I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get working
brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could have done
this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I wasted a
couple weeks looking for other solutions.

The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive style
lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal with this
again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up a truck and
haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and some modestly
substantial grades and weave through the Salt River Canyon two nuts came
off.

When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind. I
had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty and
all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced at the
mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a hub was
on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead with a lot
of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull out somewhere
west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be an easy fix.
Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of the trailer
up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it tight. Then I
whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE STORE into the
search window.

The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.

There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just two)
9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them. With that,
a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red high strength
Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in the parking lot to
fix it.

Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every brake
check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the back I
made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River Canyon
almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a front
strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went over the
frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I might have
lost the truck.

I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.

Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.

Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to get
that truck back off the trailer.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>
> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
> some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
> Canyon two nuts came off.
>
> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
> and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
> at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
> with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
> out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
> STORE into the search window.
>
> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
> where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>
> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
> the parking lot to fix it.
>
> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
> might have lost the truck.
>
> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>
> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>
> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
> get that truck back off the trailer.
>
Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uvc4o3$2hrcg$1@dont-email.me...

The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive style
lock nuts.

-------------------------

Google isn't telling me what a "destructive" lock nut is.

On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
>> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
>> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>
>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
>> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
>> some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
>> Canyon two nuts came off.
>>
>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
>> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
>> and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
>> at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
>> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
>> with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
>> out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
>> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
>> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
>> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
>> STORE into the search window.
>>
>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
>> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
>> where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>
>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>
>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
>> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
>> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
>> might have lost the truck.
>>
>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
>> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>
>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>
>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
>> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
>> get that truck back off the trailer.
>>
> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
> if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
> was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
> new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
> reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
> original ones in the end and no problems.
>

I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 4/12/2024 1:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:uvc4o3$2hrcg$1@dont-email.me...
> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive style
> lock nuts.
> -------------------------
>
> Google isn't telling me what a "destructive" lock nut is.

I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 12/04/2024 21:36, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you
>>> could have done this or that and not replaced them. They were
>>> oddballs and I wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>>
>>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick
>>> up a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains
>>> and some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt
>>> River Canyon two nuts came off.
>>>
>>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire
>>> behind. I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was
>>> running empty and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a
>>> load. I glanced at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires
>>> so bad I thought a hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old
>>> stock yard just ahead with a lot of flat ground out front where I
>>> was able to safely pull out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle
>>> coming loose turned out to be an easy fix. Since I was still running
>>> empty I just jacked the side of the trailer up, rolled the axle back
>>> in place, and ratchet strapped it tight. Then I whipped out my cell
>>> phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE STORE into the search window.
>>>
>>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was
>>> still attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't
>>> wondering where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>>
>>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>>
>>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest
>>> of Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it
>>> went over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight
>>> or I might have lost the truck.
>>>
>>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and
>>> did everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>>
>>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me
>>> everything they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home.
>>> Now I have to get that truck back off the trailer.
>>>
>> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
>> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I
>> wonder if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about
>> a guy that was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and
>> decided to use new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when
>> tightened before he reach the correct torque, apparently made in
>> Asia, he re-used the original ones in the end and no problems.
>>
>
> I know you guys have to know what I am talking about.  There is a type
> of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
> threads when installed to lock it in place.  These have square punch
> marks on the flat.

Is this the type of nut
https://www.fastenright.com/general-fixings/philidas-mkv-nut/sl14 , one
of many designs of all metal lock nuts. I actually have quite a few of
those in M5 and M6 for certain applications.

On 4/12/2024 3:36 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
>>> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and
>>> I wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>>
>>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick
>>> up a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains
>>> and some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
>>> Canyon two nuts came off.
>>>
>>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire
>>> behind. I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was
>>> running empty and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a
>>> load. I glanced at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires
>>> so bad I thought a hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old
>>> stock yard just ahead with a lot of flat ground out front where I was
>>> able to safely pull out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming
>>> loose turned out to be an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I
>>> just jacked the side of the trailer up, rolled the axle back in
>>> place, and ratchet strapped it tight. Then I whipped out my cell
>>> phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE STORE into the search window.
>>>
>>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was
>>> still attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't
>>> wondering where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>>
>>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>>
>>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest
>>> of Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
>>> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
>>> might have lost the truck.
>>>
>>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
>>> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>>
>>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
>>> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
>>> get that truck back off the trailer.
>>>
>> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
>> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
>> if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy
>> that was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to
>> use new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before
>> he reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
>> original ones in the end and no problems.
>>
>
> I know you guys have to know what I am talking about.  There is a type
> of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
> threads when installed to lock it in place.  These have square punch
> marks on the flat.

