On Thu Mar 7 16:12:12 2024 Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wed Mar 6 22:09:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
> > >
> > > The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
> > > most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
> > > end up burning down the house and/or killing someone.
> >
> > They "can" end up burning down the house, for some value of "can."
> >
> > The important question is, how _often_ is that "can"?
> >
> >
> > From https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
> >
> > "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> > was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> > difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> > globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> > fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
> >
> > Also "A common [sic] cause of electric car fires is damage to the
> > vehicle's battery pack ? often from a serious crash." IOW, not from
> > charging in one's garage or anywhere else.
> >
> > ("Common" is misused when discussing one thousandth of a percent.)
> >
> > Some general advice is pertinent here: If a person finds himself in even
> > general agreement with Tom, it's a good idea to stop and think carefully
> > before posting.
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
>
>
>
>
> As we all know, thoise cameras just happened to be pointed at EV's that chose for themselves to ignite or explode. There is no end of the excuses of EV owners that will claim just about anthing as an excuse to buy Joe Biden's "I have a DREAM - and I'm going to force it one you" speach.

Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions alive? When I showed the two EV explosions Flunky claimed that melted cars could be there for any reason. That they could have been gas fires that melted the cars down. You're sounding more4 and more like Folunky every day.

On 3/7/2024 11:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wed Mar 6 22:09:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
>>>
>>> The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
>>> most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
>>> end up burning down the house and/or killing someone.
>>
>> They "can" end up burning down the house, for some value of "can."
>>
>> The important question is, how _often_ is that "can"?
>>
>>
>> From https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>>
>> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
>> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
>> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
>> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
>> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>>
>> Also "A common [sic] cause of electric car fires is damage to the
>> vehicle's battery pack ? often from a serious crash." IOW, not from
>> charging in one's garage or anywhere else.
>>
>> ("Common" is misused when discussing one thousandth of a percent.)
>>
>> Some general advice is pertinent here: If a person finds himself in even
>> general agreement with Tom, it's a good idea to stop and think carefully
>> before posting.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
>
>
>
> As we all know, thoise cameras just happened to be pointed at EV's that chose for themselves to ignite or explode.

:-) Sure, Tom - "all those cameras." Why not post links to a
statistically representative photos of car fires of all types?

If you do that, you'll need over 100 times as many photos of gasoline
cars compared to electric cars.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 10:58 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.
>
> The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
> most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
> end up burning down the house and/or killing someone. When the Chevy
> Bolt was having battery fires while charging the manufacturer
> recommended only charging it outside.
>
> There are endless articles cited by EV proponents about how Electric
> cars are less likely to catch fire than gas cars, but of course there's
> more to the story than percentages.
>
> A gasoline-powered car is more likely to catch fire while in operation,
> typically caused by a fuel leak combined with an overheating exhaust
> system.
>

The mechanism by which EVs vs ICEs catch fire wasn't under dispute (and
I would argue at least in this forum, already well-understood by the
rational members). This issue is tommy's ignorant fear-mongering that
every EV on the planet will eventually spontaneously bust into a
mushroom cloud

