The bikes I'm riding at the moment are:
1 Steel Basso Loto with 10 speed Dura Ace
2 Aluminum Specialized Allez with 10 speed Dura Ace
3 Very loight steel Tommasini Fire with Campy 1 speed
4 BMC SLO-01 with Campy 12 speed (this weighs about the samje as the Allez)

5. Though presently out of service the Trek Alpha 1.5 which is a Madone copy in aluminum The short time I used it yesterday the cheapo Look pedals were troublesome so I'll return to Keo Max. The FSA Gossomer (aluminum) EVO cranks are actually lighter than the Campy Super Record 10 speed crankis I have. This is because the connecting shaft is much lighter with the 30 mm shaft vs the Campy 25 mm with a Hertz joint in the middle. The FSA is a four arm version. When it had the Campy 11 speed and the short time it was working with the 10 speed Dura Ace, it steers very well.

The bikes I've been trying to sell are:

1. The Cannondale Optimo gravel bike. This is a very nice riding bike but I simply don't have a use for it anymore. It is a 9 speed Dura Ace and if parts weren't so hard to come by, I would use 9 speeds on everything.
2. Ridley Helium with Shimano DI2. My hands are no longer sensitive enough to tell the upshift lever from the downshift lever and I HATE shifting faster when I start a hill. For younger people with full faculties this would be a good climbing bike.
3. Steel normal size tubing Aliverti which looks almoar new. This is also a good riding bike and I did quite a bit of climbing on it. It has a new Campy Chorus 11 speed group with about 300 miles on it. I simply have to reduce my collection to make some room in the garage.
4. If I can get the fork setting work on the Fondriest, I will sell it. I think that it has a Record 11 speed group but I have to get it to work first. I don't dump propblems on others.
5. The BMC SLO-01. This is a great riding bike but we're back to reducing inventory. The Chorus 12 speed works well but again, I don't like so much shifting. Thou it would be nice to have a 13-24 instead of that 11-34. I'm not even sure that the pro's use the 11 even down hills. I caught a closeup of a fast downhill and none of the pro's seem to be in top gear. (the SRAM electric shifters use a 10 tooth rear and they all apppeared to be in the center of the cassette.) The problem is that the human body has more range than the top 7 gears of an 12 speed. So you end up skipping over those too tight gears. Why pay for gears you never use? I even saw a local criterium where several of the Cat 1's were riding 8 speeds and 13-21's whiuch these days requite custom made 127 mm wheels and you have to have your rear triangle respaced to 127.

I also have a bunch of parts up for sale on the local Craigslist but absolutely nothing is moving including a complete Campy Centaur group with aero wheels wirh good tires on them (take-offs from the Alpha) The weakness oif the Centaur is that it shifts like the Dura Ace - Three up and on at a time down. The Chorus and above make multiple shifts in both directions. Since you rarely need this, Big Whoop.

The ONLY offer I've had for anything wass for the Cannondale and the guy never showed up and later emailed that he had bought a "cheap beginner bike".

One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.

But you would think that there would be a market for good bikes so why is nothing moving?

