Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
Could you install Mode C transponders in club aircraft? There are many used ones for sale cheap. Not as good overall as ADSB, but a lot cheaper, and it'd keep the passenger aircraft away. My Mode C job works well for me - no airliners nearby since I installed one about 15 years ago.
Eric

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:53:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> Could you install Mode C transponders in club aircraft? There are many used ones for sale cheap. Not as good overall as ADSB, but a lot cheaper, and it'd keep the passenger aircraft away. My Mode C job works well for me - no airliners nearby since I installed one about 15 years ago.
> Eric
Eric, we could, but that would not solve the problem. The technology is out there, it is proven, it is affordable, and would provide a much better safety net than a mode c. The problem is that the FAA has required the ADSB to be a permanent installation. Why is a portable unit not acceptable, probably because the ADSB is used as an enforcement tool. Would it not provide a more safe environment if a driver received a warning through his fancy glass screen rather than by ATC advising. Take a look at the portable unit, it could fill the need of general aviation such as gliders, paragliders, hang gliders, gyro craft, and a lot more. Remember the Cessna Caravan that clobbered the paraglider in Texas, that could have been avoided with a simple portable ADSB. OBTP

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP

I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

Tom 2G

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
>
> Tom 2G
Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> >
> > Tom 2G
> Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?

For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > >
> > > Tom 2G
> > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
>
> For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.

I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.

I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:03:42 PM UTC-4, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > >
> > > > Tom 2G
> > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> >
> > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude.. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
>
> I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
Dan, you are 100% correct, one guy wrote me and stated that TCAS protects all of us, I almost soiled my pants laughing so hard. The technology is there, proven and available, why not make it acceptable. ADSB is registered by aircraft, owner, type, and much more, not thinking out of the box and adopting a portable unit is not doing many forms of general aviation and service.. Installing mode c transponders in a 2-33 or a 1-26, or other training type aircraft is not feasible for many operations, including ours.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:03:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > >
> > > > Tom 2G
> > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> >
> > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude.. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
>
> I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
" Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider." Mode C has been easily and successfully "crammed" into a lot of gliders over the last 20. It's not much harder than putting in a radio of the same vintage, which almost every glider has.. The main issue is the additional power consumption, but with today's LFP batteries, that can be supplied easily, too.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:50:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:03:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> > >
> > > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> > I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
> >
> > I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
> " Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider." Mode C has been easily and successfully "crammed" into a lot of gliders over the last 20. It's not much harder than putting in a radio of the same vintage, which almost every glider has. The main issue is the additional power consumption, but with today's LFP batteries, that can be supplied easily, too.
Eric, you are smarter than that, wake up and smell the coffee. The Transponder is not likely to save you from the most obvious collision target. When pilots are glued to their glass screens, and not watching yet just waiting for that ADSB signal the TCAS does not exist in their equipment, where was the TCAS when the jet came within 25 feet of my wing??? I was squalking on the TXP, yet his reply stated that he had no warning. OBTP

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 4:28:01 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail..com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:50:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:03:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > > > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> > > >
> > > > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> > > I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
> > >
> > > I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
> > " Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider." Mode C has been easily and successfully "crammed" into a lot of gliders over the last 20. It's not much harder than putting in a radio of the same vintage, which almost every glider has. The main issue is the additional power consumption, but with today's LFP batteries, that can be supplied easily, too.
> Eric, you are smarter than that, wake up and smell the coffee. The Transponder is not likely to save you from the most obvious collision target. When pilots are glued to their glass screens, and not watching yet just waiting for that ADSB signal the TCAS does not exist in their equipment, where was the TCAS when the jet came within 25 feet of my wing??? I was squalking on the TXP, yet his reply stated that he had no warning. OBTP
I don't claim a Mode C transponder is a perfect shield against collisions with airplanes, but I do claim it's a lot better than no transponder. Glider pilots have used Mode C (and Mode S) transponders for at least 20 years in high traffic areas like Minden, and they work. My personal experience was I no longer saw airliners, bizjets, and military aircraft close to me after I installed my Mode C transponder.

I don't know what happened with you and the jet, but you don't how many close encounters were avoided because your towplane DID have a transponder. Don't let the dream of low-cost perfection (SkyEcho) keep you and your clubmates from preventing potential accidents now.

Hey Boober,
Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
Old Bob, Tiny Penis

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 6:48:22 AM UTC-6, Gary Emerson wrote:
> Hey Boober,
> Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
> Old Bob, Tiny Penis

Let the battle begin.......
This one has the hallmarks of a classic!

