On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:30:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/19/2023 9:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:26:38 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> krw@notreal.com wrote in news:q18hsh5r4lf6b69mn8iqro37h3qrq722e2@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 09:50:39 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm stuck on Sketchup Make 2017 because of poor business decisions.
>>>>> Software as a service, renting software, programs running exclusively
>>>>> online... It's just not a world I can trust.
>>>>
>>>> I'm the same, though it's getting harder and harder to do. I just
>>>> "rented" Shaper Studio. I'm not all that happy about it but it wasn't
>>>> all that expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>
>> The price for the personal/workshop version is at the right price
>> point. SVG and DXF support makes it a potential SketchUp killer for
>> me.
>
>SVG and DXF Support. That will likely require a plug in which may be
>free and may require extra cash. DXF is supported tith Sketchup Pro and
>the SVG plug in, the one I use, is free. Food for thought. And yes it
>could be a Sketchup killer but Sketchup is to well suited for woodworking.

Good point. I was thinking about Shaper use. Looking into it some
more, it would probably be better for a 3D printer than woodworking. I
have enough to learn without getting into 3D.
>>
>> It does have a $50/yr maintenance cost.
>
>In that case, maybe not much better than the Pro version of Sketchup.
>Sketch up requires annual maintenance for updates and quite a bit more
>but Sketchup Pro updates are not necessary to continue using the program.
>
>
>>
>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward those guys
>>> with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>
>Yes! Let us know. While the licensing terms are more reasonable than
>Sketchup, Sketchup is a load more reasonable than AutoCAD, a program I
>used for years.
>
Isn't AutoCAD 2D only?

>If I consider how many years I used Sketchup for free, the new Pro
>pricing is easier to swallow.
>
I find paying for it harder to swallow. ;-)
>
>>
>> Me too. Thanks for linking it. I'll have to download the trial soon.

On 1/21/2023 10:49 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:30:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2023 9:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:26:38 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw@notreal.com wrote in news:q18hsh5r4lf6b69mn8iqro37h3qrq722e2@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 09:50:39 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm stuck on Sketchup Make 2017 because of poor business decisions.
>>>>>> Software as a service, renting software, programs running exclusively
>>>>>> online... It's just not a world I can trust.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm the same, though it's getting harder and harder to do. I just
>>>>> "rented" Shaper Studio. I'm not all that happy about it but it wasn't
>>>>> all that expensive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>
>>> The price for the personal/workshop version is at the right price
>>> point. SVG and DXF support makes it a potential SketchUp killer for
>>> me.
>>
>> SVG and DXF Support. That will likely require a plug in which may be
>> free and may require extra cash. DXF is supported tith Sketchup Pro and
>> the SVG plug in, the one I use, is free. Food for thought. And yes it
>> could be a Sketchup killer but Sketchup is to well suited for woodworking.
>
> Good point. I was thinking about Shaper use. Looking into it some
> more, it would probably be better for a 3D printer than woodworking. I
> have enough to learn without getting into 3D.
>>>
>>> It does have a $50/yr maintenance cost.
>>
>> In that case, maybe not much better than the Pro version of Sketchup.
>> Sketch up requires annual maintenance for updates and quite a bit more
>> but Sketchup Pro updates are not necessary to continue using the program.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward those guys
>>>> with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>
>> Yes! Let us know. While the licensing terms are more reasonable than
>> Sketchup, Sketchup is a load more reasonable than AutoCAD, a program I
>> used for years.
>>
> Isn't AutoCAD 2D only?

AutoCAD is 3D, AutoCAD LT is 2D, I used the LT version and it was/is
expensive, $460 per year.

>
>> If I consider how many years I used Sketchup for free, the new Pro
>> pricing is easier to swallow.
>>
> I find paying for it harder to swallow. ;-)

So did I but it is the best program for, woodworking, that I have ever
used. So not a big deal. And I found that most software is going to
the subscription route. So even if they say you own it, that may be a
limited time. One the pisses me off is Quicken. They say you own and
keep your files on your computer and load the program on your computer.
BUT if you do not continue to subscribe you will not be able to use the
program or look at your files.

>>
>>>
>>> Me too. Thanks for linking it. I'll have to download the trial soon.

