Zuber @Grm: (2-handled) tub
Zuber kupharigolu cwrgwl coracle topa teba

2 handles/slots evolved from divots/holes dug under walls to enable airflow but prevent vermin when it became better sealed to the forest floor yet allowed quick domeshield egress/tilting, later adapted into the basket frame for easy carrying.

On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:11:09 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Zuber @Grm: (2-handled) tub
> Zuber kupharigolu cwrgwl coracle topa teba
>
> 2 handles/slots evolved from divots/holes dug under walls to enable airflow but prevent vermin when it became better sealed to the forest floor yet allowed quick domeshield egress/tilting, later adapted into the basket frame for easy carrying.

Odd semantic cluster(f**k?)

Caning whipped
Canning bottled
Jarring shaken
Mugging thieved
Potting soil/t(o)(i)lth
Spooning tuck(er)ed/stacked

Damn, I forgot to make the initial sentence of this post short and generic, since it will be repeated. Alas.

"In Vest-Agder where I grew up, whole villages emigrated to America. Some of them came back. And it turned out that the ones who had forgotten their Norwegian had forgotten almost everything about their old home country. It's almost as though language preserves the memories.". Jo Nesbø, The Kingdom

Sounds about right, a near-complete language-culture shift brings a sort of amnesia, the untranslatables, for lack of useful relevance to tomorrow's needs.

diode (n.)
1919, in electricity, "tube with two electrodes," from Greek di- "twice" (from dis "twice," related to duo, from PIE root *dwo- "two") + hodos "a way, path, track, road," a word of uncertain origin (see Exodus).also from 1919

Entries linking to diode
*dwo-
Proto-Indo-European root meaning "two."

It forms all or part of: anadiplosis; balance; barouche; between; betwixt; bezel; bi-; binary; bis-; biscuit; combination; combine; deuce; deuterium; Deuteronomy; di- (1) "two, double, twice;" dia-; dichotomy; digraph; dimity; diode; diphthong; diploid; diploma; diplomacy; diplomat; diplomatic; diplodocus; double; doublet; doubloon; doubt; dozen; dual; dubious; duet; duo; duodecimal; duplex; duplicate; duplicity; dyad; epididymis; hendiadys; pinochle; praseodymium; redoubtable; twain; twelfth; twelve; twenty; twi-; twice; twig; twilight; twill; twin; twine; twist; 'twixt; two; twofold; zwieback.

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit dvau, Avestan dva, Greek duo, Latin duo, Old Welsh dou, Lithuanian dvi, Old Church Slavonic duva, Old English twa, twegen, German zwei, Gothic twai "two;" first element in Hittite ta-ugash "two years old."

Exodus
late Old English, the second book of the Old Testament, from Latin exodus, from Greek exodos "a military expedition; a solemn procession; departure; death," literally "a going out," from ex "out" (see ex-) + hodos "a way, path, road; a ride, journey, march," figuratively "way out, means," a word of uncertain origin. The book is so called because it tells of the departure of the Israelites from Egypt under the leadership of Moses. General sense (with lower-case -e-) "departure from a place," especially "the migration of large bodies of people or animals from one country or region to another," is from 1620s.

Beekes derives the Greek word from PIE *sod- "course" and says it is traditionally connected with Slavic words for "course" (such as Russian xod "course, progress," "which might have been borrowed from Iranian") and adds that it is perhaps also related to Sanskrit a-sad- "to tread on, go on," Avestan apa-had- "to go away; become weak," "but the relation between them is unclear, as is the connection to the PIE root *sed- "sit" (proposed in Watkins, etc.)."
~ Hodos xod a-sad apa-had sed <~ xyuatl

Wadi @ Arb: waterway, dry wash, (natural) course
<= (Xyuamb) uatl (achyah) >
Atl @ Azt: water
Xyua(mb)uatl -> shower, lluvia
Aqueous uisgi

On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 11:11:09 PM UTC-7, Daud Deden wrote:
> Zuber @Grm: (2-handled) tub
> Zuber kupharigolu cwrgwl coracle topa teba
>
> 2 handles/slots evolved from divots/holes dug under walls to enable
> airflow but prevent vermin when it became better sealed to the forest
floor yet allowed quick domeshield egress/tilting, later adapted into the
> basket frame for easy carrying.

