Dear All,

I am researching the Lewknor family of Sussex. I am searching for sources for Bennet Lewknor, the daughter of Richard Lewknor Esq of Sheffeld manor near Fletching Sussex. Richard is the son of Sir Roger Lewknor d1478. Richard is mentioned in his father’s will where he was bequeathed the manor of Sheffeld.

Here I have listed what I have found.

Bennet the daughter of Richard appears in some visitations but not all:
SAC Vol 3 Page 98 https://books.google.fr/books?id=VekGAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA98&ots=st7aQxYxZQ&dq=English+Barts.+Ed.1741,+vol.i,+p.212&pg=PA96&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bennetta&f=false

Bennet is shown as the daughter of Richard Lewknor and “Miss Michelgrove”. Bennet is shown to have married 3 times firstly to William Barnes, secondly to Thomas Twysden and thirdly to Vincent Finch.

Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees.

The baronetage of England : containing a genealogical and historical account of all the English baronets Page 90
https://archive.org/details/baronetageofengl01wott/page/90/mode/2up
Bennet is the wife of Thomas Twysden and daughter of Richard and the relict of William Barnes and afterwards wife of Vincent Finch.

She is not in the visitation of Sussex (Harleian Society Vol LXXX 1530 by Thomas Benolte – Page 26
https://archive.org/details/visitationscoun00banngoog/page/n43/mode/2up?view=theater&q=Lewknor
Bennet is not mentioned as a daughter of Richard Lewknor.

WILLS
Bennet’s 3 husbands all left wills.
William Barnes of Wye, Kent 1479 – mentions his wife & 3 daughters – no Lewknor names given.

Thomas Twysden of Great Chart 1500 - mentions his wife & children – mentions an Alexander Lewknor. This alexander Lewknor is probably from Challock who had a brother Richard Lewknor who married Eleanor Towne of Throwley, Kent. Eleanor was the dau of Thomas Towne (an MP) and Benedicta Detling.. Eleanor had a sister Bennet/Benedicta. Richard died in 1479 & left a will (mentions his brother Alexander and children Thomas, Reginald & Elizabeth).. There are several online trees where Bennet Lewknor is the daughter of Richard & Eleanor (nee Towne) Lewknor of Throwley.

Vincent Finch of Sandhurst 1523 – Mentions his wife Beatrice probably mis transcription of Bennet. Two Twysden names given probably children of Bennett.

Bennet is buried in Great Chart, Kent next to her 2nd husband Thomas Twysden. (Monumental Inscription).

I cannot find any primary sources where Bennet is given as the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld, Sussuex. In the national archives, Richard’s children are listed but not Bennet:

C1/330/38 - Lewkenour v Lewkenour - Plaintiffs: John, Richard, John the younger, Agnes, Joan, Eleanor, and Anne, children of Richard Lewkenour, deceased.
Defendants: John Lewkenour, clerk, John Erneley, the elder and the younger, John Apesley, and Thomas Thetcher, feoffees to uses.
Subject: Rent charged on the manor of Sheffeld (Annexed is an interpleader by Roger Lewkenour, eldest son of the said Richard.) Decree endorsed 6 May, 21 Henry VII (1506).
Sussex. Date: 1504-1515.

Does anyone have any ideas as to where to look? There is a question mark over her parents as seen from the Alexander Lewknor connection given in Thomas Twysden’s will.

