On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 1:24:56?PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >>> >
>> <snip>
>> >
>> > My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
>> > deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
>> > or competent.
>> Dr. John Campbell has been covering excess deaths for some time now.
>>
>> In this one he is using insurance actuarial date and our world in data.
>> (They're in the references whatever the actual sites are).
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOxhYyfYw4
>>
>> MP Andrew Bridgen in the UK was ejected from his party for talking about the
>> excess deaths in that Kingdom but is still an MP and still talks about it.
>>
>> It seems to be one of the elephants in the room these days.
>>
>> I think it's very telling to read the comments on his (Campbell's)
>> videos. While the problems people report post-vaccine are anecdotal, there
>> sure are a *lot* of them.
>>
>> I'm also following Phillip McMillan of Vejon Health youtube site.
>>
>> I'm afraid that there will be more the the ongoing mRNA experient, sad to
>> say.
>>
>> Returning to bicycle content now...
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>
>The Stupid 3 do not believe hard data means anything if it is delivered by a PhD in nursing. Only Anthony Fauci is authoritative enough for them. Yeah, the same Fauci that illegally paid China to develop a bioweapon via gain-of-function and then, again illegally, requested the President give emergency authorization to release untested vaccines in an entirely new format onto the public as an experimental platform. Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events that the ACTUAL number was 65% doesn't ring a bell with the Stupid 3 since they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of 0.001%. So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency authorization held
>accountable for what would be considered a public health threat.
>
>Even though it is a FACT that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent heart damage) the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent heart damage to children almost certainly. But wait a minute, the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most important medical universities in the world.
>
>An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available. So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died. But this administration has already shown a complete distain for American citizens of any ilk unless they monetarily support the Democrats.

Nope, you got it wrong. If you are talking about Dr. John Lorimer
Campbell when you say "if it is delivered by a PhD in nursing"

John Campbell has a diploma in nursing from the University of London,
a BSc in biology from the Open University, an MSc in health science
from the University of Lancaster, and a Ph.D. in nursing from the
University of Bolton which was awarded for "developing methods of
teaching via digital media such as online videos."

