https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 18:39:31 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/

The article seems to say that the older e-things are causing most of
the problems. So, mandatory safety inspection and mandatory liability
insurgence :-)

Works here and I might add when you are insuring the nation's, or
States, entire fleet premiums should be quote manageable.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/3/2024 10:30 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 18:39:31 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
>
> The article seems to say that the older e-things are causing most of
> the problems. So, mandatory safety inspection and mandatory liability
> insurgence :-)

Mandatory insurgence seems like an oxymoron, no? ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 04 Mar 2024 10:30:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 18:39:31 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
>
>The article seems to say that the older e-things are causing most of
>the problems. So, mandatory safety inspection and mandatory liability
>insurgence :-)
>
>Works here and I might add when you are insuring the nation's, or
>States, entire fleet premiums should be quote manageable.

The above "insurgence" is actually spelled "insurance" :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun Mar 3 18:39:31 2024 AMuzi wrote:
> https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> am@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

But Frank and the rest of those that would argue at the drop of a hat claim that Chinese batteries are perfectly safe. You nwill note that these Ebikes were NOT being charge or in some other means under stress. Frank parks his EV in his garage!

There is no way to convince these people who fancy themselves "environmentalists" that "green energy" is in fact the most expensive and worst form of energy in the world. Germany has been shut down by their reliance on wind power and Biden blowing up the Russian pipeline that supplied Germany with fossil fuel to turn the generators on. Swden has had the same problem. England is on the very brink of a power failure and they too are still stressing EV's. PG$E make an additional $223 Billion in profits last year and all because they can charge YOU for the purchase price of wind and solar power.

Liebermann will not be able to afford electricity and will be unable to buy kerosene to run oil lamps. And he will argue that is a good thing.

On Mon Mar 4 13:03:50 2024 John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Mar 2024 10:30:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 18:39:31 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >>https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/
> >
> >The article seems to say that the older e-things are causing most of
> >the problems. So, mandatory safety inspection and mandatory liability
> >insurgence :-)
> >
> >Works here and I might add when you are insuring the nation's, or
> >States, entire fleet premiums should be quote manageable.
>
> The above "insurgence" is actually spelled "insurance" :-)
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.
>

Are you trying to impress everyone that you can spot a typo and assume that everyone else isn't bright enough to do the same?

On 3/4/2024 2:07 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Frank and the rest of those that would argue at the drop of a hat claim that Chinese batteries are perfectly safe.

I never said any such thing. If you think I did, provide a direct link
to my exact statement in context. Otherwise stop lying.

I wish you would restrain yourself to disputing what I've actually said,
instead of what you _pretend_ or _imagine_ I said.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/4/2024 2:07 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Frank and the rest of those that would argue at the drop of a hat claim that Chinese batteries are perfectly safe.
>
> I never said any such thing. If you think I did, provide a direct link
> to my exact statement in context. Otherwise stop lying.
>
> I wish you would restrain yourself to disputing what I've actually said,
> instead of what you _pretend_ or _imagine_ I said.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car in your garage when you're asleep.

On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/4/2024 2:07 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Frank and the rest of those that would argue at the drop of a hat claim that Chinese batteries are perfectly safe.
>>
>> I never said any such thing. If you think I did, provide a direct link
>> to my exact statement in context. Otherwise stop lying.
>>
>> I wish you would restrain yourself to disputing what I've actually said,
>> instead of what you _pretend_ or _imagine_ I said.
>>
> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car in your garage when you're asleep.

It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.

But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
all that fearfulness.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/4/2024 2:07 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Frank and the rest of those that would argue at the drop of a hat claim that Chinese batteries are perfectly safe.
> >>
> >> I never said any such thing. If you think I did, provide a direct link
> >> to my exact statement in context. Otherwise stop lying.
> >>
> >> I wish you would restrain yourself to disputing what I've actually said,
> >> instead of what you _pretend_ or _imagine_ I said.
> >>
> > So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car in your garage when you're asleep.
>
> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
>
> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
> all that fearfulness.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.

And yet you've spent literrally hours over the thought that other law abiding citizens might own a gun. Or that an AR15 is so dangerous that they out to be ourlawed as only being a device used by terrorists. You have claimed that you had to ready yourself to ride though the black and brown neighborhoods in Youngstown.

You have an extremely odd idea of the difference between being vigilant and being afraid. Time to change your diaper.

On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car in your garage when you're asleep.
>>
>> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
>>
>> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
>> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
>
>
> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.