Mouth physiology of earlier hominids might be an issue.

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:40:46 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 11:11:09 PM UTC-7, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Zuber @Grm: (2-handled) tub
> > Zuber kupharigolu cwrgwl coracle topa teba
> >
> > 2 handles/slots evolved from divots/holes dug under walls to enable
> > airflow but prevent vermin when it became better sealed to the forest
> floor yet allowed quick domeshield egress/tilting, later adapted into the
> > basket frame for easy carrying.
> Mouth physiology of earlier hominids might be an issue.

Yes, but the lack of fossilized soft tissues leave us guessing at the differences between species of pre- Homo sapiens features. Reduction of canine teeth, size & enamel thickness of molars vary between species, u or v oral vault, laryngeal air sacs (apes, Lucy) ... Influenced by climate, arid vs humid, cold vs tropical, group sizes, tech evolution...

Great apes make new arboreal bowl nests nightly, I think our lineage inverted these into terrestrial domes of wicker & broad leaves, transportable and used as shields during daytime, shelters during nighttime, possibly as far back as Danuvius 11.6ma Bavaria.

Mongolu @Mbuti: dome hut of wicker & broad leaves (earlier than grass huts)
Harigolu @ South India: coracle, bowl boat
Hari @ Mly: day; matahari sun; arimao tiger
Kufa @Arb: coracle of Tigris, Euphrates
Khudru @Tibet: bowl boat, hide boat
Teba @Hbr: ark, basket
Topa @Hindi: coracle
Zuber @Grm: 2-hand tub
Cover.t vs over.t, zuber vs uber, gopherwood biblical

Did archaic Homo bring their domeshields inside caves or use them as doors/gates, or traps?
Did neanderthals switch to cave dwelling, using sc.rolled skins/pelts/vellum sleeping bags?

https://psyarxiv.com/ygdum/

PAPER IN REVIEW Evolutionary phonetics: Review and synthesis

Axel G. Ekström1*, Steven Moran2,3, & Jens Edlund1341Division of Speech, Music & Hearing, KTH Royal Institute of Technology Institute of Biology, University of Neuchâtel63Department of Anthropology, University of Miami

Keywords: Evolution of speech, Articulatory phonetics, Speech acoustics, Animal vocalization, Phonology

Abstract.
Phonetics, the science of human speechsounds, has a rich history informed by both 14humanistic and natural sciences. Across societies, typically developing humans speak and 15exhibit universal patterns of speech-centric activity. Paradoxically, however, much of evolutionary language science hasexcludedor reduced language’s primary medium, often at the expense of significant potential progress. The purpose of this review is twofold: to review 18major research efforts by phoneticians with bearing on the evolution of spoken language; and 19to outline future directions for an evolutionary science of communicative acoustics.

Introduction
Speech is the primary medium of human languageand is practiced in everyday life by all 24typically developing humans.Given this unparalleled ubiquity, it is surprising that theories of 25language evolution routinely fail to acknowledge or incorporate central findings from the study 26of human speech. The purpose of this review is to presentthe core findings of past and ongoing efforts and to contrast these contributions of language evolution with other prevalent theories. 28The perhaps most prevalent description of speech is the source-filter theory, which models 29speech as composed of two largely independent entities, the voice “source”, from the vocal 30
of the larynx, and the supralaryngeal vocal tract “filter” of that signal, where a range of 31articulatory gestures are affected that change the resonances of the vocal tract (Fant, 1960).32The voice source serves as the physiological origin of fundamental frequency, perceived as 33voice or pitch by human listeners. The range of speech signals, vowel and consonant phonemes are created in the filter, by the imposition of narrow constrictions inside the supralaryngeal vocal tract using one or more articulators, including the velum, lips, and tongue. Evolutionary perspectives on frequency Comparative laryngologist Victor Negus (1949) traced the origin of the mammalian phonatory organs to the “primitive” lungfish, whereaprecursor of the larynx served as a sphincter to close off the “lungs” (swimbladder)when immersed in water. A series of mutations and adaptations through the process of natural selection gave rise to the combined body of cartilage and muscle that constitute the modern larynx. The behavioral basis for mammalian phonation, too, is likewise phylogenetically ancient. Panksepp (2010) speculated that the first uses of voiced calls were those of pain, and of distressed infants,uttered when separated from their mothers; soon after, calls may have beencoopted for deterring predators. Such uses remain ubiquitous across mammalsto this day, including in humans (Anikinet al., 2017). Indeed, a strong tradition of research has centered on purported conceptual relationships between higher frequencies and “smallness”, and lower frequencies and “bigness”. Sound symbolism –the nonarbitrary mapping of between sounds of speech and features they describe –has a long history in 49phonetics and linguistics(e.g. Ohala, 1984; Sapir, 1929) and the notion is still quite alive (Ekström, 2022; Lockwood & Dingemanse, 2015

