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tech / rec.photo.digital / Non-DSLR first impressions

SubjectAuthor
* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
+* Non-DSLR first impressionsAlfred Molon
|+- Non-DSLR first impressionsAlan Browne
|`- Non-DSLR first impressionsWhisky-dave
+* Non-DSLR first impressionsAlan Browne
|`* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
| `- Non-DSLR first impressionsAlan Browne
+- Non-DSLR first impressionsRJH
+* Non-DSLR first impressionsGordon Freeman
|`- Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
`* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
 +* Non-DSLR first impressionsWhisky-dave
 |+- Non-DSLR first impressionsAlan Browne
 |`- Non-DSLR first impressionsMagani
 +- Non-DSLR first impressionsAlan Browne
 `* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
  `* Non-DSLR first impressionsAlfred Molon
   `* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
    `* Non-DSLR first impressionsAlfred Molon
     +* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
     |`- Non-DSLR first impressionsAlfred Molon
     `* Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff
      `* Non-DSLR first impressionsWhisky-dave
       `* Non-DSLR first impressionsDavid Taylor
        +* Non-DSLR first impressionsWhisky-dave
        |`* Non-DSLR first impressionsDavid Taylor
        | `- Non-DSLR first impressionsWhisky-dave
        `- Non-DSLR first impressionsgeoff

Pages:12
Non-DSLR first impressions

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From: geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org (geoff)
Subject: Non-DSLR first impressions
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 by: geoff - Mon, 12 Jun 2023 07:35 UTC

Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.

Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
focusing was required I guess.

geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alfred Molon - Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:26 UTC

Am 12.06.2023 um 09:35 schrieb geoff:
> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>
> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> focusing was required I guess.

(True story) Years ago in the film era a guy went on a holiday. After
coming back, he gave the negatives for printing in the local photo shop.
He got back the negatives, all developed, but no prints. Apparently he
had forgotten to remove the lens cap before taking pictures.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:37 UTC

On 2023-06-12 03:35, geoff wrote:
> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>
> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> focusing was required I guess.

My DLSR is usually in MF so I'd often have it in focus before turning it
on. Handed it to someone to take a photo of me - "You're camera won't
focus!" (...sigh).

Indian: You cannot take my picture.
Leica photog: Because my camera will steal your soul?
Indian: No. Because the lens cap is still on.

Every new piece of equipment has its learning curve - at least with your
camera it's pretty clear what's going on.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:42 UTC

On 2023-06-12 12:26, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 12.06.2023 um 09:35 schrieb geoff:
>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the
>> lens.
>>
>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit
>> of doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>> focusing was required I guess.
>
> (True story) Years ago in the film era a guy went on a holiday. After
> coming back, he gave the negatives for printing in the local photo shop.
> He got back the negatives, all developed, but no prints. Apparently he
> had forgotten to remove the lens cap before taking pictures.

Complements my comment ...

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: geoff - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 01:41 UTC

On 13/06/2023 12:37 pm, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-06-12 03:35, geoff wrote:
>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the
>> lens.
>>
>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit
>> of doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>> focusing was required I guess.
>
> My DLSR is usually in MF so I'd often have it in focus before turning it
> on.  Handed it to someone to take a photo of me - "You're camera won't
> focus!"  (...sigh).
>
> Indian: You cannot take my picture.
> Leica photog: Because my camera will steal your soul?
> Indian: No.  Because the lens cap is still on.
>
> Every new piece of equipment has its learning curve - at least with your
> camera it's pretty clear what's going on.
>

Not referring to 'learning curve'. Referring to manner of using.

geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: RJH - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 05:59 UTC

On 12 Jun 2023 at 08:35:12 BST, geoff wrote:

> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>
> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> focusing was required I guess.
>
> geoff

I'd tended to use the viewfinder OSD on my DSLR which required powering it up.
So the transition was easy for me . . .

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Whisky-dave - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:34 UTC

On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 17:26:15 UTC+1, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 12.06.2023 um 09:35 schrieb geoff:
> > Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
> >
> > Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> > doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> > focusing was required I guess.
> (True story) Years ago in the film era a guy went on a holiday. After
> coming back, he gave the negatives for printing in the local photo shop.
> He got back the negatives, all developed, but no prints. Apparently he
> had forgotten to remove the lens cap before taking pictures.

My dad used to take quite a few pictures of the floor as he had two camera around his neck and sometimes they'd hit each other
as they dangled and the shutter would go off.

Did you hear about the man that videoed various things using his camera
so all he got was views of himself looking things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ6K_VIvXW8

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:57 UTC

On 2023-06-12 21:41, geoff wrote:
> On 13/06/2023 12:37 pm, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-06-12 03:35, geoff wrote:
>>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the
>>> lens.
>>>
>>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit
>>> of doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>>> focusing was required I guess.
>>
>> My DLSR is usually in MF so I'd often have it in focus before turning
>> it on.  Handed it to someone to take a photo of me - "You're camera
>> won't focus!"  (...sigh).
>>
>> Indian: You cannot take my picture.
>> Leica photog: Because my camera will steal your soul?
>> Indian: No.  Because the lens cap is still on.
>>
>> Every new piece of equipment has its learning curve - at least with
>> your camera it's pretty clear what's going on.
>>
>
> Not referring to 'learning curve'. Referring to manner of using.