Does "methods of teaching via digital media" equate to knowledge of
medicine?
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:56:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 12/9/2023 10:23 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 19:14:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:19:54 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 17:35:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:59:14 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here that doughty, efficient and often successful fighter for
>>>>>>>>> free speech, Mark Steyn, explains the Post-COVID excess
>>>>>>>>> deaths around the world.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.steynonline.com/13963/the-known-unknowns
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once more we grasp that Tom was right from the
>>>>>>>>> beginning. Will you monkeys now apologise to Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>> Rolling on the floor laughing out loud at the RBT clowns
>>>>>>>>> being taken in by that conman Fauci.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou was just telling us that he doesn't like Trump because CNN
>>>>>>>> thinks he's a meany for cutting off their government subsidies
>>>>>>>> given to them by the Democrats so that they would report only
>>>>>>>> good things about Democrats. That's a lot more important to
>>>>>>>> him than 13% of his relatives dead because of a poisonous
>>>>>>>> vaccine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tommy, can you provide any proof of the excess Covid deaths that you
>>>>>>> keep going on about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't mean some idiot on you tube blathering on about something
>>>>>>> he/she/it really knows nothing about, but a proper scientific study by
>>>>>>> competent people of actual confirmed deaths due to the vaccination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mortality statistics tend to be a running tabulation of deaths, which
>>>>>> is usually a few months behind on publication and likely to require
>>>>>> continuous corrections. Lacking anything better, the WHO (world
>>>>>> health organization) is the best I can offer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)"
>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that excess death calculations rely on a dubious
>>>>>> assumption, that deaths from all causes other than Covid-19 remain
>>>>>> constant. That's hardly the case when the statistics gathering
>>>>>> organizations either shut down between 2020 and the end of 2022,
>>>>>> became heavily politicized, or faked their numbers to avoid a local
>>>>>> panic. There were other factors, like the shutdown of many hospital
>>>>>> services, which delayed many procedures. The lack of international
>>>>>> standards on collecting Covid-19 related data doesn't help much. If
>>>>>> you look at the graphs in the above URL, the lines between the upper
>>>>>> and lower uncertainty bounds are huge. In other words, the "data" is
>>>>>> really an estimate (or best guess).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the WHO graphs for just the USA:
>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-daily-economist-single-entity>
>>>>>> 95% uncertainty upper and 0% lower bounds are still widely separated.
>>>>>> For the USA, that's current +/- 1,000 deaths per week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
>>>>>>> deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
>>>>>>> or competent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, since Tom's reply is likely to be politicized, perhaps a
>>>>>> pre-emptive strike might be amusing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in
>>>>>> Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic" (July 24, 2023)
>>>>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617>
>>>>>> "In this cohort study evaluating 538,159 deaths in individuals aged 25
>>>>>> years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December
>>>>>> 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters
>>>>>> than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all
>>>>>> adults, but not before."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Translation: Vaccines don't kill Republicans. It's the lack of
>>>>>> vaccines that kill Republicans.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you are comparing Covid Deaths. Tom is talking about deaths due
>>>>> solely to having received a vaccination
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I missed that. As I understand it, the author is disappointed
>>>> that the Covid death rate failed to drop to the comparatively low
>>>> levels of pre-pandemic (before Jan 2023) incidence. Note the title,
>>>> which suggest uncertainty:
>>>> "An analysis of excess mortality based on age and sex; the possible
>>>> role of Covid-19, delayed care and vaccines"
>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herman-Steigstra/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines/links/655c7aecce88b87031fbc73a/An-analysis-of-excess-mortality-based-on-age-and-sex-the-possible-role-of-Covid-19-delayed-care-and-vaccines.pdf>
>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines>
>>>> (12 pages). Note that CBS is "Statistics Netherlands":
>>>> <https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb>
>>>>
>>>> I think the author answered his own question on Pg 4.
>>>> "In this graph, as an example, we see the baseline calculated for 2020
>>>> for both men and women. What is immediately striking is the sharp peak
>>>> among 75-year-olds. This is a consequence of the baby boom, the birth
>>>> wave in 1946 immediately after the Second World War."
>>>> In other words, he discovered that more men had died during WWII than
>>>> women, and that the baseline death rates are finally catching up with
>>>> the baby boomers. In other words, if he can't win at football, just
>>>> move the goal posts. Redefining the baseline death rates to fit his
>>>> conclusions is the equivalent to moving the goal posts.
>>>>
>>>> Most his contentions are summarized in one sentence on Pg 9:
>>>> "We see here clearly and unmistakably that there was more excess
>>>> mortality in all the years in which vaccination was carried out than
>>>> in the year without vaccination."
>>>> This is the basis of the authors uncertain conclusion that Covid was
>>>> gone by the end of 2022 which should have reduced the excess deaths,
>>>> but didn't. Never mind various Covid variants, long Covid, creative
>>>> fatality tracking, delayed medical care, and such, all of which
>>>> persist to this day in some degree.
>>>>
>>>> Pg 9 again: "The risk of mortality is increasing every year, while
>>>> there is hardly any corona anymore. There are obviously no complete
>>>> annual figures for 2023 yet, but the figures so far paint a picture
>>>> identical to 2022."
>>>> In other words, he admits to guessing based on incomplete statistics
>>>> and continues to adjust the baseline death rates to meet his
>>>> expectations. I would have been happier if he had used the baseline
>>>> numbers in the same manner as the WHO and other agencies, and then
>>>> applied his assumptions. Instead, he first adjusts his baseline
>>>> numbers to meet his expectations and then wonders why they still
>>>> didn't produce his expected results. Also, this is for only one
>>>> country and does not represent the situation in other countries.
>>>
>>> For Tom it doesn't matter whether it's the fox or the rabbit, Tommy is
>>> faster then either.
>>>
>>> In another post he has Bidden bombing the Nord Stream gas pipeline,
>>> which from all I read is totally without any proof at all, although
>>> there are rumors that it was a Ukraine plot... carried out by a group
>>> from, Poland :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You don't know that. Nor do I.
>>
>>A successful CIA or special services operation leaves hints
>>to a different conclusion such as 'Polish agents'.
>
> I don't know what? That there is, apparently, no proof who did it? Or
> that there is rumors that the Ukrainian did it?
>
> As for CIA operations leaving hints, I don't think so, at least not in
> many cases. The bombing of Indonesia, for example, the pilot that they
> caught was deliberately carrying identification in spite of orders NOT
> to do so. The U2 flights over Russia and Cuba? The Air America flights
> over Vietnam and Laos?
>
> Certainly the aircraft were Sterilized" so that the U.S. could
> officially deny they the were the culprits but nothing was done to
> imply that somebody else did the deed.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:35:05 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:56:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/9/2023 10:23 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 19:14:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:19:54 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 17:35:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:59:14 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here that doughty, efficient and often successful fighter for
>>>>>>>>>> free speech, Mark Steyn, explains the Post-COVID excess
>>>>>>>>>> deaths around the world.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.steynonline.com/13963/the-known-unknowns
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once more we grasp that Tom was right from the
>>>>>>>>>> beginning. Will you monkeys now apologise to Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>> Rolling on the floor laughing out loud at the RBT clowns
>>>>>>>>>> being taken in by that conman Fauci.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou was just telling us that he doesn't like Trump because CNN
>>>>>>>>> thinks he's a meany for cutting off their government subsidies
>>>>>>>>> given to them by the Democrats so that they would report only
>>>>>>>>> good things about Democrats. That's a lot more important to
>>>>>>>>> him than 13% of his relatives dead because of a poisonous
>>>>>>>>> vaccine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tommy, can you provide any proof of the excess Covid deaths that you
>>>>>>>> keep going on about?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't mean some idiot on you tube blathering on about something
>>>>>>>> he/she/it really knows nothing about, but a proper scientific study by
>>>>>>>> competent people of actual confirmed deaths due to the vaccination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mortality statistics tend to be a running tabulation of deaths, which
>>>>>>> is usually a few months behind on publication and likely to require
>>>>>>> continuous corrections. Lacking anything better, the WHO (world
>>>>>>> health organization) is the best I can offer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)"
>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is that excess death calculations rely on a dubious
>>>>>>> assumption, that deaths from all causes other than Covid-19 remain
>>>>>>> constant. That's hardly the case when the statistics gathering
>>>>>>> organizations either shut down between 2020 and the end of 2022,
>>>>>>> became heavily politicized, or faked their numbers to avoid a local
>>>>>>> panic. There were other factors, like the shutdown of many hospital
>>>>>>> services, which delayed many procedures. The lack of international
>>>>>>> standards on collecting Covid-19 related data doesn't help much. If
>>>>>>> you look at the graphs in the above URL, the lines between the upper
>>>>>>> and lower uncertainty bounds are huge. In other words, the "data" is
>>>>>>> really an estimate (or best guess).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the WHO graphs for just the USA:
>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-daily-economist-single-entity>
>>>>>>> 95% uncertainty upper and 0% lower bounds are still widely separated.
>>>>>>> For the USA, that's current +/- 1,000 deaths per week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
>>>>>>>> deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
>>>>>>>> or competent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, since Tom's reply is likely to be politicized, perhaps a
>>>>>>> pre-emptive strike might be amusing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in
>>>>>>> Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic" (July 24, 2023)
>>>>>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617>
>>>>>>> "In this cohort study evaluating 538,159 deaths in individuals aged 25
>>>>>>> years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December
>>>>>>> 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters
>>>>>>> than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all
>>>>>>> adults, but not before."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Translation: Vaccines don't kill Republicans. It's the lack of
>>>>>>> vaccines that kill Republicans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you are comparing Covid Deaths. Tom is talking about deaths due
>>>>>> solely to having received a vaccination
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, I missed that. As I understand it, the author is disappointed
>>>>> that the Covid death rate failed to drop to the comparatively low
>>>>> levels of pre-pandemic (before Jan 2023) incidence. Note the title,
>>>>> which suggest uncertainty:
>>>>> "An analysis of excess mortality based on age and sex; the possible
>>>>> role of Covid-19, delayed care and vaccines"
>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herman-Steigstra/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines/links/655c7aecce88b87031fbc73a/An-analysis-of-excess-mortality-based-on-age-and-sex-the-possible-role-of-Covid-19-delayed-care-and-vaccines.pdf>
>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines>
>>>>> (12 pages). Note that CBS is "Statistics Netherlands":
>>>>> <https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the author answered his own question on Pg 4.
>>>>> "In this graph, as an example, we see the baseline calculated for 2020
>>>>> for both men and women. What is immediately striking is the sharp peak
>>>>> among 75-year-olds. This is a consequence of the baby boom, the birth
>>>>> wave in 1946 immediately after the Second World War."
>>>>> In other words, he discovered that more men had died during WWII than
>>>>> women, and that the baseline death rates are finally catching up with
>>>>> the baby boomers. In other words, if he can't win at football, just
>>>>> move the goal posts. Redefining the baseline death rates to fit his
>>>>> conclusions is the equivalent to moving the goal posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most his contentions are summarized in one sentence on Pg 9:
>>>>> "We see here clearly and unmistakably that there was more excess
>>>>> mortality in all the years in which vaccination was carried out than
>>>>> in the year without vaccination."
>>>>> This is the basis of the authors uncertain conclusion that Covid was
>>>>> gone by the end of 2022 which should have reduced the excess deaths,
>>>>> but didn't. Never mind various Covid variants, long Covid, creative
>>>>> fatality tracking, delayed medical care, and such, all of which
>>>>> persist to this day in some degree.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pg 9 again: "The risk of mortality is increasing every year, while
>>>>> there is hardly any corona anymore. There are obviously no complete
>>>>> annual figures for 2023 yet, but the figures so far paint a picture
>>>>> identical to 2022."
>>>>> In other words, he admits to guessing based on incomplete statistics
>>>>> and continues to adjust the baseline death rates to meet his
>>>>> expectations. I would have been happier if he had used the baseline
>>>>> numbers in the same manner as the WHO and other agencies, and then
>>>>> applied his assumptions. Instead, he first adjusts his baseline
>>>>> numbers to meet his expectations and then wonders why they still
>>>>> didn't produce his expected results. Also, this is for only one
>>>>> country and does not represent the situation in other countries.
>>>>
>>>> For Tom it doesn't matter whether it's the fox or the rabbit, Tommy is
>>>> faster then either.
>>>>
>>>> In another post he has Bidden bombing the Nord Stream gas pipeline,
>>>> which from all I read is totally without any proof at all, although
>>>> there are rumors that it was a Ukraine plot... carried out by a group
>>>> from, Poland :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>You don't know that. Nor do I.
>>>
>>>A successful CIA or special services operation leaves hints
>>>to a different conclusion such as 'Polish agents'.
>>
>> I don't know what? That there is, apparently, no proof who did it? Or
>> that there is rumors that the Ukrainian did it?
>>
>> As for CIA operations leaving hints, I don't think so, at least not in
>> many cases. The bombing of Indonesia, for example, the pilot that they
>> caught was deliberately carrying identification in spite of orders NOT
>> to do so. The U2 flights over Russia and Cuba? The Air America flights
>> over Vietnam and Laos?
>>
>> Certainly the aircraft were Sterilized" so that the U.S. could
>> officially deny they the were the culprits but nothing was done to
>> imply that somebody else did the deed.
>
>Pulling crazy shit and then arranging the blame to fall on someone else
>is absolutely SOP for intelligence services. See for instance
>"Operation Gladio".

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
>>
>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.

>I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
>thing.

From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
"While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
suggested further research in that area."
He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
will be looking for a new job fairly soon.

For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
"several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
"Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
<https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
"There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
article expanded the difference to be:
"...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
control patients"
whatever that means.

>The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
>and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
>skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
>label outlived the truth.

Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
actually said was:
"I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
<https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/10/2023 8:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
>
> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zicGxU5MfwE

I suppose one can be very creative in interpreting whatever the hell he
actually meant. If he actually knew.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 5:04:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> >
> > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > any.
> >
> > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > cause and effect:
> > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > vaccine caused the event."
> > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> >
> >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> >
> > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > dropping like flied.
> >
> >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > 0.001%.
> >
> > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> >
> >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> >> public health threat.
> >
> > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> >
> >> Even though it is a FACT
> >
> > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > unlikely to be a fact.
> >
> >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> >> heart damage)
> >
> > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination."
> > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> >
> >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> >
> > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > that.
> >
> >> But wait a minute,
> >
> > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> >
> >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> >> important medical universities in the world.
> >
> > Got an example of these large studies?
> >
> >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available.
> >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> >
> > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> >
> > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> >
> >
> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> thing.
>
> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> label outlived the truth.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The Slime Stream Media has repeated lie after lie about what Trump "said". In most of these cases I too watched the Press Conferences and noticed that what he said and what was reported was totally opposite. When he was saying there were effective treatments for Covid-19, someone shouted out, "like drinking bleach?" and Trump repeated it because he didn't believe what he was hearing. Then he said, "no". But like everything from Liebermann he gains all of his political information from CNN. Do you suppose he got his 12 foot thick pavement there as well?

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 6:35:09 PM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:56:28 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >>On 12/9/2023 10:23 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 19:14:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:19:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 17:35:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:59:14 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Here that doughty, efficient and often successful fighter for
> >>>>>>>>> free speech, Mark Steyn, explains the Post-COVID excess
> >>>>>>>>> deaths around the world.
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.steynonline.com/13963/the-known-unknowns
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Once more we grasp that Tom was right from the
> >>>>>>>>> beginning. Will you monkeys now apologise to Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> >>>>>>>>> Rolling on the floor laughing out loud at the RBT clowns
> >>>>>>>>> being taken in by that conman Fauci.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Lou was just telling us that he doesn't like Trump because CNN
> >>>>>>>> thinks he's a meany for cutting off their government subsidies
> >>>>>>>> given to them by the Democrats so that they would report only
> >>>>>>>> good things about Democrats. That's a lot more important to
> >>>>>>>> him than 13% of his relatives dead because of a poisonous
> >>>>>>>> vaccine
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tommy, can you provide any proof of the excess Covid deaths that you
> >>>>>>> keep going on about?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't mean some idiot on you tube blathering on about something
> >>>>>>> he/she/it really knows nothing about, but a proper scientific study by
> >>>>>>> competent people of actual confirmed deaths due to the vaccination.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mortality statistics tend to be a running tabulation of deaths, which
> >>>>>> is usually a few months behind on publication and likely to require
> >>>>>> continuous corrections. Lacking anything better, the WHO (world
> >>>>>> health organization) is the best I can offer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)"
> >>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The problem is that excess death calculations rely on a dubious
> >>>>>> assumption, that deaths from all causes other than Covid-19 remain
> >>>>>> constant. That's hardly the case when the statistics gathering
> >>>>>> organizations either shut down between 2020 and the end of 2022,
> >>>>>> became heavily politicized, or faked their numbers to avoid a local
> >>>>>> panic. There were other factors, like the shutdown of many hospital
> >>>>>> services, which delayed many procedures. The lack of international
> >>>>>> standards on collecting Covid-19 related data doesn't help much. If
> >>>>>> you look at the graphs in the above URL, the lines between the upper
> >>>>>> and lower uncertainty bounds are huge. In other words, the "data" is
> >>>>>> really an estimate (or best guess).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here's the WHO graphs for just the USA:
> >>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-daily-economist-single-entity>
> >>>>>> 95% uncertainty upper and 0% lower bounds are still widely separated.
> >>>>>> For the USA, that's current +/- 1,000 deaths per week.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
> >>>>>>> deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
> >>>>>>> or competent.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, since Tom's reply is likely to be politicized, perhaps a
> >>>>>> pre-emptive strike might be amusing:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in
> >>>>>> Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic" (July 24, 2023)
> >>>>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617>
> >>>>>> "In this cohort study evaluating 538,159 deaths in individuals aged 25
> >>>>>> years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December
> >>>>>> 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters
> >>>>>> than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all
> >>>>>> adults, but not before."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Translation: Vaccines don't kill Republicans. It's the lack of
> >>>>>> vaccines that kill Republicans.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But you are comparing Covid Deaths. Tom is talking about deaths due
> >>>>> solely to having received a vaccination
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry, I missed that. As I understand it, the author is disappointed
> >>>> that the Covid death rate failed to drop to the comparatively low
> >>>> levels of pre-pandemic (before Jan 2023) incidence. Note the title,
> >>>> which suggest uncertainty:
> >>>> "An analysis of excess mortality based on age and sex; the possible
> >>>> role of Covid-19, delayed care and vaccines"
> >>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herman-Steigstra/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines/links/655c7aecce88b87031fbc73a/An-analysis-of-excess-mortality-based-on-age-and-sex-the-possible-role-of-Covid-19-delayed-care-and-vaccines.pdf>
> >>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines>
> >>>> (12 pages). Note that CBS is "Statistics Netherlands":
> >>>> <https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the author answered his own question on Pg 4.
> >>>> "In this graph, as an example, we see the baseline calculated for 2020
> >>>> for both men and women. What is immediately striking is the sharp peak
> >>>> among 75-year-olds. This is a consequence of the baby boom, the birth
> >>>> wave in 1946 immediately after the Second World War."
> >>>> In other words, he discovered that more men had died during WWII than
> >>>> women, and that the baseline death rates are finally catching up with
> >>>> the baby boomers. In other words, if he can't win at football, just
> >>>> move the goal posts. Redefining the baseline death rates to fit his
> >>>> conclusions is the equivalent to moving the goal posts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Most his contentions are summarized in one sentence on Pg 9:
> >>>> "We see here clearly and unmistakably that there was more excess
> >>>> mortality in all the years in which vaccination was carried out than
> >>>> in the year without vaccination."
> >>>> This is the basis of the authors uncertain conclusion that Covid was
> >>>> gone by the end of 2022 which should have reduced the excess deaths,
> >>>> but didn't. Never mind various Covid variants, long Covid, creative
> >>>> fatality tracking, delayed medical care, and such, all of which
> >>>> persist to this day in some degree.
> >>>>
> >>>> Pg 9 again: "The risk of mortality is increasing every year, while
> >>>> there is hardly any corona anymore. There are obviously no complete
> >>>> annual figures for 2023 yet, but the figures so far paint a picture
> >>>> identical to 2022."
> >>>> In other words, he admits to guessing based on incomplete statistics
> >>>> and continues to adjust the baseline death rates to meet his
> >>>> expectations. I would have been happier if he had used the baseline
> >>>> numbers in the same manner as the WHO and other agencies, and then
> >>>> applied his assumptions. Instead, he first adjusts his baseline
> >>>> numbers to meet his expectations and then wonders why they still
> >>>> didn't produce his expected results. Also, this is for only one
> >>>> country and does not represent the situation in other countries.
> >>>
> >>> For Tom it doesn't matter whether it's the fox or the rabbit, Tommy is
> >>> faster then either.
> >>>
> >>> In another post he has Bidden bombing the Nord Stream gas pipeline,
> >>> which from all I read is totally without any proof at all, although
> >>> there are rumors that it was a Ukraine plot... carried out by a group
> >>> from, Poland :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>You don't know that. Nor do I.
> >>
> >>A successful CIA or special services operation leaves hints
> >>to a different conclusion such as 'Polish agents'.
> >
> > I don't know what? That there is, apparently, no proof who did it? Or
> > that there is rumors that the Ukrainian did it?
> >
> > As for CIA operations leaving hints, I don't think so, at least not in
> > many cases. The bombing of Indonesia, for example, the pilot that they
> > caught was deliberately carrying identification in spite of orders NOT
> > to do so. The U2 flights over Russia and Cuba? The Air America flights
> > over Vietnam and Laos?
> >
> > Certainly the aircraft were Sterilized" so that the U.S. could
> > officially deny they the were the culprits but nothing was done to
> > imply that somebody else did the deed.
> Pulling crazy shit and then arranging the blame to fall on someone else
> is absolutely SOP for intelligence services. See for instance
> "Operation Gladio".