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 4:27:57 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:40:46 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 11:11:09 PM UTC-7, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > Zuber @Grm: (2-handled) tub
> > > Zuber kupharigolu cwrgwl coracle topa teba
> > >
> > > 2 handles/slots evolved from divots/holes dug under walls to enable
> > > airflow but prevent vermin when it became better sealed to the forest
> > floor yet allowed quick domeshield egress/tilting, later adapted into the
> > > basket frame for easy carrying.
> > Mouth physiology of earlier hominids might be an issue.
> Yes, but the lack of fossilized soft tissues leave us guessing at the differences between species of pre- Homo sapiens features. Reduction of canine teeth, size & enamel thickness of molars vary between species, u or v oral vault, laryngeal air sacs (apes, Lucy) ... Influenced by climate, arid vs humid, cold vs tropical, group sizes, tech evolution...
>
> Great apes make new arboreal bowl nests nightly, I think our lineage inverted these into terrestrial domes of wicker & broad leaves, transportable and used as shields during daytime, shelters during nighttime, possibly as far back as Danuvius 11.6ma Bavaria.
>
> Mongolu @Mbuti: dome hut of wicker & broad leaves (earlier than grass huts)
> Harigolu @ South India: coracle, bowl boat
> Hari @ Mly: day; matahari sun; arimao tiger
> Kufa @Arb: coracle of Tigris, Euphrates
> Khudru @Tibet: bowl boat, hide boat
> Teba @Hbr: ark, basket
> Topa @Hindi: coracle
> Zuber @Grm: 2-hand tub
> Cover.t vs over.t, zuber vs uber, gopherwood biblical
>
> Did archaic Homo bring their domeshields inside caves or use them as doors/gates, or traps?
> Did neanderthals switch to cave dwelling, using sc.rolled skins/pelts/vellum sleeping bags?

Cup coop.er.ate corporate corroberate couple.t kwekwel
Quaffe cafe
Kom @ODut: cup, bowl

To home/hone in on a target

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/hone-in-or-home-in

'Hone in' is an "eggcorn" [mispronunciation] of 'home in' (re. homing pigeons)

Same pattern in language, human cells & marine biomass.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/catalog-human-cells-math-pattern

cell number is determined by cell division, a process that, when it goes haywire, leads to cancer. Understanding basic features of cells like size and number, Hatton says, “could help us understand abnormalities.”

Even though it’s been seen in language, ocean biomass and now human cells, the origins of the inverse size-number pattern are still a puzzle. But Hatton says its commonality “might be implying that there’s some deep, underlying mechanism that could be common to all these different things. But we’re not there yet

On 20/09/2023 5:22 a.m., sci.lang wrote:
> Same pattern in language, human cells & marine biomass.
>
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/catalog-human-cells-math-pattern
>
> cell number is determined by cell division, a process that, when it goes haywire, leads to cancer. Understanding basic features of cells like size and number, Hatton says, “could help us understand abnormalities.”
>
> Even though it’s been seen in language, ocean biomass and now human cells, the origins of the inverse size-number pattern are still a puzzle. But Hatton says its commonality “might be implying that there’s some deep, underlying mechanism that could be common to all these different things. But we’re not there yet
>

I doubt that it will turn out to be some deep cosmic principle.

