On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>
>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>
>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>

That is an interesting design.

IMO the biggest problem these items are trying to solve is for any
worker keeping a nut from coming loose.

Though I worked with guys who would keep that success rate very low😬

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>>Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>
>>>True, not those words, but this:
>>>
>>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>
>>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>
>>>This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>>runaway pullouts.
>>>>
>>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>>into place (which surprised me).
>>>>
>>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>>find.
>>>>
>>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>>over the years.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>>be useful.
>>>
>>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>Nuts are insignificant.
>>>
>>>
>>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>
>>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>
>>>Joe
>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>washers!!.
>
>Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>
>
>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>installed with medium lock-tite.
>
>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>
>WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>
>
>>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>than NyLok
>
>Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>
>
>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
>
>Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>loctite?
>
Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
burn the sucker off!!!
>
>>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>
>
>Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>
>I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>
>It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>
>But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>better. But this is the right conversation to be having.

Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
to!!!
>
>War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
>someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>use beefy threaded quick links.
>
><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>
>So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>
>
>Joe Gwinn
I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
crossed under the hitch but the toung jack took the abuse. It had a
rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
CERTAIN I latched it - - - -

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:48:04 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 4/14/2024 10:08 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>>
>>>> True, not those words, but this:
>>>>
>>>> "Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>> mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>>
>>>> Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>> maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>> destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>> rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>>
>>>> This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>>> for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>>> reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>>> runaway pullouts.
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>>> regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>>> into place (which surprised me).
>>>>>
>>>>> These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>>> find.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>>> Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>>> over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>>> be useful.
>>>>
>>>> I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>> Nuts are insignificant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>>
>>>> And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>> did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>>> Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>> shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>>> distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>> washers!!.
>>
>> Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>>
>>
>>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>> cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>> installed with medium lock-tite.
>>
>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>
>> WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>> clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
>> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>>
>>
>>> Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>> than NyLok
>>
>> Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>>
>>
>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>> particularly with medium lock-tite.
>>
>> Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>> loctite?
>>
>>
>>> If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>> requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>> stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>>
>>
>> Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>>
>> I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>>
>> It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>> cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>>
>> But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>> better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
>>
>> War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>> attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
>> someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>> use beefy threaded quick links.
>>
>> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>>
>> So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>>
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
>Goose neck and straight pull trailers are required (DOT) to have safety
>chains. This one has 3/8 chains and screw couplers. The chains are kind
>of a pain and in the way in the bed of a truck on a goose neck. They
>can even knock loose the electrical plug from the receptacle if one is
>not careful. Interestingly a fifth wheel does not require safety
>chains. More interestingly a clear definition of fifth wheel varies or
>is unclear depending on where it is looked up. Even in legislative
>definitions. Many are written in a manner that could include goose neck
>hitches. Where it becomes even less clear as to what is and is not a
>"fifth wheel" is when looking up the legality of towing RV doubles from
>state to state.
>
>
>--
>Bob La Londe
>CNC Molds N Stuff
Isn't the difference the attatchment? Gooseneck uses a ball. (or
possibly a pintle) while a "fifth wheel" uses a pin and latch on a
"horseshoe plate"

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>
>Found this tidbit:
>
>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
Different animal.
The LoxNut has a captive free spinning serrated lock washer/flange
similar to a NordLock washer, with the bottom of the nut serrated
similar to the top half of a NordLock.
The Disc-Lock lockwasher has ramps instead of the serrations of a
NordLock. Similar action but on a different scale The Norf-Lock
actually only claims 120% removal torque, while the disc-lock claims
150%. The Whiz-Lock claims 130%

The Stover works good on Grade 8 bolts although it is designed for
High Strength L9 fasteners.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>
>>Found this tidbit:
>>
>>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>
>Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>
>No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>
>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>
>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>
>Joe Gwinn
Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 17:03:58 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400
>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>
>>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>
>That is an interesting design.
>
>IMO the biggest problem these items are trying to solve is for any
>worker keeping a nut from coming loose.
>
>Though I worked with guys who would keep that success rate very low?

I worked with one guy who's method was tighten until it breaks and
back it off 1/8th of a turn. He could snap a 1 1/2 inch grade 8 bolt.
(with a torque multiplier and johnson bar, but still!!!) The torque
spec was something like 3600 ft lb so he had to be putting over 4000
ft lb to them - - - - -

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>
>>>Found this tidbit:
>>>
>>>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>
>>Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>
>>No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>
>>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>
>>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>your ankles- head first!!!

Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?

> Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
>out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.

