Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.

Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C

But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.

OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.

On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
>
> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
>
> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>
> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.

If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
modify/cut/overbore anything.

Double check that part here:
https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/

I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
series. Images on that page are very clear.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:26:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does.

You posted that at 12:25PM PST. I'm writing this at 12:58PM PST. eBay
is alive and well here. The eBay status page shows everyting is
normal:
<https://www.ebay.com/sts>
Same with DownDetector:
<https://downdetector.com/status/ebay/>
I suggest you fix your computah or internet service provider (it still
seems to be Google Groups). If desperate, try scanning for malware,
flushing your browser cache, or try a different browser. If
everything fails, maybe reboot your computer.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:26:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
>
>Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=nonononononononononononononononononnononononononoonononono

The actual URL is <https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756>.
All the rest is tracking. Best not to post tracking info on
Usenet. Some contain passwords or other personal info.
Appears the seller is from Lithuania.
Ebay translates the page to Portuguese for me. Badly
translated.
[]'s
>
>But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>
>OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> >
> > Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
> >
> > But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> >
> > OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>
> Double check that part here:
> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>
> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
> series. Images on that page are very clear.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.

I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.

funkma...@hotmail.com <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51/PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere
>>> close to fitting.
>>>
>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one
>>> that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and
>>> it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify
>>> one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this
>>> out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta
HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
>>>
>>>
>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of
>>> the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter
>>> drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>>>
>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from
>>> the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time.
>>> But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to
>>> break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you
>>> cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the
>>> system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the
>>> following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know
>>> how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>>
>> Double check that part here:
>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>>
>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only
> time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on
> my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have
> customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?),
> instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them
> asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for
> the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded
> with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
>
> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got
> something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw
> holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately
> with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it
> looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up
> the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to
> the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the
> metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
>

I managed to snap one on my gravel bike during the pandemic and the supply
chain problems, ended up having to order it from some shop in American paid
more in postage than for the part!

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 12:45:51 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> >
> > Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
> >
> > But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> >
> > OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>
> Double check that part here:
> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>
> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
> series. Images on that page are very clear.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That would be very nice but there are two problems:

1. The bike is a 2000 Allez Elite which was only built for one year as far as I can tell and
2. The hanger is unique to that year and
3. It turns out that since the screw come in from the wheel side, one of the mounting screws appears to be fine while the other has had a countersink in it with a screw that was inserted from the outside. I cannot think of why this would be since there is no way it could contact the hanger if you use the proper one.

There appears to be room to open it up one size larger though since it attaches from the inside, I can put the correct size screw in but it will only be half engaged. Since it is coming from the inside it probably doesn't make any difference since the hanger is held in place by the wheel.

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 2:29:52 PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:26:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> >
> >Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> >
> >https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=nonononononononononononononononononnononononononoonononono
>
> The actual URL is <https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756>.
> All the rest is tracking. Best not to post tracking info on
> Usenet. Some contain passwords or other personal info.
> Appears the seller is from Lithuania.
> Ebay translates the page to Portuguese for me. Badly
> translated.
> []'s
> >
> >But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> >
> >OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> --
> Don't be evil - Google 2004
> We have a new policy - Google 2012
> Google Fuchsia - 2021
Thanks for that information. I am not sure that it contains anything like passwords but if I can reference a part purely by one line that is what I need.

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail..com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> > >
> > > Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> > >
> > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
> > >
> > > But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> > >
> > > OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> > If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
> > the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
> > modify/cut/overbore anything.
> >
> > Double check that part here:
> > https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
> >
> > I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
> > series. Images on that page are very clear.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
>
> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.

There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.

On 2/18/2024 9:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
>>>>
>>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
>>>>
>>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>>>>
>>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
>>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
>>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
>>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>>>
>>> Double check that part here:
>>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>>>
>>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
>>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
>>
>> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
>
> There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.

