Hi all,

I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
time which could be better spent doing other things.
I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
I experience.

Thanks,

CD.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>I experience.
>
>Thanks,
>
>CD.

The Rigol scopes are excellent. And you can run a fan or charge your
phone from the front-panel USB connector.

The Siglent power stuff seems good too.

Extech DVMs seem good too.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 12:38:09 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>I experience.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>CD.
>
>The Rigol scopes are excellent. And you can run a fan or charge your
>phone from the front-panel USB connector.
>
>The Siglent power stuff seems good too.
>
>Extech DVMs seem good too.

I have not heard a bad word said about Rigol scopes yet. Siglent do
some interesting RF stuff at competetive prices, assuming the
quality's good (again, not heard anything to the contrary).

On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>I experience.
>
>Thanks,
>
>CD.

My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
Made a new graticule.
So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
Things last forever here...
Scope used on a regular basis..
RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
Digital meters used every day.
Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
What more do you need?
Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
Not much pocket mony as a kid.
UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
But it does not help you one bit.
Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 07:01:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>I experience.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>CD.
>
>My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
>Made a new graticule.
>So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>Things last forever here...
>Scope used on a regular basis..
>RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>Digital meters used every day.
>Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>What more do you need?
>Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>But it does not help you one bit.
>Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>

I don't think any of us here truly understand what electrons do, Jan!
Boat anchors don't impress anyone nowadays; they're more likely to
make one look like some sort of oddball mad scientist who couldn't get
laid. ;-)
I'm guessing you don't have a TV. Would I be right?

On a sunny day (Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:39:59 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <j6sk0j5cpqb46pt9tg6uvji35a2bstb9o8@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 07:01:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>I experience.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>CD.
>>
>>My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other
>>channel.
>>Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>Made a new graticule.
>>So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>Things last forever here...
>>Scope used on a regular basis..
>>RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>Digital meters used every day.
>>Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>What more do you need?
>>Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>But it does not help you one bit.
>>Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>
>
>I don't think any of us here truly understand what electrons do, Jan!
>Boat anchors don't impress anyone nowadays; they're more likely to
>make one look like some sort of oddball mad scientist who couldn't get
>laid. ;-)
>I'm guessing you don't have a TV. Would I be right?

I learned the basics of how electrons behave and move as a small kid from this book:
https://www.boekenwebsite.nl/techniek/zowerkt-de-radio
'That is how radio works'
He also wrote
that is how TV works
and
That is how the transistor works.
I remember walking the streets of Amsterdam looking for usable parts for my own TV in primary school
Tried to make an OLED TV too.

In high-school were I build an tube amplifier for the school band
I got an old tube CRT from a TV shop.
Made an HV generator using a car ignition coil on the output of an old EL84 audio amp,
made that amp oscillate by feeding back some output to the input.
The output of the ignition coil rectified by an old TV HV diode
Horizontal deflection coils on same amp
Vertical defection coils on an other audio amp.
That was my first scope.
Not very high frequency..
Had a transistor FM transmitter of my own design working too,
we had a radio program!
As to understand electrons START THERE
That is what it is all about.
That is how I started as a kid, books from Van Aisberg
Later when studying electronics I got some old tube TV, and gradually replaced each part with transistors
rewound horizontal output transformer, build a new tuner.
By that time Elector magazine published the 'teletor'
https://archive.org/details/elektuur-36-1965-11_20200524
used some ideas from that and had my first transistor TV, mine was MUCH bigger had a real CRT.
In 1968 designed my own TV vidicon camara, left my current design job and started in broadcasting, hired on the spot,
6 month payed training in the school banks all about broadcasting all about television
Many years nothing but film, TV and audio, video recording, satellite, slow motion, video editing, running a TV studio, what not
So, you could f*cking learn a bit
Yes I have a nice Samsung TV and a portable one too.
I can build one from scrap in no time, but the digital decoders these days need a chip
but I can code that too.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/

I like to open source things, worked in all sort of science fields electronics is used for,
from medical to space to army to navy to broadcasting, been there done it
Electrons try to understand, math is just about quantities and breaks down anyways as mamaticians will do a divide by zero
and claim a new reality.
EInsteinianism is brain dead.
hehe

PS I had a TV repair shop in Amsterdam for many years (see it is also going to ..repair)

..

Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>> I experience.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> CD.
>
> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
> the table (scope stands on the ground)
> Made a new graticule.
> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
> Things last forever here...
> Scope used on a regular basis..
> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
> Digital meters used every day.
> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
> What more do you need?
> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
> But it does not help you one bit.
> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>
>
>

Many wise words there.

Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
unhelpful software.

--
piglet

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>I experience.
>
>Thanks,
>
>CD.

If you only use it on weekends, you'll probably continue to have
problems - even if it's only remembering how the equipment is
supposed to work.

You'll find that it's connectors, batteries, heaters, indicators,
software and personal safety equipment that wear out most frequently.
If your test gear includes any of these, maintain them regularly to
avoid disappointment.

If you find that you are missing something that you need, address
THAT issue.

RL

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 11:36:48 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:39:59 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <j6sk0j5cpqb46pt9tg6uvji35a2bstb9o8@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 07:01:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>I experience.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>CD.
>>>
>>>My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other
>>>channel.
>>>Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>Made a new graticule.
>>>So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>Things last forever here...
>>>Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>Digital meters used every day.
>>>Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>What more do you need?
>>>Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>>Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>But it does not help you one bit.
>>>Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>
>>I don't think any of us here truly understand what electrons do, Jan!
>>Boat anchors don't impress anyone nowadays; they're more likely to
>>make one look like some sort of oddball mad scientist who couldn't get
>>laid. ;-)
>>I'm guessing you don't have a TV. Would I be right?
>
>I learned the basics of how electrons behave and move as a small kid from this book:
> https://www.boekenwebsite.nl/techniek/zowerkt-de-radio
> 'That is how radio works'
>He also wrote
> that is how TV works
>and
> That is how the transistor works.
>I remember walking the streets of Amsterdam looking for usable parts for my own TV in primary school
>Tried to make an OLED TV too.
>
>In high-school were I build an tube amplifier for the school band
>I got an old tube CRT from a TV shop.
>Made an HV generator using a car ignition coil on the output of an old EL84 audio amp,
>made that amp oscillate by feeding back some output to the input.
>The output of the ignition coil rectified by an old TV HV diode
>Horizontal deflection coils on same amp
>Vertical defection coils on an other audio amp.
>That was my first scope.
>Not very high frequency..
>Had a transistor FM transmitter of my own design working too,
>we had a radio program!
>As to understand electrons START THERE
>That is what it is all about.
>That is how I started as a kid, books from Van Aisberg
>Later when studying electronics I got some old tube TV, and gradually replaced each part with transistors
>rewound horizontal output transformer, build a new tuner.
>By that time Elector magazine published the 'teletor'
> https://archive.org/details/elektuur-36-1965-11_20200524
> used some ideas from that and had my first transistor TV, mine was MUCH bigger had a real CRT.
>In 1968 designed my own TV vidicon camara, left my current design job and started in broadcasting, hired on the spot,
>6 month payed training in the school banks all about broadcasting all about television
>Many years nothing but film, TV and audio, video recording, satellite, slow motion, video editing, running a TV studio, what not
>So, you could f*cking learn a bit
>Yes I have a nice Samsung TV and a portable one too.
>I can build one from scrap in no time, but the digital decoders these days need a chip
>but I can code that too.
> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
>
>I like to open source things, worked in all sort of science fields electronics is used for,
>from medical to space to army to navy to broadcasting, been there done it
>Electrons try to understand, math is just about quantities and breaks down anyways as mamaticians will do a divide by zero
>and claim a new reality.
>EInsteinianism is brain dead.
>hehe
>
>PS I had a TV repair shop in Amsterdam for many years (see it is also going to ..repair)
>
>.

Jan, do you have a 'toy' budget?

Most new stuff (that might actually save time or work
better than home brew) seems to fall into that category.