In the language case ("Zipf's Law"), the correlation is driven by a
small number (50? 100?) of grammatical words which are extremely
frequent. You need one or more of these pretty much every time you open
your mouth. Grammatical words get reduced through sound change at a rate
higher than the general vocabulary. Just a matter of efficiency. They
convey information, but there are so few that you can get away with
reducing their distinctive phonetic features. (This happens even more
extremely with those that cease to be separate words and become affixes,
which are often single segments.)
You can see this happening in speeded-up time in the history of
Melanesian Pidgin ( > Creole), where belong > blong > bl- (possessive)
or by-and-by > bambai > ba (future), all within a century or so.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 7:45:34 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 20/09/2023 5:22 a.m., sci.lang wrote:
> > Same pattern in language, human cells & marine biomass.
> >
> > https://www.sciencenews.org/article/catalog-human-cells-math-pattern
> >
> > cell number is determined by cell division, a process that, when it goes haywire, leads to cancer. Understanding basic features of cells like size and number, Hatton says, “could help us understand abnormalities.”
> >
> > Even though it’s been seen in language, ocean biomass and now human cells, the origins of the inverse size-number pattern are still a puzzle. But Hatton says its commonality “might be implying that there’s some deep, underlying mechanism that could be common to all these different things. But we’re not there yet
> >
> I doubt that it will turn out to be some deep cosmic principle.
>
> In the language case ("Zipf's Law"), the correlation is driven by a
> small number (50? 100?) of grammatical words which are extremely
> frequent. You need one or more of these pretty much every time you open
> your mouth. Grammatical words get reduced through sound change at a rate
> higher than the general vocabulary. Just a matter of efficiency. They
> convey information, but there are so few that you can get away with
> reducing their distinctive phonetic features. (This happens even more
> extremely with those that cease to be separate words and become affixes,
> which are often single segments.)
> You can see this happening in speeded-up time in the history of
> Melanesian Pidgin ( > Creole), where belong > blong > bl- (possessive)
> or by-and-by > bambai > ba (future), all within a century or so.

Thanks. I'm willing to suspend judgement on whether some cosmic principle is involved, perhaps spatial/temporal geometry. Melanesian pidgins developed during a massive technological changeover due to alien influences which were themselves speeded up. This happened globally, though not as obvious elsewhere.

Human cells, human language, and ancient derivation of our tetrapod ancestors from the ocean may have established via biological evolution an unconscious pattern of social behaviour (including cellular behaviour & communication), particularly regarding tendencies towards greater efficiencies.

Drifting along...

If grammatical words tend to shrink, they presumably disappear in some cases.

Quorum sensing occurs when a few isolated individuals merge into groups and then develop into specialized castes, eg. Strep bacteria in the mouth form a plaque on teeth, the inner layer germs become different from the outer layer germs. This may be universal.

Spanish a/to, y/and, o/or have shrunk to single vowels, are heavily used.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 7:45:34 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 20/09/2023 5:22 a.m., sci.lang wrote:
> > Same pattern in language, human cells & marine biomass.
> >
> > https://www.sciencenews.org/article/catalog-human-cells-math-pattern
> >
> > cell number is determined by cell division, a process that, when it goes haywire, leads to cancer. Understanding basic features of cells like size and number, Hatton says, “could help us understand abnormalities.”
> >
> > Even though it’s been seen in language, ocean biomass and now human cells, the origins of the inverse size-number pattern are still a puzzle. But Hatton says its commonality “might be implying that there’s some deep, underlying mechanism that could be common to all these different things. But we’re not there yet
> >
> I doubt that it will turn out to be some deep cosmic principle.
>
> In the language case ("Zipf's Law"), the correlation is driven by a

Zipf's Law has always seemed to me to be a total tautology.

And when I read George Miller's preface to the MIT reprint for
the first time recently, I found he seems to say the same thing.

> small number (50? 100?) of grammatical words which are extremely
> frequent. You need one or more of these pretty much every time you open
> your mouth. Grammatical words get reduced through sound change at a rate
> higher than the general vocabulary. Just a matter of efficiency. They
> convey information, but there are so few that you can get away with
> reducing their distinctive phonetic features. (This happens even more
> extremely with those that cease to be separate words and become affixes,
> which are often single segments.)
> You can see this happening in speeded-up time in the history of
> Melanesian Pidgin ( > Creole), where belong > blong > bl- (possessive)
> or by-and-by > bambai > ba (future), all within a century or so.

