Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/

bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>
>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?

That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.

Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.

Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
would be bad too.

On 13/03/2024 8:18 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>
>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>
> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>
> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.

Staying on Earth just because we evolved here would be even more absurd.

> Traveling to or living on Mars would be lethal. Living on the moon
> would be bad too.

Travelling to Mars might be dangerous. but living there would be fine,
once we'd engineered a safe environment for people to live.

We might well be able to engineer people who could live there safely -
evolution has yet to come up with an error-detecting genetic code that
lends itself to error correction. but intelligent design could do better.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:

>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>
>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>
>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.

Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.

>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>
>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>would be bad too.

Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
use its material for power water and shelter
and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>
>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>
>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>
>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>
>
>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>
>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>would be bad too.
>
>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>use its material for power water and shelter
>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua

You go first.

On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>
>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>
>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>
>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>
>>
>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>
>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>would be bad too.
>>
>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>
>You go first.

Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
So you have to bring whole families ,
or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
and teach you when growing up near the destination.
Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
(circular reasoning).
Us being just a chemical process; it is likely everywhere where conditions allow.
The galactic background noise being the combined radio signals from all those civilizations...
We know so little, like an ant in the garden knows about the garden, the designer of the house
th roads, their purpose.
Just a few neurons in the huge universe.
OTOH everything is connected, move an electron here and in time it affects electrons everywhere.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>
>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>
>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>
>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>
>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>would be bad too.
>>>
>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>
>>You go first.
>
>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>So you have to bring whole families ,
>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>(circular reasoning).

Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
project. I give it a B-.

On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>
>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>
>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>
>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>
>>>You go first.
>>
>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>(circular reasoning).
>
>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>project. I give it a B-.

Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
on some moons and asteroids.
They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html

we are just a chemical reaction really.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>
>>>>You go first.
>>>
>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>(circular reasoning).
>>
>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>project. I give it a B-.
>
>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs

I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
attack any.

RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.

>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>on some moons and asteroids.

Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
working electronic instrument.

>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>
>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>

We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
quantum mechanics. At least I am.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>
>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>
>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>
>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>
>
>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>
>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>would be bad too.
>
>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>use its material for power water and shelter
>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua

This is

https://www.barrons.com/news/protect-earth-instead-of-colonising-mars-obama-says-1df83940

the most sensible thing I can recall Obama ever saying.

Let's feed and educate a billion kids instead of putting victims on
the moon or on Mars.

On 15/03/2024 2:13 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>> (circular reasoning).
>
> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
> to have evolved from inorganics.

John Larkin is a gullible sucker for very kind of dim propaganda - here
he is recycling a creationist trope, dealt with at length by Richard
Dawkins in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Watchmaker

> Other civiizations in the universe have probably advanced for billions of years.

It's possible, but there's a lot of universe out there.

> So it's likely that Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
> project.

It's conceivable but unlikely. Even a high school science project today
would know about error-detecting - and -correcting codes.

And life on earth seems to have started with RNA based replicators - not
DNA.

If this sort of thing had gone on, we'd have been panspermia colonised
by a better designed replicator.

In reality there are lots of different planets out there, and they
probably all need different replicators to get the ball rolling.

> I give it a B-.

John Larkin hasn't got the credentials to be allowed to mark this kind
of work.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 15/03/2024 4:38 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

> RNA World is a religious belief.

No religion endorse it.

> Concensus and faith without evidence.

None that John Larkin can understand. In fact all life depends on a
couple of RNA based enzymes, and they probably have been there from the
start. Some viruses are RNA only. DNA offers a more stable genome, but
there aren't any DNA based enzymes. John Larkin is arguing from
ignorance, and he's got a lot of ignorance to draw on.

>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>> on some moons and asteroids.
>
> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
> working electronic instrument.
>
>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>
>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>
> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
> quantum mechanics. At least I am.

Sadly. John Larkin isn't all that complicated. Push the right button and
you get the same half-baked response every time.

A better education might have provided a greater variety of responses,
but he still hasn't got a patent of his own.

--
Bil Sloman, Sydney

On 15/03/2024 5:47 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

> This is
>
> https://www.barrons.com/news/protect-earth-instead-of-colonising-mars-obama-says-1df83940
>
> the most sensible thing I can recall Obama ever saying.

