On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:47:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 1:25:55?PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:28:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>> >
>> >Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
>> You could buy or make a Universal Derailleur Hanger:
>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh>
>> <https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com>
>> <https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ac-drhg-mtb-a1>
>> About $16/ea. However, I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your
>> Specialized Allez.

>Why do you insist in making yourself look stupid? That "universal hanger" is for 12 mm through axles, not drop outs. IF they "made one for a Specialized it wouldn't be universal now would it. People who ride bicycles know these things.

I did mention:
"...I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your Specialized Allez."
My apologies. I'm not familiar with the Specialized Allez and assumed
that "universal derailleur hanger" included all variations and
mutations of hanger.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 10:34:25 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 11:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
> >> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
> >> problems for many years now.)
> >
> > Frank, straightening a bent aluminum hanger can cause many problems unless you're careful enough to hit the correct placement spot on.
> Thank you! I noticed the bend and straightened it in 2003, not long
> after returning home from our long tour. I suspect it happened during
> Amtrak shipping. It's been fine since then.
>
> But based on your sage advice, I'll continue checking carefully for
> problems.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Since you're talking about 2003 I assume you got it right the first time. But shifting incorrectly across the cassette or freewheel is a sign.

On 2/19/2024 11:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:47:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 1:25:55?PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:28:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>>>>
>>>> Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
>>> You could buy or make a Universal Derailleur Hanger:
>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh>
>>> <https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com>
>>> <https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ac-drhg-mtb-a1>
>>> About $16/ea. However, I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your
>>> Specialized Allez.
>
>> Why do you insist in making yourself look stupid? That "universal hanger" is for 12 mm through axles, not drop outs. IF they "made one for a Specialized it wouldn't be universal now would it. People who ride bicycles know these things.
>
> I did mention:
> "...I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your Specialized Allez."
> My apologies. I'm not familiar with the Specialized Allez and assumed
> that "universal derailleur hanger" included all variations and
> mutations of hanger.

https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/allez2003-18/

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:46:25 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 2/19/2024 11:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:47:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 1:25:55?PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:28:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What I cannot understand is why they change something of so little worth. Derailleur hangers do NOTHING but hold the rear derailleur. They ALL hold the hanger in nearly the same positions. The one I have turns out to be the most preposterous of all of them, with a narrowing of the dropouts so that it means that the drop out itself is made improperly. This damn thing was only made for ONE year! Though the Chinese must have stepped in after that and most of the remaining hangers either fit standard drop-outs or the latest disc through axles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Things are getting pretty bad when real standards are being imposed by the Chinese instead of the Americans.
>>>> You could buy or make a Universal Derailleur Hanger:
>>>> <https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh>
>>>> <https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com>
>>>> <https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ac-drhg-mtb-a1>
>>>> About $16/ea. However, I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your
>>>> Specialized Allez.
>>
>>> Why do you insist in making yourself look stupid? That "universal hanger" is for 12 mm through axles, not drop outs. IF they "made one for a Specialized it wouldn't be universal now would it. People who ride bicycles know these things.
>>
>> I did mention:
>> "...I'm not certain if SRAM makes one for your Specialized Allez."
>> My apologies. I'm not familiar with the Specialized Allez and assumed
>> that "universal derailleur hanger" included all variations and
>> mutations of hanger.

>https://derailleurhanger.com/manufacturer/specialized/allez2003-18/

On behalf of Tom, thank you for the link.

Specialized Part #9893-4291 also known as Specialized Dropout-11.
If that's the correct part number for the hanger, Tom should have
little difficulty ordering the wrong part.