--
Add xx to reply

On 3/6/2024 6:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 13:58:05 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/2024 1:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2024 11:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wed Mar 6 10:52:28 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>> On 3/6/2024 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue Mar 5 23:38:47 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2024 5:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You think that putting an explosive device insite your garage is
>>>>>>>> so safe that you don't mind sleeping near it in a wooden structure
>>>>>>>> and put it down to MY fearfulness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An explosive device in my garage? I did that for decades and decades -
>>>>>>> that is, various cars with 10+ gallon tanks of gasoline! Oooh, scary!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still do it just a bit. There's no gasoline engine car in my garage,
>>>>>>> but there's a motorcycle, two lawn mowers, two rototillers, one
>>>>>>> snowblower and - gosh! - a portable gas can!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't realize how scary my garage was. I'd better look out the
>>>>>>> window
>>>>>>> and see if it's exploded yet!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, it's still there.  You can relax, Tom.  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to relax. I hope that you're one of the more often than
>>>>>> expected EV fires so that you can stay in a motel for the winter and
>>>>>> entire riding season in Ohio so that you might learn a lesson.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)  Yet another Tom Kunich prediction!
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever had one come true?
>>>>>
>>>> --   https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
>>>
>>> "As a reminder, EV fires overall are very rare ..."
>>>
>>> That's a point that's been documented here before.
>>>
>>> From https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/
>>>
>>> "Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs,
>>> but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines."
>>>
>>> Also, from
>>> https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-vehicle-fire-rates-study/
>>>
>>> "... per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the
>>> lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for
>>> fire, and traditional cars were in the middle."
>>>
>>> So I think my chances of an EV fire are very, very low. More likely is a
>>> Tom Kunich garage fire triggered by galvanic corrosion between his
>>> titanium bottom bracket and his flammable carbon fiber frame.
>>>
>>
>> Now frank, you're forgetting one of the most common causes of house fires:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/B-FD_KfLAwAJ
>>
>> "Not according to my electrician brother. He said that aluminum
>> corrosion which is aluminum oxide is flammable.....aluminum connection
>> to the copper wall socket was since even the humidity in the air in a
>> home causes corrosion and that plus the electrolytic problem raised
>> resistance and heat high enough to ignite the aluminum oxide."
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/0VbRAhy04CU/QS3nXQSEAwAJ
>>
>> "Just called my brother the electrician. He says that the corrosion
>> products of aluminum wire are flammable "
>>
>> Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.
>
> Huh? Aluminum oxide (also known as Alumina or Al2O3) by itself is not
> flammable.

I'm aware of that:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/kji9rngnR54/m/7f1_MxznBAAJ

I was pointing out tommys alternate version of reality

>
> <https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf>
> "Aluminum oxide itself does not burn. Dusts may form explosive
> mixtures in the air"
> "Flash Point: Noncombustible"
>
> <https://logitech.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/Aluminium-Oxide-0CON007-022030_1119-English.pdf>
> "This product is not flammable or combustible; however, consideration
> must be given to the potential fire/explosion hazards from the base
> material being processed. Many materials create flammable/explosive
> dusts or turnings when machined or ground."
>
> I've never seen my aluminum oxide sandpaper or grinding wheel try to
> catch fire (or even smoulder). Alumina ceramics are commonly used for
> cooking pots and dishes. The alumina crucibles I use to melt various
> metals are good to 3182°F (1750°C).
> <https://www.advaluetech.com/technical-alumina-products>
>
>

--
Add xx to reply

On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?

Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?

Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
won't hold my breath.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/7/2024 11:38 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 5:33 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 10:58 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Remember, the laws of physics are different in tommyworld.
>>
>> The issue with EV fires, both for cars and bicycles, is that they are
>> most likely to occur during charging, and if charging at home they can
>> end up burning down the house and/or killing someone. When the Chevy
>> Bolt was having battery fires while charging the manufacturer
>> recommended only charging it outside.
>>
>> There are endless articles cited by EV proponents about how Electric
>> cars are less likely to catch fire than gas cars, but of course
>> there's more to the story than percentages.
>>
>> A gasoline-powered car is more likely to catch fire while in
>> operation, typically caused by a fuel leak combined with an
>> overheating exhaust system.
>>
>
> The mechanism by which EVs vs ICEs catch fire wasn't under dispute (and
> I would argue at least in this forum, already well-understood by the
> rational members). This issue is tommy's ignorant fear-mongering that
> every EV on the planet will eventually spontaneously bust into a
> mushroom cloud

From what I can find online, it looks like Chevrolet has sold well over
150,000 Bolts, and nineteen of them caught fire while charging.

Again: "... battery electric vehicles have only a 0.025% chance of
catching fire, compared to 1.5% for internal combustion engine vehicles
and 3.4% for hybrid vehicles."