On 4/19/2024 11:41 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> The bikes I'm riding at the moment are:
> 1 Steel Basso Loto with 10 speed Dura Ace
> 2 Aluminum Specialized Allez with 10 speed Dura Ace
> 3 Very loight steel Tommasini Fire with Campy 1 speed
> 4 BMC SLO-01 with Campy 12 speed (this weighs about the samje as the Allez)
>
> 5. Though presently out of service the Trek Alpha 1.5 which is a Madone copy in aluminum The short time I used it yesterday the cheapo Look pedals were troublesome so I'll return to Keo Max. The FSA Gossomer (aluminum) EVO cranks are actually lighter than the Campy Super Record 10 speed crankis I have. This is because the connecting shaft is much lighter with the 30 mm shaft vs the Campy 25 mm with a Hertz joint in the middle. The FSA is a four arm version. When it had the Campy 11 speed and the short time it was working with the 10 speed Dura Ace, it steers very well.
>
> The bikes I've been trying to sell are:
>
> 1. The Cannondale Optimo gravel bike. This is a very nice riding bike but I simply don't have a use for it anymore. It is a 9 speed Dura Ace and if parts weren't so hard to come by, I would use 9 speeds on everything.
> 2. Ridley Helium with Shimano DI2. My hands are no longer sensitive enough to tell the upshift lever from the downshift lever and I HATE shifting faster when I start a hill. For younger people with full faculties this would be a good climbing bike.
> 3. Steel normal size tubing Aliverti which looks almoar new. This is also a good riding bike and I did quite a bit of climbing on it. It has a new Campy Chorus 11 speed group with about 300 miles on it. I simply have to reduce my collection to make some room in the garage.
> 4. If I can get the fork setting work on the Fondriest, I will sell it. I think that it has a Record 11 speed group but I have to get it to work first. I don't dump propblems on others.
> 5. The BMC SLO-01. This is a great riding bike but we're back to reducing inventory. The Chorus 12 speed works well but again, I don't like so much shifting. Thou it would be nice to have a 13-24 instead of that 11-34. I'm not even sure that the pro's use the 11 even down hills. I caught a closeup of a fast downhill and none of the pro's seem to be in top gear. (the SRAM electric shifters use a 10 tooth rear and they all apppeared to be in the center of the cassette.) The problem is that the human body has more range than the top 7 gears of an 12 speed. So you end up skipping over those too tight gears. Why pay for gears you never use? I even saw a local criterium where several of the Cat 1's were riding 8 speeds and 13-21's whiuch these days requite custom made 127 mm wheels and you have to have your rear triangle respaced to 127.
>
> I also have a bunch of parts up for sale on the local Craigslist but absolutely nothing is moving including a complete Campy Centaur group with aero wheels wirh good tires on them (take-offs from the Alpha) The weakness oif the Centaur is that it shifts like the Dura Ace - Three up and on at a time down. The Chorus and above make multiple shifts in both directions. Since you rarely need this, Big Whoop.
>
> The ONLY offer I've had for anything wass for the Cannondale and the guy never showed up and later emailed that he had bought a "cheap beginner bike".
>
> One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.
>
> But you would think that there would be a market for good bikes so why is nothing moving?

Spelling: hirth

https://memim.com/hirth-joint.html
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 16:41:50 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.

They're probably better off without the group, anyway. Why would
anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?

On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 16:41:50 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.
>
> They're probably better off without the group, anyway. Why would
> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?

As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
just like it in hell for someone else.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 16:41:50 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.
>>
>> They're probably better off without the group, anyway. Why would
>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>
>
>As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>just like it in hell for someone else.

Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
them following other people.

On 4/19/2024 3:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 16:41:50 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the things that I've been seeing is bike clubs are out riding again. They are making the same mistakes that clubs before them have made - not separating the group into speed ranges so that you're not blowing the slow guys off of the back. That discourages them and they simply don't return.
>>>
>>> They're probably better off without the group, anyway. Why would
>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>
>>
>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>
> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
> them following other people.

Yes, that's exactly right. Another very good reason I can't
stand The Planners.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> Why would
>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>
>>
>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>
> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
> them following other people.

So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.

On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.

I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.

Some folks are much more limited.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi
>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> Why would
>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>
>>>
>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>
>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's
>> directions have
>> them following other people.
>
> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most
> limited riding regime, thinks there's no joy or value in
> riding with others.
>
> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation
> with at least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a
> few roads I'd never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At
> the group ride's end, I carried on solo for another 16 miles
> or so at a higher pace.
>
> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding
> solo, riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for
> recreation or for utility.
>
> Some folks are much more limited.
>
That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.

Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with
whomsoever he pleases. Or with no one.

I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35
years ago and don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,
at all. Oh, and I am never alone. This week I'm riding
with Tacitus (I'm reading his 'Histories'), Hannah Arendt
(just finished her Past and Future) and others. With Billie
Holiday in the background.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/19/2024 9:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> Why would
>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>
>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>> them following other people.
>>
>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>
>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at
>> least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd
>> never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I
>> carried on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>
>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo,
>> riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>
>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>
> That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.
>
> Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with whomsoever
> he pleases. Or with no one.

Which would be fine if mr floriduh dumbass would acccept that others are
free to ride with groups under a structured course. He claims to, but we
know from his statements that he judges those who choose to do so. IOW,
fuck him.

>
> I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35 years ago and
> don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,  at all.  Oh, and I am
> never alone. This week I'm riding with Tacitus (I'm reading his
> 'Histories'), Hannah Arendt (just finished her Past and Future) and
> others. With Billie Holiday in the background.

https://media.tenor.com/jYZmxGqvQKsAAAAC/old-man-yells-at-cloud-yelling.gif

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 19:18:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> Why would
>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>
>>>
>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>
>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>> them following other people.
>
>So the grumpiest person here,

Krygowski is the one who attacks people for doing things that don't
affect him and are none of his business.