An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!

I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!

I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
and see if it's exploded yet!

....

Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/5/2024 11:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car
>>>> in your garage when you're asleep.
>>>
>>> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
>>>
>>> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
>>> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
>>
>>
>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so
>> safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and
>> put it down to MY fearfulness.

Actually Frank, my answer to that would have been "yes tom, I put it
down to your fearfulness".

>
> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>
> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>
> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
> and see if it's exploded yet!
>
> ...
>
> Nope, it's still there.  You can relax, Tom.  :-)
>

--
Add xx to reply

On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car in your garage when you're asleep.
> >>
> >> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
> >>
> >> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
> >> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
> >
> >
> > You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>
> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>
> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>
> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
> and see if it's exploded yet!
>
> ...
>
> Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.

On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>
>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>
>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>
>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)
>>
>
> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.

:-) Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!

Have you ever had one come true?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed Mar 6 08:24:20 2024 Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 11:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car
> >>>> in your garage when you're asleep.
> >>>
> >>> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
> >>>
> >>> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
> >>> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
> >>
> >>
> >> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so
> >> safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and
> >> put it down to MY fearfulness.
>
> Actually Frank, my answer to that would have been "yes tom, I put it
> down to your fearfulness".
>
> >
> > An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
> > that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
> >
> > I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
> > but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
> > snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
> >
> > I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
> > and see if it's exploded yet!
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)
> >
>
> --
> Add xx to reply
>

I know that you and Frank are stupid and cannot actually know anything. Gasoline is not classified as an explosive since it requires being converted to vapor phase and spark or flame ignition to actually make it burn. Most real engineers would know that there is a difference between being flammable like wood and being explosive like dynomite are different things. So both Frank and you show yourselves to not be nor ever been engineers.

On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.
> >>
> >> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
> >> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
> >>
> >> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
> >> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
> >> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
> >>
> >> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
> >> and see if it's exploded yet!
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)
> >>
> >
> > I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>
> :-) Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>
> Have you ever had one come true?
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Have you ever had a Supreme Court Decision that is anti-2nd Amendment? https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions

On Wed Mar 6 08:24:20 2024 Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 3/5/2024 11:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tue Mar 5 15:42:14 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 3/5/2024 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Mon Mar 4 14:57:02 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> So you're saying that it is perfectly safe to keep you electric car
> >>>> in your garage when you're asleep.
> >>>
> >>> It's certainly safe enough that I have never worried about it one bit.
> >>>
> >>> But I admit, my universe seems much, much less dangerous than yours! You
> >>> post about new fears and dangers almost daily. I just shake my head at
> >>
> >>
> >> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so
> >> safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and
> >> put it down to MY fearfulness.
>
> Actually Frank, my answer to that would have been "yes tom, I put it
> down to your fearfulness".
>
> >
> > An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
> > that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
> >
> > I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
> > but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
> > snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
> >
> > I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
> > and see if it's exploded yet!
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)

https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions

I don't know why my postings don't post all of the way but that's the breaks of the big time.

As you can see by the statistics, Frank does everything wrong and claims that gasoline which is NOT explosive but inflamable and only under specific conditions where it can be changed into its vapor phase (winter cold won't allow gasoline to become vapor, is dangerous. He thinks that 1800 lbs of battery is more efficient than 90 lbs of gasoline. So much for his "training" as a mechanical engineer.

On 3/6/2024 11:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>>>
>>>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>>>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>>>
>>>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>>>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>>>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>>>
>>>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the window
>>>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Nope, it's still there. You can relax, Tom. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>>
>> :-) Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>>
>> Have you ever had one come true?
>>
> -- https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions

"As a reminder, EV fires overall are very rare ..."

That's a point that's been documented here before.

From https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/

"Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs,
but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines."

Also, from
https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-vehicle-fire-rates-study/

"... per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the
lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for
fire, and traditional cars were in the middle."