There were a hundred twenty-some years ago when I wrote my
first rant on the subject:

"We often note that many components and frames change every
year for no good reason. Certainly the marketing department
loves change because they can tout this year's product as
being far superior to the useless crap they sold us a few
months ago. Designers have a vested interest in redesigning
everything all the time, else there would be less work for
designers. We poor hapless cyclists must swim on a sea of
planned obsolescence such that our year-old components are
abandoned by the vendor as "not worth fixing" and service
parts are more difficult to secure every year. Nothing
exhibits this so much as frame ends. Most of the aluminum
and carbon bicycles sold in America are not made by the
vendor whose name is on the frame. It is often quite
difficult to even determine who made the piece at all!
Famous brands such as Schwinn have had several owners in the
last few years and have sold frames made by a dozen or more
framebuilders in almost as many countries. A simple and
common repair, replacing a frame end, involves a scavenger
hunt for the right part and that search gets more difficult
every year. There is no earthly reason for so many frame
ends. The entire industry could easily build around two
designs instead of the nearly one hundred currently on the
road. Moreover, these ends are so small, so complex in shape
and so arranged as to make interchageabllity nearly
impossible. The cost to the manufacturer would be no
different with a standardized end system. The cost to the
rider now is horrendous, not so much in money as in
aggravation. The present situation is unacceptably chaotic
and a disservice to the cyclist- who has no idea about this
when he buys a bike and can be left with an irreparable
frame after a minor crash.
There. I've said it."

http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html

Currently there are something around 800 tab designs which
do not fit each other.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 9:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
> >>>>
> >>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> >>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
> >>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
> >>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
> >>>
> >>> Double check that part here:
> >>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
> >>>
> >>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
> >>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
> >>> --
> >>> Andrew Muzi
> >>> a...@yellowjersey.org
> >>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
> >>
> >> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
> >
> > There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.
> There were a hundred twenty-some years ago when I wrote my
> first rant on the subject:
>
>
> "We often note that many components and frames change every
> year for no good reason. Certainly the marketing department
> loves change because they can tout this year's product as
> being far superior to the useless crap they sold us a few
> months ago. Designers have a vested interest in redesigning
> everything all the time, else there would be less work for
> designers. We poor hapless cyclists must swim on a sea of
> planned obsolescence such that our year-old components are
> abandoned by the vendor as "not worth fixing" and service
> parts are more difficult to secure every year. Nothing
> exhibits this so much as frame ends. Most of the aluminum
> and carbon bicycles sold in America are not made by the
> vendor whose name is on the frame. It is often quite
> difficult to even determine who made the piece at all!
> Famous brands such as Schwinn have had several owners in the
> last few years and have sold frames made by a dozen or more
> framebuilders in almost as many countries. A simple and
> common repair, replacing a frame end, involves a scavenger
> hunt for the right part and that search gets more difficult
> every year. There is no earthly reason for so many frame
> ends. The entire industry could easily build around two
> designs instead of the nearly one hundred currently on the
> road. Moreover, these ends are so small, so complex in shape
> and so arranged as to make interchageabllity nearly
> impossible. The cost to the manufacturer would be no
> different with a standardized end system. The cost to the
> rider now is horrendous, not so much in money as in
> aggravation. The present situation is unacceptably chaotic
> and a disservice to the cyclist- who has no idea about this
> when he buys a bike and can be left with an irreparable
> frame after a minor crash.
> There. I've said it."
>
>
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html
>
>
> Currently there are something around 800 tab designs which
> do not fit each other.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.

Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.

On 2/18/2024 1:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 9:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
>>>>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
>>>>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
>>>>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Double check that part here:
>>>>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>>>>>
>>>>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
>>>>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
>>>>
>>>> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
>>>
>>> There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.
>> There were a hundred twenty-some years ago when I wrote my
>> first rant on the subject:
>>
>>
>> "We often note that many components and frames change every
>> year for no good reason. Certainly the marketing department
>> loves change because they can tout this year's product as
>> being far superior to the useless crap they sold us a few
>> months ago. Designers have a vested interest in redesigning
>> everything all the time, else there would be less work for
>> designers. We poor hapless cyclists must swim on a sea of
>> planned obsolescence such that our year-old components are
>> abandoned by the vendor as "not worth fixing" and service
>> parts are more difficult to secure every year. Nothing
>> exhibits this so much as frame ends. Most of the aluminum
>> and carbon bicycles sold in America are not made by the
>> vendor whose name is on the frame. It is often quite
>> difficult to even determine who made the piece at all!
>> Famous brands such as Schwinn have had several owners in the
>> last few years and have sold frames made by a dozen or more
>> framebuilders in almost as many countries. A simple and
>> common repair, replacing a frame end, involves a scavenger
>> hunt for the right part and that search gets more difficult
>> every year. There is no earthly reason for so many frame
>> ends. The entire industry could easily build around two
>> designs instead of the nearly one hundred currently on the
>> road. Moreover, these ends are so small, so complex in shape
>> and so arranged as to make interchageabllity nearly
>> impossible. The cost to the manufacturer would be no
>> different with a standardized end system. The cost to the
>> rider now is horrendous, not so much in money as in
>> aggravation. The present situation is unacceptably chaotic
>> and a disservice to the cyclist- who has no idea about this
>> when he buys a bike and can be left with an irreparable
>> frame after a minor crash.
>> There. I've said it."
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html
>>
>>
>> Currently there are something around 800 tab designs which
>> do not fit each other.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>
> Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.