>and the one with the most limited riding
>regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.

I said I don't care to follow other people's directions. Group rides
are about someone else deciding when, where, and how fast you go, when
to make a rest stop, and when to go again.

If it gives you joy and value to follow other people's directions,
then don't let my opinions deter you.

>On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>8 different people,

Do you really keep track of all the people who'll talk to you?

>and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>ridden, some with beautiful scenery.
>At the group ride's end, I carried
>on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.

Wow... 16 miles.

>I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>Some folks are much more limited.

Some folks simply don't need other people's attention and
acknowledgement.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 20:33:15 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi
>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> Why would
>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>
>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's
>>> directions have
>>> them following other people.
>>
>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most
>> limited riding regime, thinks there's no joy or value in
>> riding with others.
>>
>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation
>> with at least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a
>> few roads I'd never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At
>> the group ride's end, I carried on solo for another 16 miles
>> or so at a higher pace.
>>
>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding
>> solo, riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for
>> recreation or for utility.
>>
>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>
>That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.
>
>Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with
>whomsoever he pleases. Or with no one.
>
>I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35
>years ago and don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,
> at all. Oh, and I am never alone. This week I'm riding
>with Tacitus (I'm reading his 'Histories'), Hannah Arendt
>(just finished her Past and Future) and others. With Billie
>Holiday in the background.

I turn on my music sometimes, and sometimes I work on my current book,
or plan a future one. None of that involves small talk.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:38:25 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/19/2024 9:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>> them following other people.
>>>
>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>
>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at
>>> least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd
>>> never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I
>>> carried on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo,
>>> riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>
>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>
>> That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.
>>
>> Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with whomsoever
>> he pleases. Or with no one.
>
>Which would be fine if mr floriduh dumbass would acccept that others are
>free to ride with groups under a structured course. He claims to, but we
>know from his statements that he judges those who choose to do so. IOW,
>fuck him.
>

Judgements of me, like the one above, don't interfere with my rides.
It's kind of funny to suggest that my judgements of other people might
interfere with their rides.

>>
>> I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35 years ago and
>> don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,  at all.  Oh, and I am
>> never alone. This week I'm riding with Tacitus (I'm reading his
>> 'Histories'), Hannah Arendt (just finished her Past and Future) and
>> others. With Billie Holiday in the background.
>
>https://media.tenor.com/jYZmxGqvQKsAAAAC/old-man-yells-at-cloud-yelling.gif

It's impossible to not judge other people. It's human nature to pick
and choose how to deal with others based on your judgement of them.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> Why would
>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>
>>>
>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>
>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>> them following other people.
>
> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>
> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>
> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>
> Some folks are much more limited.
>
Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
someone I’d not ridden with much.

Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.

Roger Merriman

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> Why would
>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>
>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>> them following other people.
>>
>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>
>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>
>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>
>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>
>Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>someone I’d not ridden with much.
>
>Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
>companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>
>Roger Merriman

While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
there and pretend that I do.

On 4/19/2024 9:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> Why would
>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>
>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>> them following other people.
>>
>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>
>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at
>> least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd
>> never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I
>> carried on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>
>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo,
>> riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>
>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>
> That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.

Wait - what part is my value judgment? You certainly can't be
disagreeing with "some folks are much more limited"!

> Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with whomsoever
> he pleases. Or with no one.

Of course he is. I made no commandments.

> I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35 years ago and
> don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,  at all.

And I agree, that's (apparently) fine for you. Some folks like group
rides, some don't. (For me, it depends on the group members.)

But at the same time, you don't denigrate those who do choose to
converse with others, or who choose to help others' riding in various
ways - by showing them nice routes they might never discover, by helping
them with mechanical problems, by giving riding tips to newbies, etc.

I'm also willing to bet that you occasionally give some minor greeting
to a stranger who greets you. At least, you don't brag about ignoring
people who say hello. And (gosh!) you've actually posted photos of you
riding with others! I certainly don't recall you insulting those who
ride with friends.

And about my "limited" comment: Everyone has limitations. I have several
friends with capability limitations, including one who restricts his
cycling almost entirely to paths, because of a combination of low power
and nervousness. But he'd never say his bicycling life is as good as
mine. He recognizes his limitations are detriments.