By any other name ...

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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From: Gordon@freeman.invalid (Gordon Freeman)
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Subject: Re: Non-DSLR first impressions
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 22:08:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gordon Freeman - Wed, 14 Jun 2023 22:08 UTC

geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:

> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through
the lens.
>
> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the
habit of
> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> focusing was required I guess.
>
> geoff

Yes, and if it is a compact cameras with a small battery you can end
up draining the battery just eyeing up potential shots.

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: geoff - Wed, 14 Jun 2023 23:33 UTC

On 15/06/2023 10:08 am, Gordon Freeman wrote:
> geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:
>
>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through
> the lens.
>>
>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the
> habit of
>> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>> focusing was required I guess.
>>
>> geoff
>
> Yes, and if it is a compact cameras with a small battery you can end
> up draining the battery just eyeing up potential shots.

I just bought a spare Nikon battery at 3+ x the 'generic' price !

Sadly the spare Wasabi 'EN-EL15' batteries I had for my D800/850 do not
talk to the Z8 ;- (

geoff

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 by: geoff - Thu, 15 Jun 2023 01:38 UTC

On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
> On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>>
>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
>> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>> focusing was required I guess.
>>
>> geoff
>
> Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a manual film SLR?

Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...

geoff

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 by: Whisky-dave - Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:54 UTC

On Thursday, 15 June 2023 at 02:39:09 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
> > On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> >> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
> >>
> >> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> >> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> >> focusing was required I guess.
> >>
> >> geoff
> >
> > Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a manual film SLR?
> Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...
>
> geoff

I had a meter that didn't need batteries and before that exposure could be worked out by looking at the
lighting conditions, film sensitivity and a few other criteria.

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 by: Alan Browne - Thu, 15 Jun 2023 20:27 UTC

On 2023-06-15 02:38, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 14 June 2023 at 21:39:09 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>> On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
>>> On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>>>>
>>>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
>>>> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>>>> focusing was required I guess.
>>>>
>>>> geoff
>>>
>>> Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a manual film SLR?
>> Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...
>>
>> geoff
>
> Sunny 16!!

With an offset table, one could use that phrase and get good exposure in
almost all conditions w/o a meter.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alan Browne - Thu, 15 Jun 2023 20:27 UTC

On 2023-06-15 08:54, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Thursday, 15 June 2023 at 02:39:09 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
>> On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
>>> On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
>>>>
>>>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
>>>> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>>>> focusing was required I guess.
>>>>
>>>> geoff
>>>
>>> Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a manual film SLR?
>> Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...
>>
>> geoff
>
> I had a meter that didn't need batteries and before that exposure could be worked out by looking at the
> lighting conditions, film sensitivity and a few other criteria.

+1

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

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Subject: Re: Non-DSLR first impressions
From: cdsross@gmail.com (Magani)
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 by: Magani - Fri, 16 Jun 2023 01:06 UTC

On Thursday, 15 June 2023 at 10:54:47 pm UTC+10, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Thursday, 15 June 2023 at 02:39:09 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> > On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
> > > On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > >> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the lens.
> > >>
> > >> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
> > >> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
> > >> focusing was required I guess.
> > >>
> > >> geoff
> > >
> > > Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a manual film SLR?
> > Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...
> >
> > geoff
> I had a meter that didn't need batteries and before that exposure could be worked out by looking at the
> lighting conditions, film sensitivity and a few other criteria.

I still occasionally use my Dad's Weston Master light meter. I remember he bought it about the same time he got his rangefinder Canon (basically a Leica copy) in the mid-1950s. Still works a treat. (Batteries not included - nor needed).

Magani.

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: geoff - Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:41 UTC

On 15/06/2023 1:38 pm, geoff wrote:
> On 15/06/2023 1:05 pm, RichA wrote:
>> On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 03:35:29 UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>> Hard to get used to having to turn it on in order to look through the
>>> lens.
>>>
>>> Never realised just how much composing and framing I was in the habit of
>>> doing before even bothering to turn the DLSR camera on. Not until
>>> focusing was required I guess.
>>>
>>> geoff
>>
>> Remember when you didn't even need power to take a picture with a
>> manual film SLR?
>
> Well, you did if you wanted your meter to work ...
>
> geoff

Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home without
*at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.

geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alfred Molon - Tue, 20 Jun 2023 16:31 UTC

Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home without
> *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.

What happened?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

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 by: geoff - Tue, 20 Jun 2023 21:52 UTC

On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home without
>> *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
>
> What happened?

I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe more
than some people.

Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the main
drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.

geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alfred Molon - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 16:23 UTC

Am 20.06.2023 um 23:52 schrieb geoff:
> On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
>>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home
>>> without *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
>>
>> What happened?
>
>
> I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
> framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe more
> than some people.
>
> Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the main
> drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.