While I understand your point (and very much agree) about
too many gear tab formats, the actual rear changer top pivot
position ends up within in a small finite area:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/sisendb.jpg

The actual world standard is Japanese and 30 years old.

By the way it's not only the many and variant chinese ends.
USA, British, Euro and Japanese frame designers are no
better in that regard. Hang the chinese for their own sins,
but they aren't better or worse than anyone else in this one.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 11:46:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 1:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/18/2024 9:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584..m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time.. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
> >>>>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
> >>>>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
> >>>>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Double check that part here:
> >>>>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
> >>>>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
> >>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
> >>>>
> >>>> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
> >>>
> >>> There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.
> >> There were a hundred twenty-some years ago when I wrote my
> >> first rant on the subject:
> >>
> >>
> >> "We often note that many components and frames change every
> >> year for no good reason. Certainly the marketing department
> >> loves change because they can tout this year's product as
> >> being far superior to the useless crap they sold us a few
> >> months ago. Designers have a vested interest in redesigning
> >> everything all the time, else there would be less work for
> >> designers. We poor hapless cyclists must swim on a sea of
> >> planned obsolescence such that our year-old components are
> >> abandoned by the vendor as "not worth fixing" and service
> >> parts are more difficult to secure every year. Nothing
> >> exhibits this so much as frame ends. Most of the aluminum
> >> and carbon bicycles sold in America are not made by the
> >> vendor whose name is on the frame. It is often quite
> >> difficult to even determine who made the piece at all!
> >> Famous brands such as Schwinn have had several owners in the
> >> last few years and have sold frames made by a dozen or more
> >> framebuilders in almost as many countries. A simple and
> >> common repair, replacing a frame end, involves a scavenger
> >> hunt for the right part and that search gets more difficult
> >> every year. There is no earthly reason for so many frame
> >> ends. The entire industry could easily build around two
> >> designs instead of the nearly one hundred currently on the
> >> road. Moreover, these ends are so small, so complex in shape
> >> and so arranged as to make interchageabllity nearly
> >> impossible. The cost to the manufacturer would be no
> >> different with a standardized end system. The cost to the
> >> rider now is horrendous, not so much in money as in
> >> aggravation. The present situation is unacceptably chaotic
> >> and a disservice to the cyclist- who has no idea about this
> >> when he buys a bike and can be left with an irreparable
> >> frame after a minor crash.
> >> There. I've said it."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Currently there are something around 800 tab designs which
> >> do not fit each other.
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> a...@yellowjersey.org
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
> >
> > Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
> While I understand your point (and very much agree) about
> too many gear tab formats, the actual rear changer top pivot
> position ends up within in a small finite area:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/sisendb.jpg
>
> The actual world standard is Japanese and 30 years old.
>
> By the way it's not only the many and variant chinese ends.
> USA, British, Euro and Japanese frame designers are no
> better in that regard. Hang the chinese for their own sins,
> but they aren't better or worse than anyone else in this one.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Well until aluminum and carbon fiber bikes came along with the weaker hanger material, we could always straighten the hangers when bent. I REALLY liked it when the drop outs changed from horizontal to vertical.