Similarly, what if we were to compare your mechanical skills with those
of some newbie mechanic who could install a water bottle cage, but
couldn't adjust a derailleur or install a crankset?

Sure, one can use work-arounds (take it to the bike shop; or haul your
bike to a nice safe path-to-nowhere). But lesser capabilities are
detriments. That's fact.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/20/2024 8:09 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>> them following other people.
>>>
>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>
>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>
>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>
>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>> someone I’d not ridden with much.
>>
>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
> there and pretend that I do.

I'll note two points:

1) Yet here you are, discussing tons of issues that don't affect you.

2) There seems to be very little in life that doesn't annoy you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/20/2024 7:12 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> Why would
>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>
>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>> them following other people.
>>
>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>
>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>
>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>
>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>
> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
> someone I’d not ridden with much.
>
> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>
> Roger Merriman

The vast majority of my riding is solo, but that's just due to timing of
group rides in my area. I'm generally not a fan of 'social' rides. I
prefer rides where the intent is to challenge each other. The team I
rode for in the 90's to early 2000's used to have a group ride midweek
in the evenings - a very spirited race-training ride with designated
sprint points along the way. At it's peak we would have 30 riders and
broke the group up into the hard core riders and people out for an
easier ride. There was certainly a lot of banter during the regrouping
sections, but once the "action" started it was all business...Pacelines,
attacks, even team tactics where we would form into squads to compete
against each other. Good times....:)

There are a couple of those types of rides in my area, but it doesn't
fit my work schedule to make it there without breaking numerous traffic
laws. The last mid-week road race ride in my area didn't reform after
Covid, but it was fun while it lasted.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2597327499

Don't let the average speed fool you, that includes easy pace to/from
the circuit.

More recently I've found a few MTB groups that like to push the
envelope, 'weekend warrior' rides.

https://www.strava.com/activities/7297696050

Rip up some single track, wait at the next fork, lather, rinse, repeat.
Some banter during the rests while deciding which trail to ride next,
but once rolling it's "shut up and ride".

Burgers and beer after.

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>> them following other people.
>>>
>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>
>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>
>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>
>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>> someone I’d not ridden with much.
>>
>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
> there and pretend that I do.
>
Fine that’s well a choice, ie clubs aren’t for everyone and clubs differ
with their focus some have a more performance focus others more social and
so on, plus some club rides are essentially chain gangs, no chatting
likely! Compared to social/cafe types that will be very much so.

And anything in between.

It’s not even a binary choice.

Roger Merriman

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:28:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/19/2024 9:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/19/2024 6:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>> them following other people.
>>>
>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>
>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at
>>> least 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd
>>> never ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I
>>> carried on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo,
>>> riding fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>
>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>
>> That's your value judgement on a matter of personal taste.
>
>Wait - what part is my value judgment? You certainly can't be
>disagreeing with "some folks are much more limited"!
>
>> Meanwhile Mr Tricycle is free to ride wherever he likes with whomsoever
>> he pleases. Or with no one.
>
>Of course he is. I made no commandments.
>
>> I'm maybe less a misanthrope, but I quit 'group rides' 35 years ago and
>> don't miss them, or that sort of conversation,  at all.
>
>And I agree, that's (apparently) fine for you. Some folks like group
>rides, some don't. (For me, it depends on the group members.)

Me too. I prefer people who don't try to tell me what to do or
complain if I don't ride according to their plans and requirements.
Well, gosh, I guess that eliminates all group rides.

>But at the same time, you don't denigrate those who do choose to
>converse with others, or who choose to help others' riding in various
>ways - by showing them nice routes they might never discover, by helping
>them with mechanical problems, by giving riding tips to newbies, etc.
>
>I'm also willing to bet that you occasionally give some minor greeting
>to a stranger who greets you. At least, you don't brag about ignoring
>people who say hello. And (gosh!) you've actually posted photos of you
>riding with others! I certainly don't recall you insulting those who
>ride with friends.

Explaining that I don't understand why some people like to ride in
groups is not an insult.

>And about my "limited" comment: Everyone has limitations. I have several
>friends with capability limitations, including one who restricts his
>cycling almost entirely to paths, because of a combination of low power
>and nervousness. But he'd never say his bicycling life is as good as
>mine. He recognizes his limitations are detriments.

Imaginary friends are easy to understand.