Many thanks in advance

Gillian

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 6:37:42 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am researching the Lewknor family of Sussex. I am searching for sources for Bennet Lewknor, the daughter of Richard Lewknor Esq of Sheffeld manor near Fletching Sussex. Richard is the son of Sir Roger Lewknor d1478. Richard is mentioned in his father’s will where he was bequeathed the manor of Sheffeld.
>
> Here I have listed what I have found.
>
> Bennet the daughter of Richard appears in some visitations but not all:
> SAC Vol 3 Page 98 https://books.google.fr/books?id=VekGAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA98&ots=st7aQxYxZQ&dq=English+Barts.+Ed.1741,+vol.i,+p.212&pg=PA96&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bennetta&f=false
>

This isn't a visitation
This is a paper by William Durrant Cooper, presented in 1849 purporting to correct the Lewknor family pedigrees

>

On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 18:15:55 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 6:37:42 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am researching the Lewknor family of Sussex. I am searching for sources for Bennet Lewknor, the daughter of Richard Lewknor Esq of Sheffeld manor near Fletching Sussex. Richard is the son of Sir Roger Lewknor d1478. Richard is mentioned in his father’s will where he was bequeathed the manor of Sheffeld.
> >
> > Here I have listed what I have found.
> >
> > Bennet the daughter of Richard appears in some visitations but not all:
> > SAC Vol 3 Page 98 https://books.google.fr/books?id=VekGAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA98&ots=st7aQxYxZQ&dq=English+Barts.+Ed.1741,+vol.i,+p.212&pg=PA96&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bennetta&f=false
> >
> This isn't a visitation
> This is a paper by William Durrant Cooper, presented in 1849 purporting to correct the Lewknor family pedigrees
>
>
> >
OK, Thanks for the clarification.

There is a possibility that Thomas Wotton, from whom William Durrant Cooper relayed his information, got this incorrect. Sir Thomas Lewknor was attainted, more or less around this time period and perhaps Benedicta "Bennet" didn't really care about publicizing her connection to a traitor, the attainder was not reversed within her lifetime. He could be her actual father.

On Friday, 18 August 2023 at 20:19:21 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> There is a possibility that Thomas Wotton, from whom William Durrant Cooper relayed his information, got this incorrect. Sir Thomas Lewknor was attainted, more or less around this time period and perhaps Benedicta "Bennet" didn't really care about publicizing her connection to a traitor, the attainder was not reversed within her lifetime. He could be her actual father.

Interesting theory, however, Thomas Lewkenor (son Roger) married Katherine Bramshott nee Pelham after 1468. Katherine's first husband John Bramshott died in 1468 according to Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry. Bennet was married with three daughters in 1479 (will of her 1st husband William Barnes of Wye, Kent 1479), therefore the timeline doesn't fit.

Maybe Bennet isn't a part of this Lewknor family at all and comes from the Lewkenors of Challock/Throwley, villages not far from Wye where William Barnes comes from?

"
Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "

Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> "
> Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover

On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > "
> > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover

There are two Richard Lewknors:

1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.

2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.

I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > "
> > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> There are two Richard Lewknors:
>
> 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
>
> 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
>
> I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.

In this time period, land could only be passed to an heir male by an IPM, so the IPM would not mention daughters.
Her lands if any could be part of her maritagium (Marriage portion) but she would not inherit more upon his death necessarily.

Do you have a link directly to that published IPM?

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > "
> > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> There are two Richard Lewknors:
>
> 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
>
> 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
>
> I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.

Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
You didn't answer that

Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?

On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > "
> > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> >
> > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> >
> > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> >
> > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> You didn't answer that
>
> Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?

Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor

I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:

1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas

What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.

On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > "
> > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > >
> > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > >
> > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > >
> > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > You didn't answer that
> >
> > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
>
> I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
>
> 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
>
> What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.

Link doesn't work.

Cannot do a screenshot either!

If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.

Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > >
> > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > You didn't answer that
> > >
> > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> >
> > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> >
> > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> >
> > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> Link doesn't work.
>
> Cannot do a screenshot either!
>
> If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
>
> Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.

This work is in multiple volumes, so you need to specify the volume as well

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > >
> > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > You didn't answer that
> > >
> > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> >
> > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> >
> > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> >
> > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> Link doesn't work.
>
> Cannot do a screenshot either!
>
> If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
>
> Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.