That's from
https://community.vinfastauto.us/driving/the-fire-rate-of-electric-vehicles-is-61-times-lower-than-that-of-gasoline-vehicles/

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
>
> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
>
> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
> won't hold my breath.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.

On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
>
> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
>
> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
> won't hold my breath.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Frank, how many citations do you need? Are you simply closing your eyes?
https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions

On Thu, 07 Mar 2024 20:21:05 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.

"Car Explodes at Gas Station After Driver Lights Cigarette"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBFVb2a7Mo>

I watched something similar happen at the Santa Cruz Harbor fuel dock.
The idiot that was filling his small fishing boat with gasoline, while
smoking a cigarette, was launched about 50ft in the air and landed in
the middle of the channel. Even though there was no confinement of
the fuel vapors, the noise of the explosion was deafening.

Ummm did you ever take photos of the scorch marks on Redwood Rd, where
you claim EV's burned and melted into the asphalt?

<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/dQ_wCTZqAQAJ>
"EV fires are not a joke and on Redwood Rd. there are cars melted into
the surface that are EV's after the fact. There is also one on Dublin
Canyon Rd. These do NOT appear to have been wrecks but spontaneous
combustion which is why Elon opened his own battery factory in Nevada
so he could have tighter control over battery QC."
<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=vid>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=isch>
Note that the quotation marks around the words "gasoline" and
"explosion" insures that the links will have both words included.

More gasoline car fires:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/i0DOZ4FwAQAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/y-YbT2YTAgAJ>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 3/7/2024 2:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
>>
>> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
>> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
>>
>> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
>> won't hold my breath.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
> Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.

Uh, those are newsy regularly in every major city

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dashcam-video-shows-car-fly-off-highway-overpass-burst-into-flames-during-police-chase/3450304/

https://abc7.com/134-freeway-overpass-crash-griffith-park/14490009/

the occupant is equally dead, or equally at risk of death,
with either fuel.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/7/2024 3:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
>>
>> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
>> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
>>
>> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
>> won't hold my breath.
>
>
> Frank, how many citations do you need? Are you simply closing your eyes?
> https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions

Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."

14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
should pretend it's likely to happen to me?

You really must live a life of constant fear!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu Mar 7 14:07:30 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2024 20:21:05 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.
>
> "Car Explodes at Gas Station After Driver Lights Cigarette"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBFVb2a7Mo>
>
> I watched something similar happen at the Santa Cruz Harbor fuel dock.
> The idiot that was filling his small fishing boat with gasoline, while
> smoking a cigarette, was launched about 50ft in the air and landed in
> the middle of the channel. Even though there was no confinement of
> the fuel vapors, the noise of the explosion was deafening.
>
> Ummm did you ever take photos of the scorch marks on Redwood Rd, where
> you claim EV's burned and melted into the asphalt?
>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/dQ_wCTZqAQAJ>
> "EV fires are not a joke and on Redwood Rd. there are cars melted into
> the surface that are EV's after the fact. There is also one on Dublin
> Canyon Rd. These do NOT appear to have been wrecks but spontaneous
> combustion which is why Elon opened his own battery factory in Nevada
> so he could have tighter control over battery QC."
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=vid>
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=isch>
> Note that the quotation marks around the words "gasoline" and
> "explosion" insures that the links will have both words included.
>
> More gasoline car fires:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/i0DOZ4FwAQAJ>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/y-YbT2YTAgAJ>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

More blatant refusal to analyze what really occurred because Liebermann isn't smart enough to do so.

If you look at the exoplosion you can see that there was a major leak of gasoline all over the pavement allowing it to vaporize. This was also all over the inside of the car. This was a "flashover" plainly seen by the driver being able to exit the car. It was not an explosion as such which was also plainly seen by the fact that the windshield wasn't broken or blown off.