On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 10:36:10 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 7:45:34 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 20/09/2023 5:22 a.m., sci.lang wrote:
> > > Same pattern in language, human cells & marine biomass.
> > >
> > > https://www.sciencenews.org/article/catalog-human-cells-math-pattern
> > >
> > > cell number is determined by cell division, a process that, when it goes haywire, leads to cancer. Understanding basic features of cells like size and number, Hatton says, “could help us understand abnormalities..”
> > >
> > > Even though it’s been seen in language, ocean biomass and now human cells, the origins of the inverse size-number pattern are still a puzzle. But Hatton says its commonality “might be implying that there’s some deep, underlying mechanism that could be common to all these different things. But we’re not there yet
> > >
> > I doubt that it will turn out to be some deep cosmic principle.
> >
> > In the language case ("Zipf's Law"), the correlation is driven by a
> Zipf's Law has always seemed to me to be a total tautology.
>
> And when I read George Miller's preface to the MIT reprint for
> the first time recently, I found he seems to say the same thing.
> > small number (50? 100?) of grammatical words which are extremely
> > frequent. You need one or more of these pretty much every time you open
> > your mouth. Grammatical words get reduced through sound change at a rate
> > higher than the general vocabulary. Just a matter of efficiency. They
> > convey information, but there are so few that you can get away with
> > reducing their distinctive phonetic features. (This happens even more
> > extremely with those that cease to be separate words and become affixes,
> > which are often single segments.)
> > You can see this happening in speeded-up time in the history of
> > Melanesian Pidgin ( > Creole), where belong > blong > bl- (possessive)
> > or by-and-by > bambai > ba (future), all within a century or so.

https://phys.org/news/2023-09-common-statistical-principles-scaling-nature.html

Oldest structure? Kalambo falls, Zambia: 476ka spearfishing platform? Or Lincoln Logs cabin??

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-discover-worlds-oldest-wooden-structure/

My response: They were seasonally nomadic, as I've always said. They did not move camp every day or week. Every year they would move back around old sites, this gave flora and fauna there time to reproduce & grow.

Article says 'large logs' but those are small logs from small adult trees, not large logs from giant trees of the forest.

Must have been a seasonal flood that buried it., silt washed down onto it and clogged.

No crocs near that site above the Kalambo Falls, afaik, only below the Falls.

The modern human population with the oldest genome are the 400ka Mbo, now in Nigeria-Cameroon iirc.
Kala-Mbo?
Mbo means mother in some African tongues.
I don't know the etymology of "kalambo".
My guess:
kala ~ kara @Turkish: black
kala ~ gelap @Mly: dark
kala ~ covered @Egl cf wombelly?
+ mbo mother-parent-ancestor
ebu @Flores, Indon : ancestor
ebu @Bajau : ancestor

The Amerindians around Seattle WA built platforms to spear migrating salmon.

Terra Amata is another claimed ancient structure, a hut with 2 columns and supporting beam.

Pseudograins

Despite its name, buckwheat is not closely related to wheat. It is not a cereal, nor is it even a member of the grass family. Buckwheat is related to sorrel, knotweed, and rhubarb, and is known as a pseudocereal because its seeds' culinary use is the same as cereals, owing to their high starch content.

Etymology

The name "buckwheat" or "beech wheat" comes from its tetrahedral seeds, which resemble the much larger seeds of the beech nut from the beech tree, and the fact that it is used like wheat. The word may be a translation of Middle Dutch boecweite: boec "beech" (Modern Dutch beuk; see PIE *bhago-) and weite "wheat" (Mod. Dut. tarwe, antiquated weit), or maybe a native formation on the same model as the Dutch word.[4]

On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:13:23 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Pseudograins
>
> Despite its name, buckwheat is not closely related to wheat. It is not a cereal, nor is it even a member of the grass family. Buckwheat is related to sorrel, knotweed, and rhubarb, and is known as a pseudocereal because its seeds' culinary use is the same as cereals, owing to their high starch content.
>
> Etymology
>
> The name "buckwheat" or "beech wheat" comes from its tetrahedral seeds, which resemble the much larger seeds of the beech nut from the beech tree, and the fact that it is used like wheat. The word may be a translation of Middle Dutch boecweite: boec "beech" (Modern Dutch beuk; see PIE *bhago-) and weite "wheat" (Mod. Dut. tarwe, antiquated weit), or maybe a native formation on the same model as the Dutch word.[4]

Pseudonuts

Are Cashews Nuts?
Cashews are grouped with tree nuts but also share characteristics with legumes and seeds. They grow on cashew trees, inside a kidney-shaped drupe. The tree produces a fleshy, pear-shaped stalk called a cashew apple on its branches. Yet, this part of the plant isn’t the fruit.