I have found it
https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q
I don't know that this is the same person
Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:22:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > > You didn't answer that
> > > >
> > > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> > >
> > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> > >
> > > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> > >
> > > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> > >
> > > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> > Link doesn't work.
> >
> > Cannot do a screenshot either!
> >
> > If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
> >
> > Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.
> I have found it
> https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
>
> I don't know that this is the same person
> Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?

By the way there is another IPM here since he held in multiple counties evidently

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Calendar_of_Inquisitions_Post_Mortem_Hen/d8ROAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Lewknor

On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:22:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > > > You didn't answer that
> > > > >
> > > > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > > > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> > > >
> > > > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > > > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> > > >
> > > > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> > > Link doesn't work.
> > >
> > > Cannot do a screenshot either!
> > >
> > > If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
> > >
> > > Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.
> > I have found it
> > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
> >
> > I don't know that this is the same person
> > Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?
> By the way there is another IPM here since he held in multiple counties evidently
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Calendar_of_Inquisitions_Post_Mortem_Hen/d8ROAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Lewknor
Thanks, hadn't seen that one.

Here is a national archive document referring to same manors and refers to Richard as of Brambletye:

Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford. Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley. Defendants: Richard...
Reference: C 1/304/8
Description:
Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford.
Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley.
Defendants: Richard Gyldeford, Robert Broughton, John Wingefeld, and Thomas Lacy, feoffees to uses.
Subject: Refusal to complete a sale of the manors of Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and another, late of Francis, nephew and heir of Richard Lewkenour, of Brambletye.
Sussex.
Date: 1504-1515

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:36:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:22:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > > > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > > > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > > > > You didn't answer that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > > > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > > > > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> > > > >
> > > > > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > > > > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> > > > >
> > > > > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> > > > Link doesn't work.
> > > >
> > > > Cannot do a screenshot either!
> > > >
> > > > If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
> > > >
> > > > Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.
> > > I have found it
> > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
> > >
> > > I don't know that this is the same person
> > > Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?
> > By the way there is another IPM here since he held in multiple counties evidently
> >
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Calendar_of_Inquisitions_Post_Mortem_Hen/d8ROAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Lewknor
> Thanks, hadn't seen that one.
>
> Here is a national archive document referring to same manors and refers to Richard as of Brambletye:
>
> Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford. Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley. Defendants: Richard...
> Reference: C 1/304/8
> Description:
> Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford.
> Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley.
> Defendants: Richard Gyldeford, Robert Broughton, John Wingefeld, and Thomas Lacy, feoffees to uses.
> Subject: Refusal to complete a sale of the manors of Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and another, late of Francis, nephew and heir of Richard Lewkenour, of Brambletye.
> Sussex.
> Date: 1504-1515

I think the way forward to to find older references to Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt.... to see how Richard had these in his hand when he died.

On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:42:52 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:36:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:22:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > > > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > > > > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > > > > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > > > > > You didn't answer that
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > > > > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > > > > > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > > > > > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> > > > > Link doesn't work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cannot do a screenshot either!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.
> > > > I have found it
> > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
> > > >
> > > > I don't know that this is the same person
> > > > Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?
> > > By the way there is another IPM here since he held in multiple counties evidently
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Calendar_of_Inquisitions_Post_Mortem_Hen/d8ROAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Lewknor
> > Thanks, hadn't seen that one.
> >
> > Here is a national archive document referring to same manors and refers to Richard as of Brambletye:
> >
> > Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford. Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley. Defendants: Richard...
> > Reference: C 1/304/8
> > Description:
> > Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford.
> > Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley.
> > Defendants: Richard Gyldeford, Robert Broughton, John Wingefeld, and Thomas Lacy, feoffees to uses.
> > Subject: Refusal to complete a sale of the manors of Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and another, late of Francis, nephew and heir of Richard Lewkenour, of Brambletye.
> > Sussex.
> > Date: 1504-1515
> I think the way forward to to find older references to Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt.... to see how Richard had these in his hand when he died.