On 1/21/2023 10:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:43:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/20/2023 2:34 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:50:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/19/2023 2:08 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:ABydnVjg9upD71T-nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/19/2023 5:26 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward
>>>>>>> those guys with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Puckdropper
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just looking at it, I would rather pay the price of something that I
>>>>>> am proficient with than to have to learn a 7th drawing program. But
>>>>>> at least there is a 30 day trial. I wonder what you don't get with
>>>>>> the $150 version vs the $600~$1400 versions.
>>>>>
>>>>> My little hobby business is 3D printing scale models. That means the
>>>>> more time I spend in Sketchup the longer a new model takes. If a new
>>>>> program can get me to the end faster then I'm all for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trimble got rid of the option to buy Sketchup Pro outright. It's now all
>>>>> rental software.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe. Have you spoken to the sales staff? I talked to them before
>>>> purchasing with the new pricing 2 years ago and they said that the Pro
>>>> version is still the desktop version and iPad version and web or chrome
>>>> version. You do have to upgrade yearly if you want the improvements
>>>> and upgrades but not doing so prevents updates and improvements.
>>>> As explained to me you do not have to resubscribe to continue to use it.
>>>>
>>>> That said I can easily fit $300 per year into my budget. It pays for
>>>> itself many times over with the first job each year.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that is important to me with Sketchup Pro is that I can
>>>> customize the lay out, icons, short cuts, etc. IIRC the web versions
>>>> do not allow that.
>>>
>>> The web version is so slow that it's useless. I tried it and went
>>> back to '17.
>>
>> That is another reason that I don't use the web version. Were you by
>> any chance using the free web version or the paid web version?
>
> Free. Pro is a little rich for me. If I were doing this
> commercially, it would be a slam dunk.

I would suspect the free version may not be given the band width to
really work quickly.
Yes the paid Pro version is pricey but how much do you spend on tools.
;~) LOL.

For the time being I would still use Pro if I was not selling my work.
I'm in the middle of re-doing our kitchen and would not want to be
learning new software.

IIRC you can load a trial version.

>
>>>
>>>> BUT if this other program will write directly to SVG that saves a step.
>>>> And if it draws better that may be better for you. Also, I have drawn
>>>> caster wheels on Sketchp, converted to SVG on Sketchup and Cut those
>>>> casters out of Baltic birch with my Shaper Origin. They were round.
>>>>
>>> I thought SU pro would write SVGs.
>>
>> With the free plugin. When you high lite a surface and right click you
>> select FaceSVG from the pop up window. it copies a black version of
>> the surface to the origin of the drawing. Right clicking the black
>> copy allows you to Write SVG Profile.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:55:29 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/21/2023 10:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:43:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/20/2023 2:34 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:50:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/19/2023 2:08 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>> news:ABydnVjg9upD71T-nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/19/2023 5:26 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>>>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward
>>>>>>>> those guys with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Puckdropper
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just looking at it, I would rather pay the price of something that I
>>>>>>> am proficient with than to have to learn a 7th drawing program. But
>>>>>>> at least there is a 30 day trial. I wonder what you don't get with
>>>>>>> the $150 version vs the $600~$1400 versions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My little hobby business is 3D printing scale models. That means the
>>>>>> more time I spend in Sketchup the longer a new model takes. If a new
>>>>>> program can get me to the end faster then I'm all for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trimble got rid of the option to buy Sketchup Pro outright. It's now all
>>>>>> rental software.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe. Have you spoken to the sales staff? I talked to them before
>>>>> purchasing with the new pricing 2 years ago and they said that the Pro
>>>>> version is still the desktop version and iPad version and web or chrome
>>>>> version. You do have to upgrade yearly if you want the improvements
>>>>> and upgrades but not doing so prevents updates and improvements.
>>>>> As explained to me you do not have to resubscribe to continue to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said I can easily fit $300 per year into my budget. It pays for
>>>>> itself many times over with the first job each year.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that is important to me with Sketchup Pro is that I can
>>>>> customize the lay out, icons, short cuts, etc. IIRC the web versions
>>>>> do not allow that.
>>>>
>>>> The web version is so slow that it's useless. I tried it and went
>>>> back to '17.
>>>
>>> That is another reason that I don't use the web version. Were you by
>>> any chance using the free web version or the paid web version?
>>
>> Free. Pro is a little rich for me. If I were doing this
>> commercially, it would be a slam dunk.
>
>I would suspect the free version may not be given the band width to
>really work quickly.
>Yes the paid Pro version is pricey but how much do you spend on tools.
>;~) LOL.

I don't rent tools. ;-)
>
>For the time being I would still use Pro if I was not selling my work.
>I'm in the middle of re-doing our kitchen and would not want to be
>learning new software.

I probably would if I had a large job like that. The next year?

>IIRC you can load a trial version.
>
For a month. Just enough to get something done then throw it way or
pay. Kinda like a streaming service. Get it for a month free, then
get hooked on a series.