Instead, the true fruit is a smaller, kidney-shaped structure that grows underneath the cashew apple, also known as a drupe. Inside the fruit is where you find the edible seed that most people know as a cashew nut (2Trusted Source).

Thus, because of the plant’s structural configuration, the edible portion of a cashew is botanically classified as a drupe seed.

The seed and its outer shell are technically considered both the nut and the fruit, but the shell is inedible due to the presence of a toxic substance.. This is why you only ever see shelled cashews at your local market (2Trusted Source).

SUMMARY
Cashews are botanically classified as seeds because they grow inside the cashew fruit, which is also known as a drupe.

Comparison with legumes
Though cashews are drupe seeds, they’re sometimes confused with legumes.

Legumes are also plants that produce edible seeds, but they typically grow alongside other seeds within a single pod. As the plant matures, the pod eventually splits down the middle, freeing the edible seeds inside.

Beans and peas are among the most common types of legumes, but peanuts are a great example of a “nut” that’s really a legume. Much like peanuts, cashews can be easily split down the middle (3Trusted Source).

However, because cashews develop in a hard shell within a drupe instead of a pod, they aren’t considered part of the legume family.

SUMMARY
Cashews are structurally similar to legumes like peanuts. Yet, due to the way they grow, they’re not considered part of the legume family.

Culinary classification
Technically, cashews are not nuts, but they’re often classified as such. That’s because they share many nutritional and culinary attributes with other true nuts like hazelnuts and chestnuts.

Oddly enough, many of the most popular “nuts” aren’t true nuts either. Walnuts, almonds, pistachios, and pecans are also seeds of drupes — just like cashews (5Trusted Source).

On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 10:42:30 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:13:23 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Pseudograins
> >
> > Despite its name, buckwheat is not closely related to wheat. It is not a cereal, nor is it even a member of the grass family. Buckwheat is related to sorrel, knotweed, and rhubarb, and is known as a pseudocereal because its seeds' culinary use is the same as cereals, owing to their high starch content.
> >
> > Etymology
> >
> > The name "buckwheat" or "beech wheat" comes from its tetrahedral seeds, which resemble the much larger seeds of the beech nut from the beech tree, and the fact that it is used like wheat. The word may be a translation of Middle Dutch boecweite: boec "beech" (Modern Dutch beuk; see PIE *bhago-) and weite "wheat" (Mod. Dut. tarwe, antiquated weit), or maybe a native formation on the same model as the Dutch word.[4]
> Pseudonuts
>
> Are Cashews Nuts?
> Cashews are grouped with tree nuts but also share characteristics with legumes and seeds. They grow on cashew trees, inside a kidney-shaped drupe. The tree produces a fleshy, pear-shaped stalk called a cashew apple on its branches. Yet, this part of the plant isn’t the fruit.
>
> Instead, the true fruit is a smaller, kidney-shaped structure that grows underneath the cashew apple, also known as a drupe. Inside the fruit is where you find the edible seed that most people know as a cashew nut (2Trusted Source).
>
> Thus, because of the plant’s structural configuration, the edible portion of a cashew is botanically classified as a drupe seed.
>
> The seed and its outer shell are technically considered both the nut and the fruit, but the shell is inedible due to the presence of a toxic substance. This is why you only ever see shelled cashews at your local market (2Trusted Source).
>
> SUMMARY
> Cashews are botanically classified as seeds because they grow inside the cashew fruit, which is also known as a drupe.
>
> Comparison with legumes
> Though cashews are drupe seeds, they’re sometimes confused with legumes.
>
> Legumes are also plants that produce edible seeds, but they typically grow alongside other seeds within a single pod. As the plant matures, the pod eventually splits down the middle, freeing the edible seeds inside.
>
> Beans and peas are among the most common types of legumes, but peanuts are a great example of a “nut” that’s really a legume.. Much like peanuts, cashews can be easily split down the middle (3Trusted Source).
>
> However, because cashews develop in a hard shell within a drupe instead of a pod, they aren’t considered part of the legume family.
>
> SUMMARY
> Cashews are structurally similar to legumes like peanuts. Yet, due to the way they grow, they’re not considered part of the legume family.
>
> Culinary classification
> Technically, cashews are not nuts, but they’re often classified as such. That’s because they share many nutritional and culinary attributes with other true nuts like hazelnuts and chestnuts.
>
> Oddly enough, many of the most popular “nuts” aren’t true nuts either. Walnuts, almonds, pistachios, and pecans are also seeds of drupes — just like cashews (5Trusted Source).

