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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Ehrenfest paradox

SubjectAuthor
* Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
+* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxJ. J. Lodder
|+* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
|| `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  | `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |   +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |   `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |    `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |     `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |      `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |       `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |        `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |         `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          | `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |   +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |   |`- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxGus Bähr Schultheiß
||  |          |   `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |    +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |    `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPython
||  |          |     +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |     `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |      +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |      |+- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |      |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRoss Finlayson
||  |          |      | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRoss Finlayson
||  |          |      `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       |+* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPython
||  |          |       ||+- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       ||`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       || +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxReid Chu Foong
||  |          |       || +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       || |+- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       || |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       || | +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       || | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRoss Finlayson
||  |          |       || `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||  +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxBarbaro Bertrand Jacqueline
||  |          |       ||  |+* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||  ||`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPhysfitfreak
||  |          |       ||  || `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRaydel Walentowicz Dubanowski
||  |          |       ||  ||  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPhysfitfreak
||  |          |       ||  ||   `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxTrejo Metrofanis Demarchis
||  |          |       ||  |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPhysfitfreak
||  |          |       ||  | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLeighton Accorso Passerini
||  |          |       ||  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||   +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||   |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||   | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||   `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||    `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||     `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||      `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxAthel Cornish-Bowden
||  |          |       ||       +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||       |+- Re: Einstein's Relativity contains a HUGE Loophole. Its Implications Can't Be IPNA
||  |          |       ||       |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||       | +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       ||       | +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxAthel Cornish-Bowden
||  |          |       ||       | |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||       | | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||       | `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||       |  +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||       |  |+- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       ||       |  |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||       |  | +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPaul B. Andersen
||  |          |       ||       |  | +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||       |  | `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||       |  |  +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciejWozniak
||  |          |       ||       |  |  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||       |  |   +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPaul B. Andersen
||  |          |       ||       |  |   |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       ||       |  |   | +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLaurence Clark Crossen
||  |          |       ||       |  |   | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||       |  |   +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRichard Hachel
||  |          |       ||       |  |   +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||       |  |   `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxGyörgy Csordás
||  |          |       ||       |  `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||       +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLaurence Clark Crossen
||  |          |       ||       `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||        +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxAthel Cornish-Bowden
||  |          |       ||        `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxAthel Cornish-Bowden
||  |          |       ||         +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxMaciej Wozniak
||  |          |       ||         +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLaurence Clark Crossen
||  |          |       ||         `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||          +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxAthel Cornish-Bowden
||  |          |       ||          +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRyker De santigo Duarte Ramires
||  |          |       ||          `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||           +* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLeonel Gorsky Murtazaliev
||  |          |       ||           |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxPhysfitfreak
||  |          |       ||           | `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxTudor Belo Ramirez
||  |          |       ||           `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||            `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       ||             `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       ||              +- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxGirard Balabuev - Pharmacologist
||  |          |       ||              `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxThomas Heger
||  |          |       |`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxVolney
||  |          |       `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLevon Havroshin Babenkov
||  |          `- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxJ. J. Lodder
||  `* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxJ. J. Lodder
|+- Re: Ehrenfest paradoxRoss Finlayson
|`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxJanPB
+* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxwugi
`* Re: Ehrenfest paradoxLaurence Clark Crossen

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Re: Ehrenfest paradox

<Il8StCLByo-EtQtXYJbadmmIRoY@jntp>

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From: pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr (Richard Hachel)
 by: Richard Hachel - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 15:02 UTC

Le 22/02/2024 à 08:36, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>
> Sure it was, since Einstein was made kind of 'pop star of physics'.
>
> This required coordinated efforts of large parts of the mainstream media
> of that time.
>
> But his fame was NOT caused by his paper(-s), because almost nobody had
> read them and those who did had critisised them.
>
> This fact alone would be sufficiant to raise eyebrows and be sceptical
> about the narrative.
>
> But it went far further than simple fame and presence in the media.
>
> Einstein's face was printed on stamps, posters and money. TV-shows,
> schools and kindergardens were named after him.
>
> So, Einstein was efficiently 'deified'.
>
> But still nobody read his papers.
>
> This was actually unnecessary, because popular versions of his theories
> were writen and printed into tons of very nice books with pritty
> pictures for TV-shows, schools and kindergardens.
>
> So, nobody needed to read his papers, let alone criticise them.