RL

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC), piglet
<erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>> I experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> CD.
>>
>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>> Made a new graticule.
>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>> Things last forever here...
>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>> Digital meters used every day.
>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>> What more do you need?
>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>> But it does not help you one bit.
>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Many wise words there.
>
>Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>unhelpful software.

A color digital scope is fabulous. It can measure volts and time and
frequency, save and analyze waveforms, display pre-trigger, and you
can lift one with one hand. And the traces are in color!

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:15:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC), piglet
><erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>> Made a new graticule.
>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>> Things last forever here...
>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>> What more do you need?
>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Many wise words there.
>>
>>Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>>what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>>unhelpful software.
>
>A color digital scope is fabulous. It can measure volts and time and
>frequency, save and analyze waveforms, display pre-trigger, and you
>can lift one with one hand. And the traces are in color!

I know they have their advantages, but they can also tell lies by
showing glitches in waveforms that are internally generated by the
scope rather than the DUT. For such occasions, it can be very useful
to keep an old analogue scope. I've got 13 of 'em!

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:37:49 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:15:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC), piglet
>><erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> CD.
>>>>
>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>> What more do you need?
>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Many wise words there.
>>>
>>>Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>>>what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>>>unhelpful software.
>>
>>A color digital scope is fabulous. It can measure volts and time and
>>frequency, save and analyze waveforms, display pre-trigger, and you
>>can lift one with one hand. And the traces are in color!
>
>I know they have their advantages, but they can also tell lies by
>showing glitches in waveforms that are internally generated by the
>scope rather than the DUT.

I've never seen that. Aliasing is obvious.

>For such occasions, it can be very useful
>to keep an old analogue scope. I've got 13 of 'em!

I have several oldn Taks on carts, as antiques, but I never expect to
power them up again.

We do have a bunch of 11801 samplers that still work. They are all
solid-state except for the raster-scan CRT.

john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:37:49 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:15:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC), piglet
>>> <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>
>>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>>> What more do you need?
>>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter,
>>>>> still stuff worked.
>>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many wise words there.
>>>>
>>>> Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>>>> what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>>>> unhelpful software.
>>>
>>> A color digital scope is fabulous. It can measure volts and time and
>>> frequency, save and analyze waveforms, display pre-trigger, and you
>>> can lift one with one hand. And the traces are in color!
>>
>> I know they have their advantages, but they can also tell lies by
>> showing glitches in waveforms that are internally generated by the
>> scope rather than the DUT.
>
> I've never seen that. Aliasing is obvious.
>

Some instruments do kick crap out of their inputs. I have an otherwise very
nice Krohn-Hite tunable filter box that is hard to use because of its
terrible kickout.

Scopes generally don’t do that, because there are vertical amps and
attenuators in the way.

However, you do need to understand a little bit about how sampling works.
For instance, say you’re looking at a noisy signal. You want to see some
more detail, so you start cranking the horizontal scale knob to the right.
Everything looks fine until you get past the maximum sampling rate.

The scale keeps getting finer, but the display breaks up completely,
turning into a lot of nearly vertical lines. Of course that’s because it’s
gone from real-time to equivalent-time sampling, but it’s puzzling the
first time you see it. (To the analog-only folks: ET is useful, but
requires careful attention to triggering and averaging. )

In general, 1980-2005ish vintage boat anchors really rock, but you have to
get the best. Just yesterday I bought a Tek TDS 684C—1 GHz BW, 4 GS/s
simultaneously on all four channels, with fabulous knob response. It was
$300, about 1.5 cents on the dollar versus new.

When I was at IBM, bought one brand new in the late 90s (probably $20k) and
used it for nearly everything.

>
>> For such occasions, it can be very useful
>> to keep an old analogue scope. I've got 13 of 'em!
>
> I have several oldn Taks on carts, as antiques, but I never expect to
> power them up again.
>
> We do have a bunch of 11801 samplers that still work. They are all
> solid-state except for the raster-scan CRT.
>
>
I’m a big fan of those too, and use them often. I have a very nearly
complete collection of sampling and O/E heads, too—just missing the SD-32
50 GHz sampler.