Liebhermann continues to insist that he is the world's greatest expert on anything contrary to what I say. If this was an explosion why was it so easily put out with fire extinquishers vs. the EV explosions killing the people inside? And the fact that fire departments no longer TRY to put out an EV fire?

Liebermann, your extreme lack of intelligence continues to impress the entire world.

On Thu Mar 7 19:46:48 2024 AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/7/2024 2:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
> >>
> >> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
> >> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
> >>
> >> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
> >> won't hold my breath.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >
> > Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.
>
> Uh, those are newsy regularly in every major city
>
> https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dashcam-video-shows-car-fly-off-highway-overpass-burst-into-flames-during-police-chase/3450304/
>
> https://abc7.com/134-freeway-overpass-crash-griffith-park/14490009/
>
> the occupant is equally dead, or equally at risk of death,
> with either fuel.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> am@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>

Do I have to list the exceptions? A high speed chase ending in a car going over an overpass is hardly descriptive of a gas explosion. Nor wrecks or the case of that "flashover" which was caused by something very irregular such as the gas hose being damaged or perhaps a hole in the gas tank since the flash was also inside of the vehicle.

CAN you make a gasoline vehicle explode? Certainly under unusual conditions that do not normally occur yiou can.

But that hardly occurs as it does in an EV that simply sitting there explodes or driving down the street minding your own business and you become a crispy critter without reason. On the internet someplace it shows school buses exploding one after the other. Would you rather send your children to school in an ICE vehicle or an EV?

Remember I LIKE the idea of an EV because they simply never wear out, motor-wise. The weakness presently is the batteries and until that is corrected the ICE is a much more intelligent means of moving.

On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/7/2024 3:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thu Mar 7 14:55:17 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/7/2024 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just for the fun of it Frank, How many people made it out of those rxplosions [sic] alive?
> >>
> >> Which explosions? The ones in your imagination? Or are you referring to
> >> the huge count of fires involving gasoline engine cars?
> >>
> >> Perhaps you should give a link to the explosions you have in mind. But I
> >> won't hold my breath.
> >
> >
> > Frank, how many citations do you need? Are you simply closing your eyes?
> > https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
>
> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
>
> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
>
> You really must live a life of constant fear!
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

There we have it directly from Krygowski - first he shows that he delights in discovering a typo that normal people wouldn't even notice, and then he tells you the world total of EV's (which is probably grossly distorted since they are inclusing Golf Carts in it) and then he claims there was only 12 EV "fires" when they are explosions. That is a complete and total lie but you're willing to go along with it. On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than willing to lie because that is what you are.

Frank why am I living a life of constant fear when the very thought of you working as a real engineer drove you into a nice safe life of academia where you did not actually have to think about anything? At least I worked as a real engineer facing real problems every day and suffering consequeces such as getting my lungs burned by poison gas through idiot mistakes by other academics. Or countless reiterations of the firmware for the respiratory gas analyzers as the consulting doctors kept discovering more and more uses of the analytical levels that could be used by pathologists to identify more and more conditions that could be corrected with the exact data.

But according to this stupid SOB, there are 10 million EV's in the world and only 12 of them blew up.

There are no lies greater than those you tell yourself.

On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
>> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
>> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
>>
>> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
>> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
>>
>> You really must live a life of constant fear!
>
>
> ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than willing to lie because that is what you are.

First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
"explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.

If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
have a fire) than electric powered cars.

Again: From
https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html

"The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."

> Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...

I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri Mar 8 16:47:00 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
> >> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
> >> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
> >>
> >> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
> >> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
> >>
> >> You really must live a life of constant fear!
> >
> >
> > ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than willing to lie because that is what you are.
>
> First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
> "explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
> that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.
>
> If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
> documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
> have a fire) than electric powered cars.
>
> Again: From
> https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>
> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>
> > Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...
>
> I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Frank, give it up. There isn't anything you won't lie about because it suits your purpose. And if yoyu aren't lying you are so deluded that you clearly are incompetent. Those who can, do, and those who cannot, teach. And you've shown yourself clearly capable of teaching lies.