The English name derives from the Portuguese name for the fruit of the cashew tree: caju (Portuguese pronunciation: [kaˈʒu]), also known as acaju, which itself is from the Tupian word acajú, literally meaning "nut that produces itself".[1][2]

Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:
>German: immer (room is zimmer)

German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
German word "innen"? Those too have no relation with Zimmer
whatsoever. Just none.

>Sri Lanka Singhalese: daram (tent = kudaram)

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >German: immer (room is zimmer)
> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> German word "innen"?

No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear to fit with zimmer. But not in this case.
Thanks for checking.

Those too have no relation with Zimmer
> whatsoever. Just none.
> >Sri Lanka Singhalese: daram (tent = kudaram)
> --
> Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:

>On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
>>Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>><daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>German: immer (room is zimmer)
>>
>>German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
>>Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
>>German word "innen"?

BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
"during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.

("interior; inside; inner")

Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
"home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
& buiten.)

tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
(the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
<https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>

*

immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
(in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).

Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).

(Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
< Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
of house constructions or structures.)

>No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
>to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.

It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
immers- (-e; -ion).

Tim

On 2023-09-23, Tim Lang <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>>>German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
>>>Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
>>>German word "innen"?
>
> BTW: inner is German as well;

Oh, this is weird. "Inner" is an adjective that can only appear
in attributive position, which is why Duden.de lists it by the
complex headword "innere, innerer, inneres". The predicative form
is "innen". Dictionaries list "innen" as an adverb, though.

English "inner" can only be used attributively as well, and they
both came about as comparatives of an old adverb "inne".

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >
> >>Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >><daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>>German: immer (room is zimmer)
> >>
> >>German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> >>Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> >>German word "innen"?
> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
>
> ("interior; inside; inner")
>
> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> & buiten.)
>
> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
>
> *
>
> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
>
> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
>
> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> of house constructions or structures.)
> >No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> >to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> immers- (-e; -ion).
>
> Tim

Thanks.
Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
Kamara @Grk: vault

(Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar

I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:

Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
(Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle

Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?

DD

On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
>>>>
>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
>>>> German word "innen"?
>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
>>
>> ("interior; inside; inner")
>>
>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
>> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
>> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
>> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
>> & buiten.)
>>
>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
>> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
>>
>> *
>>
>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
>>
>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
>>
>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
>> of house constructions or structures.)
>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
>> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
>> immers- (-e; -ion).
>>
>> Tim
>
> Thanks.
> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> Kamara @Grk: vault
>
> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
>
> I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
>
> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
>
> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
>
> DD
>
>

Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
from the prolific *gen- root)

Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
(ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> >> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
> >>>>
> >>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> >>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> >>>> German word "innen"?
> >> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> >> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> >> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
> >>
> >> ("interior; inside; inner")
> >>
> >> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> >> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> >> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> >> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> >> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> >> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> >> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> >> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> >> & buiten.)
> >>
> >> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> >> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> >> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
> >> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> >> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
> >>
> >> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> >> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
> >>
> >> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> >> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> >> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> >> of house constructions or structures.)
> >>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> >>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> >> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> >> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> >> immers- (-e; -ion).
> >>
> >> Tim
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> > Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> > Kamara @Grk: vault
> >
> > (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> > Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> > Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
> >
> > I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
> >
> > Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> > Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> > (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
> >
> > Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
> >
> > DD
> >
> >
> Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
> from the prolific *gen- root)
>
> Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
> (ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')

Thanks. I didn't know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.

Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante- {pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps from a different dialect source.