Right now I’m working on a lab amplifier, based on three paralleled
SAV-331+ pHEMTs. Characterizing its noise performance is turning out to be
a bit of a puzzle, despite a pile of top-of-the-line boat anchors, but I’ll
keep that for its own thread.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

On a sunny day (Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC)) it happened piglet
<erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in <uue84s$2fnab$1@dont-email.me>:

>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>> I experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> CD.
>>
>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>> Made a new graticule.
>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>> Things last forever here...
>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>> Digital meters used every day.
>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>> What more do you need?
>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>> But it does not help you one bit.
>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Many wise words there.
>
>Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>unhelpful software.

That is why I still use an analog scope
it is old, it is big, but it does not lie.

I build a 300 MHz analog one long time ago,
but then moved to far away and donated all stuff,
including my guitar and trumpet .. amplifiers, audio and video tape recorders, records, TV, radio, what not.

And then many years later when back in the Netherlands started accumulating stuff again, now have boxes full of electronics
and a nice musical keyboard to play with.
For me it all is a learning experiment / experience.
Maybe some code I wrote or some circuit I designed helped somebody, cool.
I never use much math, a tennis player does not use math to see where the ball will go (wind speed, mass of ball, force of backhand, angles,
would take ages.
It is all in my neural net, electronics
And somehow everything works.
Maybe some small building blocks, circuits that I then combine, ever newer ones being accumulated trying out things.
I did some neural net programming years ago, good chance Ai can beat us in a while.
It can already do that in the medical field
But it does not stop at electronics for me, I am very interested in the things it is used for,
been working in many fields fixing and designing electronics.
What you learn in one you can sometimes use in the other.

On a sunny day (Mon, 01 Apr 2024 08:29:00 -0400) it happened legg
<legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in <pq9l0j51r2l1cshv8mokqldq7pj0grd467@4ax.com>:

>Jan, do you have a 'toy' budget?
>
>Most new stuff (that might actually save time or work
>better than home brew) seems to fall into that category.

No idea what you mean by that.
What are you doing and what do you want to accomplish?

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 09:56:33 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:37:49 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 09:15:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC), piglet
>>>> <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>>>> What more do you need?
>>>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter,
>>>>>> still stuff worked.
>>>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Many wise words there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>>>>> what is being measured and don?t hide things away with abstraction and
>>>>> unhelpful software.
>>>>
>>>> A color digital scope is fabulous. It can measure volts and time and
>>>> frequency, save and analyze waveforms, display pre-trigger, and you
>>>> can lift one with one hand. And the traces are in color!
>>>
>>> I know they have their advantages, but they can also tell lies by
>>> showing glitches in waveforms that are internally generated by the
>>> scope rather than the DUT.
>>
>> I've never seen that. Aliasing is obvious.
>>
>
>Some instruments do kick crap out of their inputs. I have an otherwise very
>nice Krohn-Hite tunable filter box that is hard to use because of its
>terrible kickout.
>
>Scopes generally don’t do that, because there are vertical amps and
>attenuators in the way.
>
>However, you do need to understand a little bit about how sampling works.
>For instance, say you’re looking at a noisy signal. You want to see some
>more detail, so you start cranking the horizontal scale knob to the right.
>Everything looks fine until you get past the maximum sampling rate.
>
>The scale keeps getting finer, but the display breaks up completely,
>turning into a lot of nearly vertical lines. Of course that’s because it’s
>gone from real-time to equivalent-time sampling, but it’s puzzling the
>first time you see it. (To the analog-only folks: ET is useful, but
>requires careful attention to triggering and averaging. )
>
>In general, 1980-2005ish vintage boat anchors really rock, but you have to
>get the best. Just yesterday I bought a Tek TDS 684C—1 GHz BW, 4 GS/s
>simultaneously on all four channels, with fabulous knob response. It was
>$300, about 1.5 cents on the dollar versus new.

You've seen my SDxx sampling head collection. Must have been worth
$250K new, twice that adjusted for inflation.