On 2/18/2024 1:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 11:46:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 1:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/18/2024 9:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:26:35 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 3:45:51 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/17/2024 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well the new rear derailleur hanger came in and it doesn't get anywhere close to fitting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does. There is only one single bolt hole to hold on the hanger and it has been twisted and stripped so it might be necessary to modify one. The bike otherwise is more or less finished so I will work this out. The hanger that appears like it would work, has two parallel holes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/185276450756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221025152926%26meid%3Da8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%26pid%3D101584%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D315050686891%26itm%3D185276450756%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2508447%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V3WithPbooster&_trksid=p2508447.c101584.m2061&itmprp=cksum%3A185276450756a8f0f8bb307d441a8129bebc188a297f%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABAMJjzlVS3JHbM8WubKstsfVchD1yoNGMrQatJAQEnE8HZLdGIlbKcg8QAG%252FoH5e7lgwo%252BgzNL8XJR6grRRJ4CrnawdjaW%252FNk%252BEsG1tQQG0Z%252FfyOvPE0Mns9SwbAJ%252BBfUi1xpTPxivhbo27pyDzmiu%252F32SrovVajAo1AFJc0r0g9CKvDnaPI6KKjYtme7CnAF46iaAVmQJGNzli6HpvOu0jsEXbJ7cwQHYAMiReloO1mGXz6EyvcbOG8XwJX9Yk%252Fb0hY8E3ZCFi8soy8nUfXaCp6tYjdNaBEVk785oVmGpqgAF5GKAdXTNQJBYEWI4OQjDX6M8wlwhVv3PIrS%252FwPyKZE%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2508447&itmmeta=01HPW5CQKJ61EJ59ZB54XDM43C
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But while there appears to be a place for the front hole on the back of the dropout it was never drilled. And the back hole has a counter drilling so that the room for threads in the back hole are reduced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, I found a picture of a like Allez and the fixture is inserted from the back side. That means that I ordered the correct fitting this time. But I will drill the fitting for larger bolts. Apparently it is easy to break them off Because it actually fits INSIDE of the dropout, you cannot see anything once it has been broken off and they changed the system over to the hanger being entirely on the outside for the following models, ALL of the Specialized. In any case, now that I know how it is supposed to work it will be easy to replace and repair.
>>>>>>> If you have the correct part, it would behoove you to use
>>>>>>> the supplied hardware (oil bolt threads) and not to
>>>>>>> modify/cut/overbore anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Double check that part here:
>>>>>>> https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/633305/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I count twenty different frames in the Specialized Allez
>>>>>>> series. Images on that page are very clear.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>> I've used DerailleurHanger.com many times with great success. The only time a challenge was presented was when I needed to replace the hanger on my CX bike, made by Fort (from the Czech Republic). They don't have customer service page, at least at that time (5 years or so ago?), instead directing enquiries to their US distributor. I emailed them asking about a replacement hanger, got one response back asking me for the frame model (which I had included in the original email). I responded with the information, and never heard back despite repeated requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I gave up on that and searched through derailleurhanger.com until I got something that was a reasonably close match. Once received, the screw holes matched but the mating pattern was quite a bit off, fortunately with more material on the hanger. From my vernier caliper measurements it looked like removing some of the material from the hanger would set up the hanger close enough that the derailleur could be set up. Dremel to the rescue! Using a router-type of a carving bit, I trimmed away the metal until the piece fit. Success! It's been that way ever since.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are about one hundred commonly stock hangers. It would be nice if manufacturers used one of those rather than inventing new ones.
>>>> There were a hundred twenty-some years ago when I wrote my
>>>> first rant on the subject:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "We often note that many components and frames change every
>>>> year for no good reason. Certainly the marketing department
>>>> loves change because they can tout this year's product as
>>>> being far superior to the useless crap they sold us a few
>>>> months ago. Designers have a vested interest in redesigning
>>>> everything all the time, else there would be less work for
>>>> designers. We poor hapless cyclists must swim on a sea of
>>>> planned obsolescence such that our year-old components are
>>>> abandoned by the vendor as "not worth fixing" and service
>>>> parts are more difficult to secure every year. Nothing
>>>> exhibits this so much as frame ends. Most of the aluminum
>>>> and carbon bicycles sold in America are not made by the
>>>> vendor whose name is on the frame. It is often quite
>>>> difficult to even determine who made the piece at all!
>>>> Famous brands such as Schwinn have had several owners in the
>>>> last few years and have sold frames made by a dozen or more
>>>> framebuilders in almost as many countries. A simple and
>>>> common repair, replacing a frame end, involves a scavenger
>>>> hunt for the right part and that search gets more difficult
>>>> every year. There is no earthly reason for so many frame
>>>> ends. The entire industry could easily build around two
>>>> designs instead of the nearly one hundred currently on the
>>>> road. Moreover, these ends are so small, so complex in shape
>>>> and so arranged as to make interchageabllity nearly
>>>> impossible. The cost to the manufacturer would be no
>>>> different with a standardized end system. The cost to the
>>>> rider now is horrendous, not so much in money as in
>>>> aggravation. The present situation is unacceptably chaotic
>>>> and a disservice to the cyclist- who has no idea about this
>>>> when he buys a bike and can be left with an irreparable
>>>> frame after a minor crash.
>>>> There. I've said it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Currently there are something around 800 tab designs which
>>>> do not fit each other.
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>
>>> What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>>>
>>> Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
>> While I understand your point (and very much agree) about
>> too many gear tab formats, the actual rear changer top pivot
>> position ends up within in a small finite area:
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/sisendb.jpg
>>
>> The actual world standard is Japanese and 30 years old.
>>
>> By the way it's not only the many and variant chinese ends.
>> USA, British, Euro and Japanese frame designers are no
>> better in that regard. Hang the chinese for their own sins,
>> but they aren't better or worse than anyone else in this one.

