On 2024-03-08 16:06, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 12:26:01 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/24 11:40, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>
>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Already in development!
>>>
>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>
>> Hmm, This comes across as an attempt to seduce investors and
>> greenies. Not much substance there.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> It's inherent that nearly all useful industries were and are funded by
> private investment. And I wouldn't expect RR to post their detailed
> reactor drawings online.
>
> You can elect to not invest.
>

All?

Not so, many were funded by governments one way or another.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>
>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>> the dark.
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>
>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>
>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>> years.
>>
>> Already in development!
>>
>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>
> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
> of radiation.

Gosh, it is a very rational fear.

>
> Nukes work fine in France. Actually, they work fine most everywhere
> else.
>
> SMRs sound cool, but need to be hardened against greenie saboteurs.
>
> They should be supported by a good fuel recycling/disposal
> infrastructure, which, again, is not really a technical problem.
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:55:17 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-03-08 16:06, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 12:26:01 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/24 11:40, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>
>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Already in development!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>
>>> Hmm, This comes across as an attempt to seduce investors and
>>> greenies. Not much substance there.
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> It's inherent that nearly all useful industries were and are funded by
>> private investment. And I wouldn't expect RR to post their detailed
>> reactor drawings online.
>>
>> You can elect to not invest.
>>
>
>All?
>
>Not so, many were funded by governments one way or another.

Governments usually waste public money, and pour more in when things
go wrong.

Funding research is good. Funding industries is usually boondoogles;
let the market invest and pick the winners.

The best thing government can do for industry is to do less. Less
regulation, less taxation, less support for unions. Business is mobile
via various mechanisms, easy to chase away.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>
>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Already in development!
>>>
>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>
>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>> of radiation.
>
>Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>
>

Stay away from mountains and airplanes and your own cellar. Don't ever
eat bananas or potatoes.

On 2024-03-08 21:06, john larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>
>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Already in development!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>
>>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>>> of radiation.
>>
>> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>>
>>
>
> Stay away from mountains and airplanes and your own cellar. Don't ever
> eat bananas or potatoes.
>
>

I don't. I love flying and mountains. Not a problem. I also eat potatoes
frequently.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 23:17:19 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-03-08 21:06, john larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Already in development!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>>
>>>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>>>> of radiation.
>>>
>>> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Stay away from mountains and airplanes and your own cellar. Don't ever
>> eat bananas or potatoes.
>>
>>
>
>I don't. I love flying and mountains. Not a problem. I also eat potatoes
>frequently.

The number of cancers caused by non-Russian reactors is about zero.

Coal power plants emit maybe 10x the radiation per KWH compared to
nukes. Plus a lot of other nasty stuff.

What's shocking is that cigarettes are legal. They kill about half a
million peope in the US every year. A deal was cut to keep them legal,
with the states and feds getting a lot of tax revenue to kill people.

On 3/7/24 7:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>
> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
> the dark.
>
> Bitcoin mining is insane. AI, probably, too.
>

Like the scouts say, be prepared. For me that means a wood stove for
heating, a generator, a LiFePO4 battery, a solar panel for that, and a
swamp cooler that runs on very little power. Plus lots of rechargeable
lights with exchangeable 19650 cells.

Oh, and ham radio. When the power goes the cell service usually knocks
off 15-200mins later. Landlines drop immediately due to that wonderful
VoIP stuff. That's when I hope neighbors will remember the house with
the strange antennas in case someone has a heart attack, a stroke, a
fire or something else that requires help.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 15:32:47 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 3/7/24 7:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>
>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>> the dark.
>>
>> Bitcoin mining is insane. AI, probably, too.
>>
>
>Like the scouts say, be prepared. For me that means a wood stove for
>heating, a generator, a LiFePO4 battery, a solar panel for that, and a
>swamp cooler that runs on very little power. Plus lots of rechargeable
>lights with exchangeable 19650 cells.
>
>Oh, and ham radio. When the power goes the cell service usually knocks
>off 15-200mins later. Landlines drop immediately due to that wonderful
>VoIP stuff. That's when I hope neighbors will remember the house with
>the strange antennas in case someone has a heart attack, a stroke, a
>fire or something else that requires help.