On 3/9/2024 9:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Fri Mar 8 16:47:00 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
>>>> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
>>>> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
>>>>
>>>> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
>>>> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
>>>>
>>>> You really must live a life of constant fear!
>>>
>>>
>>> ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than willing to lie because that is what you are.
>>
>> First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
>> "explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
>> that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.
>>
>> If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
>> documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
>> have a fire) than electric powered cars.
>>
>> Again: From
>> https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>>
>> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
>> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
>> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
>> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
>> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>>
>>> Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...
>>
>> I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.
>>
>
> Frank, give it up. There isn't anything you won't lie about...

I'm not lying, Tom. I'm giving data I've found, with links. We should be
able to discuss that data.

You refuse to give links with actual data. Seems you're basing your
fears on anecdotes and imagination rather than data.

Or perhaps you're purposely lying.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat Mar 9 11:48:40 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/9/2024 9:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Fri Mar 8 16:47:00 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
> >>>> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
> >>>> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
> >>>>
> >>>> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
> >>>> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
> >>>>
> >>>> You really must live a life of constant fear!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than willing to lie because that is what you are.
> >>
> >> First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
> >> "explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
> >> that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.
> >>
> >> If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
> >> documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
> >> have a fire) than electric powered cars.
> >>
> >> Again: From
> >> https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
> >>
> >> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> >> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> >> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> >> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> >> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
> >>
> >>> Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...
> >>
> >> I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.
> >>
> >
> > Frank, give it up. There isn't anything you won't lie about...
>
> I'm not lying, Tom. I'm giving data I've found, with links. We should be
> able to discuss that data.
>
> You refuse to give links with actual data. Seems you're basing your
> fears on anecdotes and imagination rather than data.
>
> Or perhaps you're purposely lying.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Frank, you're so full of shit it is leaking out of your pores. There are more electric cars in California than the rest of the US combined. Don't hand us that 10 million EV's bullshit since that includes Golf Carts.

And don't pass around that only 12 EV fires since that is an outright lie.

The weakness is the battery system so be sure and park it in your garage and charge it overnight.

On 3/9/2024 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/9/2024 9:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Fri Mar 8 16:47:00 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
>>>>> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
>>>>> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
>>>>>
>>>>> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
>>>>> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
>>>>>
>>>>> You really must live a life of constant fear!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in
>>>> China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of
>>>> someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than
>>>> willing to lie because that is what you are.
>>>
>>> First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
>>> "explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
>>> that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.
>>>
>>> If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
>>> documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
>>> have a fire) than electric powered cars.
>>>
>>> Again:   From
>>> https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
>>>
>>> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
>>> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
>>> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
>>> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
>>> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
>>>
>>>> Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...
>>>
>>> I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.
>>>
>>
>> Frank, give it up. There isn't anything you won't lie about...
>
> I'm not lying, Tom. I'm giving data I've found, with links. We should be
> able to discuss that data.
>
> You refuse to give links with actual data. Seems you're basing your
> fears on anecdotes and imagination rather than data.
>
> Or perhaps you're purposely lying.
>

DING DING DING DING....WE HAVE A WINNAH!!!!!

