On 2/18/2024 11:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 7:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
>>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
>>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
>>> Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
>>
>> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants
>> open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal
>> immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a
>> running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
>
> uh, you conflated actual policy positions with pure idiotic fantasy there.

But the idiotic fantasies got tons of publicity and doubtlessly
generated millions of votes for Trump. It also generated an armed
assault on a pizza parlor.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-edgar-maddison-welch-sentenced-four-years-prison-n775621

It might be helpful if those on the right who were more logical would
call out such nonsense. Please don't pretend it has no consequences.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2024 12:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 5:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since cycle infrastructure tends to be urban roads so do tend to get
>>> regular cleaning both the road way and pavement, and if not? Why not?
>>
>> Roads in our area seem to get swept twice per year. That's enough for
>> motor vehicle passage, since car tires are not harmed by (say) 1/4" bits
>> of broken glass. It's not enough for bike facilities.
>>
> If true that’s quite significantly less than london or even surrounding
> areas sweep/litter pick etc which is at least monthly.
>...
>
> Even Tom’s hell hole gets regularly street cleaning would seem!

I don't know about the street sweeping schedule where Tom lives.
Actually, it would be interesting to hear from several people in
different areas. Ours happens mid- to late spring, apparently to get the
gravel off the road. (A couple years ago my wife had a low speed fall on
an early spring city ride. From a stop sign, she started into a right
turn but slipped out on a small pile of gravel.)

> ... this seems to be a Youngstown or perhaps rust belt thing?
> I’m aware that American city can get more dilapidated due to well political
> choices.

I'd say it's a financial choice, and for roads, a fairly logical one.
I've heard many motorist complaints about potholes, but I've never heard
a motorist complain about gravel or other debris on roads. If one more
city-wide street sweeping means 500 fewer potholes repaired, the
sweeping won't get done.

It makes sense to an elected official or to a city administrator to take
care of the biggest groups of people that generate the most reasonable
complaints. Bicyclists are not at that top of that list.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:33:26 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/18/2024 2:55 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
>>>> largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows
>>>> is often not the same thing.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from right-wing
>>> publications like The Washington Examiner, Washington Times, New York
>>> Post, and the Epoch times.
>>>
>>> Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
>>
>>
>> Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
>
>
>Exactly.
>
>The Administrative State within our US government is more a
>threat to the nation than all the Russians together:
>
>https://nypost.com/2024/02/13/news/cia-and-foreign-intelligence-agencies-illegally-targeted-26-trump-associates-before-2016-russia-collusion-claims-report/

Great news!

Re the above report, which stats in part,

"--– according to a report published Monday on Michael Shellenberger’s
Public Substack.

The report by independent journalists Shellenberger, Matt Taibbi and
Alex Gutentag has not been confirmed by The Post. "

--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 12:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 5:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Since cycle infrastructure tends to be urban roads so do tend to get
>>>> regular cleaning both the road way and pavement, and if not? Why not?
>>>
>>> Roads in our area seem to get swept twice per year. That's enough for
>>> motor vehicle passage, since car tires are not harmed by (say) 1/4" bits
>>> of broken glass. It's not enough for bike facilities.
>>>
>> If true that’s quite significantly less than london or even surrounding
>> areas sweep/litter pick etc which is at least monthly.
>> ...
>>
>> Even Tom’s hell hole gets regularly street cleaning would seem!
>
> I don't know about the street sweeping schedule where Tom lives.
> Actually, it would be interesting to hear from several people in
> different areas. Ours happens mid- to late spring, apparently to get the
> gravel off the road. (A couple years ago my wife had a low speed fall on
> an early spring city ride. From a stop sign, she started into a right
> turn but slipped out on a small pile of gravel.)
>
>> ... this seems to be a Youngstown or perhaps rust belt thing?
>> I’m aware that American city can get more dilapidated due to well political
>> choices.
>
> I'd say it's a financial choice, and for roads, a fairly logical one.
> I've heard many motorist complaints about potholes, but I've never heard
> a motorist complain about gravel or other debris on roads. If one more
> city-wide street sweeping means 500 fewer potholes repaired, the
> sweeping won't get done.
>
> It makes sense to an elected official or to a city administrator to take
> care of the biggest groups of people that generate the most reasonable
> complaints. Bicyclists are not at that top of that list.
>
Places that sweep and sweep often are not sweeping for bikes, even in
london. It’s all the other reasons such as pollution run off, and generally
keeping the place clean after all in some areas will be litter as well as
road debris.