I also must support the value of a Mode S transponder.
I had many uncomfortably close calls with Reno traffic when flying around Minden.
Even had an Air Force refueling tanker drop out of the cloud deck on top of me once.
Then I installed a Mode S transponder and that all ended.
All the power planes stayed away and Reno traffic control could route traffic away from me and provide warnings to aircraft.
In ten years of flying I only ran out of primary battery after five hours and I have a back-up battery.

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:48:22 AM UTC-4, Gary Emerson wrote:
> Hey Boober,
> Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
> Old Bob, Tiny Penis
Look Richard Noggig, or I should I just call you Dickhead? I have negotiated wit the FAA, been on more than one zoom meeting, what have you done? You probably sit on your liberal ass in some liberal out west hovel looking for some crack to smoke. Old Bob, The Purist

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 12:38:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:48:22 AM UTC-4, Gary Emerson wrote:
> > Hey Boober,
> > Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
> > Old Bob, Tiny Penis
> Look Richard Noggig, or I should I just call you Dickhead? I have negotiated wit the FAA, been on more than one zoom meeting, what have you done? You probably sit on your liberal ass in some liberal out west hovel looking for some crack to smoke. Old Bob, The Purist

Richard, don't pay any attention to Boobie - he calls everyone who disagrees with him a "dickhead" and/or a "liberal." These rants are typical of a DSM-5 candidate.

Tom 2G

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> >
> > Tom 2G
> Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST

Boobbie, I am WELL AWARE of the difference between a transponder and ADS-B: I have BOTH in my glider. And you DO NOT get a "special transponder code" that is invisible to tracking - if you have it on it WILL be tracked AND visible to websites such as FlightAware and FlightRadar24.

BTW, you meant "ensure", NOT "insure"

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 4:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 12:38:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:48:22 AM UTC-4, Gary Emerson wrote:
> > > Hey Boober,
> > > Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
> > > Old Bob, Tiny Penis
> > Look Richard Noggig, or I should I just call you Dickhead? I have negotiated wit the FAA, been on more than one zoom meeting, what have you done? You probably sit on your liberal ass in some liberal out west hovel looking for some crack to smoke. Old Bob, The Purist
> Richard, don't pay any attention to Boobie - he calls everyone who disagrees with him a "dickhead" and/or a "liberal." These rants are typical of a DSM-5 candidate.
>
> Tom 2G
Terrible Tommy, you need to quit stealing my material, I was the one who identified you as the DSM-5 personality, come up with your own material. OBTP

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 4:50:55 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > >
> > > Tom 2G
> > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> Boobbie, I am WELL AWARE of the difference between a transponder and ADS-B: I have BOTH in my glider. And you DO NOT get a "special transponder code" that is invisible to tracking - if you have it on it WILL be tracked AND visible to websites such as FlightAware and FlightRadar24.
>
> BTW, you meant "ensure", NOT "insure"
Terrible Tommy, it is so good to be back at home feeling better and getting into your head. Yes, I do have a special transponder code. Let me help you out here, go to either of those tracking formats that you mentioned and tell me about the flights of N7463Z. I'll give you a hint, the transponder is on for every flight. OBTP

On 9/28/2023 3:03 PM, Dan Kvinge wrote:
>
> I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
>
> I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
>

Yeah, in this realm, as they say, "the perfect is the enemy of the
good". The low-power ADS-B-out devices, approved by other countries,
would add an affordable and practical safety option here in the US. I
think the SSA should use its clout (such as it is) to ask the FAA to
allow the use of such devices. The 200-watt transponders are a relic of
ancient tech and way overkill these days.

On 9/29/2023 4:50 PM, 2G wrote:
> ...
> BTW, you meant "ensure", NOT "insure"

Ensure: take steps to prevent bad thing from happening.

Insure: they'll pay you some money if bad thing happens.

Assure: talk down the possibility of bad thing happening.

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:36:04 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail..com wrote:
> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 4:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 12:38:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:48:22 AM UTC-4, Gary Emerson wrote:
> > > > Hey Boober,
> > > > Thanks for coming to RAS to whine about your situation vs doing something useful like trying to work with the FAA and negotiate real change. You must be a socialist democrat. Help me oh great government, I won't spend my money to install the proper equipment that is recommended, I'm just here to whine about why you won't give me what I want and take care of me.
> > > > Old Bob, Tiny Penis
> > > Look Richard Noggig, or I should I just call you Dickhead? I have negotiated wit the FAA, been on more than one zoom meeting, what have you done? You probably sit on your liberal ass in some liberal out west hovel looking for some crack to smoke. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Richard, don't pay any attention to Boobie - he calls everyone who disagrees with him a "dickhead" and/or a "liberal." These rants are typical of a DSM-5 candidate.
> >
> > Tom 2G
> Terrible Tommy, you need to quit stealing my material, I was the one who identified you as the DSM-5 personality, come up with your own material. OBTP

WOW! I didn't know that you wrote the DSM-5 - I'm IMPRESSED! Thanks for bringing up what you so closely identify with.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:03:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > >
> > > > Tom 2G
> > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> >
> > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude.. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
>
> I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.