Looks like he might also want to order an M8 nut and bolt set:
<https://wheelsmfg.com/chainring-bolt-short.html>

Tom should mill his own from scratch:
<https://grabcad.com/library/tag/dropout>
This one looks like a mirror image of Tom's:
<https://grabcad.com/library/specialized-demo-dropout-1>
Try the 3d viewer.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2/19/2024 1:54 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 12:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 7:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I assume you brazed on the replacement for Doreen's frame, shown in
>>>> the photo.
>>>>
>>>> If something similar happened with an aluminum frame with no
>>>> separate hanger, could you TIG weld a replacement, perhaps using wet
>>>> rags or something to keep surrounding metal cool?
>>>>
>>>> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
>>>> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
>>>> problems for many years now.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We don't, but hey, rent a TIG and give it a go.
>>>
>>> Issues include matching alloy content, temper/hardening changes and
>>> heat expansion of a closed figure.
>>
>> I understand those issues. I wondered if with enough cooling it would
>> be possible to keep the heat local to the weld itself.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, how would you repair such an integral derailleur
>> hanger? The entire dropout + hanger is flat aluminum plate, about
>> 5/16" inch or 8mm thick.
>>
>
> Since the damage was not severe and since you bent it back straight
> enough to shift, I'd call a victory and stop. Cannondale ends are more
> massive than most and if you had seen a crack you would have mentioned it.

You're right on those issues. I straightened it, called victory and
stopped. It's been fine for 20 years. And there was no crack. That frame
was recently powder coated, and stripped clean before that operation. No
visible crack.

> For severe damage to non-removable aluminum ends, the stump can
> sometimes (not always) be cut to accept a modern bolt-in gear tab:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/rbe.html
>
> First link also shows some really lousy aluminum welds (not our work) at
> the bottom of the page

Our Cannondale touring bikes came with paint matched aluminum racks for
front and rear panniers. When we arrived home after that trip, the other
damage (again, doubtlessly from shipping) was a cracked rack. One of the
students in one of my classes offered to TIG weld it, using the school's
equipment. I let him do that, and it looked OK.

But that rack didn't get used. For all the bike tours we've done since,
when my wife rode that bike, it carried no load. I carried her stuff for
her. Still, I think the rack would work fine. I doubt it's heavily
stressed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/19/2024 6:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <https://grabcad.com/library/tag/dropout>
> This one looks like a mirror image of Tom's:
> <https://grabcad.com/library/specialized-demo-dropout-1>
> Try the 3d viewer.

Someday those things will be available as files for 3D printing. Yes, in
metal.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/19/2024 2:52 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 10:34:25 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/19/2024 11:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>>> (My wife's Cannondale once had a bend of just a few degrees in her
>>>> integral hanger. I straightened it using an adjustable wrench. No
>>>> problems for many years now.)
>>>
>>> Frank, straightening a bent aluminum hanger can cause many problems unless you're careful enough to hit the correct placement spot on.
>> Thank you! I noticed the bend and straightened it in 2003, not long
>> after returning home from our long tour. I suspect it happened during
>> Amtrak shipping. It's been fine since then.
>>
>> But based on your sage advice, I'll continue checking carefully for
>> problems.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Since you're talking about 2003 I assume you got it right the first time. But shifting incorrectly across the cassette or freewheel is a sign.

I'll bet you weren't aware that shifting problems could be a sign that
the derailleur hanger was misaligned, eh frank?

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 6:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> <https://grabcad.com/library/tag/dropout>
>> This one looks like a mirror image of Tom's:
>> <https://grabcad.com/library/specialized-demo-dropout-1>
>> Try the 3d viewer.
>
> Someday those things will be available as files for 3D printing. Yes, in
> metal.
>

Indeed though I’ve bent or broken over number of decades 1 hanger so while
the multiple different versions for each bike etc are tedious it’s not
really on my this is annoying list.

Stuff like integrated handlebars which make fitting lights/GPS units etc
difficult and have to have own bespoke mounts, I’m not that fussed about
internal cables but I do run lights and a GPS etc.

Ie I’m unconvinced that the aero gains by fully integrating cables and one
piece stem/bar is worth the use ability loss at least for non pro racers,
who yes will go for every gain hence the TDF average speeds steady gains
over the years.

Hence the pro fairly huge chain rings over the years compared to consumers
who have had more sensible gearing or least for there uses!

Roger Merriman