John Larkin thinks that Trump has "commons sense". He probably couldn't
process Obama's better ideas.

> Let's feed and educate a billion kids instead of putting victims on
> the moon or on Mars.

"As well as" would be a better choice than "instead of". The two
activities aren't mutually exclusive, and you probably need to feed and
educate a lot more kids to get enough engineers to get to the point of
being able to put a colony on Mars.

In the US, at the moment, wealth is more heritable than height.

https://www.zmescience.com/research/social-mobility-inheritance-064654/

What this means in practice is that rich dumb kids are more likely to
get the benefit of a university education that the poor smart kids who
could do more with it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>
>>>>>You go first.
>>>>
>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>
>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>
>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>
>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>attack any.
>
>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>
>
>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>on some moons and asteroids.
>
>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>working electronic instrument.
>
>
>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>
>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>
>
>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>quantum mechanics. At least I am.

from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
Readup on Darwin
:-)

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You go first.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>>
>>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>>
>>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>
>>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>attack any.
>>
>>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>
>>
>>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>on some moons and asteroids.
>>
>>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>working electronic instrument.
>>
>>
>>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>
>>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>
>>
>>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>
>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>Readup on Darwin
>:-)

Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.

Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
as our origin.

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You go first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>>>
>>>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>>>
>>>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>
>>>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>attack any.
>>>
>>>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>on some moons and asteroids.
>>>
>>>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>working electronic instrument.
>>>
>>>
>>>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>
>>>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>
>>>
>>>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>
>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>Readup on Darwin
>>:-)
>
>Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>
>Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>as our origin.

Did you actually READ the
https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
link?
It is all very simple.
Life is everywhere buzzing
just like electrons around atoms

The religious leaders have various routines to keep their power and palaces,
suck your money and wash you brain and force you into obedience
Take a step back.
The rain-dances ended when rain-radar was more accurate
Our lifeform has evolved something called 'ego' to protect ourself.
We are not that more complex than that sunshade with photo sensor that has a voice added
so when the sun shines it says 'sun', I am closing, and if no sun, I am opening.
That, in short, is all consciousness is.
Never the less we are all connected, these days via radio and teefee too.
Drop the mystics

On 3/15/24 10:35, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>> would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>> use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>> and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You go first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>> but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>> So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>> or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>> and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>> (circular reasoning).
>>>>>
>>>>> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>> to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>> have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>> Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>> project. I give it a B-.
>>>>
>>>> Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>
>>> I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>> attack any.
>>>
>>> RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>> on some moons and asteroids.
>>>
>>> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>> working electronic instrument.
>>>
>>>
>>>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>
>>>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>> quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>
>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>> Readup on Darwin
>> :-)
>
> Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>
> Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
> if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
> as our origin.
>

And we are skeptical of your intelligent design stance. For that
matter, there are quite a few blunders in living beings that an
intelligent designer wouldn't have made.

Jeroen Belleman

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:42:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>
>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You go first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>
>>>>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>attack any.
>>>>
>>>>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>
>>>>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>working electronic instrument.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>
>>>>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>
>>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>Readup on Darwin
>>>:-)
>>
>>Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>
>>Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>as our origin.
>
>Did you actually READ the
> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>link?
>It is all very simple.

Too simple. It's not DNA, not cells, it's unlikely to continue
replicating outside the lab, and, being a lab experiment, is
"intelligent design." Well, moderately intelligent.

Lots of chemical reactions can be forced to replicate in the lab.

>Life is everywhere buzzing
>just like electrons around atoms
>
>The religious leaders have various routines to keep their power and palaces,
>suck your money and wash you brain and force you into obedience
>Take a step back.
>The rain-dances ended when rain-radar was more accurate
>Our lifeform has evolved something called 'ego' to protect ourself.
>We are not that more complex than that sunshade with photo sensor that has a voice added
>so when the sun shines it says 'sun', I am closing, and if no sun, I am opening.
>That, in short, is all consciousness is.
>Never the less we are all connected, these days via radio and teefee too.
>Drop the mystics
>
>

Blind faith hand-waving about random mutation and selection is mystic.
Conjecturing about an actual, unlikely but plausible, origin of life
is not.