BTW, I did buy/rent Studio for the $100, so there is that. Outside
the large library of shapes and projects, it's pretty cheesy.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:30:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/21/2023 10:49 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:30:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/19/2023 9:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:26:38 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> krw@notreal.com wrote in news:q18hsh5r4lf6b69mn8iqro37h3qrq722e2@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 09:50:39 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm stuck on Sketchup Make 2017 because of poor business decisions.
>>>>>>> Software as a service, renting software, programs running exclusively
>>>>>>> online... It's just not a world I can trust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm the same, though it's getting harder and harder to do. I just
>>>>>> "rented" Shaper Studio. I'm not all that happy about it but it wasn't
>>>>>> all that expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>>
>>>> The price for the personal/workshop version is at the right price
>>>> point. SVG and DXF support makes it a potential SketchUp killer for
>>>> me.
>>>
>>> SVG and DXF Support. That will likely require a plug in which may be
>>> free and may require extra cash. DXF is supported tith Sketchup Pro and
>>> the SVG plug in, the one I use, is free. Food for thought. And yes it
>>> could be a Sketchup killer but Sketchup is to well suited for woodworking.
>>
>> Good point. I was thinking about Shaper use. Looking into it some
>> more, it would probably be better for a 3D printer than woodworking. I
>> have enough to learn without getting into 3D.
>>>>
>>>> It does have a $50/yr maintenance cost.
>>>
>>> In that case, maybe not much better than the Pro version of Sketchup.
>>> Sketch up requires annual maintenance for updates and quite a bit more
>>> but Sketchup Pro updates are not necessary to continue using the program.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward those guys
>>>>> with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>>
>>> Yes! Let us know. While the licensing terms are more reasonable than
>>> Sketchup, Sketchup is a load more reasonable than AutoCAD, a program I
>>> used for years.
>>>
>> Isn't AutoCAD 2D only?
>
>AutoCAD is 3D, AutoCAD LT is 2D, I used the LT version and it was/is
>expensive, $460 per year.
>
>
>
>>
>>> If I consider how many years I used Sketchup for free, the new Pro
>>> pricing is easier to swallow.
>>>
>> I find paying for it harder to swallow. ;-)
>
>So did I but it is the best program for, woodworking, that I have ever
>used. So not a big deal. And I found that most software is going to
>the subscription route. So even if they say you own it, that may be a
>limited time. One the pisses me off is Quicken. They say you own and
>keep your files on your computer and load the program on your computer.
>BUT if you do not continue to subscribe you will not be able to use the
>program or look at your files.

That might as well be ransomware.

On 1/22/2023 3:44 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:30:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2023 10:49 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:30:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/19/2023 9:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:26:38 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> krw@notreal.com wrote in news:q18hsh5r4lf6b69mn8iqro37h3qrq722e2@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 09:50:39 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm stuck on Sketchup Make 2017 because of poor business decisions.
>>>>>>>> Software as a service, renting software, programs running exclusively
>>>>>>>> online... It's just not a world I can trust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm the same, though it's getting harder and harder to do. I just
>>>>>>> "rented" Shaper Studio. I'm not all that happy about it but it wasn't
>>>>>>> all that expensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> The price for the personal/workshop version is at the right price
>>>>> point. SVG and DXF support makes it a potential SketchUp killer for
>>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> SVG and DXF Support. That will likely require a plug in which may be
>>>> free and may require extra cash. DXF is supported tith Sketchup Pro and
>>>> the SVG plug in, the one I use, is free. Food for thought. And yes it
>>>> could be a Sketchup killer but Sketchup is to well suited for woodworking.
>>>
>>> Good point. I was thinking about Shaper use. Looking into it some
>>> more, it would probably be better for a 3D printer than woodworking. I
>>> have enough to learn without getting into 3D.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does have a $50/yr maintenance cost.
>>>>
>>>> In that case, maybe not much better than the Pro version of Sketchup.
>>>> Sketch up requires annual maintenance for updates and quite a bit more
>>>> but Sketchup Pro updates are not necessary to continue using the program.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward those guys
>>>>>> with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>>>
>>>> Yes! Let us know. While the licensing terms are more reasonable than
>>>> Sketchup, Sketchup is a load more reasonable than AutoCAD, a program I
>>>> used for years.
>>>>
>>> Isn't AutoCAD 2D only?
>>
>> AutoCAD is 3D, AutoCAD LT is 2D, I used the LT version and it was/is
>> expensive, $460 per year.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> If I consider how many years I used Sketchup for free, the new Pro
>>>> pricing is easier to swallow.
>>>>
>>> I find paying for it harder to swallow. ;-)
>>
>> So did I but it is the best program for, woodworking, that I have ever
>> used. So not a big deal. And I found that most software is going to
>> the subscription route. So even if they say you own it, that may be a
>> limited time. One the pisses me off is Quicken. They say you own and
>> keep your files on your computer and load the program on your computer.
>> BUT if you do not continue to subscribe you will not be able to use the
>> program or look at your files.
>
> That might as well be ransomware.