Looks like these manors were bought by Richard from his half brother Sir Roger Lewknor d1478.

C 1/329/3 1504-1515
Plaintiffs: John Kyrton.
Defendants: Richard, brother of Roger Lewkenour, [knight].
Subject: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of Sheffeld, Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and Gretham, bought of the said Roger. Sussex

Brambletye comes from the St Cler family, Elizabeth St Cler wife of Richard..

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:04:45 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:42:52 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:36:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 8:22:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 16:36:18 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:37:14 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 18:44:16 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > > > > Visitation of Kent 1619 Page 135
> > > > > > > > > > > https://archive.org/details/visitationofkent00camd/page/134/mode/2up
> > > > > > > > > > > This is a pedigree of the Twysden family and Bennet Lewknor is shown as the wife of Thomas Twysden. She is described as the daughter of Richard but incorrectly says that Richard is the son of Thomas. This mistake is seen in many other trees. "
> > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain better why you think called Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect?
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Illust/VekGAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+/Lewknor/+of+Brambletye&pg=PA95&printsec=frontcover
> > > > > > > > > There are two Richard Lewknors:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) Richard Lewknor Esq of Brambletye, son of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Echingham (SAC Vol 3 Page 95). Richard was known as Richard Lewknor the elder. He was an MP for East Grinstead and he married Elizabeth St Clere. He died in before 1506 as his IPM was in that year (Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after Sussex Vol 23 No 253). In his IPM there are no direct heirs so I assume no children. His heir is his nephew Francis Lewknor the son of his brother Thomas Lewknor. This is why I think that Richard the son of Thomas is incorrect in the Twysden pedigree and other visitations.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2) Richard Lewknor known as the younger because of his uncle Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor of Trotton d1478 (elder half brother of Richard the elder). Richard was of Sheffeld. This Richard had many children as detailed in C1/330/38. I cannot find a will or IPM. SAC Vol 3 Page 98 has Bennet dau of this Richard. Various visitations do not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have assumed that the SAC Vol 3 Page 98 was more reliable and that the visitations were incorrect with the same "mistakes" copied from one to the next. However, I cannot find any sources for Bennet being the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sheffeld. That is why I looked at the Lewknors of Challock and Throwley as Thomas Twysden (2nd husband of Bennet) refers to Alexander Lewknor.
> > > > > > > > Also what I was asking is why do you not think that Richard and Thomas were both sons of
> > > > > > > > Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt who died 22 Jun 1452
> > > > > > > > You didn't answer that
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do you think Roger was his half brother and not his full brother
> > > > > > > > All three sons of Phillipa Dallingridge ?
> > > > > > > Here is the link to the IPM. It is in a book available at familysearch.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=search&n=0&q=lewkenor
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I do think that Sir Thomas Lewknor d1452 had two sons Thomas & Richard (the elder of Brambletye). Sir Thomas d1452 the father had two wives:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) Phillipe Dalyngrudge - one son Roger d1478 of Trotton (he is the father of Richard the younger)
> > > > > > > 2) Elizabeth Echingham - many children of which Richard of Brambletye and Thomas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I didn't believe was that Bennet was the daughter of Richard of Brambletye as he had no direct heirs, however, you say that it could be possible he had daughters.
> > > > > > Link doesn't work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cannot do a screenshot either!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you put "Post Mortem Inquisitions" Sussex in the search in the link, the IPM is in the book: Notes of Post Mortem Inquisitions taken in Sussex, 1 Henry VII to 1649 and after.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard Lewkenor is on page 143.
> > > > > I have found it
> > > > > https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/99378/?offset=&return=1#page=158&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know that this is the same person
> > > > > Do you have some indication that he actually owned these manors listed?
> > > > By the way there is another IPM here since he held in multiple counties evidently
> > > >
> > > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Calendar_of_Inquisitions_Post_Mortem_Hen/d8ROAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Lewknor
> > > Thanks, hadn't seen that one.
> > >
> > > Here is a national archive document referring to same manors and refers to Richard as of Brambletye:
> > >
> > > Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford. Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley. Defendants: Richard...
> > > Reference: C 1/304/8
> > > Description:
> > > Short title: Dudeley v Gyldeford.
> > > Plaintiffs: Edmund Dudeley.
> > > Defendants: Richard Gyldeford, Robert Broughton, John Wingefeld, and Thomas Lacy, feoffees to uses.
> > > Subject: Refusal to complete a sale of the manors of Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and another, late of Francis, nephew and heir of Richard Lewkenour, of Brambletye.
> > > Sussex.
> > > Date: 1504-1515
> > I think the way forward to to find older references to Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt.... to see how Richard had these in his hand when he died.
> Looks like these manors were bought by Richard from his half brother Sir Roger Lewknor d1478.
>
> C 1/329/3 1504-1515
> Plaintiffs: John Kyrton.
> Defendants: Richard, brother of Roger Lewkenour, [knight].
> Subject: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of Sheffeld, Bargham, Beauxcy, Wiggenholt, and Gretham, bought of the said Roger. Sussex
>
> Brambletye comes from the St Cler family, Elizabeth St Cler wife of Richard.