>
>When I was at IBM, bought one brand new in the late 90s (probably $20k) and
>used it for nearly everything.
>
>>
>>> For such occasions, it can be very useful
>>> to keep an old analogue scope. I've got 13 of 'em!
>>
>> I have several oldn Taks on carts, as antiques, but I never expect to
>> power them up again.
>>
>> We do have a bunch of 11801 samplers that still work. They are all
>> solid-state except for the raster-scan CRT.
>>
>>
>I’m a big fan of those too, and use them often. I have a very nearly
>complete collection of sampling and O/E heads, too—just missing the SD-32
>50 GHz sampler.

Some day my 11802 will die. I'll mourn it.

>
>Right now I’m working on a lab amplifier, based on three paralleled
>SAV-331+ pHEMTs. Characterizing its noise performance is turning out to be
>a bit of a puzzle, despite a pile of top-of-the-line boat anchors, but I’ll
>keep that for its own thread.

The old HP analog noise figure meters got way sub 1 dB, with some sort
of lock-in technique.

I remember some germanium jfets that got below 1 dB at low MHz (for a
Raydist navigation receiver, pre-GPS) and was astounded.

Come to think of it, I slightly helped get GPS started. That's another
story.

On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 10:10:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:09:00 -0000 (UTC)) it happened piglet
><erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in <uue84s$2fnab$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>> Made a new graticule.
>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>> Things last forever here...
>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>> What more do you need?
>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Many wise words there.
>>
>>Boat anchors can still be great as they require you to understand better
>>what is being measured and don’t hide things away with abstraction and
>>unhelpful software.
>
>That is why I still use an analog scope
>it is old, it is big, but it does not lie.
>
>I build a 300 MHz analog one long time ago,
>but then moved to far away and donated all stuff,
>including my guitar and trumpet .. amplifiers, audio and video tape recorders, records, TV, radio, what not.
>
>And then many years later when back in the Netherlands started accumulating stuff again, now have boxes full of electronics
>and a nice musical keyboard to play with.
>For me it all is a learning experiment / experience.
>Maybe some code I wrote or some circuit I designed helped somebody, cool.
>I never use much math, a tennis player does not use math to see where the ball will go (wind speed, mass of ball, force of backhand, angles,
>would take ages.
>It is all in my neural net, electronics
>And somehow everything works.
>Maybe some small building blocks, circuits that I then combine, ever newer ones being accumulated trying out things.
>I did some neural net programming years ago, good chance Ai can beat us in a while.
>It can already do that in the medical field
>But it does not stop at electronics for me, I am very interested in the things it is used for,
>been working in many fields fixing and designing electronics.
>What you learn in one you can sometimes use in the other.

We still have one Tek 7104 (1 GHz microchannel analog scope) that
works. One of my guys likes it.

On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>> I experience.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> CD.
>
> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
> Made a new graticule.
> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
> Things last forever here...
> Scope used on a regular basis..
> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
> Digital meters used every day.
> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
> What more do you need?
> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
> But it does not help you one bit.
> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>

Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.

On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:55:40 +0200) it happened Klaus Vestergaard
Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote in <uultes$iq0n$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>> I experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> CD.
>>
>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with it, fixed it locating the problem with the other
>> channel.
>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from the table (scope stands on the ground)
>> Made a new graticule.
>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>> Things last forever here...
>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>> Digital meters used every day.
>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>> What more do you need?
>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>> But it does not help you one bit.
>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>
>
>Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.

When a kid you could test if the 4.5 V battery was empty with your tongue
(nowadays likely forbidden to do that ;-)

It is all relative
In the frequency domain the rtl-sdr sticks I have are 1 ppm.
I do have a 10 MHz Rubidium frequency reference, was cheap, from ebay
that I can use for frequency stuff so as to lock the xtal oscillator in my satellite LNB
that has around 10 GHz in and 1 GHz out, into that RTL-SDR stick, was good enough
for SSB reception (so a few hundred Hz accuracy) on QO100
https://panteltje.nl/pub/octagon_twin_LNB_OTLSO_inside_RT320M_PLL_IMG_6538.JPG
replaced that crystal in the LNB on the right by 24 Mhz external reference locked to the 10 MHz Rubidium reference
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ethernet_controlled_LNB_reference_cicuit_diagram_IMG_6848.JPG
about 1 GHz LNB output to the rtl-sdr stick, so now have a 10 GHz spectrum analyzer.. few Hz precision...
Even without the Rubidium lock:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/even_cheap_LNBs_can_receive_ESHAIL2_IMG_6775.JPG