This is absolutely correct.

R.H.

Re: Ehrenfest paradox

<ur7r2h$3uul9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: volney@invalid.invalid (Volney)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Ehrenfest paradox
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 11:00:13 -0500
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 by: Volney - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 16:00 UTC

On 2/22/2024 2:41 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 21.02.2024 um 23:53 schrieb Volney:
>
>>>>> Physicists will immediately behave like religious fundamentalists and
>>>>> how many times have I heard: “If our prophet was wrong, we would know
>>>>> it”.
>>>>
>>>> Which "physicist" even uses the word "prophet"? None?
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that, with the theory wonderfully tinged with bullshit
>>>>> plastering, even the world's greatest physicists are getting caught.
>>>>
>>>> Where?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wanting to explain where the errors are then becomes an insurmountable
>>>>> task.
>>
>>>> What errors?
>>>
>>> Einstein's 1905 paper is FULL of errors (I have counted 428 errors).
>>
>> Now you are back to 'finding errors' in Einstein's paper and not the
>> translation?
>>>
>>> The number is so extremely large and the type of errors range from
>>> serious to stupid, that I would not believe for a second, that Max
>>> Planck took it for real.
>>
>> No, the number is zero errors, and you ignored my request to post the
>> most obvious, egregious, stupidest error in that paper, in order to show
>> you actually found one valid error.
>>>
>>> I personally think, this particular paper and the subsequent
>>> 'deification' of Einstein were part of a plot.
>>
>> Since there was no 'deification' of Einstein and no errors, there's
>> obviously no plot. And since you now claim 'deification' of Einstein,
>> you now are back to your higher rating on the crackpot scale, instead of
>> merely calling him a 'prophet'.
>
>
> Sure it was, since Einstein was made kind of 'pop star of physics'.
>
> This required coordinated efforts of large parts of the mainstream media
> of that time.
>
> But his fame was NOT caused by his paper(-s), because almost nobody had
> read them and those who did had critisised them.
>
> This fact alone would be sufficiant to raise eyebrows and be sceptical
> about the narrative.
>
> But it went far further than simple fame and presence in the media.
>
> Einstein's face was printed on stamps, posters and money. TV-shows,
> schools and kindergardens were named after him.
>
> So, Einstein was efficiently 'deified'.
>
> But still nobody read his papers.
>
> This was actually unnecessary, because popular versions of his theories
> were writen and printed into tons of very nice books with pritty
> pictures for TV-shows, schools and kindergardens.

All that is the MEDIA making Einstein into a celebrity. Nothing to do
with scientists 'worshiping' him. The media make into celebrities many
people who happened to be born into, or married into, the right
families, or acted well in a few movies etc. Einstein was relatively
obscure until the 1919 eclipse observations validated GR. But to
scientists he was just another scientist (although a good one) and
hardly deify him.
>
> So, nobody needed to read his papers, let alone criticise them.

No, reading his papers is how he became known in the first place. Being
controversial, EVERYONE tried to read and criticize the papers. None
have found more than trivial faults.

You ignored the fact there were no errors in the SR paper and you found
none by diverting to whining that the media glorified Einstein.
>
>>> This plot was apparently meant to derail physics in general and bring
>>> members of a certain hidden 'club' into a better position within the
>>> competion for fame and money in the scientific community.
>>>
>>> So, it will be by no means allowed to criticise this paper (or the
>>> author) for all physicists, who want stay in office or profession.
>>
>> Plot? 'Hidden club'? Not allowed to criticize the paper?
>
> Well, yes, sounds like that.

Nope. Paranoia created conspiracy theories. Anyone who actually found a
real flaw in the relativity papers would be almost guaranteed a Nobel
Prize which is the holy grail to so many scientists. But scientists know
there in no grail in the relativity papers.
>
> But, unfortunately, if have not found out, who is actually behind this
> plot.
>
More paranoia created conspiracy theories.