> Well until aluminum and carbon fiber bikes came along with the weaker hanger material, we could always straighten the hangers when bent. I REALLY liked it when the drop outs changed from horizontal to vertical.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:28:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>
>Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.

You could buy or make a Universal Derailleur Hanger:
<https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh>
<https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com>
<https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ac-drhg-mtb-a1>
About $16/ea. However, I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your
Specialized Allez.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in most cases.  Or
> damaged threads get filled and re threaded. Where severely damaged, they
> get replaced:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
>
> Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is an utterly
> different process, in most cases prohibitively complex or expensive.
> Therefore, the modern removable "breakaway" gear tab.

I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame, shown in the
photo.

If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no separate
hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps using wet rags or
something to keep surrounding metal cool?

(My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
problems for many years now.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2024 7:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in most
>> cases.  Or damaged threads get filled and re threaded.
>> Where severely damaged, they get replaced:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
>>
>> Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is an
>> utterly different process, in most cases prohibitively
>> complex or expensive. Therefore, the modern removable
>> "breakaway" gear tab.
>
> I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame,
> shown in the photo.
>
> If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no
> separate hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps
> using wet rags or something to keep surrounding metal cool?
>
> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees
> in her integral hanger. I straightened it using an
> adjustable wrench. No problems for many years now.)
>
>

We don't, but hey, rent a TIG and give it a go.

Issues include matching alloy content, temper/hardening
changes and heat expansion of a closed figure.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat Feb 17 13:11:11 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:26:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does.
>
> You posted that at 12:25PM PST. I'm writing this at 12:58PM PST. eBay
> is alive and well here. The eBay status page shows everyting is
> normal:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sts>
> Same with DownDetector:
> <https://downdetector.com/status/ebay/>
> I suggest you fix your computah or internet service provider (it still
> seems to be Google Groups). If desperate, try scanning for malware,
> flushing your browser cache, or try a different browser. If
> everything fails, maybe reboot your computer.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Still the expert on everything aren't you Liebermann? And yet none of your references ever work.

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 1:25:55 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:28:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth.. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
> >
> >Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
> You could buy or make a Universal Derailleur Hanger:
> <https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh>
> <https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com>
> <https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ac-drhg-mtb-a1>
> About $16/ea. However, I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your
> Specialized Allez.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Why do you insist in making yourself look stupid? That "universal hanger" is for 12 mm through axles, not drop outs. IF they "made one for a Specialized it wouldn't be universal now would it. People who ride bicycles know these things.

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:28:35 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in most cases. Or
> > damaged threads get filled and re threaded. Where severely damaged, they
> > get replaced:
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
> >
> > Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is an utterly
> > different process, in most cases prohibitively complex or expensive.
> > Therefore, the modern removable "breakaway" gear tab.
> I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame, shown in the
> photo.
>
> If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no separate
> hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps using wet rags or
> something to keep surrounding metal cool?
>
> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
> problems for many years now.)
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, straightening a bent aluminum hanger can cause many problems unless you're careful enough to hit the correct placement spot on.

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 6:24:46 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 7:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in most
> >> cases. Or damaged threads get filled and re threaded.
> >> Where severely damaged, they get replaced:
> >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
> >>
> >> Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is an
> >> utterly different process, in most cases prohibitively
> >> complex or expensive. Therefore, the modern removable
> >> "breakaway" gear tab.
> >
> > I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame,
> > shown in the photo.
> >
> > If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no
> > separate hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps
> > using wet rags or something to keep surrounding metal cool?
> >
> > (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees
> > in her integral hanger. I straightened it using an
> > adjustable wrench. No problems for many years now.)
> >
> >
> We don't, but hey, rent a TIG and give it a go.
>
> Issues include matching alloy content, temper/hardening
> changes and heat expansion of a closed figure.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Frank is a mechanical engineer and doesn't really understand working in the real world. TIG welding has so many problems that he simply doesn't understand what he thinks is simply sticking two things together with heat. Common enough among engineers I guess. I was lucky enough to work my way up from being a mechanic on a used car lot to washing dishes in a restaurant and so forth. I always had respect for the amount of knowledge it took to even properly wash dishes.