One big problem with accounting for DNA life is that an entire class
of possible mechanisms is sneered at because considering them invokes
the fear of drifting even slightly towards religion, and we can't
allow that. You do that, mocking anything that you think might drift
in that direction. Dawkins said that he was a capital-A Atheist first,
and everything else flowed from that.

He was capital-B Boring too, as compulsive believers tend to be.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:11:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 3/15/24 10:35, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>> would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>> use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>> and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You go first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>> but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>> So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>> or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>> and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>> (circular reasoning).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>> to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>> have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>> Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>> project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>
>>>> I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>> attack any.
>>>>
>>>> RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>> on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>
>>>> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>> working electronic instrument.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>
>>>>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>> quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>
>>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>> Readup on Darwin
>>> :-)
>>
>> Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>
>> Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>> if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>> as our origin.
>>
>
>And we are skeptical of your intelligent design stance. For that
>matter, there are quite a few blunders in living beings that an
>intelligent designer wouldn't have made.

What you call my "stance" is one conjecture. I have others that you'd
approve of even less.

Our cells are extraordinary, so their creation might have been an
extraordinary process. Refuse to think about possibilities if that's
your style.

There are youtube videos about cell replication that are mind
boggling. It doesn't work until a zillion fiendshly complex things all
work, and the cell defines them for itself.

Thinking about possibilities helps electronic design too.

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:04:17 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <lun8vido07cnl5t4n7t7gl08e3sbinqpr3@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:42:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You go first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>>
>>>>>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>>attack any.
>>>>>
>>>>>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>>on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>>working electronic instrument.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>>quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>>
>>>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>>Readup on Darwin
>>>>:-)
>>>
>>>Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>>
>>>Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>>if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>>as our origin.
>>
>>Did you actually READ the
>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>link?
>>It is all very simple.
>
>Too simple. It's not DNA, not cells, it's unlikely to continue
>replicating outside the lab, and, being a lab experiment, is
>"intelligent design." Well, moderately intelligent.
>
>Lots of chemical reactions can be forced to replicate in the lab.
>
>>Life is everywhere buzzing
>>just like electrons around atoms
>>
>>The religious leaders have various routines to keep their power and palaces,
>>suck your money and wash you brain and force you into obedience
>>Take a step back.
>>The rain-dances ended when rain-radar was more accurate
>>Our lifeform has evolved something called 'ego' to protect ourself.
>>We are not that more complex than that sunshade with photo sensor that has a voice added
>>so when the sun shines it says 'sun', I am closing, and if no sun, I am opening.
>>That, in short, is all consciousness is.
>>Never the less we are all connected, these days via radio and teefee too.
>>Drop the mystics
>>
>>
>
>Blind faith hand-waving about random mutation and selection is mystic.
>Conjecturing about an actual, unlikely but plausible, origin of life
>is not.
>
>One big problem with accounting for DNA life is that an entire class
>of possible mechanisms is sneered at because considering them invokes
>the fear of drifting even slightly towards religion, and we can't
>allow that. You do that, mocking anything that you think might drift
>in that direction. Dawkins said that he was a capital-A Atheist first,
>and everything else flowed from that.
>
>He was capital-B Boring too, as compulsive believers tend to be.