Re: Ehrenfest paradox

<ur7r97$2egkq$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: el@eeq.hu (György Csordás)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Ehrenfest paradox
Followup-To: sci.physics.relativity
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 by: György Csordás - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 16:03 UTC

Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 21.02.2024 um 23:53 schrieb Volney:
>>> So, it will be by no means allowed to criticise this paper (or the
>>> author) for all physicists, who want stay in office or profession.
>>
>> Plot? 'Hidden club'? Not allowed to criticize the paper?
>
> Well, yes, sounds like that. But, unfortunately, if have not found out,
> who is actually behind this plot.

𝗻𝗼𝘁, seriously. You must be born yesterday. You don't know the shit is
going on right now, as we speak. You must be a gearmon, because over there
it's forbidden to know. It's forbidden to know what is going on in the
fucking gearmony.

𝗚𝗶𝘃𝗲_𝘂𝘀_𝗮𝗹𝗹_𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿_𝗵𝗲𝗮𝘃𝘆_𝘄𝗲𝗮𝗽𝗼𝗻𝘀,_𝗞𝗶𝗲𝘃’𝘀_𝘀𝗲𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗶𝘁𝘆_𝗰𝗵𝗶𝗲𝗳_𝘁𝗲𝗹𝗹𝘀_𝗘𝗨
With enough tanks and guns, the Ukrainian army can “destroy” Russia,
Aleksey Danilov has claimed
https://r%74.com/russia/592943-danilov-eu-heavy-weapons/

"Give us all your gold too", said the Ukrainian. 🤣

and give us more mercenaries...

Demented. Berlin bunker 1945.

This eccentric idiocy chief has taken the EU as the idiots they really
are.

Imagine being this stupid to make this statement and imagine even greater
level of stupidity by the Western politicians who believe this.

Re: Ehrenfest paradox

<l3tlpjF82f6U1@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=130907&group=sci.physics.relativity#130907

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From: ttt_heg@web.de (Thomas Heger)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Ehrenfest paradox
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 09:01:23 +0100
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 by: Thomas Heger - Sat, 24 Feb 2024 08:01 UTC

Am 22.02.2024 um 12:16 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> On Thursday 22 February 2024 at 11:24:23 UTC+1, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> Den 22.02.2024 08:41, skrev Thomas Heger:
>>>
>>> Einstein was made kind of 'pop star of physics'.
>>>
>>> This required coordinated efforts of large parts of the mainstream media
>>> of that time.
>>>
>>> But his fame was NOT caused by his paper(-s), because almost nobody had
>>> read them and those who did had critisised them.
>>>
>>> This fact alone would be sufficiant to raise eyebrows and be sceptical
>>> about the narrative.
>>>
>>> But it went far further than simple fame and presence in the media.
>>>
>>> Einstein's face was printed on stamps, posters and money. TV-shows,
>>> schools and kindergardens were named after him.
>>>
>>> So, Einstein was efficiently 'deified'.
>>>
>>> But still nobody read his papers.
>>>
>>> This was actually unnecessary, because popular versions of his theories
>>> were writen and printed into tons of very nice books with pritty
>>> pictures for TV-shows, schools and kindergardens.
>> Good catch!
>>
>> The children in the kindergartens are brainwashed
>> with popular books about relativity.
>> What a shame!
>
> Right, poor fanatic halfbrain. A shame. Though The
> Shit is rather starting its job in the middle of primary
> school.
>

It's actually true, that books about relativity exist, which are meant
to be read by kids in school.

My own experience with SRT started actually in school.

They had a system in German schools (long ago), when I was in the 8th
class (roughly 14 years old).

The best students in the class could choose a book and I was second best.

My selection was 'Knauers Buch der moderenen Physik' (knauers' book of
modern physics), which was a popular book about modern physics for kids.

This book contained a part about SRT and that was the first time I heard
about it.

Kindergardens usually do not cover SRT (or quantum mechenics), but I'm
actually not certain, whether or not this is true for all kindergardens.

TH

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