Cost, a few Euro, cheap LNBs are 5 dollar on ebay, but have no xtal oscillator but some ceramic resonator so drift a lot, too much for SSB,
but still useful for watching spectra...

signal generator:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#freq_pi

frequency counter;
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/freq_pic/index.html
cost < 10 Euro

Its easy,..

Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>> I experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> CD.
>>
>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>> Made a new graticule.
>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>> Things last forever here...
>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>> Digital meters used every day.
>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>> What more do you need?
>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>> But it does not help you one bit.
>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>
>
> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>
>

It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.

It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
important test instrument is the one between your ears.

In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
are now.

But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
over the best stethoscope guy.

And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
to a 10-MHz
scope with scale marks in cuneiform.

Good boat anchors make capability like that very affordable. My lab is full
of top-of-the-line gear (over $2M at list price), for which I’ve paid about
2-3 cents on the dollar. (Not counting a few very helpful donations early
on.) Of course I have some good newer stuff, such as a two-channel arb, a
NanoVNA2, and a logic analyzer with protocol decoding.

It’s a bit old-school-looking, so it doesn’t impress visitors unless they
actually know something, and that suits me perfectly well.

But by all means don’t buy any, so it’ll keep being cheap for me. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:56:23 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>> Made a new graticule.
>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>> Things last forever here...
>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>> What more do you need?
>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>
>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>
>>
>
>It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
>electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
>is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.
>
>It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
>important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>
>In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
>are now.
>
>But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
>over the best stethoscope guy.
>
>And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
>to a 10-MHz
>scope with scale marks in cuneiform.

We have a product in development, a new digital delay generator, that
had too many picoseconds of excess, erratic jitter. Turns out that the
50 MHz LC oscillator squeggs at about 6 GHz, which I guess is my
fault. We found that with a spectrum analyzer, not a scope.

My new oscillator, using a BUF602 as the gain element, looks good.
Jitter is under 10 ps RMS at 5 usec out, which is great for a
triggered LC.

The Rigol scopes are pretty good frequency counters too. Mine hasn't
been calibrated in maybe 5 years, and I checked it against a 10 MHz
GPS, and it's perfect, given its 1 PPM resolution.

On 4/4/2024 7:56 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>> Made a new graticule.
>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>> Things last forever here...
>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>> What more do you need?
>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>
>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>
>>
>
> It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
> electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
> is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.
>
> It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
> important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>
> In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
> are now.
>
> But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
> over the best stethoscope guy.
>
> And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
> to a 10-MHz
> scope with scale marks in cuneiform.
>
> Good boat anchors make capability like that very affordable. My lab is full
> of top-of-the-line gear (over $2M at list price), for which I’ve paid about
> 2-3 cents on the dollar. (Not counting a few very helpful donations early
> on.) Of course I have some good newer stuff, such as a two-channel arb, a
> NanoVNA2, and a logic analyzer with protocol decoding.
>
> It’s a bit old-school-looking, so it doesn’t impress visitors unless they
> actually know something, and that suits me perfectly well.
>
> But by all means don’t buy any, so it’ll keep being cheap for me. ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>

My most useful old machine dollar for dollar is my 8012B pulse generator!

<https://imgur.com/a/2GaSZVq>

$50 "not working." It was just a burned-out pilot lamp and dirty controls.