Repressively.

Let me warn you with Sketchup though. If you subscribe to pro the file
format changes with each major version change. The current version
can open all previous versions but older versions cannot open newer
versions. I suspect that mopst software is like that.

BUT with the latest version of PRO you can save files in the older
version formats. I suppose this is for sharing files with older versions.

If you think you will not always use Pro or if they pull the Quicken
trick save in the older version format also so that you can open the
newer files in the older versions.

On 1/22/2023 3:42 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:55:29 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2023 10:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:43:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/20/2023 2:34 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:50:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/19/2023 2:08 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:ABydnVjg9upD71T-nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/19/2023 5:26 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the front page, these guys say "Buy it once, own it forever."
>>>>>>>>> https://www.alibre.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I really need to see if it will do what I do, I'd like to reward
>>>>>>>>> those guys with some business for having sane licensing terms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Puckdropper
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just looking at it, I would rather pay the price of something that I
>>>>>>>> am proficient with than to have to learn a 7th drawing program. But
>>>>>>>> at least there is a 30 day trial. I wonder what you don't get with
>>>>>>>> the $150 version vs the $600~$1400 versions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My little hobby business is 3D printing scale models. That means the
>>>>>>> more time I spend in Sketchup the longer a new model takes. If a new
>>>>>>> program can get me to the end faster then I'm all for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trimble got rid of the option to buy Sketchup Pro outright. It's now all
>>>>>>> rental software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. Have you spoken to the sales staff? I talked to them before
>>>>>> purchasing with the new pricing 2 years ago and they said that the Pro
>>>>>> version is still the desktop version and iPad version and web or chrome
>>>>>> version. You do have to upgrade yearly if you want the improvements
>>>>>> and upgrades but not doing so prevents updates and improvements.
>>>>>> As explained to me you do not have to resubscribe to continue to use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said I can easily fit $300 per year into my budget. It pays for
>>>>>> itself many times over with the first job each year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing that is important to me with Sketchup Pro is that I can
>>>>>> customize the lay out, icons, short cuts, etc. IIRC the web versions
>>>>>> do not allow that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The web version is so slow that it's useless. I tried it and went
>>>>> back to '17.
>>>>
>>>> That is another reason that I don't use the web version. Were you by
>>>> any chance using the free web version or the paid web version?
>>>
>>> Free. Pro is a little rich for me. If I were doing this
>>> commercially, it would be a slam dunk.
>>
>> I would suspect the free version may not be given the band width to
>> really work quickly.
>> Yes the paid Pro version is pricey but how much do you spend on tools.
>> ;~) LOL.
>
> I don't rent tools. ;-)

Yeah but if you did you would have more room. LOL. You rent most
every thing else, food, drinks, electricity, gas, you know. ;~)

>>
>> For the time being I would still use Pro if I was not selling my work.
>> I'm in the middle of re-doing our kitchen and would not want to be
>> learning new software.
>
> I probably would if I had a large job like that. The next year?

Then maybe I would not renew the subscription and keep using the same
version. Right now you do not have to renew the subscription to
continue using the latest version that you paid for, as explained to me
2 years ago. BUT if you decide to up grade later you pay for the years
you did not.

>
>> IIRC you can load a trial version.
>>
> For a month. Just enough to get something done then throw it way or
> pay. Kinda like a streaming service. Get it for a month free, then
> get hooked on a series.

Yeah! Soooo with a Roku streaming device you typically get free trials
to subscriptions.... We have purchased 3~4 new Roku devices and get
that feature every time with each... Sometimes the low end Roku device
is less expensive. ;~)

>
> BTW, I did buy/rent Studio for the $100, so there is that. Outside
> the large library of shapes and projects, it's pretty cheesy.

Yes pricey but works well and seamlessly with the Origin. I watched a
video about Studio and they are apparently improving/evolving the
program like they are doing with the Origin. I do like being able to
preprogram the cuts and depths. Check that out, its the latest Shaper
Sessions video covering Studio, came out last Thursday, available on
YouTube.

And sooner than later I'll be upgrading an Origin plug-in for the
automatic depth change to take advantage of not having to stop and
manually change the depth of cut. That is a one time purchase and
price too. $200. There are a few Shaper Sessons covering that new
feature too.