Potholes are fairly common in uk, yet roads do get swept essentially
sweeping the roads is relatively cheap service to run, fixing potholes
isn’t and frankly at that point probably means the entire surface needs
replaced which definitely isn’t cheap.

Roger Merriman

On 2/18/2024 5:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.

There are actually people that believe these things. It's hard to fathom.

I'm currently listening to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
audiobook. The things that the disaffected class in Germany believed are
startlingly similar to the things that Trump voters believe. Facts don't
matter. They believe publications that play on their fears.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
> cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
> just for them.
>
> Roger Merriman

"He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 16:26:48 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 2/18/2024 5:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
>
>There are actually people that believe these things. It's hard to fathom.
>
>I'm currently listening to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
>audiobook. The things that the disaffected class in Germany believed are
>startlingly similar to the things that Trump voters believe.

.... for instance?

> Facts don't
>matter. They believe publications that play on their fears.

<chuckle> I wonder what publications this guy reads to get information
about what Trump voters believe.

https://news.yahoo.com/democrat-says-trump-hand-keys-183304843.html

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:03:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/18/2024 11:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 7:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
>>>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
>>>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
>>>> Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
>>>
>>> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants
>>> open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal
>>> immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a
>>> running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
>>
>> uh, you conflated actual policy positions with pure idiotic fantasy there.
>
>But the idiotic fantasies got tons of publicity and doubtlessly
>generated millions of votes for Trump. It also generated an armed
>assault on a pizza parlor.
>https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-edgar-maddison-welch-sentenced-four-years-prison-n775621
>
>It might be helpful if those on the right who were more logical would
>call out such nonsense. Please don't pretend it has no consequences.

It would have been "helpful" if those on the left would have called
out the leftist media lies, like the Russia_Trump_piss_recording lies.

Well, actually they couldn't because they believed it all was true.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010
The fact-checking site Snopes told BBC Trending radio that in the past
week, for example, they have debunked many more anti-Republican party
stories than pro-Republican ones.

https://amac.us/newsline/society/fake-news-liberal-medias-worst-lies-of-the-2022-elections/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/10/20/america_is_drowning_in_the_lies_of_the_left_144494.html#!

https://www.westernjournal.com/5-left-wing-lies-twitter-refuses-fact-check/

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/top-10-lies-liberal-media-michael-goodwin

On 2/18/2024 1:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Steven, wake up. It was NOT a myth that California taxpayers were
>> paying for cars for illegal aliens. How the hell can you not know that
>> when my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS got new cars! These people are washing
>> dishes in restaurants! How do they get a new Ford and Honda SUV?
>
> Did you ask them? Seems easy enough, if you can be temporarily civil.

That's a pretty big "if"

>

On 2/19/2024 3:57 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:03:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/18/2024 11:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 7:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
>>>>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
>>>>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
>>>>> Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
>>>>
>>>> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants
>>>> open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal
>>>> immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a
>>>> running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
>>>
>>> uh, you conflated actual policy positions with pure idiotic fantasy there.
>>
>> But the idiotic fantasies got tons of publicity and doubtlessly
>> generated millions of votes for Trump. It also generated an armed
>> assault on a pizza parlor.
>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-edgar-maddison-welch-sentenced-four-years-prison-n775621
>>
>> It might be helpful if those on the right who were more logical would
>> call out such nonsense. Please don't pretend it has no consequences.
>
>
> It would have been "helpful" if those on the left would have called
> out the leftist media lies, like the Russia_Trump_piss_recording lies.
>
> Well, actually they couldn't because they believed it all was true.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010
> The fact-checking site Snopes told BBC Trending radio that in the past
> week, for example, they have debunked many more anti-Republican party
> stories than pro-Republican ones.
>
> https://amac.us/newsline/society/fake-news-liberal-medias-worst-lies-of-the-2022-elections/
>
> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/10/20/america_is_drowning_in_the_lies_of_the_left_144494.html#!
>
> https://www.westernjournal.com/5-left-wing-lies-twitter-refuses-fact-check/
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/top-10-lies-liberal-media-michael-goodwin

You're as bad as shitstain at posting op ed pieces as fact.

On 2/19/2024 3:55 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 16:26:48 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/18/2024 5:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
>>
>> There are actually people that believe these things. It's hard to fathom.
>>
>> I'm currently listening to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
>> audiobook. The things that the disaffected class in Germany believed are
>> startlingly similar to the things that Trump voters believe.
>
> ... for instance?
>
>> Facts don't
>> matter. They believe publications that play on their fears.
>
> <chuckle> I wonder what publications this guy reads to get information
> about what Trump voters believe.
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/democrat-says-trump-hand-keys-183304843.html

<snicker>
All he had to do was watch trump at a rally

https://apnews.com/article/trump-nato-foreign-aid-russia-2b8054a9fe185eec34c2c541cece655d

"No I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do
whatever the hell they want."