I know exactly what you're talking about and I hate them . Lock
washers and LocTite work better and don't mangle the bolts . Like the
bolts that hold the bed on my '86 GMC pickup . With almost 40 years of
rust and road crud . I'd like you to meet my angle grinder ... because
the last 4 are too close to the gas tank for the Blue Wrench .
--
Snag
"They may take our lives but
they'll never take our freedom."
William Wallace

On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
>>> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
>>> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>>
>>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
>>> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
>>> some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
>>> Canyon two nuts came off.
>>>
>>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
>>> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
>>> and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
>>> at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
>>> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
>>> with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
>>> out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
>>> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
>>> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
>>> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
>>> STORE into the search window.
>>>
>>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
>>> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
>>> where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>>
>>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>>
>>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
>>> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
>>> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
>>> might have lost the truck.
>>>
>>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
>>> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>>
>>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
>>> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
>>> get that truck back off the trailer.
>>>
>> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
>> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
>> if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
>> was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
>> new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
>> reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
>> original ones in the end and no problems.
>>
>
>I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
>of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
>threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
>marks on the flat.

You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:

..<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>

Joe Gwinn

On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
>>> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>>>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
>>>> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
>>>> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>>>
>>>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>>>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>>>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
>>>> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
>>>> some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
>>>> Canyon two nuts came off.
>>>>
>>>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>>>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
>>>> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
>>>> and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
>>>> at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
>>>> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
>>>> with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
>>>> out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
>>>> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
>>>> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
>>>> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
>>>> STORE into the search window.
>>>>
>>>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>>>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
>>>> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
>>>> where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>>>
>>>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>>>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>>>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>>>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>>>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>>>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>>>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>>>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
>>>> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>>>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
>>>> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
>>>> might have lost the truck.
>>>>
>>>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>>>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
>>>> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
>>>> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
>>>> get that truck back off the trailer.
>>>>
>>> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
>>> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
>>> if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
>>> was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
>>> new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
>>> reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
>>> original ones in the end and no problems.
>>>
>>
>> I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
>> of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
>> threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
>> marks on the flat.
>
> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
> Nut:
>
> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>
> Joe Gwinn
>

Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
--
Snag
"They may take our lives but
they'll never take our freedom."
William Wallace

On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
>> On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
>>> working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
>>> have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
>>> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
>>>
>>> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
>>> style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
>>> with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
>>> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
>>> some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
>>> Canyon two nuts came off.
>>>
>>> When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
>>> axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
>>> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
>>> and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
>>> at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
>>> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
>>> with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
>>> out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
>>> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
>>> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
>>> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
>>> STORE into the search window.
>>>
>>> The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
>>> still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
>>> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
>>> where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
>>>
>>> There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
>>> two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
>>> With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
>>> high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
>>> the parking lot to fix it.
>>>
>>> Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
>>> brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
>>> back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
>>> Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
>>> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
>>> front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
>>> over the frame.  Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
>>> might have lost the truck.
>>>
>>> I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
>>> could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
>>> everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
>>>
>>> Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
>>> they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
>>> get that truck back off the trailer.
>>>
>> Good to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
>> destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
>> if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
>> was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
>> new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
>> reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
>> original ones in the end and no problems.
>>
>
>I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
>of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
>threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
>marks on the flat.
>--
>Bob La Londe
>CNC Molds N Stuff
They are called a "prevailing torque" "top distortion" nut -or a
"side distortion" nut. There are also "two way" locknuts Then there
arer "gripco" "crownlock" nuts
NONE of them are inherently "destructive" and all are considered
"re-useable"
There are also "stover" nuts and "FujiLoks"

All of these can be used in various temperature situations including
under cowl in aircrafdt - while "nylock" and "fiberlock" are
restricted in aviation - and should be used with caution anywhere
higher temps are anticipated.
The only "destructive" locknuts I've run into are stainless steel
nuts - paricularly on stainless fasteners - sometimes even with
anti-seize, which gall and microweld themselves together - - - - The
square punch marks centered on the flats sound like possibly 2 ways.
Not flanged nuts, right? What grade bolt? Using prevailing torque nuts
designed for a higher grade bolt CAN make them "destructive"

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uvc61j$2hrcg$3@dont-email.me...