>Similarly, what if we were to compare your mechanical skills with those
>of some newbie mechanic who could install a water bottle cage, but
>couldn't adjust a derailleur or install a crankset?

<EYEROLL> Comparing Mr Muzi's mechanical skill to somebody who can't
adjust a derailleur is not at all similar to comparing your bicycling
skills to millions of people who also know how to ride.

>Sure, one can use work-arounds (take it to the bike shop; or haul your
>bike to a nice safe path-to-nowhere). But lesser capabilities are
>detriments. That's fact.

Not doing something that one could do if they wanted to do it doesn't
seem like much a detriment.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:39:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/20/2024 8:09 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>>> them following other people.
>>>>
>>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>>
>>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>>
>>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>>
>>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>>> someone I’d not ridden with much.
>>>
>>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
>>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
>> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
>> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
>> there and pretend that I do.
>
>I'll note two points:
>
>1) Yet here you are, discussing tons of issues that don't affect you.

Indeed, sometimes I'm happy to discuss issues that don't affect me. I
never claimed otherwise.

>2) There seems to be very little in life that doesn't annoy you.

It's pretty much only nasty people like you who insist that you're
qualified to tell others what to do who annoy me. Junior Carrington,
who insults me regularly doesn't even annoy me. He's kind of fun to
exchange insults with.

I really enjoy my bike rides and working on my bike. I love to write.
I like to cook and bake, I love being with my family and especially
watching my grandson play baseball, My wife is a constant source of
joy. There's been much joy in my life and I look forward to more.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:41:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>>> them following other people.
>>>>
>>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>>
>>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>>
>>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>>
>>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>>> someone I?d not ridden with much.
>>>
>>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I?m generally more technical than my riding
>>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
>> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
>> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
>> there and pretend that I do.
>>
>Fine that’s well a choice, ie clubs aren’t for everyone and clubs differ
>with their focus some have a more performance focus others more social and
>so on, plus some club rides are essentially chain gangs, no chatting
>likely! Compared to social/cafe types that will be very much so.
>
>And anything in between.
>
>It’s not even a binary choice.
>
>Roger Merriman

Deeply introverted people like me don't really have a choice.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/introversion

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:41:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>>>> them following other people.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>>>
>>>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>>>
>>>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>>>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>>>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>>>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>>>> someone I?d not ridden with much.
>>>>
>>>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I?m generally more technical than my riding
>>>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
>>> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
>>> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
>>> there and pretend that I do.
>>>
>> Fine that’s well a choice, ie clubs aren’t for everyone and clubs differ
>> with their focus some have a more performance focus others more social and
>> so on, plus some club rides are essentially chain gangs, no chatting
>> likely! Compared to social/cafe types that will be very much so.
>>
>> And anything in between.
>>
>> It’s not even a binary choice.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> Deeply introverted people like me don't really have a choice.
>
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/introversion
>

There is no one saying you must be in a club, which favours roadies anyway,
are MTB and other clubs but it fits better with road cycling. Hence I’m a
member of a road club.

And depends on the person as well, for some having the support of the club
ie someone to navigate or help with mechanicals etc.

Roger Merriman

On 4/20/2024 1:33 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:41:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>>>>> them following other people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>>>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>>>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>>>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>>>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>>>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>>>>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>>>>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>>>>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>>>>> someone I?d not ridden with much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I?m generally more technical than my riding
>>>>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
>>>> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
>>>> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
>>>> there and pretend that I do.
>>>>
>>> Fine that’s well a choice, ie clubs aren’t for everyone and clubs differ
>>> with their focus some have a more performance focus others more social and
>>> so on, plus some club rides are essentially chain gangs, no chatting
>>> likely! Compared to social/cafe types that will be very much so.
>>>
>>> And anything in between.
>>>
>>> It’s not even a binary choice.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>>
>> Deeply introverted people like me don't really have a choice.
>>
>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/introversion
>>
>
> There is no one saying you must be in a club, which favours roadies anyway,
> are MTB and other clubs but it fits better with road cycling. Hence I’m a
> member of a road club.
>
> And depends on the person as well, for some having the support of the club
> ie someone to navigate or help with mechanicals etc.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