Well no use educting the brain washed.
Best of luck special heap of cells.
It is not bad that 'I' do not know what you babble about., much worse is that 'you' do not know.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:52:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:04:17 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <lun8vido07cnl5t4n7t7gl08e3sbinqpr3@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:42:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>>>inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>>>would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>>>use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>>>and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You go first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>>>but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>>>So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>>>or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>>>and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>>>Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>>>(circular reasoning).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>>>to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>>>have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>>>Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>>>project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>>>attack any.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>>>Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>>>on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>>>working electronic instrument.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>>>like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>>>quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>>>
>>>>>from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>>>>from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>>>Readup on Darwin
>>>>>:-)
>>>>
>>>>Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>>>
>>>>Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>>>if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>>>as our origin.
>>>
>>>Did you actually READ the
>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>link?
>>>It is all very simple.
>>
>>Too simple. It's not DNA, not cells, it's unlikely to continue
>>replicating outside the lab, and, being a lab experiment, is
>>"intelligent design." Well, moderately intelligent.
>>
>>Lots of chemical reactions can be forced to replicate in the lab.
>>
>>>Life is everywhere buzzing
>>>just like electrons around atoms
>>>
>>>The religious leaders have various routines to keep their power and palaces,
>>>suck your money and wash you brain and force you into obedience
>>>Take a step back.
>>>The rain-dances ended when rain-radar was more accurate
>>>Our lifeform has evolved something called 'ego' to protect ourself.
>>>We are not that more complex than that sunshade with photo sensor that has a voice added
>>>so when the sun shines it says 'sun', I am closing, and if no sun, I am opening.
>>>That, in short, is all consciousness is.
>>>Never the less we are all connected, these days via radio and teefee too.
>>>Drop the mystics
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Blind faith hand-waving about random mutation and selection is mystic.
>>Conjecturing about an actual, unlikely but plausible, origin of life
>>is not.
>>
>>One big problem with accounting for DNA life is that an entire class
>>of possible mechanisms is sneered at because considering them invokes
>>the fear of drifting even slightly towards religion, and we can't
>>allow that. You do that, mocking anything that you think might drift
>>in that direction. Dawkins said that he was a capital-A Atheist first,
>>and everything else flowed from that.
>>
>>He was capital-B Boring too, as compulsive believers tend to be.
>
>Well no use educting the brain washed.
>Best of luck special heap of cells.
>It is not bad that 'I' do not know what you babble about., much worse is that 'you' do not know.

On 3/15/24 16:11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:11:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/24 10:35, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>> would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>> use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>> and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You go first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>> but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>> So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>> or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>> and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>> (circular reasoning).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>> to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>> have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>> Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>> project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>>
>>>>> I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>> attack any.
>>>>>
>>>>> RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>> on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>> working electronic instrument.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>> quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>>
>>> >from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>> >from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>> Readup on Darwin
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>>
>>> Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>> if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>> as our origin.
>>>
>>
>> And we are skeptical of your intelligent design stance. For that
>> matter, there are quite a few blunders in living beings that an
>> intelligent designer wouldn't have made.
>
> What you call my "stance" is one conjecture. I have others that you'd
> approve of even less.
>
> Our cells are extraordinary, so their creation might have been an
> extraordinary process. Refuse to think about possibilities if that's
> your style.
>
> There are youtube videos about cell replication that are mind
> boggling. It doesn't work until a zillion fiendshly complex things all
> work, and the cell defines them for itself.
>
> Thinking about possibilities helps electronic design too.
>

There are lots of chemists and biologists who think that self-
replicating RNA is a credible step on the path towards evolving
life. There is no need for the seeds of life to have come from
elsewhere than earth, although that possibility is not excluded.

It's remarkable that the reproduction of RNA and DNA still today
can be made to work simply by cycling the temperature of the right
mixture of chemicals, much like day and night cycles, as may well
have happened on a young earth.

To our current knowledge, actual intelligent designers are even
less probable than random mutations producing a working cell. How
did the intelligent designers come to be? They would have been
subject to the same kind of constraints as life on earth, the
right conditions and enough time.

In fact, as long as we haven't found evidence of life elsewhere
in the universe, we can't have any real idea of how common or rare
it is. However, we *can* be pretty confident that *intelligent*
life is at least a few million times less likely than just any
life. On those grounds, I have less trouble believing in evolution
than in intelligent design.

Darwin's evolution provides a plausible path to the complex life
we see today, without requiring intelligent or divine intervention.
That's its strength. Postulating such intervention is superstition
unless direct convincing evidence is found.

As for the possible existence of alien civilisations with billions
of years advance on us, I'm skeptical. Based on what we see on earth,
I tend to think that technically advanced civilisations are unstable.
I think they'll blow themselves up rather quickly, on cosmic time
scales.

On 16/03/2024 2:04 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:42:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid wrote:

<snip>

> Blind faith hand-waving about random mutation and selection is mystic.

It would be, if that was what had been going on. John Larkin is too
pig-ignorant to be a ware of the decades of work that went into
establishing that random mutations do happen, and that the mutations
that do produce an improvement in the next generation do experience
positive selection.

