from Rush and Stockton. I haven't found any royal descents so I'll leave it at that.
> >
> > https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/r-stockton-rush-53
> For what it's worth (probably not much), the late Richard Stockton Rush III appears to be a descendant of Robert Owen who married Rebecca Owen, a claimed gateway ancestor from Wales to Pennsylvania. Findagrave shows Richard Stockton Rush III as a grandson of Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, a daughter of John Penn Brock and Pauline Biddle (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193113079/deborah-norris-rush). If "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is to be believed, then Pauline (Biddle) Brock's father Alexander Biddle, who married Anne McKennon, was a descendant of one Robert Owen, thus:
>
> Robert Owen = Rebecca Owen
> Owen Owen = Ann Wood
> Sarah Owen = John Biddle
> Clement Biddle = Rebecca Cornell
> Thomas Biddle = Christine Williams
> Alexander Biddle = Julia Rush
> Alexander Biddle = Anne McKennon
>
> I say "probably not much" because "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is the source of not just the descent from Alexander Biddle to Robert Owen, but apparently also of the alleged royal descent of this Robert Owen (apparently distinct from another Welsh Pennsylvania settler Robert Owen who married a Jane Vaughan, whose royal descent has been questioned as well). It's one of those "traditional" Welsh noble ancestries which were imported, perhaps credulously, from "Merion in the Welsh Tract" into later sources considered more reputable, like the royal descent compilations of Browning, Weis and Roberts, from which it has widely disseminated. But I believe that Stewart Baldwin has written multiple articles in TAG refuting similar Welsh Pennsylvania royal descent claims, so I'm quite skeptical. Perhaps he will have some input here.
>
> But overall, given the number and prominence of the New England surnames I've encountered so far in his ancestry, I wouldn't be surprised to find a more reliable gateway ancestor eventually.
>
> -Elizabeth A

Well done! Despite your skepticism of "Merion in the Welsh Tract," apparently you found two royal descents for Richard Stockton Rush III, I used https://www.google.com/books/edition/Encyclopedia_of_Pennsylvania_Biography/CuYsAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22brock,+john+penn%22&pg=PA1044-IA16&printsec=frontcover (Page 1048) to link Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, b. Nov. 30, 1909, Rush's paternal grandmother, to her parents John Penn Brock & Pauline Biddle, then this, https://www.google.com/books/edition/Colonial_Families_of_Philadelphia/B0Y2AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22pauline+biddle%22&pg=PA184&printsec=frontcover (Page 184) to trace Pauline (Biddle) Brock's paternal ancestry. Two pages prior, in covering Thomas Biddle and Christine Williams, a third connection to a Signer is mentioned, Christine's father, Gen. Jonathan Williams, said to be a nephew of "Dr." Benjamin Franklin.
Gary Boyd Roberts's 2018 edition of "The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants ....," lists a Robert Owen, of Pa. = Rebecca Owen (sometimes called Rebecca Humphrey[s]) on page 651 showing him 18th in descent from John "Lackland," King of England =(2) Isabel of Angouleme and the same Rebecca Owen of Pa.. = Robert Owen, of Pa. on page 510 showing her 15th in descent Edward I, King of England and Eleanor of Castile.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 1:50:36 AM UTC-4, Elizabeth A wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Meanwhile, (Richard) Stockton Rush III descended from at least two distinguished American historical figures, Benjamin Rush, a Signer of the Declaration of Independence (fourth great-grandfather) and Rush's father-in-law, Richard Stockton, another Signer. His father's paternal grandmother was Pauline (Biddle) Brock a member of the Biddle family of Philadelphia. This Princeton Alumni Weekly obituary for Stockton Rush III's father mentions the descent from Rush and Stockton. I haven't found any royal descents so I'll leave it at that.
> >
> > https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/r-stockton-rush-53
> For what it's worth (probably not much), the late Richard Stockton Rush III appears to be a descendant of Robert Owen who married Rebecca Owen, a claimed gateway ancestor from Wales to Pennsylvania. Findagrave shows Richard Stockton Rush III as a grandson of Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, a daughter of John Penn Brock and Pauline Biddle (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193113079/deborah-norris-rush). If "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is to be believed, then Pauline (Biddle) Brock's father Alexander Biddle, who married Anne McKennon, was a descendant of one Robert Owen, thus:
>
> Robert Owen = Rebecca Owen
> Owen Owen = Ann Wood
> Sarah Owen = John Biddle
> Clement Biddle = Rebecca Cornell
> Thomas Biddle = Christine Williams
> Alexander Biddle = Julia Rush
> Alexander Biddle = Anne McKennon
>
> I say "probably not much" because "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is the source of not just the descent from Alexander Biddle to Robert Owen, but apparently also of the alleged royal descent of this Robert Owen (apparently distinct from another Welsh Pennsylvania settler Robert Owen who married a Jane Vaughan, whose royal descent has been questioned as well). It's one of those "traditional" Welsh noble ancestries which were imported, perhaps credulously, from "Merion in the Welsh Tract" into later sources considered more reputable, like the royal descent compilations of Browning, Weis and Roberts, from which it has widely disseminated. But I believe that Stewart Baldwin has written multiple articles in TAG refuting similar Welsh Pennsylvania royal descent claims, so I'm quite skeptical. Perhaps he will have some input here.
>
> But overall, given the number and prominence of the New England surnames I've encountered so far in his ancestry, I wouldn't be surprised to find a more reliable gateway ancestor eventually.
>
> -Elizabeth A

Of course, there's always Sydney Biddle Barrows to claim as "kin" ...