floriduh dumbass continues to confuse sociopathy with introversion.
Lack of empathy is a characteristic of anti-social personality disorder,
not of introversion.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:29:43 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/20/2024 1:33 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:41:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:12:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>>>>>> them following other people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>>>>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>>>>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>>>>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>>>>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>>>>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>>>>>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>>>>>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>>>>>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>>>>>> someone I?d not ridden with much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I?m generally more technical than my riding
>>>>>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> While other people apparently enjoy small talk sessions, they tend to
>>>>> annoy me because I don't want to come right out tell people that I
>>>>> don't care how their brother-in-law broke his leg, so I have to sit
>>>>> there and pretend that I do.
>>>>>
>>>> Fine that?s well a choice, ie clubs aren?t for everyone and clubs differ
>>>> with their focus some have a more performance focus others more social and
>>>> so on, plus some club rides are essentially chain gangs, no chatting
>>>> likely! Compared to social/cafe types that will be very much so.
>>>>
>>>> And anything in between.
>>>>
>>>> It?s not even a binary choice.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>>
>>> Deeply introverted people like me don't really have a choice.
>>>
>>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/introversion
>>>
>>
>> There is no one saying you must be in a club, which favours roadies anyway,
>> are MTB and other clubs but it fits better with road cycling. Hence I’m a
>> member of a road club.
>>
>> And depends on the person as well, for some having the support of the club
>> ie someone to navigate or help with mechanicals etc.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> floriduh dumbass continues to confuse sociopathy with introversion.
>Lack of empathy is a characteristic of anti-social personality disorder,
>not of introversion.

I am always empathetic to Junior's ignorance.

zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/20/2024 7:12 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:54:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/19/2024 1:15 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> Why would
>>>>>> anyone choose to ride under somebody else's directions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As is often quoted, for every room in heaven there's another
>>>>> just like it in hell for someone else.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody follows their own directions. Some people's directions have
>>>> them following other people.
>>>
>>> So the grumpiest person here, and the one with the most limited riding
>>> regime, thinks there's no joy or value in riding with others.
>>>
>>> On my most recent group ride, I had friendly conversation with at least
>>> 8 different people, and I was introduced to a few roads I'd never
>>> ridden, some with beautiful scenery. At the group ride's end, I carried
>>> on solo for another 16 miles or so at a higher pace.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be able to enjoy riding with others or riding solo, riding
>>> fast or riding more slowly, riding for recreation or for utility.
>>>
>>> Some folks are much more limited.
>>>
>> Indeed, I ride with a range of folks from friends from my youth to a
>> variety of different folks at the bike club. From very fit Strava segment
>> chasers to cake chatters, mostly off road though not always, such as riding
>> around London Cobbles organised by another club which was a hoot, with
>> someone I’d not ridden with much.
>>
>> Do I ride on my own absolutely! I’m generally more technical than my riding
>> companion so bigger more scary stuff I do on my own.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The vast majority of my riding is solo, but that's just due to timing of
> group rides in my area. I'm generally not a fan of 'social' rides. I
> prefer rides where the intent is to challenge each other. The team I
> rode for in the 90's to early 2000's used to have a group ride midweek
> in the evenings - a very spirited race-training ride with designated
> sprint points along the way. At it's peak we would have 30 riders and
> broke the group up into the hard core riders and people out for an
> easier ride. There was certainly a lot of banter during the regrouping
> sections, but once the "action" started it was all business...Pacelines,
> attacks, even team tactics where we would form into squads to compete
> against each other. Good times....:)
>
> There are a couple of those types of rides in my area, but it doesn't
> fit my work schedule to make it there without breaking numerous traffic
> laws. The last mid-week road race ride in my area didn't reform after
> Covid, but it was fun while it lasted.
>
> https://www.strava.com/activities/2597327499
>
> Don't let the average speed fool you, that includes easy pace to/from
> the circuit.

I’d be liability on such a ride, my ability to track where folks are is
impaired due to brain injury, I do occasionally gate crash folks post ride
refreshments at the pub, who do similar with a night gravel loop with or
without company.
>
> More recently I've found a few MTB groups that like to push the
> envelope, 'weekend warrior' rides.
>
> https://www.strava.com/activities/7297696050
>
> Rip up some single track, wait at the next fork, lather, rinse, repeat.
> Some banter during the rests while deciding which trail to ride next,
> but once rolling it's "shut up and ride".
>
> Burgers and beer after.
>
>

Off road tends to favour smaller groups and that sort of stop start riding
ie push it on the technical bits, chat on the smooth or stop to regroup and
so on.

Roger Merriman