Covid-19 has been giving us an object lesson in this behavior for the
past couple of years, but John hasn't noticed.

> Conjecturing about an actual, unlikely but plausible, origin of life
> is not.

If you are as pig-ignorant about the subject as John Larkin is, his
speculations don't rate as mysticism - contentless rabbiting on is the
technical term.

> One big problem with accounting for DNA life is that an entire class
> of possible mechanisms is sneered at because considering them invokes
> the fear of drifting even slightly towards religion, and we can't
> allow that.

It's more that invoking a creator is pulling a rabbit from a hat, and
avoiding thinking about where the creator came from

> You do that, mocking anything that you think might drift
> in that direction. Dawkins said that he was a capital-A Atheist first,
> and everything else flowed from that.

But in fact he is a biologist first, and his aversion to intelligent
design is mainly based on the sloppy thinking it embodies.

> He was capital-B Boring too, as compulsive believers tend to be.

John Larkin doesn't understand much, and finds stuff he doesn't
understand boring. He's much too vain to admit that he's pig-ignorant,
even to himself.

Lot's of people don't find the book boring.

"Tim Radford, writing in The Guardian, noted that despite Dawkins's
"combative secular humanism", he had written "a patient, often beautiful
book... that begins in a generous mood and sustains its generosity to
the end." 30 years on, people still read the book, Radford argues,
because it is "one of the best books ever to address, patiently and
persuasively, the question that has baffled bishops and disconcerted
dissenters alike: how did nature achieve its astonishing complexity and
variety?"".

It is still in print after thirty years. Boring books do tend to go out
of print.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 16/03/2024 3:10 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:52:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:04:17 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <lun8vido07cnl5t4n7t7gl08e3sbinqpr3@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:42:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:35:27 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <eb58vidh7uivropd4lb3tjbf5iam87cid2@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>>>> use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>>>> and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You go first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>>>> but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>>>> So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>>>> or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>>>> and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>>>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>>>> (circular reasoning).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>>>> to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>>>> have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>>>> Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>>>> project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>>>> attack any.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>>>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>>>> on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>>>> working electronic instrument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>>>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>>>> quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>>>> >from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>>>> Readup on Darwin
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>>>> if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>>>> as our origin.
>>>>
>>>> Did you actually READ the
>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>> link?
>>>> It is all very simple.
>>>
>>> Too simple. It's not DNA, not cells, it's unlikely to continue
>>> replicating outside the lab, and, being a lab experiment, is
>>> "intelligent design." Well, moderately intelligent.
>>>
>>> Lots of chemical reactions can be forced to replicate in the lab.
>>>
>>>> Life is everywhere buzzing
>>>> just like electrons around atoms
>>>>
>>>> The religious leaders have various routines to keep their power and palaces,
>>>> suck your money and wash you brain and force you into obedience
>>>> Take a step back.
>>>> The rain-dances ended when rain-radar was more accurate
>>>> Our lifeform has evolved something called 'ego' to protect ourself.
>>>> We are not that more complex than that sunshade with photo sensor that has a voice added
>>>> so when the sun shines it says 'sun', I am closing, and if no sun, I am opening.
>>>> That, in short, is all consciousness is.
>>>> Never the less we are all connected, these days via radio and teefee too.
>>>> Drop the mystics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Blind faith hand-waving about random mutation and selection is mystic.
>>> Conjecturing about an actual, unlikely but plausible, origin of life
>>> is not.
>>>
>>> One big problem with accounting for DNA life is that an entire class
>>> of possible mechanisms is sneered at because considering them invokes
>>> the fear of drifting even slightly towards religion, and we can't
>>> allow that. You do that, mocking anything that you think might drift
>>> in that direction. Dawkins said that he was a capital-A Atheist first,
>>> and everything else flowed from that.
>>>
>>> He was capital-B Boring too, as compulsive believers tend to be.
>>
>> Well no use educating the brain washed.
>> Best of luck special heap of cells.
>> It is not bad that 'I' do not know what you babble about., much worse is that 'you' do not know.
>
> As one rich and famous person said, "Don't be a jerk. Nobody likes
> jerks."