On 4/12/2024 1:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uvc4o3$2hrcg$1@dont-email.me...
> The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive style
> lock nuts.
> -------------------------
>
> Google isn't telling me what a "destructive" lock nut is.

I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

-----------------------
There are several types, it wasn't clear which one you had a problem with.
I've read that running down long threads may loosen the side dimpled ones.

"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>
> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
> Nut:
>
> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>
> Joe Gwinn
>

Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
Snag

------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:uvdsg5$307pj$1@dont-email.me...

I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
----------------------------
https://www.boltscience.com/pages/twonuts.htm
"The performance of the two-nut method, when properly applied, provides a
superior locking capability when compared to many so-called lock nuts."

However the thin jam nut may require a thinner wrench, if you have one.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>
>On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>> Nut:
>>
>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>
>Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>Snag
>
>------------------------------------
>I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>lathe or drilled for safety wire.

The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.

Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.

Joe Gwinn

On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>> Nut:
>>>
>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>
>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>> Snag
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>
> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>
> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
> NASA study.
>
> Joe Gwinn

Well, I didn't actually say that. Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
runaway pullouts.

This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
into place (which surprised me).

These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
find.

I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.

I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
be useful.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:80jl1jpp7v5d5orgupl694set0rmo5orft@4ax.com...

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>
>On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>> Nut:
>>
>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>
>Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>Snag
>
>------------------------------------
>I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>lathe or drilled for safety wire.

The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.

Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.

Joe Gwinn
----------------------------------
https://www.aftfasteners.com/drake-two-piece-lock-nuts/

Good guess, Snag.

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:80jl1jpp7v5d5orgupl694set0rmo5orft@4ax.com...

The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.

Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.

Joe Gwinn
----------------------------
I'd gladly use them if the customer specified and paid for them. As both the
designer and the builder/repairman I used best practices in the design and
whatever was available on site for repairs, such as first aid kit Iodine for
thread locker.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>> Nut:
>>>>
>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>> Snag
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>
>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>
>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>> NASA study.
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
>Well, I didn't actually say that.

True, not those words, but this:

"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."

Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.

This would have terrified me for sure.

> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>runaway pullouts.
>
>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>into place (which surprised me).
>
>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>find.
>
>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>over the years.
>
>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>be useful.

I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.

By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.

And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.

Joe

On 4/13/2024 3:16 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>
>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>> Snag
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>
>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>
>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>> NASA study.
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>> Well, I didn't actually say that.
>
> True, not those words, but this:
>
> "Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
> mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>
> Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
> maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
> destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
> rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>
> This would have terrified me for sure.
>
>
>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>> for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>> reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>> runaway pullouts.
>>
>> This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>> regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>> into place (which surprised me).
>>
>> These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>> find.
>>
>> I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>> Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>> over the years.
>>
>> I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>> be useful.
>
> I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
> Nuts are insignificant.
>
>
> By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>
> And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
> did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
> Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
> shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
> distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>
> Joe

I must add a correction. Pair of 6K (3 ton) axles. Not 6 ton. Net
load with the payload of the truck (tongue weight on the goose neck
hitch) is probably around 14K, but I only licensed the trailer for 10K.

Before rolling out of Show Low I told somebody who stopped to check if I
was alright, "I am just double checking my load. I don't want the truck
to come loose, fall down the side of the mountain, and take me with it."

In the grades I stopped at every brake check and a few other places to
do a walk around feeling the hubs, tires, and the tension on each strap.
I did leave the winch cable in place on purpose with the intent it was
a safety backup if not necessarily a great one. I will do tie downs a
little differently in the future as well. I ran a single strap on the
front, which is strong enough, but when it parted except for the winch
cable there was nothing keeping the truck from rolling back except a
rather meager bit of friction from the parking brake. I guess the
parking brake was a second safety in case the strap broke, and the winch
clutch slipped. The truck had not moved. The straps in the back were
still tight. When I resecured it I used two straps in the front like I
probably should have to begin with. I've hauled equipment before using
chains and its pretty common to cross secure with a single chain in the
front and a single chain in the rear if it gos across more than one
point on the piece of equipment. I had hauling chains and binders with
me also, but there wasn't really a good place to route them and be sure
of getting good tension with the chain binders. The straps slid over
the frame in the small clearance that was available just fine.