Is it possible to form a cogent descent of Gretham ?
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159

I note this was a Tregoz property and evidently descended down to Richard this way

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:31:17 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> In this time period, land could only be passed to an heir male by an IPM, so the IPM would not mention daughters.

I think I know what you were trying to say, but the plain reading of this might lead the naïve reader astray.

1. An IPM investigated to whom the land had passed - it was a record of what had happened through inheritance law, not the mechanism by which it happened.

2. There was no restriction to heirs male. Standard English inheritance operated via male primogeniture/female partition. If there were any sons, they would inherit, in order of age. Were there no sons, then any daughters would share equally, and lacking that it would go back the pedigree applying the same rules in each prior generation - males as sole heir in order of birth, females sharing if there were no males in that generation. That is different than inheritance by heir male, which excludes females and anyone descended via females.

3. An IPM would indeed mention daughters under specific circumstances. Obviously, if there was no son then any daughter would be named as a (co)heiress. As a corollary to this, if the deceased had multiple wives, exercised a life tenure on land of one of those wives, and that wife only had daughters, then even if the deceased had sons by a different wife the daughters would be named as heiresses of the specific land in question. In rare cases a daughter would be mentioned if there was alienation of land in her favor. I have seen this happen two different ways - one is that prior ownership of land would be brought up but then dismissed because it had been alienated at some time in the past to a daughter; second, if a fine had previously been executed, whereby the deceased was to hold the land for life with remainder to the daughter, that fine would be reported and she would be named as heiress to the land in question via reversion rather than standard inheritance.

taf

Bargham Manor descended through the Tregoz

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159
See IPM of Joan late the wife of Edward St John
Writ 22 Nov 10R2
Edward, son of her son Richard, and aged 8 is her heir
she held Bargham Manor

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/6/66/Tregoz-9.jpg

In this chart her heir, this Edward is said to have d.s.p. sup.

What does sup mean in this context?

On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 19:45:57 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> Bargham Manor descended through the Tregoz
>
> https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159
> See IPM of Joan late the wife of Edward St John
> Writ 22 Nov 10R2
> Edward, son of her son Richard, and aged 8 is her heir
> she held Bargham Manor
>
> https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/6/66/Tregoz-9.jpg
>
> In this chart her heir, this Edward is said to have d.s.p. sup.
>
> What does sup mean in this context?
Sup usually means below?

Is the author of the chart drawing the readers' attention to the footnote below?