And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>>
>>>>True, not those words, but this:
>>>>
>>>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>>
>>>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>>
>>>>This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>>>runaway pullouts.
>>>>>
>>>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>>>into place (which surprised me).
>>>>>
>>>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>>>find.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>>>over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>>>be useful.
>>>>
>>>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>>Nuts are insignificant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>>
>>>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>>washers!!.
>>
>>Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>>
>>
>>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>>installed with medium lock-tite.
>>
>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>
>>WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>>clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>>
>>
>>>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>>than NyLok
>>
>>Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>>
>>
>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
>>
>>Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>>loctite?
>>
>Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
>I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
>burn the sucker off!!!
>>
>>>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>>
>>
>>Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>>
>>I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>>
>>It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>>cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>>
>>But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>>better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
>
> Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
>Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
>arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
>to!!!
>>
>>War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>>attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
>>someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>>use beefy threaded quick links.
>>
>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>>
>>So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>>
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
> I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
>crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a
>rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
>shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
>on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
>know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
>CERTAIN I latched it - - - -

On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>
>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>
>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>
>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>
>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>> your ankles- head first!!!
> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>
>> Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
>> out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
> And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
>
> Joe Gwinn

On 4/14/2024 8:45 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:48:04 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/14/2024 10:08 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>>>
>>>>> True, not those words, but this:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>>> mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>>> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>>> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>>>
>>>>> Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>>> maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>>> destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>>> rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>>>> for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>>>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>>>> reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>>>> runaway pullouts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>>>> regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>>>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>>>> into place (which surprised me).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>>>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>>>> find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>>>> Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>>>> over the years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>>>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>>>> be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>>> Nuts are insignificant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>>> did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>>> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>>>> Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>>> shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>>>> distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>>> washers!!.
>>>
>>> Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>>>
>>>
>>>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>>> cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>>> installed with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>
>>> WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>>> clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
>>> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>>> than NyLok
>>>
>>> Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>>> particularly with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>> Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>>> loctite?
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>>> requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>>> stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>>>
>>>
>>> Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>>>
>>> I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>>>
>>> It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>>> cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>>>
>>> But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>>> better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
>>>
>>> War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>>> attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
>>> someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>>> use beefy threaded quick links.
>>>
>>> <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>>>
>>> So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>> Goose neck and straight pull trailers are required (DOT) to have safety
>> chains. This one has 3/8 chains and screw couplers. The chains are kind
>> of a pain and in the way in the bed of a truck on a goose neck. They
>> can even knock loose the electrical plug from the receptacle if one is
>> not careful. Interestingly a fifth wheel does not require safety
>> chains. More interestingly a clear definition of fifth wheel varies or
>> is unclear depending on where it is looked up. Even in legislative
>> definitions. Many are written in a manner that could include goose neck
>> hitches. Where it becomes even less clear as to what is and is not a
>> "fifth wheel" is when looking up the legality of towing RV doubles from
>> state to state.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bob La Londe
>> CNC Molds N Stuff

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>
>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>
>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>
>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>
>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>
>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.

I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.

Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.

I ran into yet another locknut contender:

Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
terribly expensive.

..<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>

The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.

..<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:26:44 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>
>>>>Found this tidbit:
>>>>
>>>>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>
>>>Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>
>>>No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>
>>>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>
>>>Joe Gwinn
>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>your ankles- head first!!!
>
>Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>
>
>> Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
>>out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
>
>And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
>
>Joe Gwinn
They have a bit of give to them - which might help - but generally
you don't count on a thread insert to be a lock-nut - although they
are advertized and sold as .

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:39:34 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
>>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
>>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I didn't actually say that.
>>>>>
>>>>>True, not those words, but this:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>>>
>>>>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
>>>>>
>>>>>This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off
>>>>>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
>>>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
>>>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
>>>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
>>>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
>>>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
>>>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
>>>>>>runaway pullouts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
>>>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
>>>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
>>>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
>>>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
>>>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
>>>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
>>>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
>>>>>>into place (which surprised me).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
>>>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
>>>>>>find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
>>>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
>>>>>>over the years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
>>>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
>>>>>>be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>>>Nuts are insignificant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>>>
>>>>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
>>>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
>>>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe
>>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>>>washers!!.
>>>
>>>Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>>>
>>>
>>>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>>>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>>>installed with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>
>>>WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>>>clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
>>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>>>than NyLok
>>>
>>>Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>>Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>>>loctite?
>>>
>>Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
>>I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
>>burn the sucker off!!!
>>>
>>>>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>>>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>>>
>>>
>>>Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>>>
>>>I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
>>>
>>>It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>>>cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
>>>
>>>But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>>>better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
>>
>> Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
>>Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
>>arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
>>to!!!
>>>
>>>War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>>>attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
>>>someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>>>use beefy threaded quick links.
>>>
>>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>>>
>>>So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
>>>
>>>
>>>Joe Gwinn
>>
>> I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
>>crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a
>>rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
>>shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
>>on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
>>know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
>>CERTAIN I latched it - - - -
>
>Heart stopping to be sure.
>
>I'm unclear as to what exactly came loose and then happened.
>
>Joe Gwinn
The hitch unlatched from the ball. For that to happen the dafety had
to release - and it was SUPPOSED to be secured with a latch-pin. When
it jumped off the ball it was suspended on the crossed safety chains
but the toung jack wheel, which was pointing slightly to the right,
touched the ground and tried to stear the trailer to the curb and the
pavement acted like a grinder and "machined" the tire into a cone.
After that I ALWAYS double check the hitch and make sure everything
is secured before starting out - and at every stop.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>>
>>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>
>>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>
>I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
>
>Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
>
>
>I ran into yet another locknut contender:
>
>Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
>terribly expensive.
>
>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
>
>The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
>
>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
>
>Joe Gwinn
Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:12:01 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:39:34 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
[snip]
>>> [CS]
>>> I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
>>>crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a
>>>rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
>>>shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
>>>on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
>>>know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
>>>CERTAIN I latched it - - - -
>>
>>Heart stopping to be sure.
>>
>>I'm unclear as to what exactly came loose and then happened.
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
> The hitch unlatched from the ball. For that to happen the safety had
>to release - and it was SUPPOSED to be secured with a latch-pin. When
>it jumped off the ball it was suspended on the crossed safety chains
>but the tounge jack wheel, which was pointing slightly to the right,
>touched the ground and tried to steer the trailer to the curb and the
>pavement acted like a grinder and "machined" the tire into a cone.
> After that I ALWAYS double check the hitch and make sure everything
>is secured before starting out - and at every stop.