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 5:54:17 AM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 1:50:36 AM UTC-4, Elizabeth A wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Meanwhile, (Richard) Stockton Rush III descended from at least two distinguished American historical figures, Benjamin Rush, a Signer of the Declaration of Independence (fourth great-grandfather) and Rush's father-in-law, Richard Stockton, another Signer. His father's paternal grandmother was Pauline (Biddle) Brock a member of the Biddle family of Philadelphia. This Princeton Alumni Weekly obituary for Stockton Rush III's father mentions the descent from Rush and Stockton. I haven't found any royal descents so I'll leave it at that.
> > >
> > > https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/r-stockton-rush-53
> > For what it's worth (probably not much), the late Richard Stockton Rush III appears to be a descendant of Robert Owen who married Rebecca Owen, a claimed gateway ancestor from Wales to Pennsylvania. Findagrave shows Richard Stockton Rush III as a grandson of Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, a daughter of John Penn Brock and Pauline Biddle (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193113079/deborah-norris-rush). If "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is to be believed, then Pauline (Biddle) Brock's father Alexander Biddle, who married Anne McKennon, was a descendant of one Robert Owen, thus:
> >
> > Robert Owen = Rebecca Owen
> > Owen Owen = Ann Wood
> > Sarah Owen = John Biddle
> > Clement Biddle = Rebecca Cornell
> > Thomas Biddle = Christine Williams
> > Alexander Biddle = Julia Rush
> > Alexander Biddle = Anne McKennon
> >
> > I say "probably not much" because "Merion in the Welsh Tract" is the source of not just the descent from Alexander Biddle to Robert Owen, but apparently also of the alleged royal descent of this Robert Owen (apparently distinct from another Welsh Pennsylvania settler Robert Owen who married a Jane Vaughan, whose royal descent has been questioned as well). It's one of those "traditional" Welsh noble ancestries which were imported, perhaps credulously, from "Merion in the Welsh Tract" into later sources considered more reputable, like the royal descent compilations of Browning, Weis and Roberts, from which it has widely disseminated. But I believe that Stewart Baldwin has written multiple articles in TAG refuting similar Welsh Pennsylvania royal descent claims, so I'm quite skeptical. Perhaps he will have some input here.
> >
> > But overall, given the number and prominence of the New England surnames I've encountered so far in his ancestry, I wouldn't be surprised to find a more reliable gateway ancestor eventually.
> >
> > -Elizabeth A
> Well done! Despite your skepticism of "Merion in the Welsh Tract," apparently you found two royal descents for Richard Stockton Rush III, I used https://www.google.com/books/edition/Encyclopedia_of_Pennsylvania_Biography/CuYsAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22brock,+john+penn%22&pg=PA1044-IA16&printsec=frontcover (Page 1048) to link Deborah Norris (Brock) Rush, b. Nov.. 30, 1909, Rush's paternal grandmother, to her parents John Penn Brock & Pauline Biddle, then this, https://www.google.com/books/edition/Colonial_Families_of_Philadelphia/B0Y2AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22pauline+biddle%22&pg=PA184&printsec=frontcover (Page 184) to trace Pauline (Biddle) Brock's paternal ancestry. Two pages prior, in covering Thomas Biddle and Christine Williams, a third connection to a Signer is mentioned, Christine's father, Gen. Jonathan Williams, said to be a nephew of "Dr." Benjamin Franklin.
> Gary Boyd Roberts's 2018 edition of "The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants ...," lists a Robert Owen, of Pa. = Rebecca Owen (sometimes called Rebecca Humphrey[s]) on page 651 showing him 18th in descent from John "Lackland," King of England =(2) Isabel of Angouleme and the same Rebecca Owen of Pa. = Robert Owen, of Pa. on page 510 showing her 15th in descent Edward I, King of England and Eleanor of Castile.

For what it's worth (but again, I caution, not much), John Penn Brock, per Findagrave, was the grandson of George Dawson Coleman and Deborah Norris Brown, a great-great-great-granddaughter of Thomas Lloyd, if John Woof Jordan's "Colonial And Revolutionary Families Of Pennsylvania" is to be believed:

(Lt/Acting) Gov. Thomas Lloyd
Mary Lloyd = Isaac Norris
Charles Norris = Mary Parker
Joseph Parker Norris = Elizabeth Hill Fox
Deborah Norris = William Brown
Deborah Norris Brown = George Dawson Coleman

Thomas Lloyd appears to be another one of those Welsh Pennsylvanians whose royal descent is "traditional." Ironically, it appears that one Stewart Baldwin's two articles I noticed that reminded me of these issues concerns him: "The Supposed Royal Ancestry of the Lloyd Siblings of Pennsylvania," The American Genealogist 71 (1996): 85-6 (though I suppose this could be another Lloyd family, as it seems a common Welsh surname). The identity of his wife, Mary Jones, is also disputed (see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Jones-3856).

-Elizabeth A