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:01:05 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>But like everything from Liebermann he gains all of his political
>information from CNN. Do you suppose he got his 12 foot thick
>pavement there as well?

You lie, as usual. I didn't write 12 feet thick. I originally
estimated that the road paved to your specifications would be 27
inches thick when repaved every 5 years during the last 90 years.
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/DF_BqYDEKTM/m/GrhhddLnAQAJ>
Since there are no roads that are 27 inches thick, I can safely assume
your 5 year repaving interval is not common practice.

The repaved every 5 years is YOUR invention, not mine:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/DF_BqYDEKTM/m/U0sJ-XGhAQAJ>
"Under normal use, asphalt should be replaced every five years."

I later decided that you didn't know how to recognize the humor of the
situation so I posted a more realistic figure:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/DF_BqYDEKTM/m/WEtX_FLYAAAJ>
"If the roads were repaved at the generally acceptable 25 year
interval with a 1.5" overlay, then in the past 90 years, the roads
would be:
90 / 25 * 1.5 = 5.4 in thick."

Incidentally, did you ever take or find a photo of the giant mud hole
at the base of Cull Canyon? You provided me with an entertaining but
confused description:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/jTjI6zDRmPo/m/-4PtIC3DAAAJ>
but I still don't see a lat-long location or any photos.

Maybe you can use Chat GPT 3 or 4 to created an AI version of the
mysterious bicycle obstructing mud hole on Cull Canyon? Start here:
<https://chat.openai.com/auth/login>
It's probably easier than using Photoshop to fake a suitable mud hole
using one of these:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=mud+hole&tbm=isch>
<https://stock.adobe.com/search/images?k=mud+hole>
9,746 images of a mud hole. Don't forget to edit the EXIF location
information so that it looks like a photo instead of faked image.

Perhaps if you locate your fake hole next to some of the melted
asphalt scorch marks you found on Cull Canyon Rd which you claim were
caused by EV (electric vehicle) fires and meltdowns?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:04:00 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> >
> > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > any.
> >
> > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > cause and effect:
> > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > vaccine caused the event."
> > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> >
> >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> >
> > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > dropping like flied.
> >
> >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > 0.001%.
> >
> > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> >
> >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> >> public health threat.
> >
> > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> >
> >> Even though it is a FACT
> >
> > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > unlikely to be a fact.
> >
> >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> >> heart damage)
> >
> > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination."
> > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> >
> >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> >
> > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > that.
> >
> >> But wait a minute,
> >
> > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> >
> >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> >> important medical universities in the world.
> >
> > Got an example of these large studies?
> >
> >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available.
> >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> >
> > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> >
> > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> >
> >
> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> thing.
>
> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> label outlived the truth.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
For many years in the US the test of newspaper lack of bias, seen at its narrowest filter in libel litigation, was "absence of malice" in the report, by the reporter and his editors, and by the management/owners of the paper.
>
Alas, no longer, not since the editor of the Washington Post decided that the peons electing Nixon was a slap in the face for intellectuals, and that therefore the people should be taught a lesson by having their massively elected President destroyed. (I can trace back -- and have in An Election of Patriots -- the decision point further, to Henry Luce's overwhelming desire to elect Eisenhower for the Republicans, in the process of which he essentially licensed television, hitherto limited to vapid entertainment, to enter destructive competition with the Press in political reporting, which eventually brought American media to the sorry state so blatantly obvious today..
>
Andre Jute
Apologies for again introducing common sense and hard knowledge into the quagmire of RBT.
>

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:24:56 PM UTC, pH wrote:
> On 2023-12-10, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> >
> <snip>
> >
> > My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
> > deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
> > or competent.
> Dr. John Campbell has been covering excess deaths for some time now.
>
> In this one he is using insurance actuarial date and our world in data.
> (They're in the references whatever the actual sites are).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOxhYyfYw4
>
> MP Andrew Bridgen in the UK was ejected from his party for talking about the
> excess deaths in that Kingdom but is still an MP and still talks about it..
>
> It seems to be one of the elephants in the room these days.
>
> I think it's very telling to read the comments on his (Campbell's)
> videos. While the problems people report post-vaccine are anecdotal, there
> sure are a *lot* of them.
>
> I'm also following Phillip McMillan of Vejon Health youtube site.
>
> I'm afraid that there will be more the the ongoing mRNA experient, sad to
> say.
>
> Returning to bicycle content now...
>
> pH in Aptos
>
Too many governments around the world are now acting against people reporting excess deaths long after the Chinese Virus was defeated for even the casually interested to miss the clear implication that the governments have some guilty secret to hide -- which could only be the errors in permitting, orchestrating, and enforcing ineffectual or actually dangerous vaccine programmes. It's a monstrous elephant in the room, very likely the biggest we will see in our lifetime, already bigger than even the Thalidomide Scandal of the 1950/60s which was about 10,000 deformed babies.
>
I can understand why the RBT resident clowns are embarrassed and shouting loudly to cover up their shame. Tom knew in advance, from his work with medical researchers in the closely related field of the AIDS virus, that all this shit would happen, he told them so repeatedly, they hounded him for being the only one with real knowledge, and now I'm telling them that Tom told them. I also predicted at the time that Tom would be proved right by subsequent events, simply because it was obvious to me that he was the only one on RBT who knew what he was talking about. They stand revealed a gullible clowns, not to mention a gang of vicious bullies. About high time, too. Scum is as scum does, and should be exposed every time.
>
Andre Jute
Welcome to 1984. George Orwell is alive and well and living in Fauci's head..
>

On 12/10/2023 9:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
>>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
>>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
>>>
>>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
>>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
>>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
>>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
>>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
>>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
>
>> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
>> thing.
>
> From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
> that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
> "While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
> suggested further research in that area."
> He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
> I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
> thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
> will be looking for a new job fairly soon.
>
> For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
> or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
> "several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
> At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
> was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
> Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
> "Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
> Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
> "There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
> 3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
> That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
> remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
> article expanded the difference to be:
> "...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
> inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
> control patients"
> whatever that means.
>
>> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
>> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
>> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
>> label outlived the truth.
>
> Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
> when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
> actually said was:
> "I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
> <https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
> Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.
>
>
>

Yes, that's another fine example of purposeful misdirection
by misquote or paraphrasing to reverse the meaning.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:09:03 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/10/2023 9:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
>>>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
>>>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
>>>>
>>>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
>>>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
>>>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
>>>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
>>>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
>>>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
>>
>>> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
>>> thing.
>>
>> From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
>> that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
>> "While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
>> suggested further research in that area."
>> He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
>> I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
>> thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
>> will be looking for a new job fairly soon.
>>
>> For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
>> or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
>> "several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
>> At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
>> was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
>> Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
>> "Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
>> Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
>> "There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
>> 3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
>> That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
>> remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
>> article expanded the difference to be:
>> "...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
>> inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
>> control patients"
>> whatever that means.
>>
>>> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
>>> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
>>> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
>>> label outlived the truth.
>>
>> Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
>> when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
>> actually said was:
>> "I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
>> <https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
>> Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Yes, that's another fine example of purposeful misdirection
>by misquote or paraphrasing to reverse the meaning.

"Taking the initiative" is defined as being the first to do something,
which was almost as ridiculous a boast as claiming he invented it.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:06:03 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:04:00 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> > >
> > > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > > any.
> > >
> > > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > > cause and effect:
> > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > > vaccine caused the event."
> > > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> > >
> > >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> > >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> > >
> > > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > > dropping like flied.
> > >
> > >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > > 0.001%.
> > >
> > > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> > >
> > >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> > >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> > >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> > >> public health threat.
> > >
> > > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> > >
> > >> Even though it is a FACT
> > >
> > > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > > unlikely to be a fact.
> > >
> > >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> > >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> > >> heart damage)
> > >
> > > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination."
> > > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> > >
> > >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> > >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> > >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> > >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> > >
> > > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > > that.
> > >
> > >> But wait a minute,
> > >
> > > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> > >
> > >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> > >> important medical universities in the world.
> > >
> > > Got an example of these large studies?
> > >
> > >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> > >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available.
> > >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> > >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> > >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> > >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> > >
> > > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> > >
> > > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> > >
> > >
> > I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> > thing.
> >
> > The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> > and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> > skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> > label outlived the truth.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> For many years in the US the test of newspaper lack of bias, seen at its narrowest filter in libel litigation, was "absence of malice" in the report, by the reporter and his editors, and by the management/owners of the paper.
> >
> Alas, no longer, not since the editor of the Washington Post decided that the peons electing Nixon was a slap in the face for intellectuals, and that therefore the people should be taught a lesson by having their massively elected President destroyed. (I can trace back -- and have in An Election of Patriots -- the decision point further, to Henry Luce's overwhelming desire to elect Eisenhower for the Republicans, in the process of which he essentially licensed television, hitherto limited to vapid entertainment, to enter destructive competition with the Press in political reporting, which eventually brought American media to the sorry state so blatantly obvious today.
> >
> Andre Jute
> Apologies for again introducing common sense and hard knowledge into the quagmire of RBT.
> >
I was too young to pay much attention to politics at that time but when you actually look at Nixon's list of achievements while in office it is rather shocking that the Democrats got away with proclaiming that the worst abuse of power ever was Watergate. Flunky is too young to know anything about Roosevelt putting Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps but I'm sure that queer is absolutely fine with that while he could be assault on Nixon. He know nothing at all about the man but would be standing in line with Krygowski and Liebermann to condemn him.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:44:09 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:24:56 PM UTC, pH wrote:
> > On 2023-12-10, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >>> >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
> > > deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
> > > or competent.
> > Dr. John Campbell has been covering excess deaths for some time now.
> >
> > In this one he is using insurance actuarial date and our world in data.
> > (They're in the references whatever the actual sites are).
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOxhYyfYw4
> >
> > MP Andrew Bridgen in the UK was ejected from his party for talking about the
> > excess deaths in that Kingdom but is still an MP and still talks about it.
> >
> > It seems to be one of the elephants in the room these days.
> >
> > I think it's very telling to read the comments on his (Campbell's)
> > videos. While the problems people report post-vaccine are anecdotal, there
> > sure are a *lot* of them.
> >
> > I'm also following Phillip McMillan of Vejon Health youtube site.
> >
> > I'm afraid that there will be more the the ongoing mRNA experient, sad to
> > say.
> >
> > Returning to bicycle content now...
> >
> > pH in Aptos
> >
> Too many governments around the world are now acting against people reporting excess deaths long after the Chinese Virus was defeated for even the casually interested to miss the clear implication that the governments have some guilty secret to hide -- which could only be the errors in permitting, orchestrating, and enforcing ineffectual or actually dangerous vaccine programmes. It's a monstrous elephant in the room, very likely the biggest we will see in our lifetime, already bigger than even the Thalidomide Scandal of the 1950/60s which was about 10,000 deformed babies.
> >
> I can understand why the RBT resident clowns are embarrassed and shouting loudly to cover up their shame. Tom knew in advance, from his work with medical researchers in the closely related field of the AIDS virus, that all this shit would happen, he told them so repeatedly, they hounded him for being the only one with real knowledge, and now I'm telling them that Tom told them. I also predicted at the time that Tom would be proved right by subsequent events, simply because it was obvious to me that he was the only one on RBT who knew what he was talking about. They stand revealed a gullible clowns, not to mention a gang of vicious bullies. About high time, too. Scum is as scum does, and should be exposed every time.
> >
> Andre Jute
> Welcome to 1984. George Orwell is alive and well and living in Fauci's head.
> >
The Chinese virus was not "defeated" as such, suggesting that we did something to end its danger. People that were not vaccinated caught the illness and gained natural fairly long term immunity and the virus itself continued to mutate to the point where it is little more than a dry cough and an ill feeling for a week. The people who were vaccinated are the one's in the most danger. As I pointed out, the vaccine has been shown to turn from mRNA to DNA in several organs of the body and continue to pump out a wide variety of proteins most of which are foreign to the human body. Now most most people's immune system will attack and destroy these cells with foreign DNA but far too many will not.

I watched a YouTube video of a virologist that explained how proteins other than the Spike protein were being manufactured by the body and tried to find it using Google. What I found was a continuous string of "fact check" sites that do nothing more than mimic Fauci who is now a proven liar that isn't being prosecuted for lying to Congress because Biden won't allow his justice department to be used for justice. I'm sure that we can hear from the Stupid 3 (Scharf has become a realist and Slocomb remains such an idiot that you cannot get anything sane from him) that there are no excess deaths at all.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 6:09:08 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 9:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> >>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> >>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> >>>
> >>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> >>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> >>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> >>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> >>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> >>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> >
> >> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> >> thing.
> >
> > From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
> > that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
> > "While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
> > suggested further research in that area."
> > He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
> > I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
> > thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
> > will be looking for a new job fairly soon.
> >
> > For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
> > or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
> > "several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
> > At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
> > was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
> > Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
> > "Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
> > Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
> > <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
> > "There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
> > 3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
> > That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
> > remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
> > article expanded the difference to be:
> > "...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
> > inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
> > control patients"
> > whatever that means.
> >
> >> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> >> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> >> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> >> label outlived the truth.
> >
> > Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
> > when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
> > actually said was:
> > "I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
> > <https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
> > Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.
> >
> >
> >
> Yes, that's another fine example of purposeful misdirection
> by misquote or paraphrasing to reverse the meaning.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Liebermann never fails to show us his IQ.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 6:18:45 AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:09:03 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 12/10/2023 9:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> >>>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> >>>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> >>>>
> >>>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> >>>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> >>>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection..
> >>>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> >>>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> >>>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> >>
> >>> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> >>> thing.
> >>
> >> From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
> >> that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
> >> "While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
> >> suggested further research in that area."
> >> He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
> >> I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
> >> thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
> >> will be looking for a new job fairly soon.
> >>
> >> For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
> >> or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
> >> "several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
> >> At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
> >> was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
> >> Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
> >> "Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
> >> Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
> >> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
> >> "There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
> >> 3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
> >> That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
> >> remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
> >> article expanded the difference to be:
> >> "...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
> >> inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
> >> control patients"
> >> whatever that means.
> >>
> >>> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> >>> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> >>> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> >>> label outlived the truth.
> >>
> >> Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
> >> when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
> >> actually said was:
> >> "I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
> >> <https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
> >> Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Yes, that's another fine example of purposeful misdirection
> >by misquote or paraphrasing to reverse the meaning.
> "Taking the initiative" is defined as being the first to do something,
> which was almost as ridiculous a boast as claiming he invented it.
Don't you find it curious that moron Liebermann doesn't know that the vaccine at BEST appeared to protect against Covid-19 for 30 days. It most certainly did NOT prevent your from spreading it and after 30 days you caught Covid anyway. What's more, if you took the series, the Yale Study showed that 65% of people had serious side effects. I suppose when you're like Liebermann you absolutely must be an apologist for Fauci and Big Pharma,. He has to show that he is intelligent by agreeing with Fauci.

I'm still remembering that guy yesterday telling me that Liebermann claims that I am trying to destroy his reputation. That is the funniest thing yet. If I destroyed his reputation he would actually look better. Do you suppose he is still telling people that he had radiation treatments and they don't effect his immune system?

On 12/11/2023 10:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 6:09:08 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/10/2023 9:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 19:03:57 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
>>>>> "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
>>>>>
>>>>> You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
>>>>> there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
>>>>> infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
>>>>> Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
>>>>> are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
>>>>> vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
>>>
>>>> I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> From the BBC article I cited, Pres Trump was very careful to suggest
>>> that such Covid-19 cures should be studied.
>>> "While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump
>>> suggested further research in that area."
>>> He then "suggested" to his advisors to look into other such remedies.
>>> I'm probably reading between the lines hear, but it sounds like a
>>> thinly veiled order to look all these marginal "treatments" or they
>>> will be looking for a new job fairly soon.
>>>
>>> For the (broken) record, I asked (not accused) Tom if he meant bleach
>>> or disinfectant when he proclaimed that there were:
>>> "several drugs that were VERY effective using off-label"
>>> At the time, the wonder drug was allegedly Remdesivir. Initially, it
>>> was proclaimed to be everything from a miracle drug to poison.
>>> Eventually, the data was collected and tabulated:
>>> "Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Mortality Among Hospitalized
>>> Adults With COVID-19 in the United States" (Dec 1, 2022)
>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799114>
>>> "There were 3557 mortality events (14.3%) in the remdesivir group and
>>> 3775 mortality events (15.2%) in the control group."
>>> That's a fabulous 0.9% difference in mortality between taking
>>> remdesivir and taking a placebo (or taking nothing). Somehow, the
>>> article expanded the difference to be:
>>> "...associated with a statistically significant 17% reduction in
>>> inpatient mortality (...) compared with propensity score-matched
>>> control patients"
>>> whatever that means.
>>>
>>>> The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
>>>> and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
>>>> skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
>>>> label outlived the truth.
>>>
>>> Such are the hazards of being "quoted" by the press. My favorite was
>>> when Al Gore was quoted as claiming he invented the internet. What he
>>> actually said was:
>>> "I took the initiative in creating the Internet".
>>> <https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/799/708>
>>> Somehow, the illusion usually triumphs over reality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, that's another fine example of purposeful misdirection
>> by misquote or paraphrasing to reverse the meaning.

> Liebermann never fails to show us his IQ.

??
He remembered an apt example and contributed promptly.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:24:28 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Don't you find it curious that moron Liebermann doesn't know that the vaccine at BEST appeared to protect against Covid-19 for 30 days. It most certainly did NOT prevent your from spreading it and after 30 days you caught Covid anyway. What's more, if you took the series, the Yale Study showed that 65% of people had serious side effects. I suppose when you're like Liebermann you absolutely must be an apologist for Fauci and Big Pharma,. He has to show that he is intelligent by agreeing with Fauci.

What Yale study? I seem to recall you mentioned that recently:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/_0tCOqDKs_o/m/qUehg2IQAAAJ>
which provides a link to the study at:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JblPugmoTBw&t=1090s>
Oh, DrBeen who bases his rant on a "preprint".
"New Yale Study: Vaccine Injured Are Highly Symptomatic with Poor
Health (Preprint). In this online, observational, self-reported
post-vaccine injured patients the researchers from Yale have gathered
and analyzed the kind of symptoms, intensity of symptoms, demography,
treatment options, and the psychological status of such patients.
Let's review."

Nice, but there's no link to the original Yale study. A little digging
excavated a link to the (preprint) report:
"Post-Vaccination Syndrome: A Descriptive Analysis of Reported
Symptoms and Patient Experiences After Covid-19 Immunization"
<https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.09.23298266v1>
which then points to the report at:
<https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.09.23298266v1.full.pdf>
"Introduction: A chronic post-vaccination syndrome (PVS) after
Covid-19 vaccination has been reported but has yet to be well
characterized."

Amazing. They found a problem after vaccination but can't clearly
define (characterize) the problem. Seems a bit vague.

"NOTE: This preprint reports new research that has not been certified
by peer review and should not be used to guide clinical practice."
Only 241 people in the test sample with no controls. No thanks.

>I'm still remembering that guy yesterday telling me that Liebermann claims that I am trying to destroy his reputation. That is the funniest thing yet. If I destroyed his reputation he would actually look better.

Nope. Attempting to ruin my reputation has no effect on what's left
of your reputation. I could be evil incarnate but you will remain Tom
Kunich, the incompetent liar.

>Do you suppose he is still telling people that he had radiation treatments and they don't effect his immune system?

Not at the dosage that was used. Larger doses can be rather nasty. I
don't have the numbers handy but I think it was about 70 Gy (Grays).
1 Gy = 1 Joule/kilogram = 100 rad
There were some side effects, but nothing involving the immune system.
Anyway, feel free to coninue trying. I'm not worried because nobody
believes you.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:40:56 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/11/2023 10:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Liebermann never fails to show us his IQ.

Tom never fails to change the topic.

>??
>He remembered an apt example and contributed promptly.

I didn't remember and guessed the numbers. I'm still not certain I
have my IQ numbers correct. Like taking a DNA ancestry test, I fear
the results might not be favorable. my current IQ is probably lower
than my guess (below) of 110. Probably about 95. Yech.

"Does IQ decrease with age?"
<https://metafact.io/factcheck_answers/2355>

<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/vskIUAUTl5A/m/Lz2djPIaBwAJ>
"I know exactly how smart or stupid I am. I've taken a few IQ tests in
the past and have done reasonably well. My IQ ran between 125 and
115 on the WAIS-R test. Over the years, it has decreased to the low
end of this scale due to various medical problems and the side effects
of several prescription drugs. I would guess about 110 today. I've
also run a few informal memory retention tests, which also show some
deterioration. I hate getting old."

Of course, Tom is a genius: (Aug 24, 2019)
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/eZzTpEun62Q/m/xNYjs3WUDwAJ>
"My IQ was measured at 145"

(Jan 16, 2023)
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/85qODEJbdFE/m/3Tri8uHBCgAJ>
"IQ = Mental Age / Chronological Age * 100"
As you get older, your IQ decreases.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 01:55:49 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I can't believe you missed :
>"Nixon was actually a marvelous President that was willing to take the blame for the acts of his campaign staff (Colonel Oliver North)"

Oops. Y'er right. I missed it. With so many targets being tossed in
the air by Tom, I really don't think I can catch all of them. Thanks
for saving this one for me.

Oliver North orchestrated the Iran-Contra mess the 1980's:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair>
At the time, Ronald Regan was president, not Nixon. Oliver North
didn't have anything to do with Nixon's election campaign, which was
managed by the Watergate burglars during the 1972 presidential
election:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:35:05 -0500, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:56:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 12/9/2023 10:23 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 19:14:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:19:54 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 17:35:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:59:14 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Here that doughty, efficient and often successful fighter for
>>>>>>>>>>> free speech, Mark Steyn, explains the Post-COVID excess
>>>>>>>>>>> deaths around the world.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.steynonline.com/13963/the-known-unknowns
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once more we grasp that Tom was right from the
>>>>>>>>>>> beginning. Will you monkeys now apologise to Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>> Rolling on the floor laughing out loud at the RBT clowns
>>>>>>>>>>> being taken in by that conman Fauci.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lou was just telling us that he doesn't like Trump because CNN
>>>>>>>>>> thinks he's a meany for cutting off their government subsidies
>>>>>>>>>> given to them by the Democrats so that they would report only
>>>>>>>>>> good things about Democrats. That's a lot more important to
>>>>>>>>>> him than 13% of his relatives dead because of a poisonous
>>>>>>>>>> vaccine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tommy, can you provide any proof of the excess Covid deaths that you
>>>>>>>>> keep going on about?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't mean some idiot on you tube blathering on about something
>>>>>>>>> he/she/it really knows nothing about, but a proper scientific study by
>>>>>>>>> competent people of actual confirmed deaths due to the vaccination.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mortality statistics tend to be a running tabulation of deaths, which
>>>>>>>> is usually a few months behind on publication and likely to require
>>>>>>>> continuous corrections. Lacking anything better, the WHO (world
>>>>>>>> health organization) is the best I can offer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)"
>>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem is that excess death calculations rely on a dubious
>>>>>>>> assumption, that deaths from all causes other than Covid-19 remain
>>>>>>>> constant. That's hardly the case when the statistics gathering
>>>>>>>> organizations either shut down between 2020 and the end of 2022,
>>>>>>>> became heavily politicized, or faked their numbers to avoid a local
>>>>>>>> panic. There were other factors, like the shutdown of many hospital
>>>>>>>> services, which delayed many procedures. The lack of international
>>>>>>>> standards on collecting Covid-19 related data doesn't help much. If
>>>>>>>> you look at the graphs in the above URL, the lines between the upper
>>>>>>>> and lower uncertainty bounds are huge. In other words, the "data" is
>>>>>>>> really an estimate (or best guess).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the WHO graphs for just the USA:
>>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-daily-economist-single-entity>
>>>>>>>> 95% uncertainty upper and 0% lower bounds are still widely separated.
>>>>>>>> For the USA, that's current +/- 1,000 deaths per week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
>>>>>>>>> deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
>>>>>>>>> or competent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, since Tom's reply is likely to be politicized, perhaps a
>>>>>>>> pre-emptive strike might be amusing:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in
>>>>>>>> Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic" (July 24, 2023)
>>>>>>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617>
>>>>>>>> "In this cohort study evaluating 538,159 deaths in individuals aged 25
>>>>>>>> years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December
>>>>>>>> 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters
>>>>>>>> than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all
>>>>>>>> adults, but not before."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Translation: Vaccines don't kill Republicans. It's the lack of
>>>>>>>> vaccines that kill Republicans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you are comparing Covid Deaths. Tom is talking about deaths due
>>>>>>> solely to having received a vaccination
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, I missed that. As I understand it, the author is disappointed
>>>>>> that the Covid death rate failed to drop to the comparatively low
>>>>>> levels of pre-pandemic (before Jan 2023) incidence. Note the title,
>>>>>> which suggest uncertainty:
>>>>>> "An analysis of excess mortality based on age and sex; the possible
>>>>>> role of Covid-19, delayed care and vaccines"
>>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herman-Steigstra/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines/links/655c7aecce88b87031fbc73a/An-analysis-of-excess-mortality-based-on-age-and-sex-the-possible-role-of-Covid-19-delayed-care-and-vaccines.pdf>
>>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines>
>>>>>> (12 pages). Note that CBS is "Statistics Netherlands":
>>>>>> <https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the author answered his own question on Pg 4.
>>>>>> "In this graph, as an example, we see the baseline calculated for 2020
>>>>>> for both men and women. What is immediately striking is the sharp peak
>>>>>> among 75-year-olds. This is a consequence of the baby boom, the birth
>>>>>> wave in 1946 immediately after the Second World War."
>>>>>> In other words, he discovered that more men had died during WWII than
>>>>>> women, and that the baseline death rates are finally catching up with
>>>>>> the baby boomers. In other words, if he can't win at football, just
>>>>>> move the goal posts. Redefining the baseline death rates to fit his
>>>>>> conclusions is the equivalent to moving the goal posts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most his contentions are summarized in one sentence on Pg 9:
>>>>>> "We see here clearly and unmistakably that there was more excess
>>>>>> mortality in all the years in which vaccination was carried out than
>>>>>> in the year without vaccination."
>>>>>> This is the basis of the authors uncertain conclusion that Covid was
>>>>>> gone by the end of 2022 which should have reduced the excess deaths,
>>>>>> but didn't. Never mind various Covid variants, long Covid, creative
>>>>>> fatality tracking, delayed medical care, and such, all of which
>>>>>> persist to this day in some degree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pg 9 again: "The risk of mortality is increasing every year, while
>>>>>> there is hardly any corona anymore. There are obviously no complete
>>>>>> annual figures for 2023 yet, but the figures so far paint a picture
>>>>>> identical to 2022."
>>>>>> In other words, he admits to guessing based on incomplete statistics
>>>>>> and continues to adjust the baseline death rates to meet his
>>>>>> expectations. I would have been happier if he had used the baseline
>>>>>> numbers in the same manner as the WHO and other agencies, and then
>>>>>> applied his assumptions. Instead, he first adjusts his baseline
>>>>>> numbers to meet his expectations and then wonders why they still
>>>>>> didn't produce his expected results. Also, this is for only one
>>>>>> country and does not represent the situation in other countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> For Tom it doesn't matter whether it's the fox or the rabbit, Tommy is
>>>>> faster then either.
>>>>>
>>>>> In another post he has Bidden bombing the Nord Stream gas pipeline,
>>>>> which from all I read is totally without any proof at all, although
>>>>> there are rumors that it was a Ukraine plot... carried out by a group
>>>>> from, Poland :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You don't know that. Nor do I.
>>>>
>>>>A successful CIA or special services operation leaves hints
>>>>to a different conclusion such as 'Polish agents'.
>>>
>>> I don't know what? That there is, apparently, no proof who did it? Or
>>> that there is rumors that the Ukrainian did it?
>>>
>>> As for CIA operations leaving hints, I don't think so, at least not in
>>> many cases. The bombing of Indonesia, for example, the pilot that they
>>> caught was deliberately carrying identification in spite of orders NOT
>>> to do so. The U2 flights over Russia and Cuba? The Air America flights
>>> over Vietnam and Laos?
>>>
>>> Certainly the aircraft were Sterilized" so that the U.S. could
>>> officially deny they the were the culprits but nothing was done to
>>> imply that somebody else did the deed.
>>
>>Pulling crazy shit and then arranging the blame to fall on someone else
>>is absolutely SOP for intelligence services. See for instance
>>"Operation Gladio".
>
> If I'm not mistaken "Operation Gladio" was intended to form secret
> "stay behind" units in Soviet dominated areas, not to cause blame to
> fall on someone else. Rather like the support G.B. gave to many "Under
> Ground" (often Communist) groups in German occupied Europe.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:06:46 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Awww, now ya went and ruined it. I was so looking forward to tommy regaling us with stories about how he met with ollie in the lobby of the watergate hotel where he described to tommy how the demoncrats burgled their own offices. Or maybe that would have been irish-troll spinning such yarns....like it matters.....

Well, maybe a personal anecdote might help. While the Watergate
circus was in session, I was hanging around Marina Del Rey and Venice
Beach. At the time, the Watergate investigators were looking for
Donald Segretti, the lawyer who seemed to be in charge of Nixon's
dirty tricks department. The committee wanted to ask him some
questions. He was living on the 2nd floor of a 3 floor condo on the
border between Marina Del Rey and Venice Beach. From across the
swamp, I watched various groups, in law enforcement style uniforms,
meticulously searching the top and bottom floors, while ignoring the
2nd floor. I also watched as something being raised and lowered
between the 1st and 2nd floors with a rope. No clue what it might
have been. Later, the newspapers mumbled that Donald Segretti was
nowhere to be found.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:11:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:44:09?AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:24:56?PM UTC, pH wrote:
>> > On 2023-12-10, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> > ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> > >>> >
>> > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
>> > > deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
>> > > or competent.
>> > Dr. John Campbell has been covering excess deaths for some time now.
>> >
>> > In this one he is using insurance actuarial date and our world in data.
>> > (They're in the references whatever the actual sites are).
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOxhYyfYw4
>> >
>> > MP Andrew Bridgen in the UK was ejected from his party for talking about the
>> > excess deaths in that Kingdom but is still an MP and still talks about it.
>> >
>> > It seems to be one of the elephants in the room these days.
>> >
>> > I think it's very telling to read the comments on his (Campbell's)
>> > videos. While the problems people report post-vaccine are anecdotal, there
>> > sure are a *lot* of them.
>> >
>> > I'm also following Phillip McMillan of Vejon Health youtube site.
>> >
>> > I'm afraid that there will be more the the ongoing mRNA experient, sad to
>> > say.
>> >
>> > Returning to bicycle content now...
>> >
>> > pH in Aptos
>> >
>> Too many governments around the world are now acting against people reporting excess deaths long after the Chinese Virus was defeated for even the casually interested to miss the clear implication that the governments have some guilty secret to hide -- which could only be the errors in permitting, orchestrating, and enforcing ineffectual or actually dangerous vaccine programmes. It's a monstrous elephant in the room, very likely the biggest we will see in our lifetime, already bigger than even the Thalidomide Scandal of the 1950/60s which was about 10,000 deformed babies.
>> >
>> I can understand why the RBT resident clowns are embarrassed and shouting loudly to cover up their shame. Tom knew in advance, from his work with medical researchers in the closely related field of the AIDS virus, that all this shit would happen, he told them so repeatedly, they hounded him for being the only one with real knowledge, and now I'm telling them that Tom told them. I also predicted at the time that Tom would be proved right by subsequent events, simply because it was obvious to me that he was the only one on RBT who knew what he was talking about. They stand revealed a gullible clowns, not to mention a gang of vicious bullies. About high time, too. Scum is as scum does, and should be exposed every time.
>> >
>> Andre Jute
>> Welcome to 1984. George Orwell is alive and well and living in Fauci's head.
>> >
>The Chinese virus was not "defeated" as such, suggesting that we did something to end its danger. People that were not vaccinated caught the illness and gained natural fairly long term immunity and the virus itself continued to mutate to the point where it is little more than a dry cough and an ill feeling for a week. The people who were vaccinated are the one's in the most danger. As I pointed out, the vaccine has been shown to turn from mRNA to DNA in several organs of the body and continue to pump out a wide variety of proteins most of which are foreign to the human body. Now most most people's immune system will attack and destroy these cells with foreign DNA but far too many will not.
>
>I watched a YouTube video of a virologist that explained how proteins other than the Spike protein were being manufactured by the body and tried to find it using Google. What I found was a continuous string of "fact check" sites that do nothing more than mimic Fauci who is now a proven liar that isn't being prosecuted for lying to Congress because Biden won't allow his justice department to be used for justice. I'm sure that we can hear from the Stupid 3 (Scharf has become a realist and Slocomb remains such an idiot that you cannot get anything sane from him) that there are no excess deaths at all.

Tommy! Currently some 81.4% of the U.S. population - 270,227,181
people - have received the Covid vaccination and in the elderly - 65
or older - the number is 95%.

So given your warnings about the dangers of the vaccination when can
we expect people to start dying?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:53:36 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:06:03 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:04:00 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> > > >
> > > > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > > > any.
> > > >
> > > > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > > > cause and effect:
> > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > > > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > > > vaccine caused the event."
> > > > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > > > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> > > >
> > > >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> > > >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > > > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > > > dropping like flied.
> > > >
> > > >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > > > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > > > 0.001%.
> > > >
> > > > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > > > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > > > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > > > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > > > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > > > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > > > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> > > >
> > > >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> > > >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> > > >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> > > >> public health threat.
> > > >
> > > > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > > > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > > > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > > > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> > > >
> > > >> Even though it is a FACT
> > > >
> > > > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > > > unlikely to be a fact.
> > > >
> > > >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> > > >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> > > >> heart damage)
> > > >
> > > > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > > > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > > > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > > > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination."
> > > > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> > > >
> > > >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> > > >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> > > >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> > > >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> > > >
> > > > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > > > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > > > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > > > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > > > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > > > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > >> But wait a minute,
> > > >
> > > > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> > > >
> > > >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> > > >> important medical universities in the world.
> > > >
> > > > Got an example of these large studies?
> > > >
> > > >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> > > >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available.
> > > >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> > > >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> > > >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> > > >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> > > >
> > > > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > > > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > > > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> > > >
> > > > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > > > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > > > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > > > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > > > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > > > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> > > thing.
> > >
> > > The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> > > and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> > > skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> > > label outlived the truth.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >
> > For many years in the US the test of newspaper lack of bias, seen at its narrowest filter in libel litigation, was "absence of malice" in the report, by the reporter and his editors, and by the management/owners of the paper.
> > >
> > Alas, no longer, not since the editor of the Washington Post decided that the peons electing Nixon was a slap in the face for intellectuals, and that therefore the people should be taught a lesson by having their massively elected President destroyed. (I can trace back -- and have in An Election of Patriots -- the decision point further, to Henry Luce's overwhelming desire to elect Eisenhower for the Republicans, in the process of which he essentially licensed television, hitherto limited to vapid entertainment, to enter destructive competition with the Press in political reporting, which eventually brought American media to the sorry state so blatantly obvious today.
> > >
> > Andre Jute
> > Apologies for again introducing common sense and hard knowledge into the quagmire of RBT.
> > >
> I was too young to pay much attention to politics at that time but when you actually look at Nixon's list of achievements while in office it is rather shocking that the Democrats got away with proclaiming that the worst abuse of power ever was Watergate. Flunky is too young to know anything about Roosevelt putting Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps but I'm sure that queer is absolutely fine with that while he could be assault on Nixon. He know nothing at all about the man but would be standing in line with Krygowski and Liebermann to condemn him.
>
Nixon was the president uniquely skilled in foreign relations and policy. He easily found Henry Kissinger, the world's leading historian and proponent of balance of power politics, the underlying principle of mutual assured destruction; Nixon gave Kissinger the opportunity to practice what he preached. Nixon did some great things, and in time will go down as one of the great Presidents. Watergate was mickey mouse skullduggery compared to the shit the Kennedy bros got up to, like the assassination of the Diem brothers. Charles McCarry did a good job in The Tears of Autumn of explaining how it was the ritual elder of the Diem dynasty who procured the assassination of JFK in retaliation. -- AJ

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:00:30 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:53:36 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:06:03 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:04:00 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> > > > >
> > > > > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > > > > any.
> > > > >
> > > > > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > > > > cause and effect:
> > > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > > > > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > > > > vaccine caused the event."
> > > > > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > > > > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> > > > >
> > > > >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> > > > >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> > > > >
> > > > > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > > > > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > > > > dropping like flied.
> > > > >
> > > > >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > > > > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > > > > 0.001%.
> > > > >
> > > > > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > > > > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > > > > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > > > > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > > > > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > > > > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > > > > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> > > > >
> > > > >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> > > > >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> > > > >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> > > > >> public health threat.
> > > > >
> > > > > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > > > > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > > > > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > > > > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> > > > >
> > > > >> Even though it is a FACT
> > > > >
> > > > > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > > > > unlikely to be a fact.
> > > > >
> > > > >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> > > > >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> > > > >> heart damage)
> > > > >
> > > > > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > > > > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > > > > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > > > > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination."
> > > > > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> > > > >
> > > > >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> > > > >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> > > > >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> > > > >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > > > > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > > > > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > > > > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > > > > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > > > > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > > > > that.
> > > > >
> > > > >> But wait a minute,
> > > > >
> > > > > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> > > > >
> > > > >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> > > > >> important medical universities in the world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Got an example of these large studies?
> > > > >
> > > > >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> > > > >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available.
> > > > >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> > > > >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> > > > >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> > > > >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > > > > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > > > > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> > > > >
> > > > > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > > > > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > > > > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > > > > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > > > > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > > > > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> > > > thing.
> > > >
> > > > The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> > > > and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> > > > skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> > > > label outlived the truth.
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > >
> > > For many years in the US the test of newspaper lack of bias, seen at its narrowest filter in libel litigation, was "absence of malice" in the report, by the reporter and his editors, and by the management/owners of the paper.
> > > >
> > > Alas, no longer, not since the editor of the Washington Post decided that the peons electing Nixon was a slap in the face for intellectuals, and that therefore the people should be taught a lesson by having their massively elected President destroyed. (I can trace back -- and have in An Election of Patriots -- the decision point further, to Henry Luce's overwhelming desire to elect Eisenhower for the Republicans, in the process of which he essentially licensed television, hitherto limited to vapid entertainment, to enter destructive competition with the Press in political reporting, which eventually brought American media to the sorry state so blatantly obvious today.
> > > >
> > > Andre Jute
> > > Apologies for again introducing common sense and hard knowledge into the quagmire of RBT.
> > > >
> > I was too young to pay much attention to politics at that time but when you actually look at Nixon's list of achievements while in office it is rather shocking that the Democrats got away with proclaiming that the worst abuse of power ever was Watergate. Flunky is too young to know anything about Roosevelt putting Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps but I'm sure that queer is absolutely fine with that while he could be assault on Nixon. He know nothing at all about the man but would be standing in line with Krygowski and Liebermann to condemn him.
> >
> Nixon was the president uniquely skilled in foreign relations and policy. He easily found Henry Kissinger, the world's leading historian and proponent of balance of power politics, the underlying principle of mutual assured destruction; Nixon gave Kissinger the opportunity to practice what he preached. Nixon did some great things, and in time will go down as one of the great Presidents. Watergate was mickey mouse skullduggery compared to the shit the Kennedy bros got up to, like the assassination of the Diem brothers. Charles McCarry did a good job in The Tears of Autumn of explaining how it was the ritual elder of the Diem dynasty who procured the assassination of JFK in retaliation. -- AJ