I might also buy a new set of straps. Some of these have been around
since I hauled my Hurco mill back from Hemet California in 2010.
Actually I have some new straps, but they are the type with flat plate
hooks intended for securing loads straight across. They would not have
held properly for this type of load. I had lots of stuff with me for
the haul.

On my first haul (another similar size truck) I had a wheel hub get hot
enough to be painful to the touch on the run out running empty. I reset
the castle nut tension and pumped some more grease into the easy grease
zirc. It was fine, but I put my hand on it every time I got out of the
truck just to be sure.

This was my second haul on these axles.

I've used this trailer on the old axles to haul my tractor and a few
other things before.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>wrote:
>
>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>
>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>> Snag
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>
>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>
>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>> NASA study.
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>>Well, I didn't actually say that.
>
>True, not those words, but this:
>
>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>
>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>
>This would have terrified me for sure.
>
>
>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>runaway pullouts.
>>
>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>into place (which surprised me).
>>
>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>find.
>>
>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>over the years.
>>
>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>be useful.
>
>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>Nuts are insignificant.
>
>
>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>
>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>
>Joe
For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
washers!!. A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.

Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
particularly with medium lock-tite.

If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>> Snag
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>
>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>
>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>> NASA study.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>>Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>
>>True, not those words, but this:
>>
>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>
>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>
>>This would have terrified me for sure.
>>
>>
>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>runaway pullouts.
>>>
>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>into place (which surprised me).
>>>
>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>find.
>>>
>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>over the years.
>>>
>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>be useful.
>>
>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>Nuts are insignificant.
>>
>>
>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>
>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>
>>Joe
> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>washers!!.

Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.

> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>installed with medium lock-tite.

Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?

WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>

>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>than NyLok

Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.

> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>particularly with medium lock-tite.

Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?

>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)

Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>

I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>

It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.

But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.

War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.

<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>

So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.

Joe Gwinn

On 4/14/2024 10:08 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>> Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>
>>> True, not those words, but this:
>>>
>>> "Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>> mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>
>>> Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>> maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>> destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>> rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>
>>> This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>> for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>> reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>> runaway pullouts.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>> regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>> into place (which surprised me).
>>>>
>>>> These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>> find.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>> Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>> over the years.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>> be useful.
>>>
>>> I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>> Nuts are insignificant.
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>
>>> And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>> did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>> Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>> shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>> distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>
>>> Joe
>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>> washers!!.
>
> Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>
>
>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>> cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>> installed with medium lock-tite.
>
> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>
> WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
> clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>
>
>> Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>> than NyLok
>
> Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>
>
>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>> particularly with medium lock-tite.
>
> Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
> loctite?
>
>
>> If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>> requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>> stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>
>
> Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>
> I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>
> It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
> cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>
> But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
> better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
>
> War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
> attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
> someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
> use beefy threaded quick links.
>
> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>
> So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>
>
> Joe Gwinn

Goose neck and straight pull trailers are required (DOT) to have safety
chains. This one has 3/8 chains and screw couplers. The chains are kind
of a pain and in the way in the bed of a truck on a goose neck. They
can even knock loose the electrical plug from the receptacle if one is
not careful. Interestingly a fifth wheel does not require safety
chains. More interestingly a clear definition of fifth wheel varies or
is unclear depending on where it is looked up. Even in legislative
definitions. Many are written in a manner that could include goose neck
hitches. Where it becomes even less clear as to what is and is not a
"fifth wheel" is when looking up the legality of towing RV doubles from
state to state.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>
>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?

Found this tidbit:

An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>
>Found this tidbit:
>
>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.

Found it: Page 74 of the following:
..<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
..<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>

No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
squished into contact with the bolt thread.

I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.

..<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>

Joe Gwinn

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uvh4sj$3oik1$1@dont-email.me...
>...
Can you get more of the nuts that failed, to test or as evidence?