Floriduh dumbass - willfully ignorant useful idiot.

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:09:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/
>
> You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains some
> interesting details about California laws that apparently give you
> special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

That certainly doesn't look good until you discover that it is "Bicycle Day" in Alameda. One day a year and set up by the city counsel. The attached message is about a street in Oakland that is only about 5 miles long. It parallels the freeway and consequently you have people driving at freeway speeds. You have stupid roads like that everywhere. Even in Youngstown.

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:45:28 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/
> >
> > You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains some
> > interesting details about California laws that apparently give you
> > special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
> >
> Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the
> barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
>
> Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
>
> Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks
> are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
>
> Roger Merriman

I can take you right to that spot. And damage like that lasts maybe one day at the longest. That can occur anywhere.,

On 2/19/2024 4:36 AM, zen cycle wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 1:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Steven, wake up. It was NOT a myth that California taxpayers were
>>> paying for cars for illegal aliens. How the hell can you not know
>>> that when my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS got new cars! These people are
>>> washing dishes in restaurants! How do they get a new Ford and Honda SUV?
>>
>> Did you ask them? Seems easy enough, if you can be temporarily civil.
>
> That's a pretty big "if"

There is no law against an illegal immigrant purchasing a car, new or used.

Neither California, nor any other state, is providing illegal immigrants
with new cars.

And of course "he who must not be named" has no idea as to whether his
neighbors are illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, or not immigrants at
all.

<https://www.factcheck.org/2023/10/conservative-politicians-commentators-recirculate-old-falsehood-on-aid-for-immigrants/>.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
>> cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
>> just for them.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> "He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
> in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
> bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
>

I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris
and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.

Roger Merriman

On 2/19/2024 3:18 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
>>> cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
>>> just for them.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> "He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
>> in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
>> bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
>>
>
> I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris
> and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

Varies greatly from one neighborhood to another within a city:

Chicago for example:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/498984833715941241/

has a system for that. Cyclists call 311, and then City
employees get paid to not respond!

https://chi.streetsblog.org/2021/09/22/whos-protecting-and-maintaining-protected-bike-lanes
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/19/2024 4:08 PM, sms wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 4:36 AM, zen cycle wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 1:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Steven, wake up. It was NOT a myth that California taxpayers were
>>>> paying for cars for illegal aliens. How the hell can you not know
>>>> that when my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS got new cars! These people are
>>>> washing dishes in restaurants! How do they get a new Ford and Honda
>>>> SUV?
>>>
>>> Did you ask them? Seems easy enough, if you can be temporarily civil.
>>
>> That's a pretty big "if"
>
> There is no law against an illegal immigrant purchasing a car, new or used.

I suspect the guy who bought my dearly beloved Honda Civic Station Wagon
was an illegal immigrant. I say that because he was the one who was
enchanted with the car, who examined it and test rode it, etc. But his
wife was the person who actually completed the transaction and title
transfer. (OK, for hair-splitters, I guess he didn't purchase it; she
bought it for him.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/19/2024 4:18 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
>>> cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
>>> just for them.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> "He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
>> in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
>> bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
>>
>
> I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris
> and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.

I don't know what you mean by "quickly." But it's not normally rubbish,
as in things tossed out of cars, etc. It is normally debris, such as
gravel, some broken glass, leaves in autumn, branches and sticks from
trees, etc. And it doesn't have to accumulate quickly when it's roughly
six months between sweepings.

I'm sorry you remain unconvinced. Want some photos? (Some are very old,
shot with a low-res camera.)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103443110/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849733/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103442512/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849187/in/dateposted-public/

How many photos would you like?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 4:18 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
>>>> cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
>>>> just for them.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> "He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
>>> in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
>>> bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
>>>
>>
>> I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris
>> and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "quickly." But it's not normally rubbish,
> as in things tossed out of cars, etc. It is normally debris, such as
> gravel, some broken glass, leaves in autumn, branches and sticks from
> trees, etc. And it doesn't have to accumulate quickly when it's roughly
> six months between sweepings.
>
> I'm sorry you remain unconvinced. Want some photos? (Some are very old,
> shot with a low-res camera.)
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103443110/in/dateposted-public/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849733/in/dateposted-public/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103442512/in/dateposted-public/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849187/in/dateposted-public/
>
> How many photos would you like?
>
>
>