Personally I've never managed to empty a fully charged battery in one
day. But then I do not shoot thousands of frames in a day.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: geoff - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 21:38 UTC

On 22/06/2023 4:23 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 20.06.2023 um 23:52 schrieb geoff:
>> On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
>>>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home
>>>> without *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
>>>
>>> What happened?
>>
>>
>> I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
>> framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe
>> more than some people.
>>
>> Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the
>> main drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.
>
> Personally I've never managed to empty a fully charged battery in one
> day. But then I do not shoot thousands of frames in a day.

With what camera/s ?

geoff

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 by: geoff - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 21:40 UTC

On 22/06/2023 4:23 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Am 20.06.2023 um 23:52 schrieb geoff:
>> On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
>>>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home
>>>> without *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
>>>
>>> What happened?
>>
>>
>> I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
>> framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe
>> more than some people.
>>
>> Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the
>> main drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.
>
> Personally I've never managed to empty a fully charged battery in one
> day. But then I do not shoot thousands of frames in a day.

Little to do with number of frame shot. I am finding more related to
time looking through viewfinder.

geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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Subject: Re: Non-DSLR first impressions
From: whisky.dave@gmail.com (Whisky-dave)
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 by: Whisky-dave - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 11:24 UTC

On Wednesday, 21 June 2023 at 22:41:07 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
> On 22/06/2023 4:23 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> > Am 20.06.2023 um 23:52 schrieb geoff:
> >> On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
> >>> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
> >>>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home
> >>>> without *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
> >>>
> >>> What happened?
> >>
> >>
> >> I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
> >> framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe
> >> more than some people.
> >>
> >> Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the
> >> main drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.
> >
> > Personally I've never managed to empty a fully charged battery in one
> > day. But then I do not shoot thousands of frames in a day.
> Little to do with number of frame shot. I am finding more related to
> time looking through viewfinder.

Yes I'd agree althpough it might not be due to looking through the viewfinder but because
the electronics in the camera are on. Could also be worse for mirrorless cameras as they tend to have large 3" LCDs
that are on and in most cases I have to turn the brightness up to use outdoors.
I also doubt actually taking a photo uses much power as it's a relatively short time peroid compared to
focusing and framing and finking about a shot FF&F :-).

>
> geoff

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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From: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid (David Taylor)
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Subject: Re: Non-DSLR first impressions
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:31:57 +0100
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 by: David Taylor - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:31 UTC

On 22/06/2023 12:24, Whisky-dave wrote:
> Yes I'd agree althpough it might not be due to looking through the viewfinder but because
> the electronics in the camera are on. Could also be worse for mirrorless cameras as they tend to have large 3" LCDs
> that are on and in most cases I have to turn the brightness up to use outdoors.
> I also doubt actually taking a photo uses much power as it's a relatively short time peroid compared to
> focusing and framing and finking about a shot FF&F 😄.

I find - now that I mainly use a mobile phone - that I use my eyes to look
directly at the scene and decide how I might frame it, what zoom to use, and
then take the shot looking through the phone screen. The phone battery lasts a
day or more - it's not an issue as there's no chunky lens zoom or focus to drive.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Whisky-dave - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:47 UTC

On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 15:32:05 UTC+1, David Taylor wrote:
> On 22/06/2023 12:24, Whisky-dave wrote:
> > Yes I'd agree althpough it might not be due to looking through the viewfinder but because
> > the electronics in the camera are on. Could also be worse for mirrorless cameras as they tend to have large 3" LCDs
> > that are on and in most cases I have to turn the brightness up to use outdoors.
> > I also doubt actually taking a photo uses much power as it's a relatively short time peroid compared to
> > focusing and framing and finking about a shot FF&F 😄.
>
> I find - now that I mainly use a mobile phone - that I use my eyes to look
> directly at the scene and decide how I might frame it, what zoom to use, and
> then take the shot looking through the phone screen.

I do the same but with a proper camera ;-)

> The phone battery lasts a
> day or more - it's not an issue as there's no chunky lens zoom or focus to drive.

I guess it depends on whether you're taking snaps or photos ;-D

> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

Re: Non-DSLR first impressions

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 by: Alfred Molon - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:30 UTC

Am 21.06.2023 um 23:38 schrieb geoff:
> On 22/06/2023 4:23 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> Am 20.06.2023 um 23:52 schrieb geoff:
>>> On 21/06/2023 4:31 am, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>> Am 20.06.2023 um 03:41 schrieb geoff:
>>>>> Have decided it's never a good idea to head out of office/home
>>>>> without *at least* one spare fully-charged battery. Preferably two.
>>>>
>>>> What happened?
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I do a lot of looking through the lens , finding subjects,
>>> framing, exploring option, etc, before even taking a picture. Maybe
>>> more than some people.
>>>
>>> Seems to use more battery than doing the same with a DSLR where the
>>> main drain is for focusing. Not for even to see any viewfinder image.
>>
>> Personally I've never managed to empty a fully charged battery in one
>> day. But then I do not shoot thousands of frames in a day.
>
> With what camera/s ?

Olympus E-M1 Mark II and now III. One fully charged battery is good for
several hundred shots, each with EV, LCD, AF etc.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

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