This is just another red herring by Boobie. This is from uAvionix' website:

SkyEcho is NOT approved for use in the United States.
For U.S. applications, see Sentry by ForeFlight

And there is a link to:
https://flywithsentry.com/

Tom 2G

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:14:45 PM UTC-4, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 9/29/2023 4:50 PM, 2G wrote:
> > ...
> > BTW, you meant "ensure", NOT "insure"
> Ensure: take steps to prevent bad thing from happening.
>
> Insure: they'll pay you some money if bad thing happens.
>
> Assure: talk down the possibility of bad thing happening.
Thanks Moshe, just a slip of the finger. OBTP

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 10:58:33 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 12:03:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Kvinge wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:29:27 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 AM UTC-7, youngbl....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:55:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:32:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Having been heavily involved with the NMAC's between towplane and jet traffic, it seems to me that doing nothing to secure the safety of aviation is being overlooked.
> > > > > > Most of us at some time or another have seen traffic up close, too close for comfort. Our area consist of heavy traffic ranging from flight training schools to scheduled heavy jet traffic. Our club was successful in developing a program through a LOA to communicate with WPA, and KVRB when operating gliders. This program has helped in regard to instrument traffic being advised of gliders operating, and local traffic being advised through ATIS.
> > > > > > The problem still exist as most training and private jet traffic operators are too busy looking at those fancy glass screens instead of making note of traffic upon visual approach.
> > > > > > Why hasn't the FAA endorsed the portable ADSB units that are accepted in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand? The success of the portable ADSB unit in those countries has led to increased safety. A portable unit like the SkyEcho, from uAvioni could be a gamechanger for general aviation. Sailplanes would benefit along with many other forms of aviation. The ability to carry a portable unit with a 50 mile range could have and will save lives.
> > > > > > Glider clubs all over the country would benefit, the cost reduction vs an installed unit would be substantial. OBTP
> > > > > I have commented in the past that you DO NOT have an operating transponder, and certainly not ADS-B, in your own tow plane. You replied that you have this LOA; note to the uninformed, that an LOA is a PIECE OF PAPER, not an anti-collision instrument. Maybe you have installed this equipment since then; if so, then disregard this post; if you haven't then INSTALL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom 2G
> > > > Terrible Tommy, the transponder has been installed in the Pawnee, you went bananas when you could not track the Pawnee out of California, remember??? Our code is a special transponder code that was initiated by the FAA for the purpose of tracking our operations . You seem to be ignorant of the difference between transponder and ADSB as you should certainly know the operating and informative differences. My point is that there is technology available today that would insure greater aviation safety at a greatly reduced cost that could be made available but is not being allowed because of big brother, I guess that is our only point of agreement.
> > > > Making a small unit like Skyecho would and could be a game changer for many areas of aviation as I have previously pointed out, my point is the FAA should get into the ball game and allow the codes from the portable units to be received and transmitted through the ADSB system. My question would be is this something that cannot be done or is it something that they just don't want to do because of the portability. OLD BOB, THE PURIST
> > > How many gliders are flying out of Hibiscus without a transponder or ADSB? Why don't those pilots install at least a Mode C transponder? Why aren't you encouraging them to do so?
> > >
> > > For the price of a SkyEcho, a pilot flying from Hibiscus can likely have a good used Mode C transponder installed. Collision protection now, no waiting for the FAA to agree with you.
> > I definitely agree with Bob on this. The low-power portable ADSB-out devices are perfect for gliders, 95% of whom never go into controlled airspace. uAvionix makes many ADSB-out devices that work perfectly without a transponder for broadcasting ADSB position continuously. Some also have transponders built into them and those typically have ADSB-in via GDL-90 format that Foreflight and other software can decode and display. Some are meant for drones but would also work perfectly for gliders with their light weight and very low power needs. They report both GPS position and barometric altitude. Mode C transponder also doesn't seem very realistic for cramming into a limited space and limited power glider.
> >
> > I am amazed and so disappointed that the FAA doesn't approve these devices as UK, NZ and AU have done. Those countries have a program called Electronic Conspicuity, and their full focus is on how to make planes more easily visible, using the readily available technology of today, not from 20 years ago.
> This is just another red herring by Boobie. This is from uAvionix' website:
>
> SkyEcho is NOT approved for use in the United States.
> For U.S. applications, see Sentry by ForeFlight
>
> And there is a link to:
> https://flywithsentry.com/
>
> Tom 2G
Terrible Tommie, does Sentry give you ADSB out? I will let you answer that question then follow up. OBTP