Indeed. A shortwave radio may be the only means of exchanging
information over long distances when TSHTF.

On 9/03/2024 2:06 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 12:26:01 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/24 11:40, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>
>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Already in development!
>>>
>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>
>> Hmm, This comes across as an attempt to seduce investors and
>> greenies. Not much substance there.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> It's inherent that nearly all useful industries were and are funded by
> private investment. And I wouldn't expect RR to post their detailed
> reactor drawings online.
>
> You can elect to not invest.

It would probably be a wise choice.

if there were real money to be made, somebody would have got in early.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 9/03/2024 6:53 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:55:17 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-08 16:06, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 12:26:01 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 11:40, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Already in development!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, This comes across as an attempt to seduce investors and
>>>> greenies. Not much substance there.
>>>>
>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>
>>> It's inherent that nearly all useful industries were and are funded by
>>> private investment. And I wouldn't expect RR to post their detailed
>>> reactor drawings online.
>>>
>>> You can elect to not invest.
>>>
>>
>> All?
>>
>> Not so, many were funded by governments one way or another.
>
> Governments usually waste public money, and pour more in when things
> go wrong.

It happens, but it isn't usual.

> Funding research is good. Funding industries is usually boondoogles;
> let the market invest and pick the winners.

Until there's a product to sell, the market doesn't have anything to buy.

> The best thing government can do for industry is to do less. Less
> regulation, less taxation, less support for unions. Business is mobile
> via various mechanisms, easy to chase away.

John Larkin is a gullible sucker for propaganda spread by very rich
Americans.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

The book is written by the same authors who wrote "Merchants of Doubt".
Business likes to have a monopoly on investing in new and profitable
ideas. People who are investing primarily to make their voters happier
can cut the profit margins of people who are investing purely to make money.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 9/03/2024 2:01 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>
>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>> the dark.
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>
>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>
>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>> years.
>>
>> Already in development!
>>
>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>
> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
> of radiation.
>
> Nukes work fine in France. Actually, they work fine most everywhere
> else.

But nobody has found a good long term solution for storing nuclear waste
for the 100,000 odd years it takes before it stops being dangerous
>
> SMRs sound cool, but need to be hardened against greenie saboteurs.

Non-existent greenie saboteurs. We've had nuclear reactors since the
late 1940's but no greenie has ever sabotaged one, or shown any desire
to do so.

> They should be supported by a good fuel recycling/disposal
> infrastructure, which, again, is not really a technical problem.

We've had 70 years to solve that particular problem, and nobody has yet
come up with a solution that they can sell to the public. The technical
problems may not be insoluble, but solutions that have been found so far
don't seem to be socially acceptable.

And why should they be? Nuclear power isn't cheaper that renewable power.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 9/03/2024 7:06 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>
>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Already in development!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>
>>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>>> of radiation.
>>
>> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>
> Stay away from mountains and airplanes and your own cellar. Don't ever
> eat bananas or potatoes.

Nuclear waste is a lot more radioactive than bananas and potatoes.
If you've got radon in your cellar, you should put a fan to move it out.

https://www.epa.gov/radon/health-risk-radon

Smoking causes about 160,000 lung cancer deaths a year in the US. but
radon cause about 21,000 - it's worth worrying about.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 9/03/2024 9:56 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 23:17:19 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-08 21:06, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Already in development!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>>>
>>>>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>>>>> of radiation.
>>>>
>>>> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Stay away from mountains and airplanes and your own cellar. Don't ever
>>> eat bananas or potatoes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't. I love flying and mountains. Not a problem. I also eat potatoes
>> frequently.
>
> The number of cancers caused by non-Russian reactors is about zero.
>
> Coal power plants emit maybe 10x the radiation per KWH compared to
> nukes. Plus a lot of other nasty stuff.

Wind turbines and solar cells are a lot less dangerous.