On 2/19/2024 11:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
>> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
>> problems for many years now.)
>
> Frank, straightening a bent aluminum hanger can cause many problems unless you're careful enough to hit the correct placement spot on.

Thank you! I noticed the bend and straightened it in 2003, not long
after returning home from our long tour. I suspect it happened during
Amtrak shipping. It's been fine since then.

But based on your sage advice, I'll continue checking carefully for
problems.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2024 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 7:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in most cases.  Or
>>> damaged threads get filled and re threaded. Where severely damaged,
>>> they get replaced:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
>>>
>>> Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is an utterly
>>> different process, in most cases prohibitively complex or expensive.
>>> Therefore, the modern removable "breakaway" gear tab.
>>
>> I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame, shown in
>> the photo.
>>
>> If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no separate
>> hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps using wet rags or
>> something to keep surrounding metal cool?
>>
>> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
>> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
>> problems for many years now.)
>>
>>
>
> We don't, but hey, rent a TIG and give it a go.
>
> Issues include matching alloy content, temper/hardening changes and heat
> expansion of a closed figure.

I understand those issues. I wondered if with enough cooling it would be
possible to keep the heat local to the weld itself.

Out of curiosity, how would you repair such an integral derailleur
hanger? The entire dropout + hanger is flat aluminum plate, about 5/16"
inch or 8mm thick.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/19/2024 12:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 7:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On a steel frame, bashed gear tabs get re aligned in
>>>> most cases.  Or damaged threads get filled and re
>>>> threaded. Where severely damaged, they get replaced:
>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/doreen1.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Repair or replacement on an aluminum or carbon frame is
>>>> an utterly different process, in most cases
>>>> prohibitively complex or expensive. Therefore, the
>>>> modern removable "breakaway" gear tab.
>>>
>>> I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's
>>> frame, shown in the photo.
>>>
>>> If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with
>>> no separate hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement,
>>> perhaps using wet rags or something to keep surrounding
>>> metal cool?
>>>
>>> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few
>>> degrees in her integral hanger. I straightened it using
>>> an adjustable wrench. No problems for many years now.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> We don't, but hey, rent a TIG and give it a go.
>>
>> Issues include matching alloy content, temper/hardening
>> changes and heat expansion of a closed figure.
>
> I understand those issues. I wondered if with enough cooling
> it would be possible to keep the heat local to the weld itself.
>
> Out of curiosity, how would you repair such an integral
> derailleur hanger? The entire dropout + hanger is flat
> aluminum plate, about 5/16" inch or 8mm thick.
>

Since the damage was not severe and since you bent it back
straight enough to shift, I'd call a victory and stop.
Cannondale ends are more massive than most and if you had
seen a crack you would have mentioned it.

For severe damage to non-removable aluminum ends, the stump
can sometimes (not always) be cut to accept a modern bolt-in
gear tab:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
http://www.yellowjersey.org/rbe.html

First link also shows some really lousy aluminum welds (not
our work) at the bottom of the page

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:56:52 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Sat Feb 17 13:11:11 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:26:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Presently Ebay is down so I can't page through the hangers to find one that does.
>>
>> You posted that at 12:25PM PST. I'm writing this at 12:58PM PST. eBay
>> is alive and well here. The eBay status page shows everyting is
>> normal:
>> <https://www.ebay.com/sts>
>> Same with DownDetector:
>> <https://downdetector.com/status/ebay/>
>> I suggest you fix your computah or internet service provider (it still
>> seems to be Google Groups). If desperate, try scanning for malware,
>> flushing your browser cache, or try a different browser. If
>> everything fails, maybe reboot your computer.

>Still the expert on everything aren't you Liebermann?

Only some things, but not everything.

>And yet none of your references ever work.

Since you didn't thank me for the helpful advice, I'll assume that the
above two links are included in "none of your references" and continue
to not work. For a nominal charge, I'll gladly provide you with some
additional diagnostic procedures and possibly a typing lesson, so that
they will work for you. However, I'll need some additional
information. What appeared on your screen when you clicked on the
above links?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558