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
> On 4/4/2024 7:56 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> CD.
>>>>
>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>> What more do you need?
>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter,
>>>> still stuff worked.
>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then
>>>> when I somehow got the parts
>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
>> electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
>> is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.
>>
>> It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
>> important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>>
>> In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
>> are now.
>>
>> But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
>> over the best stethoscope guy.
>>
>> And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
>> to a 10-MHz
>> scope with scale marks in cuneiform.
>>
>> Good boat anchors make capability like that very affordable. My lab is full
>> of top-of-the-line gear (over $2M at list price), for which I’ve paid about
>> 2-3 cents on the dollar. (Not counting a few very helpful donations early
>> on.) Of course I have some good newer stuff, such as a two-channel arb, a
>> NanoVNA2, and a logic analyzer with protocol decoding.
>>
>> It’s a bit old-school-looking, so it doesn’t impress visitors unless they
>> actually know something, and that suits me perfectly well.
>>
>> But by all means don’t buy any, so it’ll keep being cheap for me. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>
> My most useful old machine dollar for dollar is my 8012B pulse generator!
>
> <https://imgur.com/a/2GaSZVq>
>
> $50 "not working." It was just a burned-out pilot lamp and dirty controls.
>

I used to have an 8013B, which is the dual channel version.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

On 5/04/2024 2:04 am, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:56:23 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>>> I experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> CD.
>>>>
>>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>>> blew up a channal once myself in the first week
>>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>>> Made a new graticule.
>>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>>> Things last forever here...
>>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>>> What more do you need?
>>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
>> electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
>> is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.
>>
>> It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
>> important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>>
>> In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
>> are now.
>>
>> But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
>> over the best stethoscope guy.
>>
>> And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
>> to a 10-MHz
>> scope with scale marks in cuneiform.
>
> We have a product in development, a new digital delay generator, that
> had too many picoseconds of excess, erratic jitter. Turns out that the
> 50 MHz LC oscillator squeggs at about 6 GHz, which I guess is my
> fault. We found that with a spectrum analyzer, not a scope.
>
> My new oscillator, using a BUF602 as the gain element, looks good.
> Jitter is under 10 ps RMS at 5 usec out, which is great for a
> triggered LC.

But it's rubbish for a free-running oscillator

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7331424

https://spectrum.ieee.org/for-precision-the-sapphire-clock-outshines-even-the-best-atomic-clocks

You need a system architecture that can exploit a free running clock. I
came up with one that worked in 1988, and I'm sure that there are others.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:56:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<uum4h6$kmdl$1@dont-email.me>:

>Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 01-04-2024 09:01, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:41:18 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <9k7j0jlnbhs8qfg5m17pium0835meean83@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having my test equipment blow up
>>>> just when it's needed. This is the drawback with vintage gear; if it's
>>>> not used frequently then it can go *bang* the next time you switch it
>>>> on. It makes for good practice in repairing stuff, but wastes a lot of
>>>> time which could be better spent doing other things.
>>>> I think it's time I modernised my test gear. I was just wondering if
>>>> anyone has any recommendations they can share. Is there a particular
>>>> piece of test equipment you couldn't live without? Something you're
>>>> particularly impressed with? I'd be interested to know so I can
>>>> perhaps acquire said item and thereby reduce the number of explosions
>>>> I experience.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> CD.
>>>
>>> My 10 MHz Trio dual trace analog scope is from 1979 or there about, I
>>> blew up a channel once myself in the first week
>>> when I accidently touched a booster diode in a TV I was repairing with
>>> it, fixed it locating the problem with the other channel.
>>> Later I cracked the graticule when a soldering station fell on it from
>>> the table (scope stands on the ground)
>>> Made a new graticule.
>>> So, and still working perfectly, OK for all things I build with micros.
>>> For RF to about 1.6 GHz I use RTL_SDR USB sticks and the spectrum analyzer I wrote.
>>> and for AC DC measurements I have some made in China digital meters and an analog one.
>>> also a Voltcraft clamp-on meter for current when you do not - or cannot
>>> interrupt things with the meter impedance.
>>> Also have a Voltcraft soldering station.
>>> Blew up one of my digital meters a while back (volts on the resistance
>>> scale) but fixed it again (replaced resistor).
>>> Many other test equipment I designed and build, like amplifiers LF and
>>> RF, SWR meter, radiation meters, gamma spectrometer,
>>> GHz stuff for satelite, transmitters low and very high power, what not,
>>> a frequency converter to use the RTL-SDR sticks and so the spectrum
>>> analyzer on higher and lower frequencies.
>>> Have a SARK100 SWR analyzer too.
>>> Things last forever here...
>>> Scope used on a regular basis..
>>> RTL-SDR stick 24/7.
>>> Digital meters used every day.
>>> Use my self designed lab power supply every day..
>>> What more do you need?
>>> Learn to use the stuff, understand what's important, and that is it
>>> When I started in electronics as a kid I did not even _have_ a meter, still stuff worked.
>>> Build my own scope at some point back then when I somehow got the parts
>>> Not much pocket mony as a kid.
>>> UNDERSTAND your systems, what electrons do.
>>> Showing of with boat anchors may impress people, especially the clueless...
>>> But it does not help you one bit.
>>> Anything with an accuracy better than 1 percent in most cases is just
>>> like apes screaming load trying to impress other apes.
>>>
>>
>> Very true about specifically the 1% statement. Sidebar, at an earlier
>> employment, we needed to equip a new lab. Guys wanted GHz scopes. When
>> asked if the ever looked at edges faster than 1ns, no one did.
>>
>>
>
>It’s true that there are a lot of relatively undemanding jobs in
>electronics. You can get on fine with a 200-MHz scope if all you’re doing
>is PIC and Pi and ham radio and analog TV.

Bull,
I have been using my Trio 10 MHz dual channel for digital TV too
see
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
GHz output..

Its is about UNDERSTANDING the systems
You cannot repair a TV set in a short time if you do not UNDERSTAND every part of the circuit and its function, the whole system
neither with a 10 MHz or with a 10 GHz scope.
Fault finding had been my job most of the time, sometimes with 'the show must go on'
or rocket must launch or whatever.

In an environment a million times more complex than your back-room with boat anchors.
And always delivered.. unlike some that dropped out or broke down.
It is indeed about what is between the ears as you mentioned.

>It’s also true that you can often make do with what you have—the most
>important test instrument is the one between your ears.
>
>In the before times, doctors were much better with stethoscopes than they
>are now.
>
>But I’d sure prefer a cardiologist who could use tomography and ultrasound
>over the best stethoscope guy.

Only useful if you can read the screens, these days they train AI to find cancer in the scans.....
Yes I worked in an Uni hospital too.
How many people die each year because of medical errors?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
Remember Jim Thompson stating 'they are giving me ... but I had a warning I was not supposed to get that'
Few days later he was dead.

>And it’s a lot easier finding gigahertz oscillations if you aren’t limited
>to a 10-MHz
>scope with scale marks in cuneiform.

Giggle Hertz oscillations are not happening in LC circuits of specific kind
where those can happen you can figure from the parts used, no giggle Hz in a BC109.
look at the components used.
I worked on a missile launch system once that did strange things that were tracked down to an oscillating emitter follower...
Replacing that transistor by exactly the same part fixed it.. not one transistor is the same it seems, especially from different manufacturers..
but those were not very high frequency oscillations and I had a faster scope there.
In broadcast I ran around with a big Tec on a cart all day...
A TV studio complex and control is something vastly bigger than your back room.
https://www.mediapark.nl/
and every second counts
Yes without in depth knowledge of all that stuff you would not even know where to start .
And THAT in depth knowledge is the key.

>Good boat anchors make capability like that very affordable. My lab is full
>of top-of-the-line gear (over $2M at list price), for which I’ve paid about
>2-3 cents on the dollar. (Not counting a few very helpful donations early
>on.) Of course I have some good newer stuff, such as a two-channel arb, a
>NanoVNA2, and a logic analyzer with protocol decoding.
>
>It’s a bit old-school-looking, so it doesn’t impress visitors unless they
>actually know something, and that suits me perfectly well.
>
>But by all means don’t buy any, so it’ll keep being cheap for me. ;)

I won't, if I specifically want to KNOW some thing I build something for that purpose,
I better not ask if you per accident contributed to that F35 crap.
Anyways, carry on, makes me feel safer...

>Cheers

Do not drink when doing 'tronics