> What's shocking is that cigarettes are legal. They kill about half a
> million peope in the US every year. A deal was cut to keep them legal,
> with the states and feds getting a lot of tax revenue to kill people.

America tried prohibition of ethanol in the great experiment. It didn't
work, any more than the war on drugs has. Taxing tobacco heavily has set
up a lively trade in smuggling the stuff, but the tax rate can be
adjusted to make smuggling less profitable, so it doesn't kill all that
many extra people.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 9/03/2024 1:48 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 06:40:12 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>
>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>> the dark.
>>
>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>
> Pick a region and tell the locals that they can have a reactor or no
> electricity. Let them vote.

The Dutch are pretty technically literate. Roof-top solar is pretty
popular there, and Dutch have been into windmills for a very long time -
there were plenty of wind turbines around when I lived there.

They'd know that they could get cheaper electricity in smaller chunks.

> Near the ocean would be good for cooling.

It's hard to get all that far from the ocean anywhere in the
Netherlands. Putting pipes through the dikes to circulate cooling sea
water wouldn't be difficult, and the return flow would probably be
circulated through industrial scale green-houses to exploit the low
level heat.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Fri, 08 Mar 2024 08:13:42 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <n2emui9ms7puul8i5k829l4batsd0bb08r@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 16:01:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 08 Mar 2024 07:09:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ebamui94of6duifghmb6jnen11060l4dlv@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 13:15:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>>>><jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <usela5$1jtre$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>>On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>
>>>>>These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>>design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>>small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>>Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>>where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>>years.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, Russia has a ship with a nuclear power plant that powers some city somewhere,
>>>>no risk of flooding then :-)
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_floating_nuclear_power_station
>>>>OTOH ever more power is needed, so a big nuclear power plant makes sense.
>>>
>>>Why not lots of smaller ones? They could be phased in incrementally,
>>>quickly, where and when needed.
>>>
>>>The politics are good. Do you want electricity? Find us a few acres
>>>for an SMR.
>>
>>The more the harder security is.
>>Some idiots a few days ago did set fire to a HV mast in Germany to prevent Tesla from expanding there.
>>It also cut power to some other large company and caused shortages.
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/business/tesla-germany-factory-fire.html
>>
>>It would be cool if they got small fusion reactors working.
>>One for in each car?
>
>So far, fusion doesn't look like it will work in anything smaller than
>a star.

I am not sure, I have written here many times:
"If you cannot do it with those tiny particles on the desktop,
then you cannot do it with a machine the size of the universe"
Example, look up Farnsworth fusor:
https://www.tue.nl/faculteit-technische-natuurkunde/onderzoek/onderzoeksgroepen/science-and-technology-of-nuclear-fusion-fusion/fusion-facilities/fusor

build one yourself:
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Build-a-Fusion-Reactor-and-Become-Part-of-t/

Highschool kids have done it too.
Fusion is not the problem, it is the break-even that needs to be improved
factor 10^6 too low for that Farnsworth fusor IIRC.
But who knows, I do see opportunities here to increase it
many have worked on that, I wanted to build one but its low efficiency, radiation, lack of space I have, kept me.

>Cars work fine on gasoline, or almost even on batteries. It doesn't
>make sense for a 100lb person to move 3 tons of steel with them to the
>drugstore, but market forces will fix that.

Yes..

On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100) it happened "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <gk3sbkx527.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

>On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>
>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Already in development!
>>>
>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>
>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>> of radiation.
>
>Gosh, it is a very rational fear.

Yes and no, wildlife around Chernobyl is flourishing
mainly because there are no people there to kill it, all evacuated.
The body has a DNA correction mechanism.
If you look at he amount of people killed by nuclear accidents (bombs apart)
maybe a few hundred, to the thousands killed each year in coal mining,
by air pollution, etc, nuclear is very safe.
A nuclear power plant accident may cause some areas to be evacuated for while.
But earth is big, times moves, radioactive elements decay.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki: people are living there again these days after it got nuked:
japantimes.co.jp/2023/01/14/special-supplements/hiroshimas-rebound-atomic-bomb-prosperous-regional-hub/

On 3/8/24 19:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John
>>>>> Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in
>>>>> <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new
>>>>> nuclear power plants.
>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>
>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Already in development!
>>>
>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>
>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>> of radiation.
>
> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.