So I think my chances of an EV fire are very, very low. More likely is a
Tom Kunich garage fire triggered by galvanic corrosion between his
titanium bottom bracket and his flammable carbon fiber frame.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/6/2024 1:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 11:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is
>>>>>> so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure
>>>>>> and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>>>>
>>>>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>>>>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>>>>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>>>>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the
>>>>> window
>>>>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, it's still there.  You can relax, Tom.  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than
>>>> expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and
>>>> entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>>>
>>> :-)  Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>>>
>>> Have you ever had one come true?
>>>
>> --   https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
>
> "As a reminder, EV fires overall are very rare ..."
>
> That's a point that's been documented here before.
>
> From https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/
>
> "Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs,
> but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines."
>
> Also, from
> https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-vehicle-fire-rates-study/
>
> "... per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the
> lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for
> fire, and traditional cars were in the middle."
>
> So I think my chances of an EV fire are very, very low. More likely is a
> Tom Kunich garage fire triggered by galvanic corrosion between his
> titanium bottom bracket and his flammable carbon fiber frame.
>

Now frank, you're forgetting one of the most common causes of house fires:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/B-FD_KfLAwAJ

"Not according to my electrician brother. He said that aluminum
corrosion which is aluminum oxide is flammable.....aluminum connection
to the copper wall socket was since even the humidity in the air in a
home causes corrosion and that plus the electrolytic problem raised
resistance and heat high enough to ignite the aluminum oxide."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/QS3nXQSEAwAJ

"Just called my brother the electrician. He says that the corrosion
products of aluminum wire are flammable "

Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.
--
Add xx to reply

On 3/6/2024 10:58 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:

<snip>

> Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.

The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
end up burning down the house and/or killing someone. When the Chevy
Bolt was having battery fires while charging the manufacturer
recommended only charging it outside.

There are endless articles cited by EV proponents about how Electric
cars are less likely to catch fire than gas cars, but of course there's
more to the story than percentages.

A gasoline-powered car is more likely to catch fire while in operation,
typically caused by a fuel leak combined with an overheating exhaust system.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 13:58:05 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 3/6/2024 1:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 11:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is
>>>>>>> so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure
>>>>>>> and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>>>>>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>>>>>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>>>>>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the
>>>>>> window
>>>>>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, it's still there.  You can relax, Tom.  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than
>>>>> expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and
>>>>> entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>>>>
>>>> :-)  Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever had one come true?
>>>>
>>> --   https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
>>
>> "As a reminder, EV fires overall are very rare ..."
>>
>> That's a point that's been documented here before.
>>
>> From https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/
>>
>> "Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs,
>> but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines."
>>
>> Also, from
>> https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-vehicle-fire-rates-study/
>>
>> "... per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the
>> lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for
>> fire, and traditional cars were in the middle."
>>
>> So I think my chances of an EV fire are very, very low. More likely is a
>> Tom Kunich garage fire triggered by galvanic corrosion between his
>> titanium bottom bracket and his flammable carbon fiber frame.
>>
>
>Now frank, you're forgetting one of the most common causes of house fires:
>
>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/B-FD_KfLAwAJ
>
>"Not according to my electrician brother. He said that aluminum
>corrosion which is aluminum oxide is flammable.....aluminum connection
>to the copper wall socket was since even the humidity in the air in a
>home causes corrosion and that plus the electrolytic problem raised
>resistance and heat high enough to ignite the aluminum oxide."
>
>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/QS3nXQSEAwAJ
>
>"Just called my brother the electrician. He says that the corrosion
>products of aluminum wire are flammable "
>
>Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.

Huh? Aluminum oxide (also known as Alumina or Al2O3) by itself is not
flammable.

<https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf>
"Aluminum oxide itself does not burn. Dusts may form explosive
mixtures in the air"
"Flash Point: Noncombustible"

<https://logitech.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/Aluminium-Oxide-0CON007-022030_1119-English.pdf>
"This product is not flammable or combustible; however, consideration
must be given to the potential fire/explosion hazards from the base
material being processed. Many materials create flammable/explosive
dusts or turnings when machined or ground."

I've never seen my aluminum oxide sandpaper or grinding wheel try to
catch fire (or even smoulder). Alumina ceramics are commonly used for
cooking pots and dishes. The alumina crucibles I use to melt various
metals are good to 3182°F (1750°C).
<https://www.advaluetech.com/technical-alumina-products>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
>
> The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
> most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
> end up burning down the house and/or killing someone.

They "can" end up burning down the house, for some value of "can."

The important question is, how _often_ is that "can"?

From https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html

"The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."

Also "A common [sic] cause of electric car fires is damage to the
vehicle's battery pack — often from a serious crash." IOW, not from
charging in one's garage or anywhere else.

("Common" is misused when discussing one thousandth of a percent.)