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 19:45:57 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > Bargham Manor descended through the Tregoz
> >
> > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159
> > See IPM of Joan late the wife of Edward St John
> > Writ 22 Nov 10R2
> > Edward, son of her son Richard, and aged 8 is her heir
> > she held Bargham Manor
> >
> > https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/6/66/Tregoz-9.jpg
> >
> > In this chart her heir, this Edward is said to have d.s.p. sup.
> >

This Edward died 1400 s.p. his heir was his uncle John then "Aet 30" the fifth son of Sir Henry Tregoz and Joan

This John only held his properties a short time, himself dying 1405 also s.p.
When his heir is found to be Thomas Lewknor son of Roger son of Joan daughter of Margaret (Tregoz) D'Oyley, the sister of his father

This then explains how Bargham Manor came to the Lewknors
and ended up in the hands of Richard Lewknor at his 1503 death

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:55:14 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 19:45:57 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > Bargham Manor descended through the Tregoz
> > >
> > > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159
> > > See IPM of Joan late the wife of Edward St John
> > > Writ 22 Nov 10R2
> > > Edward, son of her son Richard, and aged 8 is her heir
> > > she held Bargham Manor
> > >
> > > https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/6/66/Tregoz-9.jpg
> > >
> > > In this chart her heir, this Edward is said to have d.s.p. sup.
> > >
> This Edward died 1400 s.p. his heir was his uncle John then "Aet 30" the fifth son of Sir Henry Tregoz and Joan
>
> This John only held his properties a short time, himself dying 1405 also s.p.
> When his heir is found to be Thomas Lewknor son of Roger son of Joan daughter of Margaret (Tregoz) D'Oyley, the sister of his father
>
> This then explains how Bargham Manor came to the Lewknors
> and ended up in the hands of Richard Lewknor at his 1503 death

On the flip side we have an article in Top. et Gen. V2 1853 which states that the lands of Bennet were divided by her [distant] heirs in 1540

https://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=bennett%20honywood%20moyle&pg=PA269#v=onepage&q=bennett%20honywood%20moyle&f=false
Top.and.Gen. V2, 1853, pg 269
Honywood Evidences
"dead by 7 Oct 31H8 (1539-40) when her heirs divided her lands"

If that document could be found, we could know what her lands actually were at that time

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 1:37:28 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:55:14 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 19:45:57 UTC+2, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > Bargham Manor descended through the Tregoz
> > > >
> > > > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp143-159
> > > > See IPM of Joan late the wife of Edward St John
> > > > Writ 22 Nov 10R2
> > > > Edward, son of her son Richard, and aged 8 is her heir
> > > > she held Bargham Manor
> > > >
> > > > https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/6/66/Tregoz-9.jpg
> > > >
> > > > In this chart her heir, this Edward is said to have d.s.p. sup.
> > > >
> > This Edward died 1400 s.p. his heir was his uncle John then "Aet 30" the fifth son of Sir Henry Tregoz and Joan
> >
> > This John only held his properties a short time, himself dying 1405 also s.p.
> > When his heir is found to be Thomas Lewknor son of Roger son of Joan daughter of Margaret (Tregoz) D'Oyley, the sister of his father
> >
> > This then explains how Bargham Manor came to the Lewknors
> > and ended up in the hands of Richard Lewknor at his 1503 death
> On the flip side we have an article in Top. et Gen. V2 1853 which states that the lands of Bennet were divided by her [distant] heirs in 1540
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=bennett%20honywood%20moyle&pg=PA269#v=onepage&q=bennett%20honywood%20moyle&f=false
> Top.and.Gen. V2, 1853, pg 269
> Honywood Evidences
> "dead by 7 Oct 31H8 (1539-40) when her heirs divided her lands"
>
> If that document could be found, we could know what her lands actually were at that time

This article actually starts some years earlier
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Topographer_and_Genealogist/CBwIAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA569&printsec=frontcover

And the accounts *appear* to be copied from a folio written by Robert /Honywood/ of Royton, co Kent 1545-1627

The person in question Benedicta "Bennet" Lewknor would be his great-grandmother