No it isn't. The general public has no idea of the real level of
danger. They're just afraid of the unknown. The real problem is
information and education. That, and the various groups of scare-
mongers that prey on the ignorant masses.

Natural radiation is everywhere. We all get ballpark 10uSv a day,
no matter what. Except in a few cases, the contribution of the global
nuclear industry to that is *very* small. Some medical procedures
can subject you to several *years* worth of extra dose in an instant,
yet hardly anybody seems to worry about that.

Having spent my career at a physics research lab, I myself was
classed as a 'nuclear worker', regularly working in radioactive
areas and with activated materials. Even so, the average additional
dose I got was still much less than 1% of the natural dose.

Jeroen Belleman

Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> On 3/7/24 7:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> > https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-
> > is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
> >
> > Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
> > the dark.
> >
> > Bitcoin mining is insane. AI, probably, too.
> >
>
> Like the scouts say, be prepared. For me that means a wood stove for
> heating, a generator, a LiFePO4 battery, a solar panel for that, and a
> swamp cooler that runs on very little power. Plus lots of rechargeable
> lights with exchangeable 19650 cells.
>
> Oh, and ham radio. When the power goes the cell service usually knocks
> off 15-200mins later. Landlines drop immediately due to that wonderful
> VoIP stuff. That's when I hope neighbors will remember the house with
> the strange antennas in case someone has a heart attack, a stroke, a
> fire or something else that requires help.

Until they realise that the emergency services have lost all their
communicaitons too, so there is no one who can receive your message.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 9/03/2024 4:54 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:56:48 +0100) it happened "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <gk3sbkx527.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
>
>> On 2024-03-08 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2024 10:40:26 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:22:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/8/24 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 07 Mar 2024 07:13:56 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <h8mjui5kf50de3tkplpf1e12k12r8dgl58@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amid-explosive-demand-america-is-running-out-of-power/ar-BB1jtM69
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increasing demand and declining reliable supply could put people in
>>>>>>> the dark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was reading Netherlands gov has decided to build 4 new nuclear power plants.
>>>>>> They still have to find locations for 3, what if next doors?? ??
>>>>>
>>>>> These are planned to be the --now old-fashioned-- Westinghouse
>>>>> design? Big installations that need ten years to build?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start an industry of
>>>>> small modular reactors. Tens of megawatts rather than hundreds,
>>>>> Something that could fit on a barge, or a train, transported
>>>>> where it's needed, and up and running in months rather than
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Already in development!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
>>>
>>> It's really not a technical problem. The public has an irrational fear
>>> of radiation.
>>
>> Gosh, it is a very rational fear.
>
> Yes and no, wildlife around Chernobyl is flourishing
> mainly because there are no people there to kill it, all evacuated.

But there are a lot of mutations in the surviving wildlife.

> The body has a DNA correction mechanism.

It doesn't. Breaks in the DNA do get glommed back together again, but
there's mo guarantee that the right broken bits get tied back together

> If you look at he amount of people killed by nuclear accidents (bombs apart)
> maybe a few hundred, to the thousands killed each year in coal mining,
> by air pollution, etc, nuclear is very safe.

Mainly because we are properly careful. Coal mining got started long
before people were all that careful about avoiding accidents, and while
we've got better, lots of dangerous habits have persisted.

> A nuclear power plant accident may cause some areas to be evacuated for while.
> But earth is big, times moves, radioactive elements decay.

Over up to about 100,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission_product

> Hiroshima and Nagasaki: people are living there again these days after it got nuked:
> japantimes.co.jp/2023/01/14/special-supplements/hiroshimas-rebound-atomic-bomb-prosperous-regional-hub/

They got blasted by an air-burst. Lots of radiation from bomb blast, but
the fission products got widely spread by the blast.

Drop a nuclear weapon on a nuclear reactor and you could make a country
the size of Belgium or the Netherlands uninhabitable for generations.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney