On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 11:14:49 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:00:30 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:53:36 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 2:06:03 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:04:00 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 12/10/2023 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hard medical studies showing that the government was either erasing or urging doctors not to file VAERS entries (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Got a link to some of these hard medical studies? I couldn't find
> > > > > > any.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reminder. VAERS data is not intended to be used for demonstrating
> > > > > > cause and effect:
> > > > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html>
> > > > > > "The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a
> > > > > > vaccine caused the event."
> > > > > > "A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified
> > > > > > vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> that showed that instead of the CDC oft quoted 2% adverse events
> > > > > >> that the ACTUAL number was 65%
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I couldn't find anything with Google search that claimed 65% adverse
> > > > > > effects. If that were true, people who had been vaccinated would be
> > > > > > dropping like flied.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> ...they are entirely unaware that for a vaccine to be considered
> > > > > > "safe" it must have a VAERS rating of 0.01% and a preferred rating of
> > > > > > 0.001%.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Amazing. I wasn't aware that a VAERS rating was required BEFORE a
> > > > > > vaccine could be considered safe. That's really amazing because a
> > > > > > virus is not suppose to be generically available until AFTER it has
> > > > > > been tested and declared safe. It would be difficult to file a VAERS
> > > > > > report for a vaccine prior to it being declared safe for general
> > > > > > consumption. Got a source for those amazing numbers. "preferred
> > > > > > rating" for being safe seems rather odd.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> So by the CDC's OWN RULES a VAERS rating of 2% would have been
> > > > > >> unreleasable and the vaccine companies REGARDLESS of emergency
> > > > > >> authorization held accountable for what would be considered a
> > > > > >> public health threat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As before, I can't seem to find anything under "VAERS approval" or
> > > > > > "VAERS rating". VAERS is a crowd sourced database of complaints
> > > > > > resulting from various vaccines. It's not a testing lab.
> > > > > > <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> > > > > > Please show me where it has become a drug safety rating system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Even though it is a FACT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I usually use a line like that to warn me that what follows is
> > > > > > unlikely to be a fact.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> that all of the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis (which in adults
> > > > > >> may or may not resolve - that is it may or may not cause permanent
> > > > > >> heart damage)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There has been some conjecture that there is a connection.
> > > > > > <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10216497/>
> > > > > > "Myocarditis rates in people aged 12 to 39 years are around 12.6 cases
> > > > > > per million doses following the second dose of mRNA vaccination.."
> > > > > > Doesn't seem like much of a risk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> the CDC is STILL recommending that the mRNA vaccines which are
> > > > > >> now forbidden in most of the world, should be used on all people
> > > > > >> including children down to 6 months which will cause permanent
> > > > > >> heart damage to children almost certainly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not really. Here's what really is happening:
> > > > > > "FDA Takes Action on Updated mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines to Better Protect
> > > > > > Against Currently Circulating Variants"
> > > > > > <https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-action-updated-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-better-protect-against-currently-circulating>
> > > > > > Basically, the mRNA vaccines were updated for the latest variants and
> > > > > > the older mRNA vaccines were designated as obsolete or something like
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> But wait a minute,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I waited a minute, but nothing happened.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> the Stupid 3 only believe the CDC and not large studies by the most
> > > > > >> important medical universities in the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Got an example of these large studies?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> An emergency authorization for a shortened testing period MAY NOT be
> > > > > >> issued unless there are not safe alternative methods available..
> > > > > >> So Fauci claimed that there were no alternative means of treatment
> > > > > >> when in fact there were several drugs that were VERY effective using
> > > > > >> off-label (that means using a drug for any other reason than it was
> > > > > >> initially developed to treat) drugs. Fauci lied and people died.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you referring to drinking bleach or injecting disinfectant?
> > > > > > "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment"
> > > > > > <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote "...no alternative means of treatment". Please note that
> > > > > > there's a difference between treatment, which occurs after an
> > > > > > infection, and vaccination which is intended to prevent an infection.
> > > > > > Please try not to get these two terms confused. Paxlovid and Lagevrio
> > > > > > are currently the best post infection treatments, while the mRNA based
> > > > > > vaccines are currently the best method of prevention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I heard that press conference live. Mr Trump said no such
> > > > > thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The 'bleach' quip was by a TeeVee comedian later that day
> > > > > and just as Gerald Ford, a graceful accomplished athlete,
> > > > > skier, dancer was pegged as 'clumsy' by a comedian, the
> > > > > label outlived the truth.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > >
> > > > For many years in the US the test of newspaper lack of bias, seen at its narrowest filter in libel litigation, was "absence of malice" in the report, by the reporter and his editors, and by the management/owners of the paper.
> > > > >
> > > > Alas, no longer, not since the editor of the Washington Post decided that the peons electing Nixon was a slap in the face for intellectuals, and that therefore the people should be taught a lesson by having their massively elected President destroyed. (I can trace back -- and have in An Election of Patriots -- the decision point further, to Henry Luce's overwhelming desire to elect Eisenhower for the Republicans, in the process of which he essentially licensed television, hitherto limited to vapid entertainment, to enter destructive competition with the Press in political reporting, which eventually brought American media to the sorry state so blatantly obvious today.
> > > > >
> > > > Andre Jute
> > > > Apologies for again introducing common sense and hard knowledge into the quagmire of RBT.
> > > > >
> > > I was too young to pay much attention to politics at that time but when you actually look at Nixon's list of achievements while in office it is rather shocking that the Democrats got away with proclaiming that the worst abuse of power ever was Watergate. Flunky is too young to know anything about Roosevelt putting Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps but I'm sure that queer is absolutely fine with that while he could be assault on Nixon. He know nothing at all about the man but would be standing in line with Krygowski and Liebermann to condemn him.
> > >
> > Nixon was the president uniquely skilled in foreign relations and policy. He easily found Henry Kissinger, the world's leading historian and proponent of balance of power politics, the underlying principle of mutual assured destruction; Nixon gave Kissinger the opportunity to practice what he preached. Nixon did some great things, and in time will go down as one of the great Presidents. Watergate was mickey mouse skullduggery compared to the shit the Kennedy bros got up to, like the assassination of the Diem brothers. Charles McCarry did a good job in The Tears of Autumn of explaining how it was the ritual elder of the Diem dynasty who procured the assassination of JFK in retaliation. -- AJ
> We almost lost our minds when Russia was moving into Cuba. But we moved into the Ukraine which is a similar predicament.
>
Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana
>

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 7:48:21 PM UTC, Radey Shouman wrote:
> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:35:05 -0500, Radey Shouman
> > <sho...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:56:28 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On 12/9/2023 10:23 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 19:14:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:19:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 17:35:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio..com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:59:14 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> rOn Sat, 9 Dec 2023 15:09:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 2:56:24?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Here that doughty, efficient and often successful fighter for
> >>>>>>>>>>> free speech, Mark Steyn, explains the Post-COVID excess
> >>>>>>>>>>> deaths around the world.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.steynonline.com/13963/the-known-unknowns
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Once more we grasp that Tom was right from the
> >>>>>>>>>>> beginning. Will you monkeys now apologise to Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rolling on the floor laughing out loud at the RBT clowns
> >>>>>>>>>>> being taken in by that conman Fauci.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Lou was just telling us that he doesn't like Trump because CNN
> >>>>>>>>>> thinks he's a meany for cutting off their government subsidies
> >>>>>>>>>> given to them by the Democrats so that they would report only
> >>>>>>>>>> good things about Democrats. That's a lot more important to
> >>>>>>>>>> him than 13% of his relatives dead because of a poisonous
> >>>>>>>>>> vaccine
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tommy, can you provide any proof of the excess Covid deaths that you
> >>>>>>>>> keep going on about?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't mean some idiot on you tube blathering on about something
> >>>>>>>>> he/she/it really knows nothing about, but a proper scientific study by
> >>>>>>>>> competent people of actual confirmed deaths due to the vaccination.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mortality statistics tend to be a running tabulation of deaths, which
> >>>>>>>> is usually a few months behind on publication and likely to require
> >>>>>>>> continuous corrections. Lacking anything better, the WHO (world
> >>>>>>>> health organization) is the best I can offer.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)"
> >>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The problem is that excess death calculations rely on a dubious
> >>>>>>>> assumption, that deaths from all causes other than Covid-19 remain
> >>>>>>>> constant. That's hardly the case when the statistics gathering
> >>>>>>>> organizations either shut down between 2020 and the end of 2022,
> >>>>>>>> became heavily politicized, or faked their numbers to avoid a local
> >>>>>>>> panic. There were other factors, like the shutdown of many hospital
> >>>>>>>> services, which delayed many procedures. The lack of international
> >>>>>>>> standards on collecting Covid-19 related data doesn't help much. If
> >>>>>>>> you look at the graphs in the above URL, the lines between the upper
> >>>>>>>> and lower uncertainty bounds are huge. In other words, the "data" is
> >>>>>>>> really an estimate (or best guess).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Here's the WHO graphs for just the USA:
> >>>>>>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-daily-economist-single-entity>
> >>>>>>>> 95% uncertainty upper and 0% lower bounds are still widely separated.
> >>>>>>>> For the USA, that's current +/- 1,000 deaths per week.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My guess is that you won't reply as there is no proof of excessive
> >>>>>>>>> deaths, well except for your imagination which is neither scientific
> >>>>>>>>> or competent.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, since Tom's reply is likely to be politicized, perhaps a
> >>>>>>>> pre-emptive strike might be amusing:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in
> >>>>>>>> Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic" (July 24, 2023)
> >>>>>>>> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617>
> >>>>>>>> "In this cohort study evaluating 538,159 deaths in individuals aged 25
> >>>>>>>> years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December
> >>>>>>>> 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters
> >>>>>>>> than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all
> >>>>>>>> adults, but not before."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Translation: Vaccines don't kill Republicans. It's the lack of
> >>>>>>>> vaccines that kill Republicans.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But you are comparing Covid Deaths. Tom is talking about deaths due
> >>>>>>> solely to having received a vaccination
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry, I missed that. As I understand it, the author is disappointed
> >>>>>> that the Covid death rate failed to drop to the comparatively low
> >>>>>> levels of pre-pandemic (before Jan 2023) incidence. Note the title,
> >>>>>> which suggest uncertainty:
> >>>>>> "An analysis of excess mortality based on age and sex; the possible
> >>>>>> role of Covid-19, delayed care and vaccines"
> >>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herman-Steigstra/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines/links/655c7aecce88b87031fbc73a/An-analysis-of-excess-mortality-based-on-age-and-sex-the-possible-role-of-Covid-19-delayed-care-and-vaccines.pdf>
> >>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375774174_An_analysis_of_excess_mortality_based_on_age_and_sex_the_possible_role_of_Covid-19_delayed_care_and_vaccines>
> >>>>>> (12 pages). Note that CBS is "Statistics Netherlands":
> >>>>>> <https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the author answered his own question on Pg 4.
> >>>>>> "In this graph, as an example, we see the baseline calculated for 2020
> >>>>>> for both men and women. What is immediately striking is the sharp peak
> >>>>>> among 75-year-olds. This is a consequence of the baby boom, the birth
> >>>>>> wave in 1946 immediately after the Second World War."
> >>>>>> In other words, he discovered that more men had died during WWII than
> >>>>>> women, and that the baseline death rates are finally catching up with
> >>>>>> the baby boomers. In other words, if he can't win at football, just
> >>>>>> move the goal posts. Redefining the baseline death rates to fit his
> >>>>>> conclusions is the equivalent to moving the goal posts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Most his contentions are summarized in one sentence on Pg 9:
> >>>>>> "We see here clearly and unmistakably that there was more excess
> >>>>>> mortality in all the years in which vaccination was carried out than
> >>>>>> in the year without vaccination."
> >>>>>> This is the basis of the authors uncertain conclusion that Covid was
> >>>>>> gone by the end of 2022 which should have reduced the excess deaths,
> >>>>>> but didn't. Never mind various Covid variants, long Covid, creative
> >>>>>> fatality tracking, delayed medical care, and such, all of which
> >>>>>> persist to this day in some degree.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pg 9 again: "The risk of mortality is increasing every year, while
> >>>>>> there is hardly any corona anymore. There are obviously no complete
> >>>>>> annual figures for 2023 yet, but the figures so far paint a picture
> >>>>>> identical to 2022."
> >>>>>> In other words, he admits to guessing based on incomplete statistics
> >>>>>> and continues to adjust the baseline death rates to meet his
> >>>>>> expectations. I would have been happier if he had used the baseline
> >>>>>> numbers in the same manner as the WHO and other agencies, and then
> >>>>>> applied his assumptions. Instead, he first adjusts his baseline
> >>>>>> numbers to meet his expectations and then wonders why they still
> >>>>>> didn't produce his expected results. Also, this is for only one
> >>>>>> country and does not represent the situation in other countries.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For Tom it doesn't matter whether it's the fox or the rabbit, Tommy is
> >>>>> faster then either.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In another post he has Bidden bombing the Nord Stream gas pipeline,
> >>>>> which from all I read is totally without any proof at all, although
> >>>>> there are rumors that it was a Ukraine plot... carried out by a group
> >>>>> from, Poland :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You don't know that. Nor do I.
> >>>>
> >>>>A successful CIA or special services operation leaves hints
> >>>>to a different conclusion such as 'Polish agents'.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know what? That there is, apparently, no proof who did it? Or
> >>> that there is rumors that the Ukrainian did it?
> >>>
> >>> As for CIA operations leaving hints, I don't think so, at least not in
> >>> many cases. The bombing of Indonesia, for example, the pilot that they
> >>> caught was deliberately carrying identification in spite of orders NOT
> >>> to do so. The U2 flights over Russia and Cuba? The Air America flights
> >>> over Vietnam and Laos?
> >>>
> >>> Certainly the aircraft were Sterilized" so that the U.S. could
> >>> officially deny they the were the culprits but nothing was done to
> >>> imply that somebody else did the deed.
> >>
> >>Pulling crazy shit and then arranging the blame to fall on someone else
> >>is absolutely SOP for intelligence services. See for instance
> >>"Operation Gladio".
> >
> > If I'm not mistaken "Operation Gladio" was intended to form secret
> > "stay behind" units in Soviet dominated areas, not to cause blame to
> > fall on someone else. Rather like the support G.B. gave to many "Under
> > Ground" (often Communist) groups in German occupied Europe.
> Almost. It was intended to form secret "stay behind" units in areas
> that *might* have become Soviet dominated, eg Italy. In the event the
> Soviets did not arrive. It seems almost certain that the various Western
> intelligence operatives participating in operation Gladio bombed some
> folks, killed some carabinieri, and did other false flag terrorist acts
> in order to blame the Italian communists.
>
Wherever they may or may not have done it, they sure as hell didn't do it in Italy after, where the war the entire ex-OSS Army Intelligence establishment was a couple of officers and a handful of rotating regular army sergeants. They did make a quiet revolution, sure, but they made it by splitting off moderate socialists from hardcore communists, and their tool was straightforward, money for posters, in return for which they got the soft left to help the Christian Democrats with their organisation, which was somewhere between in brutalizedtatters to non-existent after the Mussolini years. This money for posters business was such a success that through the 1950's and into the 1960, that remained CIA's main effort in Italy. Sure, right after the war they did some underhand stuff that in those innocent days they may not have liked Congress to know about. For instance, the Dulles bros sister Eleanor, an expert in economic warfare, was a wheel in the State Department and the bee in her bonnet was the possibility of a revolution by the starving Austrians. She knew where there were 100 Lipizaners, which some of her chums in Austria could grab to trade for food. Her other chums in Italy cut a deal with the Camorra (northern Italian version of the Mafia) for enough trainloads of vegetables and even meat to get all the Lipizaners at once, and 98 of the white horses ended up in the States. So why did these intelligence operatives do it? Well, their discretionary budget from the Army was $5000 -- those are all the zeroes -- which they built up to 50K by buying cocoa in the PX and selling it on the black market. It was far from enough. Dulles mentioned the needs of "our boys" at the Brook Club (Ivy Leaguers with an interest in intelligence) and the hat went round and collected 200K. That's what they used to buy the food that was exchanged for the Lipizaners.
>
Andre Jute
Deeply knowledgeable about rare and wonderful trivia.
>

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.

87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:

"315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
"The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
lawmakers."

"U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
casualties"
<https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
"A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
intelligence said on Tuesday."
"Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
the source said."
"The real figure was likely higher, they said."

More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>
> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>
> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
> lawmakers."
>
> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
> casualties"
> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
> intelligence said on Tuesday."
> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
> the source said."
> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>
> More of the same:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>
>

That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:12:19 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
> >
> > 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
> >
> > "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
> > Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
> > <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
> > "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
> > it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
> > lawmakers."
> >
> > "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
> > casualties"
> > <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
> > "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
> > has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
> > personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
> > intelligence said on Tuesday."
> > "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
> > the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
> > the source said."
> > "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
> >
> > More of the same:
> > <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
> >
> >
> That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
More of the low IQ thinking from Liebermann. As we all know, Russia now controls 85% of the Ukraine because all of the Russians are dead, killed by Ukrainians that have to hire mercenaries to fight for them.

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>
>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>
>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>> lawmakers."
>>
>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>> casualties"
>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>> the source said."
>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>
>> More of the same:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>

>That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.

Thanks and that's good to know. Unfortunately, most of the major
printed news media has disappeared from the vending boxes in front of
markets, stores and offices in my area. What's left are the locals.
That doesn't matter as I prefer to read my news online. Let's see if
there's any mention in the competition:

Nothing here (yet) as of noon PST, Dec 13, 2023.
<https://www.rt.com/russia/>
<https://english.pravda.ru/russia/>
<https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/>

This mention the 315,000 killed or wounded:
<https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/12/us-intel-says-315k-russian-casualties-in-ukraine-congress-source-a83402>
(You'll need to turn off any ad-blockers to read it.)

We will need to wait a while for comments from Russia. My guess(tm)
is that 90% casualty rate is much too high to be realistic and that
Russia has far more than 360,000 personnel available from a total
Russian military of 2.2 million. Russia is also continuing to provide
replacements giving some credibility to the 315,000 loss figure:
"Russia boosts size of armed forces by 170,000 troops"
<https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/russia-to-boost-size-of-armed-forces-by-170000-troops>
Notice that the article claims that Russia now has 1.3 million troops
involved in the war. Someone is lying about the numbers but I don't
know who (yet).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:34:24 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>More of the low IQ thinking from Liebermann.

Of course, you claimed an IQ of 145 and are therefore a genius.

>As we all know,

Who are you to tell everyone what they know?

>Russia now controls 85% of the Ukraine because all of the Russians are dead,
>killed by Ukrainians that have to hire mercenaries to fight for them.

Mercenaries have been involved in the war since 2014.

"Foreign fighters in the Russo-Ukrainian War"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_fighters_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War>

The largest number claimed was 20,000 volunteers for the International
Legion for the Defence of Ukraine:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Legion_(Ukraine)>
However, the NY Times claimed that there were only 1,500 volunteers in
Mar 2023. The number involved are the proverbial drop in the bucket.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 12:12:52 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 3:00:03?PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Nothing here (yet) as of noon PST, Dec 13, 2023.
>> <https://www.rt.com/russia/>
>> <https://english.pravda.ru/russia/>
>> <https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/>
>
>Aljazeera has it:
>https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/13/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-658
>6th bullet point under "Fighting"

Thanks. Al Jazeera is allegedly "neutral" but does tend to favor the
leftist point of view.
<https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/>
WSJ puts it on the front page, while Al Jazeera
buries among the bullet points. Maybe Al Jazeera will provide better
coverage later. I'll check again later.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/13/2023 1:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:12:19 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>
>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>
>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>> lawmakers."
>>>
>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>> casualties"
>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>> the source said."
>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>
>>> More of the same:
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>>>
>>>
>> That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.

> More of the low IQ thinking from Liebermann. As we all know, Russia now controls 85% of the Ukraine because all of the Russians are dead, killed by Ukrainians that have to hire mercenaries to fight for them.

I will admit to being a news junkie but even a casual
perusal of world news once in a while would be enough to
know the current lines:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/25261

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/13/2023 1:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>
>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>
>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>> lawmakers."
>>>
>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>> casualties"
>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>> the source said."
>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>
>>> More of the same:
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>
>> That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.
>
> Thanks and that's good to know. Unfortunately, most of the major
> printed news media has disappeared from the vending boxes in front of
> markets, stores and offices in my area. What's left are the locals.
> That doesn't matter as I prefer to read my news online. Let's see if
> there's any mention in the competition:
>
> Nothing here (yet) as of noon PST, Dec 13, 2023.
> <https://www.rt.com/russia/>
> <https://english.pravda.ru/russia/>
> <https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/>
>
> This mention the 315,000 killed or wounded:
> <https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/12/us-intel-says-315k-russian-casualties-in-ukraine-congress-source-a83402>
> (You'll need to turn off any ad-blockers to read it.)
>
> We will need to wait a while for comments from Russia. My guess(tm)
> is that 90% casualty rate is much too high to be realistic and that
> Russia has far more than 360,000 personnel available from a total
> Russian military of 2.2 million. Russia is also continuing to provide
> replacements giving some credibility to the 315,000 loss figure:
> "Russia boosts size of armed forces by 170,000 troops"
> <https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/russia-to-boost-size-of-armed-forces-by-170000-troops>
> Notice that the article claims that Russia now has 1.3 million troops
> involved in the war. Someone is lying about the numbers but I don't
> know who (yet).
>
>
>

Putin also announced in November that the wants to 'enlarge'
Russian military from just over a million* to 1,350,000*.

How is that going?

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/russia/moscow-fulfills-army-recruitment-target-amidst-russia-ukraine-tensions/

or maybe

https://www.worldreportnow.com/news/a-russian-official-said-soldiers-are-dying-in-large-numbers-but-hell-get-in-trouble-if-he-doesnt-send-more-to-fight-leaked-video-shows/56376/#gsc.tab=0

*when you write 'Someone is lying about the numbers' that
may be everyone, all the time, about everything.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 15:05:31 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/13/2023 1:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>>
>>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>>
>>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>>> lawmakers."
>>>>
>>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>>> casualties"
>>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>>> the source said."
>>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>>
>>>> More of the same:
>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>>
>>> That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.
>>
>> Thanks and that's good to know. Unfortunately, most of the major
>> printed news media has disappeared from the vending boxes in front of
>> markets, stores and offices in my area. What's left are the locals.
>> That doesn't matter as I prefer to read my news online. Let's see if
>> there's any mention in the competition:
>>
>> Nothing here (yet) as of noon PST, Dec 13, 2023.
>> <https://www.rt.com/russia/>
>> <https://english.pravda.ru/russia/>
>> <https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/>
>>
>> This mention the 315,000 killed or wounded:
>> <https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/12/us-intel-says-315k-russian-casualties-in-ukraine-congress-source-a83402>
>> (You'll need to turn off any ad-blockers to read it.)
>>
>> We will need to wait a while for comments from Russia. My guess(tm)
>> is that 90% casualty rate is much too high to be realistic and that
>> Russia has far more than 360,000 personnel available from a total
>> Russian military of 2.2 million. Russia is also continuing to provide
>> replacements giving some credibility to the 315,000 loss figure:
>> "Russia boosts size of armed forces by 170,000 troops"
>> <https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/russia-to-boost-size-of-armed-forces-by-170000-troops>
>> Notice that the article claims that Russia now has 1.3 million troops
>> involved in the war. Someone is lying about the numbers but I don't
>> know who (yet).
>>
>>
>>
>
>Putin also announced in November that the wants to 'enlarge'
>Russian military from just over a million* to 1,350,000*.
>
>How is that going?
>
>https://bnnbreaking.com/world/russia/moscow-fulfills-army-recruitment-target-amidst-russia-ukraine-tensions/
>
>or maybe
>
>https://www.worldreportnow.com/news/a-russian-official-said-soldiers-are-dying-in-large-numbers-but-hell-get-in-trouble-if-he-doesnt-send-more-to-fight-leaked-video-shows/56376/#gsc.tab=0
>
>*when you write 'Someone is lying about the numbers' that
>may be everyone, all the time, about everything.

"Official" numbers range from the UK estimate of 70,000 Russian deaths
to 150,000 deaths, estimated by Ukrainian government. For the "good
guys" 10 - 15,000 deaths, Ukraine estimate, to 70,000 deaths, U.S.
estimate :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:59:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>
>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>
>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>> lawmakers."
>>>
>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>> casualties"
>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>> the source said."
>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>
>>> More of the same:
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>

The numbers don't make any sense.

87% of prewar army lost?

Looking at U.S. figures and depending on how you do your calculations
about 35% of the U.S. Army are actual "Combat Forces".

If the Russians have an air forces then the numbers get even more
mysterious, It is difficult to compute the number of support troops
for every combat airplane but one indication might be that there are
2,580 USAF names inscribed on the Vietnam Wall. Out of something like
57,000 names

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/13/2023 7:11 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:59:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>>
>>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>>
>>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>>> lawmakers."
>>>>
>>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>>> casualties"
>>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>>> the source said."
>>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>>
>>>> More of the same:
>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>
> The numbers don't make any sense.
>
> 87% of prewar army lost?
>
> Looking at U.S. figures and depending on how you do your calculations
> about 35% of the U.S. Army are actual "Combat Forces".
>
> If the Russians have an air forces then the numbers get even more
> mysterious, It is difficult to compute the number of support troops
> for every combat airplane but one indication might be that there are
> 2,580 USAF names inscribed on the Vietnam Wall. Out of something like
> 57,000 names
>

Yes, as it's been nearly two years and both recruits and
conscripts have been thrown in over that time.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>
>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>
>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia’s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>> lawmakers."
>>
>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>> casualties"
>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>> the source said."
>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>
>> More of the same:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>>
>>
>
>That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.

Yes but the numbers are for "killed and injured" and while "injured"
is difficult to determine as the usual count is "deaths" I did find
one site that stated that during the Vietnam foolishness, "58,148 were
killed and 304,000 wounded..."
In that case of the 362,148 "casualties" 16% were deaths.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> This administration has been making open acts that could start a nuclear war,

Yeah, because something the US did justifies the russian invasion of Ukraine. Care to enlighten us?

> Therefore they have to lie about the capabilities of the the Russian Army.. The pure unadulterated lying about the Russian army is rife throughout the Slime Stream Media.

Yet you can offer no support for your claims to the contrary.

> Russia controls 80% of the Ukraine

No, they don't, you fucking moron. Here's a good primer on the timeline of the occupation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

Since we know you have an aversion to looking at anything that uses actual words (despite the ludicrous claim of reading out three libraries), here a graphic that appears about 3/4 down the article:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/1FDA/production/_131745180_ukraine_control_quad_15_11_23-nc.png.webp

> , The Ukrainians of military age have LEFT the Ukraine for the US open borders.

Most reports say the US has accepted a bit over a 250K refugees since the start of the war. This is out of a bit over 8 million in total.

> So the only people that oppose the Russians are mercenaries who are very expensive and YOU are paying them to so nothing more than hold the final 20% of the Ukraine.

Oh, you mean like these guys?
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dismayed-moscows-war-russian-volunteers-joining-ukrainian-ranks-105648729

On Thu Dec 14 08:11:51 2023 John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:59:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >>On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
> >>>
> >>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
> >>>
> >>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
> >>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
> >>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
> >>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia?s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
> >>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
> >>> lawmakers."
> >>>
> >>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
> >>> casualties"
> >>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
> >>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
> >>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
> >>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
> >>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
> >>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
> >>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
> >>> the source said."
> >>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
> >>>
> >>> More of the same:
> >>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>
> The numbers don't make any sense.
>
> 87% of prewar army lost?
>
> Looking at U.S. figures and depending on how you do your calculations
> about 35% of the U.S. Army are actual "Combat Forces".
>
> If the Russians have an air forces then the numbers get even more
> mysterious, It is difficult to compute the number of support troops
> for every combat airplane but one indication might be that there are
> 2,580 USAF names inscribed on the Vietnam Wall. Out of something like
> 57,000 names
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.
>

John, the Ukrainians are drafting 16 and 50 year olds just like the NAZI's were doing in 1944. WHY did the NAZI's do that and don't you think that the Ukrainians arw doing it for the msame reasons?

On Wed Dec 13 11:59:50 2023 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
> >>
> >> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
> >>
> >> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
> >> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
> >> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
> >> "The figure represents 87% of Russia?s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
> >> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
> >> lawmakers."
> >>
> >> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
> >> casualties"
> >> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
> >> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
> >> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
> >> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
> >> intelligence said on Tuesday."
> >> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
> >> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
> >> the source said."
> >> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
> >>
> >> More of the same:
> >> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>
> >That's on the front page of my dead tree media WSJ this morning.
>
> Thanks and that's good to know. Unfortunately, most of the major
> printed news media has disappeared from the vending boxes in front of
> markets, stores and offices in my area. What's left are the locals.
> That doesn't matter as I prefer to read my news online. Let's see if
> there's any mention in the competition:
>
> Nothing here (yet) as of noon PST, Dec 13, 2023.
> <https://www.rt.com/russia/>
> <https://english.pravda.ru/russia/>
> <https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/>
>
> This mention the 315,000 killed or wounded:
> <https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/12/us-intel-says-315k-russian-casualties-in-ukraine-congress-source-a83402>
> (You'll need to turn off any ad-blockers to read it.)
>
> We will need to wait a while for comments from Russia. My guess(tm)
> is that 90% casualty rate is much too high to be realistic and that
> Russia has far more than 360,000 personnel available from a total
> Russian military of 2.2 million. Russia is also continuing to provide
> replacements giving some credibility to the 315,000 loss figure:
> "Russia boosts size of armed forces by 170,000 troops"
> <https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/russia-to-boost-size-of-armed-forces-by-170000-troops>
> Notice that the article claims that Russia now has 1.3 million troops
> involved in the war. Someone is lying about the numbers but I don't
> know who (yet).

Jeff, how many years did it take you to get a four year degree? And why was that? How many years did you8 serve in the US military and which branch was that again?

On Fri Dec 15 04:57:48 2023 "funkma...@hotmail.com" wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:29:11AM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > This administration has been making open acts that could start a nuclear war,
>
> Yeah, because something the US did justifies the russian invasion of Ukraine. Care to enlighten us?

Flunky,the UKRANIANS starte4d this war and Putin warned them for 6 months to stop murdering Russian Nationals who hsd legally bought farms in the Ukraine! Are you so fuckintg stupid that your remory doesn't go back just SEVEN years?

> > Therefore they have to lie about the capabilities of the the Russian Army. The pure unadulterated lying about the Russian army is rife throughout the Slime Stream Media.
>
> Yet you can offer no support for your claims to the contrary.
>
> > Russia controls 80% of the Ukraine
>
> No, they don't, you fucking moron. Here's a good primer on the timeline of the occupation.

Are you so slow that you couldn't read Andrew's Ukrainian map?

> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
>
> Since we know you have an aversion to looking at anything that uses actual words (despite the ludicrous claim of reading out three libraries), here a graphic that appears about 3/4 down the article:
>
> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/1FDA/production/_131745180_ukraine_control_quad_15_11_23-nc.png.webp
>
> > , The Ukrainians of military age have LEFT the Ukraine for the US open borders.
>
> Most reports say the US has accepted a bit over a 250K refugees since the start of the war. This is out of a bit over 8 million in total.
>
> > So the only people that oppose the Russians are mercenaries who are very expensive and YOU are paying them to so nothing more than hold the final 20% of the Ukraine.
>
> Oh, you mean like these guys?
> https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dismayed-moscows-war-russian-volunteers-joining-ukrainian-ranks-105648729

Flunky believes ABC - the same people that claim that we're zall going to die from climate change. The same people that told us that the Covid-19 vaccines are "safe and effective". The same people who have quoted many times "fact checkers" who do nothing but mimic the Administration. On a good day you have problems spelling. No wonder you have problems thinking that someone else can read.

On 4/18/2024 1:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thu Dec 14 08:11:51 2023 John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:59:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:12:14 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/13/2023 12:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The CIA has turned into one of the most evil organizations on this Earth. There was just another article published the other day claiming that 85% of Russian troops have died in the Ukraine war. That is unmitigated lies propagated by the CIA.
>>>>>
>>>>> 87%. Some articles, which you could have easily cited, but didn't:
>>>>>
>>>>> "315,000 Russian Troops Have Been Killed Or Injured In Ukraine, U.S.
>>>>> Says - Far More Than Russia Claims"
>>>>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/12/315000-russian-troops-have-been-killed-or-injured-in-ukraine-us-says-far-more-than-russia-claims/?sh=6e41dc1feea5>
>>>>> "The figure represents 87% of Russia?s roughly 360,000 pre-war troops
>>>>> it had in February 2022, according to the report provided to
>>>>> lawmakers."
>>>>>
>>>>> "U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000
>>>>> casualties"
>>>>> <https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/>
>>>>> "A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war
>>>>> has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the
>>>>> personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the
>>>>> intelligence said on Tuesday."
>>>>> "Since then, the report found, 315,000 Russian troops, or about 87% of
>>>>> the total with which it started the war, have been killed or injured,
>>>>> the source said."
>>>>> "The real figure was likely higher, they said."
>>>>>
>>>>> More of the same:
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=315%2C000+Russian+Troops&tbm=nws>
>>
>> The numbers don't make any sense.
>>
>> 87% of prewar army lost?
>>
>> Looking at U.S. figures and depending on how you do your calculations
>> about 35% of the U.S. Army are actual "Combat Forces".
>>
>> If the Russians have an air forces then the numbers get even more
>> mysterious, It is difficult to compute the number of support troops
>> for every combat airplane but one indication might be that there are
>> 2,580 USAF names inscribed on the Vietnam Wall. Out of something like
>> 57,000 names
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>>
>
>
>
> John, the Ukrainians are drafting 16 and 50 year olds just like the NAZI's were doing in 1944. WHY did the NAZI's do that and don't you think that the Ukrainians arw doing it for the msame reasons?