On Sun Mar 10 07:54:01 2024 zen cycle wrote:
> On 3/9/2024 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/9/2024 9:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Fri Mar 8 16:47:00 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 3/8/2024 12:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Thu Mar 7 23:39:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for proving the worldwide total is not precisely zero, Tom. As
> >>>>> your site says, "14 EV explosion incidents since 2010 - that's from a
> >>>>> global market of 10 million EVs in operation..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 14 cases out of ten million in a period of 12 years? And you think I
> >>>>> should pretend it's likely to happen to me?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You really must live a life of constant fear!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ... On Youtube you can watch videos of far more than 12 EV fires in
> >>>> China alone. And those were vehicles that happened to be in front of
> >>>> someone with a video camera handy. But, as I say, you are more than
> >>>> willing to lie because that is what you are.
> >>>
> >>> First, we should decide whether we're talking about "fires" or
> >>> "explosions." Which is it? You first harangued about explosions, and
> >>> that's what the 14 out of 10 million was about.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to talk about fires, you've already gotten several citations
> >>> documenting that gasoline engine cars are far more likely to burn (i.e.
> >>> have a fire) than electric powered cars.
> >>>
> >>> Again: From
> >>> https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html
> >>>
> >>> "The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire
> >>> was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was
> >>> difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles
> >>> globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated
> >>> fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)."
> >>>
> >>>> Frank why am I living a life of constant fear...
> >>>
> >>> I don't know, Tom. Maybe a therapist can help you figure that out.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Frank, give it up. There isn't anything you won't lie about...
> >
> > I'm not lying, Tom. I'm giving data I've found, with links. We should be
> > able to discuss that data.
> >
> > You refuse to give links with actual data. Seems you're basing your
> > fears on anecdotes and imagination rather than data.
> >
> > Or perhaps you're purposely lying.
> >
>
> DING DING DING DING....WE HAVE A WINNAH!!!!!+

There is a reason that you like saying "DING". Your fellow Fairies like to hear it when you're sucking them off. Tell us Flunky, when everyone is ordered out of work, how does the market go up?

On 3/8/2024 10:07 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thu Mar 7 14:07:30 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Mar 2024 20:21:05 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Show ONE gasoline ICE explosion. How many EV explosions do you have to see cited before you admit that EV's can explode causing dangerous fires. IF this occurs when you're driving down the road with your seat belt on, you will be VERY lucky to escape the fire.
>>
>> "Car Explodes at Gas Station After Driver Lights Cigarette"
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBFVb2a7Mo>
>>
>> I watched something similar happen at the Santa Cruz Harbor fuel dock.
>> The idiot that was filling his small fishing boat with gasoline, while
>> smoking a cigarette, was launched about 50ft in the air and landed in
>> the middle of the channel. Even though there was no confinement of
>> the fuel vapors, the noise of the explosion was deafening.
>>
>> Ummm did you ever take photos of the scorch marks on Redwood Rd, where
>> you claim EV's burned and melted into the asphalt?
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/dQ_wCTZqAQAJ>
>> "EV fires are not a joke and on Redwood Rd. there are cars melted into
>> the surface that are EV's after the fact. There is also one on Dublin
>> Canyon Rd. These do NOT appear to have been wrecks but spontaneous
>> combustion which is why Elon opened his own battery factory in Nevada
>> so he could have tighter control over battery QC."
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=vid>
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gasoline%22+%22explosion%22+car&tbm=isch>
>> Note that the quotation marks around the words "gasoline" and
>> "explosion" insures that the links will have both words included.
>>
>> More gasoline car fires:
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/i0DOZ4FwAQAJ>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QM7CD5zO3hc/m/y-YbT2YTAgAJ>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
>
>
>
> More blatant refusal to analyze what really occurred because Liebermann isn't smart enough to do so.
>
> If you look at the exoplosion you can see that there was a major leak of gasoline all over the pavement allowing it to vaporize. This was also all over the inside of the car. This was a "flashover" plainly seen by the driver being able to exit the car. It was not an explosion as such which was also plainly seen by the fact that the windshield wasn't broken or blown off.
>
> Liebhermann continues to insist that he is the world's greatest expert on anything contrary to what I say. If this was an explosion why was it so easily put out with fire extinquishers vs. the EV explosions killing the people inside? And the fact that fire departments no longer TRY to put out an EV fire?
>
> Liebermann, your extreme lack of intelligence continues to impress the entire world.

This just in:
https://www.theblaze.com/news/watch-bodycam-footage-released-after-los-angeles-teen-burns-to-death-in-horrifying-car-crash

No chinese batteries were involved in the incident.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971