Ahh. That makes sense. This story is one of the standard arguments
for the pintle hitch over any ball hitch.

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>>>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>>
>>>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>>
>>I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
>>
>>Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
>>
>>
>>I ran into yet another locknut contender:
>>
>>Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
>>terribly expensive.
>>
>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
>>
>>The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
>>
>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>

By the way, McMaster carries these.
..<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>

>>Joe Gwinn
> Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok

Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
hits.

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:06:36 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:26:44 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>
>>>>>Found this tidbit:
>>>>>
>>>>>An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>
>>>>Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>
>>>>No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>
>>>>I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>
>>>>.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>
>>>>Joe Gwinn
>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>your ankles- head first!!!
>>
>>Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>
>>
>>> Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
>>>out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
>>
>>And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
> They have a bit of give to them - which might help - but generally
>you don't count on a thread insert to be a lock-nut - although they
>are advertized and sold as such.

In their defense, they prove Key-Lock's vibration resistance with a
Junker test, which is the gold standard. And NASA will accept no
less.

Joe Gwinn

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:38:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>>>>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>>>
>>>>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>>>
>>>I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
>>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
>>>
>>>Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
>>>
>>>
>>>I ran into yet another locknut contender:
>>>
>>>Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
>>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
>>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
>>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
>>>terribly expensive.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
>>>
>>>The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
>
>By the way, McMaster carries these.
>.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>
>
>
>>>Joe Gwinn
>> Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok
>
>Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
>help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
>hits.

I think I found them. The company is "Fuji Seimitsu Manufacturing Co
Ltd ".

..<https://www.fun.co.jp/en/u-town/company/history/>

The locknut is basically the same as the Security Locknut steel
insert. There is a US patent that I have not yet found, so there must
be some difference.

Joe Gwinn

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 12:19:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:38:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>>>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>>>>>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>>>>
>>>>>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>>>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>>>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>>>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>>>>
>>>>I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
>>>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
>>>>
>>>>Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I ran into yet another locknut contender:
>>>>
>>>>Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
>>>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
>>>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
>>>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
>>>>terribly expensive.
>>>>
>>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
>>>>
>>>>The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
>>>>
>>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
>>
>>By the way, McMaster carries these.
>>.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>
>>
>>
>>>>Joe Gwinn
>>> Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok
>>
>>Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
>>help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
>>hits.
>
>I think I found them. The company is "Fuji Seimitsu Manufacturing Co
>Ltd ".
>
>.<https://www.fun.co.jp/en/u-town/company/history/>
>
>The locknut is basically the same as the Security Locknut steel
>insert. There is a US patent that I have not yet found, so there must
>be some difference.
>

Not so fast. I did find an earlier Chinese patent from FujiLok that
had a diagram that resembled the Security Locknut, but that is not
what's currently offered:

..<https://www.fun.co.jp/en/u-town/products/u-nut/>

Somewhere in the middle of the sales talk there is a section that
shows how it's built and works. But no Junker test data.

Joe Gwinn

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:38:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
>>>>>>>> Found this tidbit:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
>>>>>>>> the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
>>>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
>>>>>>> .<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
>>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>> Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
>>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
>>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
>>>>>> re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
>>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
>>>>> Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
>>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
>>>>
>>>>I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in
>>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
>>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
>>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
>>>
>>>I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
>>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
>>>
>>>Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
>>>
>>>
>>>I ran into yet another locknut contender:
>>>
>>>Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
>>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full
>>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against
>>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not
>>>terribly expensive.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
>>>
>>>The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
>
>By the way, McMaster carries these.
>.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>
>
>
>>>Joe Gwinn
>> Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok
>
>Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
>help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
>hits.
>
>Joe Gwinn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=fdxipd-UXiE
Just google what is a fuji lock nut or how does a fuji lock nut work
https://fujiseimitsu.co.id/products/u-nut/detail.php