On 16/03/2024 2:11 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:11:29 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/24 10:35, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 07:28:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:38:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <s3d6vi95gfrbs6omoula55soaktalpggru@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:46:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in46vipa7a3eb6q7au6alobve5vfmv5jso@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:13:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 03:54:24 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <ae13viptr1sskaqq1h2ru1j9i85sdecfrd@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 07:09:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 14:18:18 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>> <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <34h1vihp32geb2olkcscfksbr8k0bdgdmu@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:22:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Shields up: New ideas might make active shielding viable
>>>>>>>>>>>> Active shielding was first proposed in the '60s. We’re finally close to making it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/03/shields-up-new-ideas-might-make-active-shielding-viable/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of static oelectricity, 1 MV ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's all absurd, cramming a crew into a tiny dark cylinder, deep
>>>>>>>>>>> inside tons of magnets, to reduce their radiation exposure a little.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes that may be more dangerus, tha tI why I like the elctrostatic solution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Space is not people-friendly. Earth is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Traveling to or living on Mars woud be lethal. Living on the moon
>>>>>>>>>>> would be bad too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could convert some comet, live inside it,
>>>>>>>>>> use its material for power water and shelter
>>>>>>>>>> and put an engine on it and start interstellar travel:
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You go first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh I would not mind flying the comet thing, would want to have a say in the design and food chosen though.
>>>>>>>> but it will take generations to reach any target destination.
>>>>>>>> So you have to bring whole families ,
>>>>>>>> or as things go now, just some skin and have a computah hatch you
>>>>>>>> and teach you when growing up near the destination.
>>>>>>>> Makes you wonder if the first life on earth was brought here in a similar way
>>>>>>>> (circular reasoning).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Earth is too good to be an accident, and our life form is too complex
>>>>>>> to have evolved from inorganics. Other civiizations in the universe
>>>>>>> have probably advanced for billions of years. So it's likely that
>>>>>>> Earth and DNA-based life were designed, maybe as a high school science
>>>>>>> project. I give it a B-.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I won't attack your religious beliefs
>>>>>
>>>>> I expressed no religious beliefs, and it's good that you wouldn't
>>>>> attack any.
>>>>>
>>>>> RNA World is a religious belief. Concensus and faith without evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just watched some news story where a sort of computer robot was teaching kids...
>>>>>> Again, an other science program today on TV about planets: all sort of basic chemistry was found
>>>>>> on some moons and asteroids.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. Chemicals are not life, as a junk box full of parts is not a
>>>>> working electronic instrument.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> They did a testing in the lab and made RNA from just basic chemicals added some heat cycling and dry soak cycle
>>>>>> like you will find on planets (sun, tides):
>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2022-03-insight-life.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we are just a chemical reaction really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We are an astoundingly complex structure that uses chemicals and
>>>>> quantum mechanics. At least I am.
>>>>
>>> >from elementary particles to atoms to molecules to self-replicating RNA (check)
>>> >from RNA to DNA and ever more complex forms like us (check)
>>>> Readup on Darwin
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Read up on the ways our cells operate and reproduce. It's astounding.
>>>
>>> Darwin was very smart, but he had no idea how cells work. I think that
>>> if he had, he'd have been skeptical of random evolution and selection
>>> as our origin.
>>
>> And we are skeptical of your intelligent design stance. For that
>> matter, there are quite a few blunders in living beings that an
>> intelligent designer wouldn't have made.
>
> What you call my "stance" is one conjecture. I have others that you'd
> approve of even less.

Your stance is one of incorrigible ignorance. You have the same problem
with climate change.

> Our cells are extraordinary, so their creation might have been an
> extraordinary process. Refuse to think about possibilities if that's
> your style.

Our cells are very ordinary. There are lots of them around.
The origin of the first self-replicating cell was probably equally
ordinary, and there were probably a lot of different solutions that all
more or less worked, but Darwinian selection got rid of all but the best
solution.

> There are youtube videos about cell replication that are mind
> boggling. It doesn't work until a zillion fiendshly complex things all
> work, and the cell defines them for itself.

They do now.

> Thinking about possibilities helps electronic design too.

Not that you show much sign of ever having done it. The circuits you
boast about don't come with any mention of the next-best solution.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney