On 2023-05-20 19:01, RichA wrote:
> Most of the people who take up film shooting do it with an old film body bought off Ebay, or ETSY or shopgoodwill, etc. Part of their fascination with it is the nostalgia and there are hundreds of millions of old film bodies, most available for peanuts. Trying to sell a new body for film might not fly. The cost to make a reliable mechanical camera today will be high. Leica can charge what is needed, but for Pentax, it'll be interesting to see what direction they take, dirt cheap, or higher-end.

I hope they don't spend too much on this niche.

I was at a "camera swap meet" about 18 months ago. I unloaded my
Hasselblad's at a surprisingly good price (Pandemic hobbyists had driven
up prices).
Unloaded my film scanner for more than I paid for it.
Unloaded (with a twinge of regret) my Maxxum 9 body. Magnificent camera.

Unloaded a Sekonic meter.

Meanwhile at the tables around me, the old guys couldn't unload
anything. There were oodles of 35mm bodies for sale and few buyers in
the room.
Indeed popular digital camera models only 10 years old were languishing too.

I couldn't sell my Alien Bees though - nor some other stuff.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-05-21, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-05-20 19:01, RichA wrote:
>> Most of the people who take up film shooting do it with an old film body bought off Ebay, or ETSY or shopgoodwill, etc. Part of their fascination with it is the nostalgia and there are hundreds of millions of old film bodies, most available for peanuts. Trying to sell a new body for film might not fly. The cost to make a reliable mechanical camera today will be high. Leica can charge what is needed, but for Pentax, it'll be interesting to see what direction they take, dirt cheap, or higher-end.
>
> I hope they don't spend too much on this niche.
>
> I was at a "camera swap meet" about 18 months ago. I unloaded my
> Hasselblad's at a surprisingly good price (Pandemic hobbyists had driven
> up prices).
> Unloaded my film scanner for more than I paid for it.
> Unloaded (with a twinge of regret) my Maxxum 9 body. Magnificent camera.
>
> Unloaded a Sekonic meter.
>
> Meanwhile at the tables around me, the old guys couldn't unload
> anything. There were oodles of 35mm bodies for sale and few buyers in
> the room.
> Indeed popular digital camera models only 10 years old were languishing too.
>
> I couldn't sell my Alien Bees though - nor some other stuff.

The Nikon F5 - arguably the best 35mm film camera ever made - still goes
for a good price. I bought one about a year ago. I use it and my FM.

On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 11:46:22 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 May 2023 at 09:02:51 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
> > On 2023-05-20 19:01, RichA wrote:
> > > Most of the people who take up film shooting do it with an old film body bought off Ebay, or ETSY or shopgoodwill, etc. Part of their fascination with it is the nostalgia and there are hundreds of millions of old film bodies, most available for peanuts. Trying to sell a new body for film might not fly. The cost to make a reliable mechanical camera today will be high. Leica can charge what is needed, but for Pentax, it'll be interesting to see what direction they take, dirt cheap, or higher-end.
> > I hope they don't spend too much on this niche.
> >
> > I was at a "camera swap meet" about 18 months ago. I unloaded my
> > Hasselblad's at a surprisingly good price (Pandemic hobbyists had driven
> > up prices).
> > Unloaded my film scanner for more than I paid for it.
> > Unloaded (with a twinge of regret) my Maxxum 9 body. Magnificent camera..
> >
> > Unloaded a Sekonic meter.
> >
> > Meanwhile at the tables around me, the old guys couldn't unload
> > anything. There were oodles of 35mm bodies for sale and few buyers in
> > the room.
> There are a few select bodies that bring in money,

I've got an old Polaroid land 110B in it's box which hasn't been converted to take mordern film don;t think it'll even take 120 Roll.
..
And an old 1970s Olympus 35mm microscope camera in box almost new.

and desirable lenses do. Most of the higher prices are fully-manual cameras like Olympus OM-1's, Leicas, Nikon FM's, etc. Olympus Zuiko lenses, some of their prices have hit the stratosphere, the f/2.0 versions of the 70's lenses go for BIG dollars. Camera bodies from the 80's and 90's, the plastic junk are worthless except for some instamatics.
> Hasselblad prices hit bottom around 2010 which 500 bodies going for less than $200.00 sometimes but wide-angle lenses (and bodies) stayed high. But with some film now at $20/roll and possibly going higher,
> this fad might die.

Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
> this fad might die.

I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 2023-05-22 18:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>> this fad might die.
>
> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.

That's an interesting one.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <fFMaM.1297747$alff.538965@fx07.ams1>, Alfred Molon
<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.

because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.

On 2023-05-22 18:48, nospam wrote:
> In article <fFMaM.1297747$alff.538965@fx07.ams1>, Alfred Molon
> <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>
> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.

Huh, no, they are not more capable. You need lots more resources to
handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <scksjjxh03.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>
> >> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
> >
> > because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>
> Huh, no, they are not more capable.

oh yes they are. it's not even close.

web forums offer styled text (including different fonts, sizes and
colours), embedded multimedia, including photos/audio/video, direct
messaging between users (without needing to know their actual email),
notification of replies, sticky posts, spam filtering, banning trolls
and much more.

> You need lots more resources to
> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.

so what?

it's not 1985 anymore.

resources are cheap. disk space is cheap. bandwidth is cheap.

the amount of traffic that this group gets (a handful of posts a day)
could be hosted on a raspberry pi.

On 2023-05-22 19:41, nospam wrote:
> In article <scksjjxh03.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>
>>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>>
>> Huh, no, they are not more capable.
>
> oh yes they are. it's not even close.
>
> web forums offer styled text (including different fonts, sizes and
> colours), embedded multimedia, including photos/audio/video, direct
> messaging between users (without needing to know their actual email),
> notification of replies, sticky posts, spam filtering, banning trolls
> and much more.

Precisely for that, you need more capable machines to handle the same
amount of usage.

>
>> You need lots more resources to
>> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.
>
> so what?

That you need more capable machines to handle the same amount of usage.

>
> it's not 1985 anymore.
>
> resources are cheap. disk space is cheap. bandwidth is cheap.
>
> the amount of traffic that this group gets (a handful of posts a day)
> could be hosted on a raspberry pi.

Exactly.

That's what I am saying. Thank you for agreeing with me so fast :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <e9rsjjxa4u.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
> >>>
> >>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
> >>
> >> Huh, no, they are not more capable.
> >
> > oh yes they are. it's not even close.
> >
> > web forums offer styled text (including different fonts, sizes and
> > colours), embedded multimedia, including photos/audio/video, direct
> > messaging between users (without needing to know their actual email),
> > notification of replies, sticky posts, spam filtering, banning trolls
> > and much more.
>
> Precisely for that,

so you agree that it can do more.

> you need more capable machines to handle the same
> amount of usage.

such machines do exist and have for quite some time.

it's also not as resource intensive as you seem to think.

again, it's not 1985 anymore, when much of usenet was still sent
overnight via dial-up modems.

On 23/05/2023 4:22 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>> this fad might die.
>
> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.

Or telex.

geoff

On 23/05/2023 7:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-05-22 19:41, nospam wrote:
>> In article <scksjjxh03.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>>
>>>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>>>
>>> Huh, no, they are not more capable.
>>
>> oh yes they are. it's not even close.
>>
>> web forums offer styled text (including different fonts, sizes and
>> colours), embedded multimedia, including photos/audio/video, direct
>> messaging between users (without needing to know their actual email),
>> notification of replies, sticky posts, spam filtering, banning trolls
>> and much more.
>
> Precisely for that, you need more capable machines to handle the same
> amount of usage.
>
>
>>
>>> You need lots more resources to
>>> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.
>>
>> so what?
>
> That you need more capable machines to handle the same amount of usage.

You haven't got a machine capable ?!!!

geoff

On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 17:22:42 UTC+1, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
> > this fad might die.
>
> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.

They can't work out how to post a selfie .

> --
> Alfred Molon
>
> Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
> https://groups.io/g/myolympus
> https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 2023-05-23 13:51, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 17:22:42 UTC+1, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>> this fad might die.
>>
>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>
> They can't work out how to post a selfie .
Actually, nntp can do rich text and photos, with html. And can have
moderators, too.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <cdf6kjx4b4.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> Actually, nntp can do rich text and photos, with html. And can have
> moderators, too.

and quickly get banned for doing so.

On 2023-05-22 13:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-05-22 18:48, nospam wrote:
>> In article <fFMaM.1297747$alff.538965@fx07.ams1>, Alfred Molon
>> <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>
>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>
> Huh, no, they are not more capable. You need lots more resources to
> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.

From the user's perspective, web based forums can be far more capable.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>> this fad might die.
>
> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.

Some have never
- written a cheque
- used a typewriter
- dialed a phone number
- sent a letter by mail

and much more ...

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Am 26.05.2023 um 19:53 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-05-22 13:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-05-22 18:48, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <fFMaM.1297747$alff.538965@fx07.ams1>, Alfred Molon
>>> <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>
>>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>>
>> Huh, no, they are not more capable. You need lots more resources to
>> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.
>
> From the user's perspective, web based forums can be far more capable.

Also digital cameras are far more capable, but some people choose to use
film.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Am 26.05.2023 um 19:55 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>> this fad might die.
>>
>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>
> Some have never
> - written a cheque
> - used a typewriter
> - dialed a phone number
> - sent a letter by mail
>
> and much more ...

My kids have never seen a phone with the rotating dial and don't know
what a fax is.

When my sister was a teenager she used to block for hours the only phone
we had at home. Now my daughters communicate with their schoolmates (and
other people globally) in an unlimited way with their smartphones,
tablets and PCs.
We have a fixed line phone at home, but almost never use it.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 2023-05-26 14:10, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 26.05.2023 um 19:55 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>>> this fad might die.
>>>
>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>
>> Some have never
>> - written a cheque
>> - used a typewriter
>> - dialed a phone number
>> - sent a letter by mail
>>
>> and much more ...
>
> My kids have never seen a phone with the rotating dial and don't know
> what a fax is.
>
> When my sister was a teenager she used to block for hours the only phone
> we had at home. Now my daughters communicate with their schoolmates (and
> other people globally) in an unlimited way with their smartphones,
> tablets and PCs.
> We have a fixed line phone at home, but almost never use it.

Dumped the land line a few years ago.

Technically dumped it about 8 or 9 years ago when I went to 2nd tier
VOIP (Magic Jack) for the land line. At least it had free North
American dialing...

Prior to that had a proper cable co. based VOIP phone line for about 3
years - more reliable than "internet" based VOIP.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 27/05/2023 6:10 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 26.05.2023 um 19:55 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>>> this fad might die.
>>>
>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>
>> Some have never
>> - written a cheque
>> - used a typewriter
>> - dialed a phone number
>> - sent a letter by mail
>>
>> and much more ...
>
> My kids have never seen a phone with the rotating dial and don't know
> what a fax is.
>
>

I've said before, I have a green STC 726 with rotary dial that still
dials and bells ring over fibre !

geoff

On 2023-05-26 22:17, geoff wrote:
> On 27/05/2023 6:10 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> Am 26.05.2023 um 19:55 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>>>> this fad might die.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>
>>> Some have never
>>> - written a cheque
>>> - used a typewriter
>>> - dialed a phone number
>>> - sent a letter by mail
>>>
>>> and much more ...
>>
>> My kids have never seen a phone with the rotating dial and don't know
>> what a fax is.
>>
>>
>
> I've said before, I have a green STC 726 with rotary dial that still
> dials and bells ring over fibre !

The fibre has to be converted to electrical at some point for this to work.

I can still dial a phone w/o a dial. Just slamming the hook at the
right pace and count...

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 28/05/2023 3:33 am, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-05-26 22:17, geoff wrote:
>> On 27/05/2023 6:10 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> Am 26.05.2023 um 19:55 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> On 2023-05-22 12:22, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>>> Am 22.05.2023 um 12:46 schrieb RichA:
>>>>>> this fad might die.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>>
>>>> Some have never
>>>> - written a cheque
>>>> - used a typewriter
>>>> - dialed a phone number
>>>> - sent a letter by mail
>>>>
>>>> and much more ...
>>>
>>> My kids have never seen a phone with the rotating dial and don't know
>>> what a fax is.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've said before, I have a green STC 726 with rotary dial that still
>> dials and bells ring over fibre !
>
> The fibre has to be converted to electrical at some point for this to work.

Yes, that happens in the home at the ONT (optical network terminator).
Just sticking a fibre into your computer or LAN or whatever can't happen.

This particular ONT (totally default install here, NZ) understands 50VDC
phone lines, decadic pulse dialling (yes and tapping it out on the
switch-hook), DTMF dialling, and 80V ringing.
>
> I can still dial a phone w/o a dial.  Just slamming the hook at the
> right pace and count...

Dunno about 'slamming'. Tapping with your finger the right number of
pulses, fast enough, does.

geoff

On 2023-05-26 15:53, nospam wrote:
> In article <cdf6kjx4b4.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Actually, nntp can do rich text and photos, with html. And can have
>> moderators, too.
>
> and quickly get banned for doing so.

Notice that I said "nntp", not "Usenet". You can set up nntp networks
separated from Usenet with different rules.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-05-26 19:53, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-05-22 13:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-05-22 18:48, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <fFMaM.1297747$alff.538965@fx07.ams1>, Alfred Molon
>>> <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why millenials haven't yet discovered usenet.
>>>
>>> because web forums are far more capable, with far more traffic.
>>
>> Huh, no, they are not more capable. You need lots more resources to
>> handle the same traffic on a web forum machine than on an nntp machine.
>
> From the user's perspective, web based forums can be far more capable.

True.

Well... also depends.

If one is at a location with limited connectivity, a web forum can be
problematic. One also needs a more powerful computer.

Keeping a local copy of the messages (many, not a few) is also a
problem, depending on the site.

--
Cheers, Carlos.