Ukraine draft age recently dropped form 27 to 25 years old,
men only,
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/18/2024 2:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Fri Dec 15 04:57:48 2023 "funkma...@hotmail.com" wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:29:11AM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> This administration has been making open acts that could start a nuclear war,
>>
>> Yeah, because something the US did justifies the russian invasion of Ukraine. Care to enlighten us?
>
>
> Flunky,the UKRANIANS starte4d this war and Putin warned them for 6 months to stop murdering Russian Nationals who hsd legally bought farms in the Ukraine! Are you so fuckintg stupid that your remory doesn't go back just SEVEN years?
>
>
>>> Therefore they have to lie about the capabilities of the the Russian Army. The pure unadulterated lying about the Russian army is rife throughout the Slime Stream Media.
>>
>> Yet you can offer no support for your claims to the contrary.
>>
>>> Russia controls 80% of the Ukraine
>>
>> No, they don't, you fucking moron. Here's a good primer on the timeline of the occupation.
>
>
> Are you so slow that you couldn't read Andrew's Ukrainian map?
>
>
>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
>>
>> Since we know you have an aversion to looking at anything that uses actual words (despite the ludicrous claim of reading out three libraries), here a graphic that appears about 3/4 down the article:
>>
>> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/1FDA/production/_131745180_ukraine_control_quad_15_11_23-nc.png.webp
>>
>>> , The Ukrainians of military age have LEFT the Ukraine for the US open borders.
>>
>> Most reports say the US has accepted a bit over a 250K refugees since the start of the war. This is out of a bit over 8 million in total.
>>
>>> So the only people that oppose the Russians are mercenaries who are very expensive and YOU are paying them to so nothing more than hold the final 20% of the Ukraine.
>>
>> Oh, you mean like these guys?
>> https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dismayed-moscows-war-russian-volunteers-joining-ukrainian-ranks-105648729
>
>
>
> Flunky believes ABC - the same people that claim that we're zall going to die from climate change. The same people that told us that the Covid-19 vaccines are "safe and effective". The same people who have quoted many times "fact checkers" who do nothing but mimic the Administration. On a good day you have problems spelling. No wonder you have problems thinking that someone else can read.
>
>

Global Warming is real, it's just running late:
https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2024-04-16-watch-climate-nuts-in-1982-predict-florida-will-be-underwater-any-day-now/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/18/2024 3:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Fri Dec 15 04:57:48 2023 "funkma...@hotmail.com" wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:29:11AM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> This administration has been making open acts that could start a nuclear war,
>>
>> Yeah, because something the US did justifies the russian invasion of Ukraine. Care to enlighten us?
>
>
> Flunky,the UKRANIANS starte4d this war and Putin warned them for 6 months to stop murdering Russian Nationals who hsd legally bought farms in the Ukraine! Are you so fuckintg stupid that your remory doesn't go back just SEVEN years?

Sure thing, dumbass - you go right on swallowing all the propaganda
being fed to you by fuckhead carlson and the russian propaganda
ministry. None of that happened. meanwhile, that wasn't what I asked you
for, you braindead moron. Read it again an concentrate this time.

>
>
>>> Therefore they have to lie about the capabilities of the the Russian Army. The pure unadulterated lying about the Russian army is rife throughout the Slime Stream Media.
>>
>> Yet you can offer no support for your claims to the contrary.
>>
>>> Russia controls 80% of the Ukraine
>>
>> No, they don't, you fucking moron. Here's a good primer on the timeline of the occupation.
>
>
> Are you so slow that you couldn't read Andrew's Ukrainian map?

Yup, his map showed nothing of the kind.

>
>
>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
>>
>> Since we know you have an aversion to looking at anything that uses actual words (despite the ludicrous claim of reading out three libraries), here a graphic that appears about 3/4 down the article:
>>
>> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/1FDA/production/_131745180_ukraine_control_quad_15_11_23-nc.png.webp
>>
>>> , The Ukrainians of military age have LEFT the Ukraine for the US open borders.
>>
>> Most reports say the US has accepted a bit over a 250K refugees since the start of the war. This is out of a bit over 8 million in total.
>>
>>> So the only people that oppose the Russians are mercenaries who are very expensive and YOU are paying them to so nothing more than hold the final 20% of the Ukraine.
>>
>> Oh, you mean like these guys?
>> https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dismayed-moscows-war-russian-volunteers-joining-ukrainian-ranks-105648729
>
>
>
> Flunky believes ABC

tommy dumbass swallows every bit of OANN jism spurted in his general
direction

> the same people that claim that we're zall going to die from climate change.

More spooge you swallowed from watching OANN - no one ever said that.

> The same people that told us that the Covid-19 vaccines are "safe and effective".

“Look, the results of the vaccine are very good, and if you do get
(Covid), it’s a very minor form. People aren’t dying when they take the
vaccine,” - Donald trump interview with Candace Owen, December 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/23/politics/trump-vaccine-covid-effectiveness/index.html

> The same people who have quoted many times "fact checkers" who do nothing but mimic the Administration.

oh, you mean like this?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/15m-jobs-biden/

and this?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/google-interfering-trump-emails/

and this?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-republicans-dumbest-group-voters/

> On a good day you have problems spelling. No wonder you have problems thinking that someone else can read.

lol. In this message, you wrote hsd, fuckintg, remory, and zall. Sure
sparky, go ahead and use the excuse these were just typos - still
doesn't explain why you didn't catch it. Care to point out any spelling
mistakes I've made?

You've been a useless arrogant asshole your entire life. We had a few
weeks of peace here while we all secretly hoped you were dead, but
instead you had to come back and immediately prove your worth - making
stupid, ignorant, and demonstrably false posts in a forum that supposed
to dedicated to cycling.

You wrote once a little while ago that with people like me and frank
gone, this group would get back to posts about cycling. Well, gee. You
were gone for a few weeks, and what did we get? nothing but posts about
cycling.

You're an idiot, a liar, and the sole reason people don't want to visit
this forum.

Go back to being dead.

>
>

--
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