Some general advice is pertinent here: If a person finds himself in even
general agreement with Tom, it's a good idea to stop and think carefully
before posting.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/6/2024 6:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 13:58:05 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/2024 1:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2024 11:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is
>>>>>>>> so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure
>>>>>>>> and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>>>>>>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>>>>>>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>>>>>>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the
>>>>>>> window
>>>>>>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, it's still there.  You can relax, Tom.  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than
>>>>>> expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and
>>>>>> entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)  Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever had one come true?
>>>>>
>>>> --   https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
>>>
>>> "As a reminder, EV fires overall are very rare ..."
>>>
>>> That's a point that's been documented here before.
>>>
>>> From https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/
>>>
>>> "Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs,
>>> but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines."
>>>
>>> Also, from
>>> https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-vehicle-fire-rates-study/
>>>
>>> "... per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the
>>> lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for
>>> fire, and traditional cars were in the middle."
>>>
>>> So I think my chances of an EV fire are very, very low. More likely is a
>>> Tom Kunich garage fire triggered by galvanic corrosion between his
>>> titanium bottom bracket and his flammable carbon fiber frame.
>>>
>>
>> Now frank, you're forgetting one of the most common causes of house fires:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/B-FD_KfLAwAJ
>>
>> "Not according to my electrician brother. He said that aluminum
>> corrosion which is aluminum oxide is flammable.....aluminum connection
>> to the copper wall socket was since even the humidity in the air in a
>> home causes corrosion and that plus the electrolytic problem raised
>> resistance and heat high enough to ignite the aluminum oxide."
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/QS3nXQSEAwAJ
>>
>> "Just called my brother the electrician. He says that the corrosion
>> products of aluminum wire are flammable "
>>
>> Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.
>
> Huh? Aluminum oxide (also known as Alumina or Al2O3) by itself is not
> flammable.
>
> <https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf>
> "Aluminum oxide itself does not burn. Dusts may form explosive
> mixtures in the air"
> "Flash Point: Noncombustible"
>
> <https://logitech.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/Aluminium-Oxide-0CON007-022030_1119-English.pdf>
> "This product is not flammable or combustible; however, consideration
> must be given to the potential fire/explosion hazards from the base
> material being processed. Many materials create flammable/explosive
> dusts or turnings when machined or ground."
>
> I've never seen my aluminum oxide sandpaper or grinding wheel try to
> catch fire (or even smoulder). Alumina ceramics are commonly used for
> cooking pots and dishes. The alumina crucibles I use to melt various
> metals are good to 3182°F (1750°C).
> <https://www.advaluetech.com/technical-alumina-products>
>
>

I'm well aware of that
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/kji9rngnR54/m/7f1_MxznBAAJ

It was tommy making the claim. I'm just pointing how how the laws of
physics are different in tommyworld

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
>>
>> The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
>> most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
>> end up burning down the house and/or killing someone.
>
> They "can" end up burning down the house, for some value of "can."
>
> The important question is, how _often_ is that "can"?
>
>
> From https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>
> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>
> Also "A common [sic] cause of electric car fires is damage to the
> vehicle's battery pack — often from a serious crash." IOW, not from
> charging in one's garage or anywhere else.
>
> ("Common" is misused when discussing one thousandth of a percent.)
>
> Some general advice is pertinent here: If a person finds himself in even
> general agreement with Tom, it's a good idea to stop and think carefully
> before posting.
>
Certainly with bikes and other such similar things the common theme is
cheap fairly iffy devices. Hence in london e bikes which are regulated vs e
scooter and similar which aren’t and do have an increased chance of going
pop!

Roger Merriman

On Wed Mar 6 22:09:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
> >
> > The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
> > most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
> > end up burning down the house and/or killing someone.
>
> They "can" end up burning down the house, for some value of "can."
>
> The important question is, how _often_ is that "can"?
>
>
> From https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>
> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>
> Also "A common [sic] cause of electric car fires is damage to the
> vehicle's battery pack ? often from a serious crash." IOW, not from
> charging in one's garage or anywhere else.
>
> ("Common" is misused when discussing one thousandth of a percent.)
>
> Some general advice is pertinent here: If a person finds himself in even
> general agreement with Tom, it's a good idea to stop and think carefully
> before posting.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

As we all know, thoise cameras just happened to be pointed at EV's that chose for themselves to ignite or explode. There is no end of the excuses of EV owners that will claim just about anthing as an excuse to buy Joe Biden's "I have a DREAM - and I'm going to force it one you" speach.